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New Day

More Countries, Airlines Ground Boeing's Best-Selling Jet; Venezuela Opposition Leader Juan Guaido Calls for More Protests; Pelosi: Impeaching President Trump is 'Just Not Worth It'. Aired 6- 6:30a ET

Aired March 12, 2019 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[06:00:00] (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to err on the side of safety. Would I put my whole family on the airplane? I don't think so.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wouldn't stay home until the federal government says there's something unsafe. The flying public should have confidence.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's really heartbreaking to know that he won't be able to fulfill the legacy that he had set up for himself.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: It divides the country. I didn't believe in it then. I don't believe in it now.

REP. BRAD SHERMAN (D), CALIFORNIA: You don't impeach Trump for him. You impeach Trump for the Constitution.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She understands the ramifications, says that it's just not worth it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. This is NEW DAY. It is Tuesday, March 12, 6 a.m. here in New York.

And we do have new information this morning. A growing number of airlines are grounding Boeing 737 Max 8 after the deadly crash that killed all 157 people on board.

At this point, the FAA is not telling U.S. carriers not to fly it. But they will, quote, "continuously assess" its safety as investigators try to figure out what caused the new plane to fall from the sky minutes after takeoff.

It is unclear if there is a link between this crash and the Lion Air crash in Indonesia just a few months ago.

We're also learning more about the victims. They include two brothers from California and 21 United Nations staffers who were on their way to an environmental conference.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Breaking overnight, the State Department announced it is pulling out all diplomatic staff from Venezuela. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said it is due to the deteriorating situation there. Mass power outages have plagued that country for days.

Plus, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi laying down a marker, and it's not one that all Democrats like. She announced that she is against impeaching President Trump. She says that he is just, quote, "not worth it."

We're going to begin, though, with CNN's David McKenzie. He is live in Ethiopia at the site of the plane crash. David, it's a remarkable vision we've had behind you for the last few days. Tell us what you're seeing this morning.

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, if you can hear me well, I'm here on this hillside where now, they have two teams behind me that you can see combing through the debris. The debris field behind that massive crater where this brand-new plane crashed down.

I spoke to investigators yesterday who said they believe this plane came in at a vertical trajectory, slamming into the mountain, going deep into the ground, as it were.

What really strikes me is just how small the debris is. This is a big commercial aircraft, and there are just a few different piles of -- (AUDIO GAP) and the other part of the engine. But really, this plane was obliterated.

(AUDIO GAP) here, gingerly picking through the wreckage, trying to find any evidence so that they can let their loved one know, give them details, just tragic moments after this crash happened.

And now, more carriers and more countries are grounding these Boeing 737 Max, including China, Singapore, Indonesia, Australia, Mexico, Ethiopia, Caymans, Angola. That's just a possible list, and that shows the pressure building on these airlines to really guarantee the safety of their passengers. Because just six months ago there was that other Lion Air crash, killing everyone on board.

Now, Boeing says it stands by its aircraft, that safety is paramount. The FAA, as you mentioned, they are also saying they are happy with this aircraft but are asking for some technical changes relating to that Lion Air crash. The black box recorder, the fiber (ph) recorder, audio recorder. They are in possession of Ethiopian Airlines in the -- just near the airport. Those will be analyzed soon, and hopefully, we'll get answers on why this all happened -- John.

BERMAN: All right. David McKenzie before us, on the ground there. The audio is tough, but it is very worth having you there and picking up what you can from the scene. Thank you, David.

I want to bring is Mary Schiavo, CNN transportation analyst and former inspector general for the U.S. Transportation Department. She is an attorney, who represents families of airline crash victims and does have current litigation pending against Boeing.

Mary, the story this morning: country after country -- China, Singapore, Australia, Latin American countries, are now grounding the 737 Max 8 but not the United States. The FAA has not and, by all accounts, will not. So what are they basing that decision off of, when all these other countries think it's important to do so?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN TRANSPORTATION ANALYST: Well, the FAA defers to Boeing, not because they're doing anything nefarious but because the FAA defers to Boeing's expertise.

