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Investigators Looking into Ethiopian Airlines Plane Crash; Nancy Pelosi Says House Will Not Impeach President Trump; Beto O'Rourke May Run for President in 2020; Rep. John Yarmuth (D) Kentucky is Interviewed. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired March 12, 2019 - 8:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you. I'm sorry, we're out of time, Mansoor Shams. But we will have you back. Thank you for your service. Thank you for your service to dialogue.

MANSOOR SHAMS, U.S. MARINE CORPS VETERAN: Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

CAMEROTA: Boeing is struggling to contain the fallout after two deadly plane crashes involving their jets. The latest on all the safety concerns, next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to err on the side of safety. Would I put my whole family on the airplane? I don't think so.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wouldn't stay home until the federal government says there is something unsafe the public should have confidence in it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's really heartbreaking to know that he won't be able to fulfill the legacy that he had set up for himself.

REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D) HOUSE SPEAKER: It divides the country. I didn't believe it now and I don't believe in it now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't impeach Trump for him. You impeach him for the Constitution.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She understands the ramifications and said, look, he's just not worth it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota on John Berman.

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to NEW DAY. It is Tuesday, March 12th, 8:00 now in the east. And up first, a growing number of countries and airlines are grounding Boeing 737 MAX 8 after two deadly crashes involving their best-selling jet. Despite safety concerns the FAA is telling U.S. airlines that they can still fly this model as some union leaders and pilots and flight attendants say they are worried. So listen now to retired American Airlines pilot Les Abend and CNN's Richard Quest on NEW DAY moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Would you feel comfortable flying it today?

LES ABEND, RETIRED AMERICAN AIRLINES PILOT: No, I would not. I have to be honest with you. I would not feel comfortable with it.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: The FAA's announcement yesterday looks spectacularly out of touch. The FAA is basically saying we do not have any technical reason to ground these planes. And the FAA is seemingly exceptionally deaf in this today, or it appeared to be, to what the public are saying. The worries about the plane, the worries about whether it's safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Really notable comments from Richard Quest and Les Abend there. The FAA insists it will, quote, continuously assess the MAX 8 safety performance as investigators try to find out what caused this week's crash in Ethiopia minutes after takeoff. Investigators are analyzing the plane's black boxes to see if there is a link between that crash and the Lion Air crash in October. CNN's David McKenzie is live in Ethiopia at the site of this disaster. David, give us the latest.

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: John, Alisyn, good morning. There is a small group of forensic investigators behind me dressed in white. They are waiting to access the scene to carefully go through to find any evidence of what happened and why this brand new plane crashed into the hillside behind me.

Other investigators told me that they believe the plane could have come in very vertically. Because of the deep nature of that crater and the relatively small area of the debris field -- speaking about that debris field, John, the fuselage is just stripped, shredded into tiny parts. We have witnessed these kinds of crashes, unfortunately, on a relatively regular basis. There is no large part of this plane left, which means that this brand new plane soon after takeoff came careening down here with no survivors.

And now more airlines and countries are grounding this brand new 737-8 series. Just look at this -- China, Singapore, Indonesia, Australia, Ethiopia, at least one South African airlines, and that's just an abridged version of that list, saying they are not comfortable with their passengers getting on this plane.

As you mentioned, the FAA at least at this stage standing by Boeing and American-based carriers as well. Ethiopian Airlines is in possession of the black boxes, the flight and data recorders, they will be investigating this soon. The FAA has been on the ground, they say, to get those out of this area. And those answers might be critical in trying to figure out whether there is any connection between what happened in Ethiopia and some five months ago with that Indonesian line airplane. And that is I think a critical thing we need to find out to put the mind at rest of millions of passengers across the world. John, Alisyn?

BERMAN: It's critical for the families of the 157 people lost in the crash that took right place behind you. It is critical for everyone flying around the world the next few days. David McKenzie, thanks for being with us.

And 157 people died in the plane crash, including 21 United Nations staffers. Maria Pilar Buzzetti worked for the U.N. World Food Program and was from Rome. She was just 30 years old.

