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U.K. Lawmakers To Vote On Possible No-Deal Withdrawal; ISIS Is On The Verge Of Losing The Last Town Under Its Control; CNN Speaks To The Founder And CEO Of China's Huawei; The List Of Countries And Airlines Banning The Boeing 737 MAX 8 Is Growing Aired: 8-9a ET

Aired March 13, 2019 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

JULIA CHATTERLEY, ANCHOR, CNN: Hello and welcome to the show. I'm Julia Chatterley live from outside the U.K. Houses of Parliament here in London.

Welcome to another momentous day in the history of modern Britain. Prime Minister May is in the House of Commons behind me about to field the Prime

Minister's Questions, yet the biggest question on the table is the one she simply won't be answering. Will Britain leave the E.U. without a deal?

The task of answering that falls to those on the benches in just a few hours' time. Members of Parliament will vote on whether to take the U.K.

out of Europe without a deal. This is the most radical, the hardest form of Brexit. The U.K. would leave with absolutely no agreements in place on

the nature of its relationship with the E.U. It would also mean no transition period.

If lawmakers reject no-deal, then we move on to another vote on Thursday. That one would decide whether to delay Brexit, but that would require E.U.

cooperation and E.U. Brexit Chief Michel Barnier said this morning he's not sure there would be much point in that.

We have you covered on all the angles here. Erin McLaughlin is at the European Commission in Brussels but first, we'll go to Hadas Gold outside

Number 10 Downing Street.

Hadas, we have Prime Minister's Questions coming up very shortly. We have got a debate then on this vote tonight and then, of course, the vote around

7:00 p.m. London time tonight. No time to dwell on last night's loss of Prime Minister, what are we expecting for the coming hours?

HADAS GOLD, REPORTER, CNN: Julia, it's been a busy day here already at 10 Downing Street already. There was a Cabinet meeting earlier today, then

Theresa May left for Parliament and we just saw Phillip Hammond, the Chancellor, leave because he is actually needing to deliver the spring

statement. This is sort of the mini budget for the U.K. that normally would be the biggest story of the day, but obviously, with Brexit, we are

focused on other things.

Although, Phillip Hammond's statement on the spring statement could give us a clue into how he sees how Brexit could affect the economy. He will

probably issue some sort of warning about a no-deal scenario, and then a few hours later tonight, we'll get that vote on the no-deal scenario,

whether Members of Parliament want to take that a no-deal off the table. That would mean that unless the U.K. gets a withdrawal agreement that they

can all agree on that the E.U. agrees on, then they won't leave the European Union until they get that.

If they vote for that tonight, then tomorrow, there will be a vote that could send the U.K. to the European Union to ask to extend Article 50, to

ask to extend that deadline. The question is when will that deadline then be? Will it be later in the summer, and then also, what does that change?

Because we still have an issue where we can't get Parliament to all agree on what should be a withdrawal agreement of any sort.

The European Union has pretty much said that they are done negotiating. That's it. So it's not clear what could change. What I can say Julia is

that the chances of a no-deal have gone up, the chances of a general election have gone up. And still nobody knows what's happening including

the people behind me at 10 Downing Street, nobody has any idea of what is going to happen next, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Chances of a no deal have gone up, until of course, we see this vote tonight and see whether Parliament rules out because we've

thought all the way along ab out this perhaps being the only thing right now that Parliament can agree on.

The question is if we get through that and as you said, and the critical question here is what happens if we ask the E.U. to delay here? Let's go

to Erin to get the answer to that question. We've already heard from Michel Barnier, the Chief Brexit negotiator this morning, Erin saying, what

would be the purpose of a delay and quite frankly, he has got a fair point here.

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Exactly, and he also said, Julia, the only real way to rule out that dreaded no-deal scenario seen as

catastrophic for both sides of the channel is to vote for an actual deal.