This is not the only situation where they've done it. When I was inspector general, we were tasked by Congress to review the FAA's oversight of a certification of the Boeing triple-7. And there we found that the FAA deferred to Boeing's own designated examiners 95 percent of the time. We dubbed that the self-certified claim.

And the FAA does not have the kind of expertise that Boeing and other major manufacturers have, so they really take them at their word. And most likely, here once again, Boeing have said that they have done what's necessary with the last air witness directive. And the timing here is very interesting, because the FAA puts out this notice that they're going to require Boeing to act by April, the day after another planeload of people have died. It looks like they're responding to another mass casualty.

BERMAN: Right. So Boeing needs to change its software by the end of April. Isn't that, in and itself, a suggestion that they think something is wrong or needs to be fixed?

SCHIAVO: It certainly is to me. And out of an abundance of caution, I think, several nations have used that terminology. That is so common sense. I mean, we have had two brand-new planes go in. The statistics of that happening are just astronomical.

[06:05:06] I mean, the closest parallel is a plane decades ago called The Comet, new model and it had three crash; and of course, that was the end of that model.

But here, you know, the nations who say, "We want to wait and see," they're not going to have to wait long. A week for safety precautions until they see what's on the black boxes of this plane just makes sense. Saying that it's not a safety issue when they haven't even seen the black box data is incomprehensible for the FAA to say. It's nonsense.

BERMAN: So the situation that consumers are left with this morning is they're getting mixed signals when countries around the world are grounding this plane, but the FAA and U.S. domestic carriers -- it's America and Southwest -- are still flying these planes.

What can consumers do? They can't choose, necessarily, if they've already bought ticket what planes they're flying on.

SCHIAVO: That's exactly right. Consumers are going to have to vote with their feet and have to take care of themselves, because the FAA doesn't require airlines to allow you to have a refund or to re-book if you don't like the equipment.

The only thing that federal regulations say is, if you have booked passage on a jet -- on jet service, then that's what the airline has to give you. So if you've booked on a -- on a, you know, 747. And they pull up a Piper Cub, you can say, "No thanks."

But beyond that, the airline has the option to select what equipment, what planes it uses on the routes, and they don't have to give you a refund.

Personally, until I see what's on the black boxes, I would -- I would eat those change fees, because it's important what's on those black boxes. Otherwise, we wouldn't have them.

So no, unfortunately, consumers, if they've already booked a flight on the 737 Max 8 or 9, both the ones affected by this FAA order yesterday, will have to pay the change fees.

BERMAN: Interestingly that you say personally, though, you would eat those change fees.

SCHIAVO: I would.

BERMAN: Mary Schiavo, thank you so much for talking to us this morning. Appreciate it.

We are learning more about some of the victims of the Ethiopian Airlines plane crash. Melvin and Bennett Riffel and -- they were brothers from Reading, California. The two had been on vacation in Australia before going to Africa.

A family friend says -- another friend says Melvin and his wife, Brittney, were expecting their first child this spring.

CAMEROTA: And Manisha Nukavarapu was a second-year resident physician at East Tennessee State University College of Medicine. She'd been traveling to Kenya to visit relatives. A statement released by her employee describes her as a fine resident, a delightful person and a dedicated physician.

BERMAN: Michael "Mick" Ryan was from Ireland and worked for U.N. World Food Program as an engineer. Ireland's prime minister said Michael had been doing life-changing work in Africa. Michael leaves behind a wife and two children.

CAMEROTA: The plane crash was especially hard for the United Nations. Twenty-one of its employees died as they made their way to a conference.

BERMAN: Yes. Honestly, a huge tragedy. And this plane was known as a shuttle between Addis Ababa and Nairobi in Kenya. U.N. workers went back and forth on this flight all the time. A huge loss for that agency. CAMEROTA: I mean, every single one. When you -- when you find out

about every single life that was lost and all if the ripple effect that it has on their family and their loved ones and then the large amount of people that the United Nations lost.

Also this. Breaking overnight, the United States announcing it will withdraw all remaining personnel from its embassy in Venezuela as the nation's self-declared interim president calls for more protests today. The crisis there deepening as much of Venezuela remains without power.