CAMEROTA: University of Plymouth graduate Sarah Auffret was on her way to a U.N. conference in Nairobi to talk about how to tackle plastic pollution in the oceans. In a statement her employees said we have lost true friend and a beloved colleague.

[08:05:00] Kosha Vaidya along with her husband Prerit Dixit, and their teenage daughters Ashka and Anushka were on their way to Nairobi where Kosha was born, and her brother said she wanted to show her daughters where she had come from. They planned to go on a safari.

BERMAN: And again, we should get some data from those black boxes over the next few days. In the meantime, the calls for the FAA and domestic U.S. carriers to perhaps ground these 737 MAX 8s, those will rise and continue.

CAMEROTA: Yes, we'll keep people posted throughout the show.

BERMAN: Some political news, I want to do a dramatic reading from an interview that Nancy Pelosi gave to "The Washington Post." And this was the part that caught my attention. She said, this is news. I'm going to give you some news right now because I haven't said this to any press person before. As a reporter I will tell you --

CAMEROTA: That gets your attention?

BERMAN: Yes. When someone tells I'm going to tell you something I haven't told you before, it's interesting. What did she have to say? She said, I'm against impeachment right now. She told "The Washington Post," "Impeachment is so divisive to the country that unless there is something so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan I don't think we should go down that path because it divides the country." Then she added this zinger, "And he's just not worth it."

Want to bring in Frank Bruni, "New York Times" op-ed columnist, CNN contributor, also Abby Phillip, CNN White House correspondent, Alex Burns, national political correspondent for "The New York Times" and a CNN political analyst joins us as well. Frank, Abby, Alex, all esteemed reporters. Frank, I'll start with you. When someone says I'm about to tell you something that's news I have never told anyone before, they really want you to pay attention. This was really important for Nancy Pelosi to get out. Why?

FRANK BRUNI, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, no one is saying and she can never say I didn't mean it the way I said it. She thought about this. But I think she accomplishes three really important things here. I think she said right thing, I think she did the right thing. She both gives some cover to those Democrats in the House whose constituents are saying why aren't you impeaching him. They can now say it's impossible. The Democratic leader won't let it happen. She's managing expectations downward for the Mueller report, which I think is also important. And finally, she's acknowledging what I think too many Democrats don't, which is impeachment doesn't accomplish all you think it is going to. We talk about it as if there not a second step, which is the trial in the Senate. And there is no reason to believe that Donald Trump would actually be ejected from office after impeachment. So I think in what she said and what she's doing she's educating people on all of that and I think accomplishing something important.

CAMEROTA: As we know, it can have unintended consequences, as Frank was talking about. However, particularly the freshmen Democrats, some of them ran on it. Some of them were still eager to attempt to impeach the president. And so will they just let it lie, now?

ALEX BURNS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think it is unlikely that impeachment is just going to go away as a political issue because Nancy Pelosi said this. But for impeachment to actually become a realistic possibility in the House you would need to have -- the Republicans are actually not that relevant to that conversation in the House. But you would need to have a broad consensus in the Democratic conference.

And even though some of the very, very liberal freshmen have gotten most of the attention since the election, they are not a uniformly liberal or strident or pro impeachment group.

I thought a striking part of that Nancy Pelosi quote was when she said, I haven't said this to any press person before, right. This isn't the first time she's said this. We reported during the midterms on all of this discomfort with Nancy Pelosi as a leader of the party among more moderate Democrats, people in redder districts where she's very unpopular. And part of the case that she and her allies were privately making to people was after the election who is going to be in a position to put a check on the far left or on the people who will stampede into a big fight like impeachment or a government shutdown or some of those big fights that you saw the Tea Party Republican freshmen pick after 2011, and that's what you're seeing right now.