But to do that at this point from the vantage point of E.U. leaders and E.U. officials, the U.K. is going to need to reevaluate its redlines and

define what it wants from the future relationship. Take a listen to what the Chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier had to say in Strasbourg

earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHEL BARNIER, E.U. CHIEF BREXIT NEGOTIATOR (Through a translator): It is the U.K.'s responsibility to tell us what they want for our future

relations. That is a question that needs to be posed for which we expect an answer. It will be a priority even before the question of an extension.

Negotiations on Article 50 are finished.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:05:01]

MCLAUGHLIN: We also heard from the Chief Brexit coordinator for the European Parliament, who took to Twitter this morning to say, "My plea to

our British friends, put all your energy into finding a cross party majority to find a way out of this mess." But there are no signs of that

happening at this point in Westminster -- Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, look to London right now, not Brussels. Erin, thank you so much for that. Hadas, thank you for your update there, too. All right,

let's talk more about this.

Joey Jones joins us now. He's the former spokesman for the Prime Minister Theresa May and the former Deputy Political Editor of "Sky News." Joey,

fantastic to have you with us. Do you expect Parliament to vote this evening to rule out a no-deal exit?

JOEY JONES JOINS, FORMER SPOKESMAN FOR THE PRIME MINISTER THERESA MAY: Yes, I do. I think that there will be a substantial majority for that.

There's not an appetite for no-deal. There is a limited appetite for those who say that there is value in retaining that - that cliff edge that sense

of jeopardy as part of a negotiating strategy. But I don't think there are enough MPs that support that to actually retain it on the table.

CHATTERLEY: I don't think we should skip over this fact. For the first time in what feels like a really long time, Parliament actually coming

together and agreeing on at least something in this negotiating process, which would be ruling out a no-deal exit. But as you say, it's complex.

JONES: It's always been there, that Parliament can agree on what they don't want. The issue is what they actually do want, and getting the

majority for something positive and negotiable is proving to be an appalling challenge. And one that the government and the Parliament can't

rise to at the moment.

One of the most interesting things about what's going to happen in this vote this evening is that normally, the government would have a position

and it would mandate its own side, it would whip as we say, inside through the normal channels, the party discipline to support the government.

Now, the Prime Minister's voice has given way over the past 48 hours. But her authority has also given way. She doesn't have the ability to impose

that discipline. So instead, we're having a free vote and the danger is that now that will let the genie out of the bottle and there will be a

whole range of other three votes and Technicolor amendments that will be tabled and voted on.

CHATTERLEY: Ability or will to whip her party into line on this point, because all the way along, she's allowed and tried to appease all sides of

the Party here that the Brexiteers and the remainers within her own party, surely forcing them to say, "Come on, we need a solution here. We need a

situation." Sixteen days out from Brexit was also an option here, too, and she chose not to take it.

JONES: Well, she would wish to be able to exert that authority. I think the likelihood is that what she would have preferred is as I say, as part

of her negotiating strategy to retain no-deal on the table, but if she forced the point and said that she was going to impose that discipline even

her own Chancellor, that's the man that, you know, sits next to her on the on the benches and who will be making the spring statement at 12:30.

CHATTERLEY: Yes.

JONES: He might have walked and I'm voted against which would have precipitated a resignation --

CHATTERLEY: And that's the key. She could have lost numerous members of our own Cabinet by doing so. And that was the challenge here. You said,

look we know we don't want here. The problem is we don't know what we do. Do you think we can also get a majority tomorrow if we get to a vote

tomorrow to delay Brexit on March 29th?

JONES: Yes, but on what sort of a delay? How long? And for what reasons? The European Union understandably, are playing hardball. They're saying,

well, we'll consider it today. But you have to tell us why. And again, it's that issue of why? What's the plan? What do we want to do?

I mean, Theresa May's plan has run out of road now for the now for the time being and it means that she is handing the levers of power over to other

Parliamentarians who will have to come up with a with their own flights of fancy or they would hope, practical plans.