CNN's Paula Newton is live in Caracas with all of the details. What's the situation there at this hour, Paula?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, in terms of Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, saying that, look, at this point, and as you said, any remaining personnel, U.S. personnel now have been ordered out of the country.

But what caught a lot of people's attention, I'm sure caught yours, as well, is that line from his tweet and in the statement, saying that the presence of U.S. diplomatic staff at the embassy has become what he calls a constraint on U.S. policy.

Now for weeks, really, Alisyn, we've been repeating that President Trump himself and the entire administration has always said that all options are on the table.

Well, what does that mean? This is definitely an escalation. As you say, Alisyn, in the midst of what is still a profound blackout.

What is very clear is that this blackout has, indeed, even unnerved President Maduro. They have now shut down the country for another few days, understanding that even the meager power that they are able to distribute across this country is not enough to actually get people back on their feet.

I want to turn, though, to also opposition leader Juan Guaido. Yesterday, he did something very interesting: went to the national assembly and declared a state of emergency.

Now, although he is, in fact, what he calls himself, the self-declared president of Venezuela, he doesn't have any actual levers of power, and that's a problem. But with this declaration, the difficult but he is able to ask for foreign assistance, he claims, up to and including military intervention. This is an important story to keep our eyes on.

[06:10:08] You know, Elliott Abrams, who's a U.S. representative for the Trump administration on this, has been saying for weeks now people have to be patient and that when we say all options are on the table, we don't mean military intervention yet. But certainly, important to this. As President Maduro continues to claim that the United States is to blame for this blackout. He calls it an electric coup -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Paul Newton, thank you very much for all of that news. Joining us now is senior diplomatic correspondent Michelle Kosinski.

So this is very complicated. There is the acute crisis of the blackout, and then the bigger crisis of what the U.S. is supposed to do about this ongoing program. So diplomatically, where are we, Michelle?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN SENIOR DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT: Right. I mean, the situation just gets worse and worse. Diplomatically, the U.S. has been taking these incremental steps. We're still seeing additional sanctions put on certain companies.

So the U.S. wants to ratchet up the pressure. And then finally, just before midnight, we see this decision to pull everybody out of the U.S. embassy there in Caracas with that line that Paula mentioned that, you know, having staffers there constrains U.S. policy.

What exactly does the State Department mean by that? They're not saying at this point. But it certainly sounds like a threat. Right? At the very least, the U.S. wants to send the message to Maduro that, if the U.S. wants to take some kind of additional action, could that mean military action? The U.S. wants him to think that that could be a possibility, yes. Then they won't have U.S. staffers there to have to worry about their safety, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: And Michelle, are there people behind the scenes talking about military intervention?

KOSINSKI: Of course. Of course, that has been a discussion for a long period of time. And there had been reporting out there, remember, months ago that President Trump had been asking about what he could do militarily in Venezuela.

What we've seen since then, of course, is the situation get worse and worse, to what we're seeing now with these absolutely jaw-dropping pictures coming out.

And of course, the question that we have for the administration is what's next? What happens now? When we heard directly from Secretary of State Pompeo yesterday, who answered a few questions to reporters. He just wanted to express confidence that things were moving in the right direction.

So he wanted to stay away from talking about the possibility of military action. He said that he felt like there were signs that things were moving in the right direction. What he meant was there have been some defections from the military and that sort of thing.

But clearly, it's a terrible situation. And what we know is what they tell us, that all options are on the table. As to what action the U.S. takes next, I mean, that's what we're all watching right now.

CAMEROTA: OK. And then, there's the immediate crisis of the power outage. I mean, you know, our correspondents have shown us it's life and death in some of these hospitals. You know, people can't get -- they need energy. They need energy in their homes, much less the hospitals. People are getting their water from streams. And so how can Maduro be claiming that this is the U.S.'s fault? And what is the -- how can the U.S. help here?

KOSINSKI: It is absolutely stunning to see these pictures with nurses working around the clock, using hand ventilators to keep babies alive, or a child dying in her mother's arms, because she can't get any help at the hospitals that don't have any power.

