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Multiple Fatalities In New Zealand Mass Shootings; Witness: Gunman Shot From Back Of Mosque. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired March 15, 2019 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[01:00:00] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
GEORGE HOWELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: We continue following the breaking news in New Zealand, in the city of Christchurch two mosques attacked, multiple injuries, multiple fatalities. I'm George Howell.
NATALIE ALLEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: I'm madly Allen. Welcome to our viewers around the world. Yes, it is a terrifying scene it has been in Christchurch New Zealand after a mass shooting there, and there's still so much we don't know.
HOWELL: Where police say there are multiple fatalities in these two mosques. If we could show the map, you get a sense of where it's happening. One of those mosques on Deans Avenue there, the other on Linwood Avenue. Police say at least four people are in custody at this point, three men and one woman.
ALLEN: Commissioner Mike Bush also said police have disarmed several vehicles that contained IEDs, Improvised Explosive Devices. Authorities are warning Muslims, of course, to avoid mosques for the rest of the evening. All city schools in a 6:00 p.m. there in Christchurch are still on lockdown.
Parents do not have access to their children at this time because the police said a short time ago they're still making sure they have all the resources in place that they need when they decide it is safe enough that they can release students from schools because they just said to us about 30 minutes ago they don't know that the danger is over at this point.
HOWELL: Natalie, look, I mean, we're both parents. I'm thinking of what it would be like if I couldn't go to get my child from school. The anxiety that these parents are -- must be facing and we heard from a reporter just a short time ago there could be some 40,000 people who are presently in this lockdown situation.
ALLEN: Then imagine the people that don't know about their loved ones. We had information from T.V. New Zealand. There could be nine people who have been killed but we still don't have that confirmed here from CNN. But we do know four people are in custody, three men and woman. HOWELL: We understand the alleged shooter live-streamed a lot of
this. And look, police are asking social media platforms to take down video of shootings allegedly posted by the gunmen. Here's more from the Police Commissioner Mike Bush.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE BUSH, POLICE COMMISSIONER, NEW ZEALAND POLICE: We are currently dealing with an unprecedented situation in New Zealand. It's very grave, very serious. We have dealt with an active shooter situation, we have multiple fatalities at this point. I can't say how many but it is significant.
They occurred in two locations, two mosques in Christchurch, one of Deans Avenue and one at Linwood Avenue. Our police have those locations lockdown. We have four people in custody. We don't -- we are not aware of other people but we cannot assume there are not others at large.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ALLEN: All right, we have just received information that they have now lifted the lockdown of the schools in Christchurch which means of course that parents will be reunited with their children after this very, very tense and terrifying day there in Christchurch. That it's probably happening or starting to happen right now.
HOWELL: So important. It also indicates that police may have -- may have a better sense of that area. We understand that they've saturated that neighborhood, that area so perhaps they're feeling a little more up you know, open to making sure those kids can get reconnected to their parents.
ALLEN: We have been hearing from people that witnessed what went on. They described a terrifying scene at the mosque, the first mosque, the large one, when the gunman walked in and opened fire. Here's what one man had to say shortly after the attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he turned to the open the door to the toilet and they start the firing. And I say what's -- what's going on. And they just keep firing and firing. There's a small window I tried to go (INAUDIBLE). It's been hard. But I smashed the window and the firings just keep going. When I just jump in from the fire that was (INAUDIBLE).
There's like another door in the mosque. They see the people are they're shooting from -- inside the mosque. And at that time, I jump in then evade. They just keep firing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOWELL: That's just one example of a person you know, who was able to get out of the way with all of this. Let's bring in our Anna Coren. Anna has been following this in our Hong Kong newsroom to get a sense. Anna, have you seen or come across any new information to share?
[01:05:04] ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, George and Natalie, I've watched that 17 minute video that the gunman -- he streamed live on Facebook and it is one of the most horrendous things that I have ever seen in my entire career. It's something that nobody wants to see.
But I can tell you now that the death toll is many more than the nine people that the New Zealand journalist was reporting. There would have to be dozens, dozens that are dead. Let me talk you through this video. I don't want to go into too much graphic detail to disturb viewers but you see this gunman. He is a white young man. He is driving to the mosque. We presume that's the Deans Avenue mosque, that large mosque which had some 300 people perhaps inside it.
He grabs these semi-automatic weapons from his car. He walks into the mosque. He is firing as soon as he walks within the gates. He is firing towards the mosque. He walks into that mosque and he is just mowing down every single person that he can see.