I think it's possible that none of that will work, and so by the time that the E.U. Council, the end of next week, we might be returning to another

meaningful vote on pretty much the same terms.

CHATTERLEY: I mean, it's a flight of fancy that's going round and round and round in circles. Joey Jones, thank you so much for joining us on the

show. We will have plenty more Brexit and discussion ahead this hour. But now I want to turn to Eastern Syria. That's where a new wave of airstrikes

and bombardments is taking place in an effort to take out the remaining ISIS fighters.

After 15 hours of intense shelling, ISIS is on the verge of losing the last town under its control. Three thousand fighters have surrendered to U.S.-

backed Syrian Democratic Forces so far.

CNN's senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman joins us from Eastern Syria with the latest on the battle. Ben, we can hear the noises behind

you. Just described what we've seen particularly overnight and in the last few hours in terms of artillery fire, small arms fire and what that tells

you about progress.

BEN WEDEMAN, SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN: But what we hear behind me is actually ammunition department of some sort that's been hit.

And so there are probably thousands, tens of thousands of rounds going out somewhere behind that ...

[08:10:10]

WEDEMAN: ... thick pile of smoke that's been rising from the junkyard. That is all that remains of the so called Islamic State. We have been

watching since about 6:00 p.m. local time last night, a very heavy bombardment with artillery mortars and multiple heavy air strikes.

There's been a lot of exchange of machine gun fire as well, ISIS we are told, has actually tried to counter attack. It's really windy up here. I

am just going to have to hold on to the wall -- taking two positions that were previously held by the Syrian Democratic Forces. They're also using

one of their old methods, which is suicide car bombs, five of them being used overnight that is hampering the progress of the troops.

But every officer, commander with the Syrian Democratic Forces, we speak to say that there will be no pause to this battle that they're going to

continue and intensify until they finally defeat what is left of this so called Islamic State --Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Ben, do we have any sense of how many more fighters remain here and I think CNN viewers have now been watching you for many days and

mostly you've been crouched down, protecting yourself from the fire that we see. The fact that we're now seeing you standing actually further

indication again of the reduction in the amount of fighters that we have in this area now.

WEDEMAN: There's no clear idea how many fighters are left inside they area. In fact, in terms of incoming fire, it's completely unpredictable.

But we understand that within the last 48 hours, more than 3,000 Jihadis, as well as their family members have surrendered.

But the numbers game is one that even the Syrian Democratic Forces spokesman simply don't want to get into any more because they've

persistently consistently underestimated the number of civilians and fighters, so we just don't know, but I can tell you after three nights of

very intense bombardment, it's hard to imagine there are very many fighters left inside, but nobody wants to put a number to that -- Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Ben Wedeman, thank you so much for that and stay safe. All right, coming up. CNN speaks to the founder and CEO of China's Huawei as

his company pushes back against being labeled by the United States as a threat to national security. We're live in Shenzhen and back in two.

You're watching CNN.

Plus, pressure mounts on Boeing as CNN learns at least five pilots of have logged complaints in the past about to the 737 MAX, the model of plane

that's had two deadly crashes in the last five months.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:15:00]

CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to CNN special coverage. I'm Julian Chatterley. We're sitting right outside the U.K. Parliament where another crucial vote

will be held in just a few hours from now.

The Prime Minister's revised deal was overwhelmingly rejected Tuesday. Now, lawmakers must decide whether Britain should leave with no-deal. If

they say yes to that, then it's a no-deal Brexit on March 29th. If they say no, we move on to a further vote on Thursday. That will be on whether

to ask the E.U. to delay Brexit. And if members of Parliament say no to that, there's simply no roadmap for what will happen next.