So what the U.S. can do is keep up the pressure. Remember, there was that move to try to get humanitarian aid into the country. Maduro blocked that. That was one of those pressure points at which everyone looked and said, is this the point that we're going to see military, not just from the U.S. but from other countries in the region, try to push that aid in. I mean, we have not seen that happen yet.

Now, here's another point, where you look at this and say, you know, how much worse is it going to get before there is some kind of incremental action in that direction?

CAMEROTA: Michelle Kosinski, thank you very much for the update -- John.

BERMAN: All right. Big political news. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi had an announcement, and she wanted everyone to know she had an announcement. She does not want to impeach President Trump. She says the president is, quote, "just not worth it."

So why is she making this declaration and why now?

CNN's Joe Johns live at the White House with the very latest -- Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, this is all about the speaker of the House and other top Democrats trying to give a dose of reality to other members of their own party who are crying out for the impeachment of the president.

Their message is, unless there are major new developments, they're going to be better off trying to beat Donald Trump in the race for the White House next November.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PELOSI: They wanted me to impeach President Bush for the Iraq War. I didn't believe it in then. I don't believe in it now.

[06:15:02] JOHNS (voice-over): The nation's most powerful Democrat, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, explaining why she does not currently support impeaching Donald Trump.

PELOSI: It divides the country, unless there's some conclusive evidence that takes us to that place.

JOHNS: Earlier, Pelosi telling "The Washington Post" that Mr. Trump is just not worth the division impeachment would cause, even though she considers him ethically, intellectually and curiosity-wise unfit for office.

Pelosi has signaled her resistance for impeachment for many months.

PELOSI: It's not some place that I think we should go.

JOHNS: Her position in stark contrast to some members of her party, who have urgently called for Democrats to begin impeachment proceedings.

REP. MAXINE WATERS (D), CALIFORNIA: We have everything that it needs to basically impeach him.

REP. RASHIDA TLAIB (D), MICHIGAN: We're going to go in there. We're going to impeach the mother-(EXPLETIVE DELETED).

JOHNS: Among them, Congressman Brad Sherman, who introduced articles of impeachment against the president in January.

SHERMAN: You don't impeach Trump for him. You impeach Trump for the Constitution.

JOHNS: Other Democrats echoing the speaker's message.

REP. MIKE QUIGLEY (D), ILLINOIS: You cannot come off as carrying torches to the castle.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA), CHAIRMAN, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Putting The country through a failed impeachment is not a good idea.

JOHNS: Meanwhile, the White House refusing to tamp down an inflammatory claim made by the president last week after controversial comments from freshman Democratic Congresswoman Ilhan Omar that have been criticized as anti-Semitic.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Democrats have become an anti-Israel party. They've become an anti-Jewish party.

JOHNS: Press secretary Sarah Sanders deflecting.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes or no. Does the president truly believe that Democrats hate Jews?

SARAH SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I am not going to comment on a potentially leaked document. I can tell you what --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- say Democrats hate Jewish people.

SANDERS: That's a question, frankly, I think you should ask Democrats.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANDERS: This was the first White House briefing in 42 days, by the way. Sarah Sanders did decline to talk about several of the controversies engulfing this White House, including about those hush- money payments to women in the run-up to the 2016 election and about that recent published report suggesting the president tried to use the Department of Justice to intervene in the merger of Time Warner, the parent company of CNN.

Back to you.

BERMAN: All right. Joe Johns for us at the White House.

I want to bring in Toluse Olorunnipa, the White House reporter for the "Washington Post."

And Toluse, I am fascinated that Nancy Pelosi sat down with your newspaper, "The Washington Post," and went out of the way, if you read the interview, she was saying, "Look, this is news. What I'm about to tell you is news. I don't want to impeach President Trump."

Why do you think she felt it was so important to get that message out?

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Nancy Pelosi is leading a very diverse Democratic caucus, where she has progressive members that are all ready to impeach the president, but she has a number of moderate members who won in Trump districts. And she wants to protect them. They did not win by saying that they were going to impeach the president. A lot of their voters are Trump voters, and they want those moderate members to go in and fix problems.