BERMAN: It's interesting. We talked to Cheri Bustos who is in charge of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, and she basically said the Democrats aren't getting credit for the policy they are trying to approach right now because of impeachment, because Michael Cohen has overshadowed everything. They want to be talking about Medicare, for instance. Maybe not Medicare for all in all cases, but they want to be talking about the reduction in cost increases and spending that the White House just proposed yesterday, Abby.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, exactly. And I think that that was a lesson the Democrats learned in the last election was that they are the strongest when they are running on something, not just running against Trump. It was interesting to hear her say that when Michael Cohen was testifying, a lot of Democrats thought that was damaging to the president. But she said it sucked all the oxygen out of the building in Congress. They couldn't get any attention on any of the other stuff. They were having hearings on health care, trying to have hearings on a number of other issues. None of it got attention.

So there are a lot of Democrats who are in the business of trying to get other Democrats elected, and are also in the business of trying to get Donald Trump out of office, who are saying the only way to do that is both to have Donald Trump on the ballot but also to have other issues that we know we can run on that voters actually care about because it will stand in contrast. Their message is it will stand in contrast to what the Republican party has been doing for the last two years, and in the last four years. So a lot of Democrats are concerned very that impeachment is just going to be something that makes people feel good but doesn't actually accomplish anything and might actually have the opposite effect when it comes down to the ballot box.

[08:10:07] CAMEROTA: OK, Frank, speaking of Democrats trying to get elected, Joe Biden is in the Virgin Islands and Beto is headed to Iowa. What do you make of these developments?

BRUNI: Maybe that means Beto is going to announce before Joe Biden does. I think Joe Biden has all the time in the world. He's not going to use all the time in the world, and Democrats are getting impatient, but he is such a presumed frontrunner that he doesn't have to worry if I do it a few days too late, I'm not going to have adequate velocity, I'm not going to get enough attention. I think the question is why hasn't Beto announced yet. And I think he's someone who as each day goes by, or week, if he waits too long I think looks more and more like this ridiculous Hamlet who can't make up his mind.

BERMAN: But this week we think might actually be it. Why do we think that? Because he's going to Iowa.

BRUNI: Yes, but I also think because he understands that anyone watching this understands that he cannot wait too much longer without seeming a little bit ridiculous.

BERMAN: His Iowa trip this weekend, Alex, what should we make of it? What should we make of Beto world now?

BURNS: I think the Iowa trip is a very, very big deal. I think that if we're going to get a sense of whether the magic is still there, although it's very possible that we'll get some kind of false positive, because everybody who goes to Iowa these days is getting an enormous reception. Not just these giant celebrity candidates. So the question is, does he get a reception on the level of a Kamala Harris, or is he one of a number of candidates at this point who is trying to capture that energy in the party towards change, towards youth, towards a different way of doing politics.

BERMAN: Can I ask you, because you are in touch with a lot of the campaigns right now. Are they nervous? Do they look at the Beto entrance as something that will change the campaign as a threat to maybe the Kamala Harris campaign or Bernie Sanders?

BURNS: I think they're quite anxious about what he's going to do. I think Joe Biden, as Frank said, is in a category on his own because he has this really separate kind of biography and message and political base within the Democratic Party, older, more moderate, generally whiter Democratic primary voters. Everybody else, almost everybody else, is trying to compete for some piece of that youthful, more diverse base in the Democratic Party. The folks who we saw running for office and filing for office in the midterm elections, even Bernie Sanders, who is certainly the strongest candidate out there right now, is really depending on what I think we could call the green point vote in the Democratic Party, right, the millennial, liberal base. And Beto goes right at that.

CAMEROTA: Abby, do we have any sense of who makes the White House most anxious?

PHILLIP: We know the president has been curious about people, including about Biden. People close to the president are concerned about Biden. They think that he has a lot of potential reach for the kinds of voters who crossed over to Trump in the last election, that he could blunt the president's impact with those people.

But it was interesting to see earlier this year the president pick a fight with Beto O'Rourke by going to El Paso, his hometown basically, helping to raise Beto's stature, and creating sort of a charismatic personality around someone who possibly is running for office. And I think there is sort of an already made match-up between the two of them in part because they had dueling rallies that night. That will be interesting and different for Trump than someone who has a more traditional profile, like Joe Biden would, to reach the voters that everyone came out of 2016 thinking were so important. Beto could potentially upend that by just being a more charismatic person, by having a broad-based reach.