He moves into what looks like a corridor. He reloads. He walks back out, continues to fire. These people are lying down. They are screaming. They are moaning. They are crying out for help. He then walks out of the mosque and out onto the pavement. He fires in one direction just shooting random people. He fires in the other direction shooting more random people.
He returns to his car, gets another gun, walks back very calmly back into the mosque and continues to fire. He is making sure that every single person who is lying down in that mosque is dead. He goes up to them at close point and executes every single one of them.
He then walks out. He continues to fire on the pavement. There is a woman standing there. He shoots her from a distance. He then walks up and kills her at close range. He then calmly gets into his car and drives off. And you can hear him talking, you can hear him laughing. You can hear the sirens.
The police sirens obviously driving towards the mosque. He is headed then in another direction. But I can tell you that having seen this, it is one of the most horrendous things that I have ever seen. It was like watching a video game. Somebody just going up and coldly, calculatingly just killing each of these people. There are multiple, multiple fatalities and that is just at Deans Avenue.
ALLEN: We can tell you've been affected by watching this. I can't imagine -- I don't want to see it myself but -- and the thing about it, Anna, is this happened in a country that's never seen anything like this before. And to have such a heinous act now that's affected so many people.
COREN: New Zealand is such a loving, welcoming place. It's such an open society. We heard from Jacinda Ardern, the prime minister earlier. She was in Nairobi, Kenya at a U.N. conference. She's obviously making her way back to New Zealanders as quickly as possible. And she said migrants are welcome. New Zealand's immigration policies is one that is -- that is
welcoming. You know, you compare that to Australia which is -- which is so much harsher. New Zealand is welcoming. They want these migrants to be a part of their community and that's what she says. These people, you are part f our society. You are part of now in New Zealand. The person who perpetrated these murderous acts, he is not.
Now, there are reports that he is an Australian citizen, not a New Zealand citizen. We're obviously waiting to hear from police to confirm the nationality. But in this video you see from the rearview mirror it is a white man, aged in his 20s, maybe his 30s. His accent certainly sounds Australian. It could be New Zealand but you are talking about a white man who obviously had a very warped idea as to how the day would pan out.
We don't know if he is that the person who police have apprehended. We are now understanding that the four people have been taken into custody, three men and one woman but that shooting rampage went on for at least six minutes. That is how long he was firing his weapon.
Now, we should probably listen to what Jacinta Ardern, the Prime Minister of New Zealand had to say, but she describes it as one of the most horrendous days that New Zealand has ever witnessed.
HOWELL: Anna --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACINTA ARDERN, PRIME MINISTER, NEW ZEALAND: People can see images live from Christchurch. It will be obvious to them. This is a significant event and I can tell you now, this is and will be one of New Zealand's darkest days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COREN: So that was Jacinda Ardern, the Prime Minister of New Zealand speaking to the press probably over an hour ago. She's obviously learning of this situation. We don't know whether she had actually seen that 17-minute video that this gunman, he streamed live. He was wearing a helmet camera as he walked into the mosque.
It goes for 17 minutes. But I can tell you now, we looked at it thoroughly, and the shooting rampage it goes for four, six minutes and there are multiple, multiple people who are dead on the ground.
[01:10:29] ALLEN: And Anna, is there any information as how this person or if -- we assume this person has been called. We know that four people are in custody how police were able to apprehend them.
COREN: Natalie, I don't have that information at this stage. You would have to assume that the amount of gunfire that was going on, that it would have alerted so many people in that neighborhood. The police would have had to have been called immediately. It took police I would say roughly 12 minutes to get to the scene if I'm going off -- actually, I beg your pardon, no, it would have taken police six minutes, six minutes to get to the scene. From the time that he started shooting, a bit longer six to seven,
eight minutes because he is that in his car and he is driving away and then you hear the sirens passing him heading towards the mosque. I should also mention George and Natalie that as he is driving, he is firing outside the car. He actually fires through the windscreen, and then he fires out the window.
The window is blown to pieces. He is just randomly shooting people. But then he stops at a crossing and allows these pedestrians to walk past and then beeps his horn. I mean, this is just a deranged, deranged individual.
HOWELL: That is just --
ALLEN: Just hearing a report, Anna, there are no words. There are no words.