And they -- Nancy Pelosi knows that impeachment can be divisive. So she's sort of getting out in front of it and taking the bullets from her progressive base, knowing that she's going to get some pushback but trying to defend her more moderate members who don't want to have to answer these questions about impeachment. They can put it to Nancy Pelosi and say, "Listen, our speaker says that we are not going to go for impeachment unless we get a bombshell about the president."

And I think she knows that impeachment would not pass the Senate unless there's more information that comes out. So it would be a partisan exercise, which would be great for the progressive base; but for the moderates who have to run again in 2020, that might be something that makes it difficult for them to win their reelections.

BERMAN: Toluse, I feel like we are in the Mueller report season now, in that everything that takes place in Washington is this chess game to prepare for it.

So is it wrong to assume that perhaps this is some kind of play by Nancy Pelosi to say, "Hey, look, we may not get much from the Mueller report, to diminish, to lower expectations here about what they might say? Because if there's a bombshell in there, why would you be saying we shouldn't impeach the president?

OLORUNNIPA: Yes. I think she wants to prepare for all eventualities. There's the very likely -- very much a likelihood that the Mueller report could be politically damaging for the president but reach the level that it causes Republicans, who had an iron grip on to leave him and decide to impeach him. That would be a pretty high bar for Mueller and his report to cross.

I think Speaker Pelosi is not saying that Democrats should not investigate the president. In fact, they are moving very aggressively in investigating all matters of the president's life. And I think she is trying to walk that fine line and allowing the House to be a sense of -- a source of oversight for the president but not rushing to impeachment.

So she is going to be able to placate some of her progressive base by saying, "Listen, we're going to go after the president's tax returns and a lot of documents from the White House, but we're not going to rush into impeachment. You get a little bit, but you don't get the whole loaf from Nancy Pelosi, because she has to protect her moderate members who do not want to be known as just the anti-Trump resistance within the Democratic Party. They have to run for reelection with a lot of moderate voters.

[06:20:05] BERMAN: All right. Toluse Olorunnipa, thank you very much for being with us this morning. Really appreciate it.

CAMEROTA: All right. So President Trump is trying to shift the anti- Semitic heat that he has been under since Charlottesville off of him and onto Democrats. But Sarah Sanders has a hard time answering questions about his new claims. It's the latest example of verbal gymnastics. We're feeling limber this morning. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: The White House refusing to explain President Trump's newly-concocted claims that Democrats are anti-Jewish.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does he really think Democrats hate Jewish people, as he said on the South Lawn?

SANDERS: I think they had a lot of opportunities over the last few weeks to condemn some abhorrent comments. I'm trying to answer. If you'd stop talking, I'll finish my statement.

That's a question, frankly, I think you should ask Democrats what their position is, since they're unwilling to call this what it is and call it out by name and take actual action against members who have done things like this, like the Republicans have done when they had the same opportunity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: I'm not sure what she's talking about. Democrats have called it for -- they have called it out. That's what we've been talking about for the past few weeks. But anyway, on Friday, President Trump tried to turn the anti-Semitic tide from himself to Democrats.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[06:25:00] TRUMP: The Democrats have become an anti-Israel party. They've become an anti-Jewish party.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CAMEROTA: OK. Let's suggest this with CNN commentators Bakari Sellers and Scott Jennings. Great to have both of you.

So Bakari, are we all now lulled into forgetting Charlottesville and thinking that, "Oh, it's the Democrats. Why didn't we realize this? It's the Democrats who must be anti-Semitic, not President Trump," who we heard just -- I mean, is it worth reminding people what he said around Charlottesville? Is that --

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it is. I think when you look at, I think that the Republican do not have high ground on this issue, when you look at whether it's President Donald Trump, and good people on both sides comments. Whether or not you look at Leader McCarthy and some of the mailings he sent out or Steve King, who was born racist and still is racist today. OK?

And so when you look at things you like, you don't have that -- that moral clarity, that high ground. However, I will say that Democrats have to do a better job of having some moral clarity in this moment where the country needs that.

CAMEROTA: And what would that look like?