Speaking moments ago during Prime Minister's Questions in the House of Commons, Theresa May had this to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I want to leave the European Union with a good deal. I believe we have a good deal. Yes, no deal is better

than a bad deal. But I want for us to leave on the 29th of March and leave with a good deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHATTERLEY: That's the Prime Minister's voice, not all sound, as you can hear, almost completely gone now. We have much more Brexit coverage ahead

this hour, but now to another long running dispute. This time between the United States government and Huawei.

Its CEO and founder tell CNN that his firm's lawsuit against the United States is about quote, "making our voice heard." Our Matt Rivers joins us

live from Shenzhen. He sat down with the usually media shy executive in his first interview since Huawei sued the U.S. over its law that bans

Federal agencies from buying its products. Matt, fantastic timing to get this interview making their voice heard make sense. Is it more about the

PR here? The ongoing PR backlog rather than hopes of winning this lawsuit?

MATT RIVERS, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Yes, I think there's a couple of motivations behind this lawsuit. I think there's not a real expectation on

Huawei's part that they could win this lawsuit. But you're right. It's about more than that. I mean, this first of all, is a counter attack. This

is Huawei taking a tangible step to counter what the United States has been doing and the United States has launched an all-out assault on this

company.

They've got two standing Federal indictments. They consistently say that Huawei's products pose a national security threat. They accuse Huawei of

being in Beijing pocket, allowing China to use its products to conduct espionage. And this is Huawei standing up in the U.S. Court saying "No,

that is not true," repeating the same sort of denials that they continually say except they're doing it in a courtroom.

So this is part of our interview Julia with the Huawei founder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REN ZHENGFEI, FOUNDER, HUAWEI (Through a translator): Why is Huawei being singled out there is no Huawei equipment in the U.S. networks? Has that

made the U.S. networks totally safe? If not, how can they tell other countries that your networks would be safe without Huawei? That's why we

want to make clear our stance by suing the U.S. government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIVERS: And there's something key and what he said there, Julia. And that gives you I think, a more insight into the reasons behind this lawsuit. He

talks about other countries. Huawei doesn't need market access to the U.S. for its bottom line, at least at this point, but it does need market access

in Germany and New Zealand, and U.K., all these other places. That's where it needs to make money.

And in making this lawsuit public and filing it, Huawei is telling -- is sending a message to other countries around the world saying, "Don't listen

to the U.S. Don't buy their lobbying. Don't cave into U.S. threats about using our products. We stand by what we're saying, and we're willing to go

to court over it," Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, pressure mounting on the United States to come up with the evidence to justify the ban here. Matt Rivers great interview. Thank

you so much for that.

Somewhere else where we're seeing pressure is on Boeing, the U.S. and Canada and now the only country still flying substantial numbers of the

Boeing 737 MAX 8. That's the model that crashed in Ethiopia on Sunday and the same model that crashed into the Java Sea in October.

The list of countries and airlines banning the plane is growing -- Turkey, Lebanon, Hong Kong and India now among them, and CNN has learned pilots

have raised concerns about the aircraft with the U.S. government before. We don't know their identities or the airlines they fly with, but the

anonymous incident reports filed in a Federal database are disturbing.

One pilot wrote in November 2018, "The aircraft accelerated normally and the Captain engaged in 'A' autopilot after reaching set speed. Within two

to three seconds ..."

[08:20:10]

CHATTERLEY: " ... the aircraft pitched nose down. The Captain immediately disconnected the autopilot and pitched into a climb. The remainder of the

flight was uneventful. We discussed the departure at length, and I reviewed in my mind our automation setup and flight profile, but can't

think of any reason the aircraft would pitch nose down so aggressively."

CNN has reached out to the FAA for comment. Boeing say safety is its top priority, and it stands by the 737 MAX fleet. Richard Quest is back at the

bureau here in London, and he joins us on the show now.

Richard, you know so much about both of these incidents, what do you make of what pilots were suggesting there was a problem and what they've

noticed, but also the fact that the FAA still right now holding off from grounding these jets?