HOWELL: Anna, so you know, TVNZ has confirmed nine fatalities but look, according to what you have seen, clearly as you point out, there could be multiple, multiple fatalities. We will stay in touch with you. Take care. Take a moment. But thank you for updating us and watching that awful video giving us a sense of what happened there. Thank you.
COREN: I should say, George, if I can just before you go, I think what I found so very disturbing was that if these people inside that mosque had fallen to the ground, as you've heard so many people and others in scenarios where there's an active shooting site where people will just collapse to play dead, if you like, there was no chance of them ever getting out of that mosque alive because he walked back in there and made sure every single one of them was dead.
HOWELL: Anna Coren, thank you for being with us.
ALLEN: Thank you, Anna.
HOWELL: Let's now bring in Peter Bradley. Peter is the CEO of St. Johns Ambulance in New Zealand. And Peter, given what we've heard from Anna Coren, clearly this is an awful day in New Zealand.
PETER BRADLEY, CEO, ST. JOHNS AMBULANCE (via telephone): Yes, it is an awful day George in New Zealand. And Christchurch already suffering from the series earthquakes of seven years ago, but yes, we were called to a call of multiple shootings at 1:53 New Zealand time and we had ambulances on the scene within I'm not sure, minutes and you know, what a terrible situation, a scenario for the emergency service responders to come across when they arrived.
And over the preceding hours, we've transported dozens of patients to hospitals and there's clearly a number of -- a number of fatalities. Injuries ranging from gunshot wounds to the head, and face, and arms, legs, and torso, and soft tissue injuries as people trying to escape and make their -- make their escape.
We had them over 20 ambulances responded, over 50 to 60 ambulance staff involved on the scene. And yes, all patients taken to the Christchurch emergency departments where they're now being treated in ICU and we're about -- they're about to review if any of those patients require transports over the hospitals to relieve some pressure on a very, very hard working day in Christchurch.
ALLEN: Do you have any sense, Peter, of the number of people that were injured here. We just heard a chilling report from our reporter out of Hong Kong who saw the video that unfortunately circulated on social media about there being so many people shot in that mosque. What are you hearing?
BRADLEY: Well, the exact numbers aren't clear, as you might appreciate. The serious patients were transported directly by ambulance and for that, it's somewhere around the 50 mark. But of course, we have patients who self-presented to the emergency departments and patients who went to local medical centers.
So scores of patients one way or the other would have been treated and then transported to for treatment. So, a large numbers and some very, very serious, along with the people who've sadly passed away. And a number of people with very, very serious gunshot wounds.
[01:15:15] HOWELL: Peter just to get a sense of the timeline, I mean, so, how long would you say this violence there, the shooting play -- played out?
BRADLEY: It's hard to say because it was one of those things where it feels like a long time when you're involved in it. But often, it happens very quickly. I wouldn't want to comment on how long it played out over. But clearly, it was -- you know, local time around 2:00 p.m., and we had people on the scene pretty quickly.
But over there, it was we know, over an hour. So, who knows but the police, usually on police were best place to answer that. Of course, it was -- it was an evolving situation. So, we have people -- you know, it was very, very chaotic for the first hour or so, as you can appreciate. So, pretty hard to get timelines on this really.
ALLEN: We understand, Peter. But you telling us maybe upwards of 50 people transported by your services there. And we keep talking about the fact that nothing like this has ever happened in this country. And you certainly, Christchurch has been dealing with other things, the wildfires and earthquakes, and now this. How would you describe the feeling there after something like this?
BRADLEY: Well, I was seeing ambulance service prior to coming back to New Zealand. And so, I personally went through a number of terrorist attacks as chief executive over there. And so, returning to New Zealand, the little did I think that we'd ever see a similar scenario in this beautiful country of ours.
So, yes, it's been -- it's an absolute tragedy and shocking to everyone all five million others that live in this beautiful place.
ALLEN: We appreciate your joining us. We know, will be a challenging time and we appreciate all that to you and your team did there to help people. BRADLEY: Thank you.
ALLEN: Peter Bradley, for us there in Christchurch. So, again, we continue to hear for people that responded. We've heard from the police and we're hearing from people that witnessed this mass shooting that happened in two mosques.
A short time ago, we heard from a witness who was inside one of the mosques as the shooting started period is.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MOHAN IBN IBRAHIM, WITNESS TO MOSQUE SHOOTING: I was actually praying inside the mosque. Like, I was just -- I was inside of the mosque. And it's such a big mosque. And what happened like I don't know, 1:40-45, there are there like gun firing sound was coming from the backside because I was quite excited.