SELLERS: Democrats, for example, I was disappointed that we voted for a resolution that included absolutely everything in it. I think that, if you're going to call out anti-Semitism, you should call out anti- Semitism for what it is. Make a vote on that. Be principled in that and move forward. But instead we added everything.

I made the joke that we not only added anti-Semitism, racism, bigotry, xenophobia, but we also added that we hated the Patriots, the Boston Celtics. I mean, it was everything like --

CAMEROTA: Slow down.

BERMAN: It's unanimous there.

SELLERS: We added everything in there. And I just think that we should have been focused, pinpoint like a laser, on showing that anti- Semitism has no place in this discourse. Not the anti-whataboutism.

BERMAN: Well, look, what this is is the Trump Jiu Jitsu, which he's become so good at, which is turning his opponents' strengths into weaknesses and his weaknesses into strengths here. You know, "I'm not a puppet. You're a puppet." "I didn't collude with Russia. Hillary Clinton colluded with Russia." "I'm not an anti-Semite. You're an anti-Semite."

And Scott Jennings -- and again, you did not defend the president's statements in Charlottesville. I'm not suggesting that even for the slightest moment here.

But in an op-ed in "The L.A. Times," I think your debut as an "L.A. Times" columnist this weekend -- congratulations --

SELLERS: Congratulations. BERMAN: -- to you and "The L.A. Times" on this. You sort of point out what you think the president is doing here and why Republican voters like it. He's fighting. He's fighting the fight. That's what Republican voters want, even as if in this case, his own record on it might not be not just squeaky clean but clearly quite checkered.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. That's exactly right. I mean, Republican voters feel like that frequently, Democrats get away with things that Republicans don't get away with.

By the way, I agree with virtually everything Bakari Sellers just said, which I know is a fist for NEW DAY here, but I think -- I think he's exactly right.

And look, we have people in Washington, D.C., today in both parties who have gotten these things wrong over the last couple of years. We've had a few people who have gotten them right.

And when people get them wrong, you do have to be focused on holding them accountable. But Republicans, there is a sentiment that Democrats get away with things.

And when Omar goes out and does the things that she did; and they try to hold her accountable, and the resolution gets watered down. Or then the next day you see -- I don't know -- Nancy Pelosi posing on the cover of "Rolling Stone" with her, you realize that, if you're a Republican, you had this sentiment that yes, there's a double standard here. So that sentiment exists.

And then so you see Trump come along, and he says, "Look at this and makes a big deal out of it." That's precisely the attitude that Republicans want him to exhibit.

Doesn't make him perfect on these issues. He is far from perfect on these issues, but he is definitely reflecting the attitude that Republicans have felt for many years that Democrats get away with these things and Republicans don't.

CAMEROTA: I think that is human nature, and I think that that makes perfect sense. But I really liked your -- I think it's really illuminating, your editorial about why Republicans feel so strongly about President Trump and support him so much. And I recommend that everybody read it.

One Republican who is speaking against the policies of President Trump, but privately so, is former Vice President Dick Cheney. He was at this meeting with Vice President Mike Pence, and it has been reported that they had a long -- a prolonged back and forth about the policies. Here's some of what "The Washington Post" is reporting.

Cheney worried aloud to Pence that, quote, "'We're getting into a situation where our friends and allies around the world that we depend upon are going to lack confidence in us' and then offered a blunt criticism of the current administration's response to foreign policy challenges saying 'I worry that the bottom line of that kind of approach is we have an administration that looks a lot more like Barack Obama than Ronald Reagan," Cheney said. So he doesn't like the position on foreign policy, the isolationism and the , you know, angering our allies. That's interesting to hear.

BAKARI: Well --

SELLERS: Yes -- Sorry, Bakari, go ahead.

BERMAN: Well, they agree so much now it almost doesn't matter who talks first.

SELLERS: I just -- I really cannot get the images of Dick Cheney in "Vice" out of my head right now, every time I heard his name called up.

But that's true. And that kind of -- this all ties in together when you have a White House or president or vice president that lacks any moral clarity, that lacks any honesty. I think that that's pervasive even throughout our foreign policy.

[06:30:00]