I don't know that the president or his team really knows what to make of it. And I think a lot of people saw that El Paso move as a bit of a misstep because it really didn't accomplish what the president wanted to accomplish, and it created a new opponent for President Trump that he didn't have really going into it. There are a lot of other candidates that he's curious about. But I think that the president will have some trouble figuring out what to do with some of these new players who are not going to fit into these traditional molds and get an easy nickname that he can label them with going into this next election.

BERMAN: Before we leave 2020, Frank, there is a but wait, there's more. There is yet another candidate who is dangling the possibility she might get in. Stacey Abrams who ran for governor of Georgia put out this tweet, and she was at South by Southwest over the weekend, and she said this out loud. But the end of this tweet is "2020 is definitely on the table." And she's talking about a 2020 presidential run.

BRUNI: I would be surprised if that happened. But it's got to be difficult when you see this many people out there to think, why not me? Why not throw my hat in the ring? I don't think that's going to happen.

And I could just say one more thing about Beto, this is such a different moment for him than his Senate campaign was. He is under fire right now, and his opponents, or his would be opponents if he gets in, are drawing attention to just how progressive is his actual voting record, just how progressive were his years in Congress. Does what he says -- is what she's saying on the stump, does that match up with his record? Look at how much money he has. Beto is being framed in a much different way right now than he was by Ted Cruz during that Senate race.

[08:15:03] And I think it's going to be challenging for him.

CAMEROTA: Interesting. Any Stacey Abrams thoughts?

BURNS: Look, she's a figure of immense interest I think across the party. I think you already some Democratic -- prominent activists saying it's more important we have a serious candidate in the Senate race than yet another person running for president.

If she runs she'll be a factor in the race for sure. It's harder to get on the 2020 train at this point than if you were Beto and immediately while you were running for Senate in Texas, you were already toying with the possibility.

BERMAN: All right, friends. Thank you very, very much.

CAMEROTA: Great to see you, guys.

Not all Democrats agree with Nancy Pelosi on impeachment. Up next, I will talk to a House Democrat about why he thinks impeachment is inevitable.

BERMAN: Inevitable.

CAMEROTA: Inevitable.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says she's not for impeachment because she feels president Trump is, quote, just not worth it.

But one high ranking Democrat disagrees. He thinks impeachment proceedings are, quote, inevitable.

Joining us now is that Democratic Congressman John Yarmuth. He's the chairman of the House Budget Committee.

Good morning, Congressman.

REP. JOHN YARMUTH (D), KENTUCKY: Good morning, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: What do you mean impeachment is inevitable?

YARMUTH: Well, first of all, I think he probably ought to be impeached because of the budget document he sent up to the Hill yesterday.

[08:20:02] But that's another story. You know, I think we have a situation -- I fully understand where Speaker Pelosi is coming from. She makes valid points. But in my opinion, if impeachment is to mean anything, and it is in the Constitution for a reason, it is because when we see evidence of impeachable offenses, we need to start the process to remove the president from office.

CAMEROTA: So, let's talk about that.

YARMUTH: Sure.

CAMEROTA: Because as you know, there are all sorts of investigations, congressional, as well as Mueller. So, how -- why are you already ready to start impeachment proceedings when people haven't reached conclusions yet?

YARMUTH: Exactly. I think we are essentially in the beginning of an impeachment process. Impeachment process begins with hearings. Judiciary Committee is holding them, Intelligence Committee, Oversight Committee. So, we are gathering evidence of many of the possible impeachable offenses.

I happen to believe there is sufficient evidence of abuse of power, violating the emoluments clause.

CAMEROTA: Such as -- I mean, just spell it out, since nobody has reached a conclusion. What do you think has been conclusive?

YARMUTH: Well, first of all, let me make a distinction. A lot of people confuse evidence with proof. There is an abundance of evidence, for instance, that the Trump campaign cooperated with the Russians in the middle of the 2016 election.

Is there proof? Not yet. Maybe. But there is plenty of evidence.