RICHARD QUEST, ANCHOR, CNN: Yes, two very, very valid points. Firstly, on the comments, the comments and the complaints, and the actions that they

talk about are exactly the ones that are in dispute here or under investigation here.

The way in which the MAX aircraft responds to automation, the so-called MCAS system that pushes the nose down in certain circumstances. And Boeing

and the FAA have been aware for a long time that there have been some problems and that there have been complaints. This is not new to Boeing.

But Boeing always says that there is a procedure in place, which, incidentally, seems to be this procedure they used and that the plane is

safe.

Now, the second of your questions is why hasn't the FAA moved? The FAA is standing on the principle that they've looked at it, they've looked the

research. There is no new evidence by which to ban them. There's no reason to ban them at this point. And they're standing on a matter of

principle here - the principle being that until they have the facts of this crash, they're not going to move.

But Julia, they're not -- the problem for the FAA is this is now in the court of public opinion. And the public opinion is saying they are worried

about this plane. The FAA is just looking stubborn.

CHATTERLEY: You know, it's interesting, a lot of people looking at this and saying, "Look, if this weren't a U.S. company, Boeing perhaps they

would be acting differently even if the methodology that they using here is the same," Richard, you know, I'll read a quote from the Chairman of the

House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee. He said, "The international aviation regulators are providing more certainty to the

flying public than the FAA here."

I mean, you can't say more simply than that.

QUEST: Yes, I mean this is absolutely right and there are those who are saying today, God forbid, if the flight had gone down in the United States

that had been banned and they're sort of saying today, "Well, you know there is a vested interest by American Southwest and United." Now I don't

for a second think that those airlines would willingly take unnecessary risks with their planes. I don't think Boeing intends to fly an unsafe

aircraft.

I don't think any of those things, but we're in the realms here of an abundance of caution. If you look at all those authorities that banned the

plane or grounded it, I should say, they talk about precautionary. Safety first, abundance of caution or the sort of words that basically can be

summed up in a sentence, "Better safe than sorry." And the FAA seems to be saying, "Well, we don't need to worry about that because we're telling you

it's safe because nobody's told us it's not."

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and the course of public opinion matters here. Richard Quest, thank you so much for that.

QUEST: Thank you.

CHATTERLEY: All right, let's move on. A Melbourne judge has handed down a six-year prison sentence to Cardinal George Pell for sex abuse calling his

attack on two choir boys breathtakingly arrogant, but someone saying he should have gotten a much heavier sentence. CNN's Anna Coren reports.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're the devil. You're evil. You're a monster.

ANNA COREN, CORRESPONDENT, CNN (voice over): For the survivors of clerical sexual abuse in Australia, the sentencing of the country's highest ranking

Catholic for heinous crimes was a moment they had long been waiting for.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today is a victory for not just Australia, but globally.

BRIAN F. VERNILLE, CLERICAL ABUSE SURVIVOR: And justice has been served. The truth has come out.

CHIEF JUDGE PETER KIDD, COUNTY COURT VICTORIA: Cardinal Pell, would you please stand. I sentence you to a total effective sentence of six years

imprisonment. I set a non-parole period of three years and eight months.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COREN (voice over): Seventy-seven year old Cardinal George Pell who until last month had been at the Vatican Treasurer was found guilty on all five

counts of sexually abusing two teenage choir boys when he was Archbishop of Melbourne in the late 90s.

[08:25:09]

COREN (voice over): Chief Judge Peter Kidd who allowed his hour-long remarks we televised live describe the attacks as brazen, appalling and

sexually graphic saying that Pell had not only breached trust, but had abused his power.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIDD: The offending which the jury has found you have engaged in was on any view breathtakingly arrogant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COREN (voice over): The conviction of the Cardinal came down to the testimony of one choir boy who said that in 1996, Pell forced him to

perform oral sex on him and carried out indecent acts with him and his friend in the priest sacristy after Sunday Mass in Melbourne's St.

Patrick's Cathedral.