Abuse of power, just the other day, a report that the president was trying to use his office to kill a proposed merger deal with Time Warner and AT&T because to get at CNN. He favored a merger deal to help his friend Rupert Murdoch. So, that's evidence of abuse of power.

And again, we need to look into it. I don't think now there is a way to get 218 votes on the floor of the House for an impeachment resolution. I think that's not a matter of whether, but it is a matter of when.

CAMEROTA: You know that impeachments sometimes have unintended consequences and that the American public doesn't seem to like going through it that much. So, does that change --

YARMUTH: I wouldn't either.

CAMEROTA: Does that temper your feeling that it would be inevitable?

YARMUTH: Again, I think we have obligations under the Constitution. The Founding Fathers put the impeachment process in the Constitution for a reason. It was essentially a way of keeping the chief executive from doing additional damage to the country.

I think we are very close to that point, if not there. That's why I think, again, it is our obligation. It may not be the smartest political calculation. I fully concede that. Again, I understand where Speaker Pelosi is coming from on that score.

CAMEROTA: But are you disappointed that she said it so unequivocally, do you wish she hadn't said it?

YARMUTH: No, I think that's fine. We all have different opinions about things. I think that's healthy.

CAMEROTA: I want to ask you about -- you are Jewish. I want to ask you about the president, recently, it seems, trying to deflect attention away from himself after Charlottesville and saying Democrats are an anti-Jewish party. What's your response?

YARMUTH: It's an absurd statement. You know, Jews have always been overwhelmingly supportive of Democrats. They have aligned with Democratic values.

We have more than 20 Jewish members in the House, eight in the Senate. There are no Jewish Republicans in the Senate, just a couple in the House.

So, for him to talk about Democrats being a party that hates Jews is ridiculous. It's just as you expressed, a way of diverting attention from himself and from his basically condemnation of bigotry throughout the society, bigotry directed at Jews, bigotry directed at Muslims, at Mexicans, you name it, he's condoned that.

CAMEROTA: But he has seized on Congresswoman Omar's comments. And I'm wondering if you think that Congress did go far enough in condemning her since they were not specifically condemning her comments.

YARMUTH: Well, if you read the actual resolution, there is no escaping the fact that it was directed at the comments she made. It addressed specifically the question of describing somebody as having dual loyalties, the very allegations made against her. So, I think that's kind of -- again, that's a smokescreen. The resolution, I think rightfully condemned the potentially anti-Semitic remarks that Congresswoman Omar made as well as many of the anti-Muslim dynamics that are going on in the country now.

CAMEROTA: But did you feel that that vote was just symbolic and procedural?

YARMUTH: I don't know that it's symbolic. I think it was unnecessary. Just two weeks before that, we passed a resolution condemning anti-Semitism in all forms. So, it's kind of redundant, if anything.

CAMEROTA: OK. So, why do you think President Trump's budget is impeachable?

YARMUTH: Well, I'm kidding about being impeachable --

CAMEROTA: I get it. But what did you think was so offensive about it?

YARMUTH: Well, it's just a continuation of the pattern of Republicans that started back with Paul Ryan when he was chairman of the Budget Committee.

[08:25:06] It's cut taxes on the wealthiest Americans, then cry about the ensuing deficits and then ask for deep cuts in programs that help middle and lower income Americans. It's exactly what the budget does. It extends the 2017 tax cuts, adds a trillion to the deficit and slashes Medicaid, Medicare, student loans, SNAP program, just about everything that the vulnerable populations in this country rely on as well as middle income Americans.

So, it's a very, very cruel-hearted budget. It is not much different than what was proposed last year, except it did extend the tax cuts which go predominantly to the wealthiest Americans. It adds a trillion more to the deficit.

CAMEROTA: Congressman John Yarmuth, thank you very much for sharing your position on all these things.

YARMUTH: Thanks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: John?

BERMAN: All right. Fox News host Tucker Carlson defiant and pointing fingers after offensive remarks that he made. He's the one who said them. What he said then and now. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Fox News host Tucker Carlson is painting himself as sort of the, I guess, victim.

[08:30:00]