The other choir boy died of a heroin overdose in 2014. His father whose identity can't be shown for legal reasons, says he was disappointed and it

hopes the Cardinal would receive a longer sentence/

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My son is dead. That's a life sentence. He didn't get a life sentence for what he did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COREN (voice over): The surviving choir boy who wants to remain anonymous, asked his lawyer to read a statement on his behalf.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIVIAN WALLER, LAWYER FOR SURVIVING CHOIR BOY: I appreciate that the court has acknowledged what was inflicted upon me as a child. However, there is

no rest for me. Everything is overshadowed by the forthcoming appeal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COREN (voice over): Pell, now a registered sex offender maintains his innocence and his appeal will be heard in June, but if his conviction

stands, he won't be eligible for parole until the end of 2022. The judge well aware, this man with deteriorating health may in fact die in prison.

Anna Coren, CNN, Hong Kong.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

CHATTERLEY: All right, we're going to take a quick break. Up next, back to Brexit. Theresa May takes questions in the House of Commons. MPs mull

today's vote on no-deal Brexit and the E.U.'s chief negotiator says he's ready for the worst-case scenario. Our special coverage continues after

this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHATTERLEY: I'm Julia Chatterley outside the British Houses of Parliament here in London. With a seriously strained voice, the U.K. Prime Minister

is fielding questions in the House of Commons behind me. It's a sign of the significance of what will unfold there today that she's mainly the warm

up act for the main event that will be the vote in the coming hours by Members of Parliament on whether to execute the most radical form of

Brexit, taking the U.K. out of Europe without deal.

Meanwhile, we've been getting reaction out of Europe to Parliament's rejection of Mrs. May's deal with the E.U.

[08:30:07]

CHATTERLEY: Chief negotiator, Michel Barnier reiterated this morning that this is the only deal available. He also said that Europe is prepared for

a new deal exit and questions the value of any extension of the March 29 Brexit deadline.

This string of Brexit setbacks is fueling calls by lawmakers for a second referendum and some communities who initially voted to leave the E.U. are

also having second thoughts, but not the people of Whitby, England, that's where we find CNN's Phil Black.

Phil, I'll come straight out to you. Obviously, it was an area that voted for leave, but they're saying, look, we stand by our decision despite the

chaos that we've seen. Is that right?

PHIL BLACK, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Yes, indeed, Julia. That's pretty much it in a nutshell. The iconic industry here is fishing, but it's an industry

that's been in decline for some time and the local fishermen blame the E.U. -- it's rules and regulations, its common fisheries policy for that. And

so they wanted Brexit in a really big way.

They weren't surprised the Prime Minister's deal was voted down again in Parliament last night. And that's because the fishermen here, well, they

are highly informed about all developments when it comes to Brexit. They see it as being absolutely crucial in their interest. And for them, it is

really personal.

They believe that Brexit will ultimately secure a viable business, a viable industry that it's really important for their families, and for the

wellbeing of this town. So now that the deal has been voted down again, again, not a surprise to them. What they really want to see is Parliament

swing behind a no-deal option because they believe that would deliver what they care about most. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

BLACK (voice over): On England's blustery north east coast, the Spectacular ruins of Whitby Abbey crown the cliffs overlooking the town's

harbor. Whitby's these immense break walls have long sheltered fishing boats from the power of the North Sea, but the harbor is surprisingly

quiet. This is a proud fishing town that just doesn't do a lot of fishing anymore.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD BREWER, FISHERMAN: As you can see, Whitby now is just a shadow of its former self.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACK (voice-over): The Harborside Tea Shed is where lifelong fishermen like Richard Brewer gather to chat, swap stories and grumble about their

number one enemy, the European Union.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BREWER: We're just disgusted with how the fishing industry had been treated over the years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACK (voice-over): It's a common view here, blaming E.U. imposed quotas for almost wiping out Whitby's fleet.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLACK (on camera): What has being a member of the European Union meant for this town, your industry?

JAMES COLES, FISHERMAN: It's absolutely decimated the actual (ph) coast. We used to have a 20-strong fleet here. Each boat had four or five men

going to sea.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACK (voice-over): It's why so many voted for Brexit. And they want it to happen as soon as possible, regardless of the Prime Minister's repeated

failed efforts to get a deal through Parliament.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLES: We want a really good deal but we dictate who fish in our waters or we want a no-deal and everybody out and then we still dictate who comes to

fish in our waters.

BREWER: On the whole, if we got a no-deal, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACK (voice-over): Up the hill, we find more of Whitby's living history. Barry Brown's great-great grandfather started smoking herring here 147

years ago. Barry's an optimistic Brexiteer and a pragmatic supporter of Theresa May's efforts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARRY BROWN, FORTUNE'S KIPPERS: I think she's done all right, to be fair. She's tried her best. It may be not to everyone's liking. It may not be

completely to my liking but we've to come somewhere, some middle ground somewhere.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACK (voice-over): But this part of England isn't just about fish and there are people here who fear Brexit will bring more pain.

Tattoo lover Chris Warrior says Brexit uncertainty has already triggered redundancies at the local plastics company where he works.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLACK (on camera): You worried?

CHRIS WARRIOR, RESIDENT OF WHITBY, ENGLAND: I am, personally, I am. Because well, I'll probably be one of the next ones if anyone else goes.

Personally, I'm worried.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACK (voice-over): Some people in Whitby ask, what would James Cook make of all this?

The town's most famous resident, one of Britain's greatest maritime explorers, was the first to chart much of the Pacific Ocean, including New

Zealand and parts of Australia. Celebrated world-changing achievements that somehow seem far less challenging than solving the mysteries and

contradictions at the heart of Brexit.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

BLACK: And Julia, the fishermen of Whitby are keenly aware of something that I think a lot of people often forget, and that is that actually

achieving a Brexit deal or no-deal is really just the beginning of a long process, years of transition and negotiating a whole new range of

arrangements with the European Union on really important issues including crucially for the people here, fisheries and they fully expect the British

government to come under enormous pressure from the E.U. to guarantee E.U. fishing boats rights to fish in British waters in return for market access

in the European Union.

[08:35:06]

BLACK: So from the point of view of with Whitby's fishermen, there is still a lot to fight for even once you get to that Brexit day and also a

lot of potential disappointment if they don't get to an ultimate result that they believe will really transform their industry and their lives --

Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Phil, I think you said it perfectly there that the mysteries and the contradictions at the core of Brexit here and they remain. Thank

you very much for that I'm going to go now to international diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson who is live from Londonderry, Northern Ireland.

Nic, you really are at the core of the challenge here not just for the failure last night of Theresa May's deal, but the efforts by the government

to announce their tariff policy today and the efforts to keep that border between Northern Ireland and Ireland as frictionless as possible in a no-

deal exit scenario. Talk me through that and the reaction to the decision last night to not vote for Theresa May's deal.

NIC ROBERTSON, INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR, CNN: Julia, let's just talk about what the British government has announced in terms of the border

-- no tariffs, no checks. I've got to say it's gone down here like a lead balloon. The Irish Farmers Association says that this is going to turn the

border area into the Wild West and Northern Ireland Retailers Consortium say that no checks, no tariffs is no solution at all.

They say that the farmers and businessmen along the border here are going to lose out. The notion that it is possible to have goods coming from the

Republic of Ireland with no tariffs, but what happens to their goods that are traded across the border. Fears as well that this situation could be

exploited. There is difference of a situation. Tariffs on mainland U.K., but not tariffs across the border here. It could be exploited by

criminals, terrorists in the past. The IRA used to exploit the border.

Weaknesses along the border by, for example, transporting oil one way or another across the border depending where they could make a profit and sell

it that way and that was money in the coffers for the IRA to buy guns and weapons.

We've heard from the Irish Minister of European Affairs, Helen McEntee today describing this as a lose-lose scenario for the whole of Ireland.

People we've talked to on the streets here in Derry today, you know, they want that border open. They don't particularly trust the politicians to

keep their word and the British government has said very clearly and that these are unilateral decisions that they've taken and that they're

temporary of nature.

The no-deal scenario hangs over the heads of people in the Democratic Unionist Party props up Theresa May's government says absolutely, they're

going to continue to push for the possibility of a no-deal Brexit.

CHATTERLEY: Wow, Phil Black there with the mysteries and the contradictions at the heart of Brexit and Nic Robertson there talking about

the Irish border potentially becoming the Wild West. Whatever next. Gentlemen, thank you.

Coming up. Our Brexit coverage continues. Britain's Prime Minister faces calls to step down after another crushing defeat. Now Parliament will vote

on whether the U.K. should leave with no-deal at all. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHATTERLEY: Brexit chaos continues right now with a very strained voice, Prime Minister Theresa May is answering questions from Parliament in the

House of Commons behind me just two hours before a crucial vote on whether Britain should leave the E.U. with no deal at all.

[08:40:00]

CHATTERLEY: If tonight's vote fails, another vote is set for Thursday on whether to delay the March 29 Brexit deadline. The opposition leader says

her government is quote, "rudderless and time is up." But Mrs. May said she still believes an agreement is possible. Listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAY: I may not have my own voice, but I do understand the voice of the country and that is people want to leave the E.U. They want to end free

movement. They want to have our own trade policy. They want to ensure laws are made in this country and judged in our courts. That's what the

deal delivers. That's what I continue to work to deliver. You used to believe that, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHATTERLEY: Battling on in so many ways. I want to bring in CNN political contributor Robin Oakley. Great to have you with us.

ROBIN OAKLEY, POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR, CNN: Thank you, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: A free vote today, not going to force her party to vote. What do we get? A decision from Parliament here to rule out or not a no-deal

exit?

OAKLEY: Well, we get a decision from Parliament today almost certainly to rule out an exit with no-deal on March the 29th. But it doesn't rule out

no-deal forever. And there is an amendment done today. Some MPs want to press the Prime Minister in this debate to make it forever. No possibility

of no-deal exit at any stage.

The question is whether that amendment will be called by the Speaker and how the House of Commons will go on that particular amendment if he does

call it, but you know, we're facing a complete crisis of leadership in both major parties at the moment.

CHATTERLEY: On all sides.

OAKLEY: It not helped Theresa May. I mean, Theresa May has spent far too much time trying to assuage the Brexiteers in her own party, not reaching

out across the parties to get some kind of consensus deal that could work, but at the same time, she's got almost every tactic and strategy wrong and

calling out election to boost her majority instead of losing a part of that majority.

At the same time, we've got Jeremy Corbyn leading the Labour Party, the major opposition party in this country. He's leading a party which is

essentially in favor of remaining in the European Union and he is a Brexiteer at heart. His voting record over the years confirms that.

At the same time, his party conference instructed him if they couldn't get their own deal on Europe to go for a referendum.

CHATTERLEY: The voters don't have a remain party to vote for ultimately. They have MPs, but a leader of a party that doesn't believe that. Very,

very quickly because we have 20 seconds. At what point do we revoke Article 50? Take the power back.

OAKLEY: I don't think we'll see the revoking of Article 50 just yet because Theresa May is going to have one more go, I suspect to get her deal

through Parliament she says that's the only way.

CHATTERLEY: One more go. See you next week, guys. Wow. Robin Oakley. Thank you for that. Thank you very much for watching. I'm Julia

Chatterley and I'll be back in around 15 minutes' time for "First Move." But first, "World Sport" with Amanda Davies is next. Thank you for

watching.

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[09:00:00]

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