So, what happened is like there's a barricade in the middle. So, if somebody gets in touch by using the main door, they have to come inside like for -- and they have to walk like maybe one minute.
So, what happened is like there was another door. Two door on the left, left side and the right side. So, when I heard that there's a might like the sound is coming. And I thought, possible, I thought maybe it's some electrical circuits -- something like that.
And then, it was like continuously happening. So, on the -- and on the right side, people were just coming out of the mosque by using that door -- on the right side door. And all you are just running towards the back side.
And there was a barricade -- was there, backside. While we had to jump out of the wall, and still we were like hearing the sound of the gun. It was continuously shooting for maybe 10 to -- 10 to 15minutes.
And later on, we used the backside and then came out on the other street. And since then, the police -- we have -- we call to the police and went to life. And when I came to the street, I saw that one person got the shoot on his chest. An ambulance came and the police came there. Doctor was taken care of him. So, that time I went to live on Facebook to explain actually what's happening.
And one more sad thing is like -- it does not only happen to this mosque, there the two mosques in the -- in the Christchurch area. Into a two suburb. So, one have one in the Riccarton, Deans Avenue.
And I call to my other friends who -- you know, who went to prayer to the other mosque, and we asked them they said the same thing happen here as well. And they told me like five people died out there in that mosque.
And I have seen on my naked eye which is three, three people died on. But they were like on the street. And I couldn't contact two of my friends who are inside the mosque as well. That's what I saw.
HOWELL: Mohan Ibrahim --
IBRAHIM: And later on, the lots of police and ambulance came and they had allow us to go inside the mosque. All -- I mean, to get close to it.
HOWELL: Mohan Ibrahim is on the phone with us. Sharing a story of survival. Mohan, you were able to escape this. And Mohan, I just want to make sure that I understand, you say that this went on for some 15 minutes, is that correct?
[01:20:10] IBRAHIM: About -- it would be minimum of 10 minutes.
HOWELL: Oh, gosh. And you were able to get out and escape. You say that you saw people who certainly were --
(CROSSTALK)
IBRAHIM: Yes, I couldn't see them. I couldn't see them because -- you know, it's -- so, on later on, like, I heard like -- you know, there was there was a mob people shooter. And those gun sound was so loud. And when I came to the street from the most maybe, you could say 780 -- 800 millimeter, I still heard this sound.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOWELL: That was Mohan Ibrahim. I spoke with him a couple of hours ago, this after he escaped this terrible situation in the al Noor mosque, this on Deans Avenue in Christchurch, New Zealand.
And I'm still bothered, to say the least by our correspondent Anna Coren's reporting watching this video that investigators have asked, social platforms to take down. But from her description, there could be many, many, many people killed in this situation. Stand by, we'll be right back after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ALLEN: Thank you for staying with us. We continue to follow the breaking news from Christchurch, New Zealand mass shootings at two different mosques with multiple fatalities.
Police say they don't have a precise number but the death toll is significant. Police say, three men and one woman have been arrested but they caution there could still be others at large and the danger might not be over including cars rigged with explosives because we've already seen that.
HOWELL: The exact number of casualties is still unknown. However, again, hearing from our correspondent who apparently saw a video. That was live-streamed. If you can believe it or not, the number, again, maybe very high quite significant.
A police commissioner confirms the gruesome video exists of the attacks. He's asking the public not to share it. Don't share that video on social media. Police want everyone there in Christchurch to avoid the downtown area. New Zealand's prime minister, says that this is the darkest days -- one of the darkest days in that country's history.
ALLEN: And witnesses continue to come forward to tell their horrifying experience that this man did not want to be identified by name, but here is his story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[01:25:02] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was thinking that he must run out -- he must run out of bullets. So, what I did was basically waiting for that and praying to God, "Oh, God, please, let this gun run out of bullets.
And when it stop, first time I went, but one guy was heading out just beside a wall. And what he did was he told me, "no." And I will back again where I was. And next thing, the guy came and shoot this guy who told me "you have to get out." There was a sad moment and I know that guy. And he shoot him straight in the chest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOWELL: Wow. Let's talk more about this now with a CNN law enforcement analyst Josh Campbell. Josh is staying with us here live in Washington, D.C. And Josh, look, again, so we just heard that eyewitness account. We understand at this point, schools have released students back to parents. That's some good news. We know that area has been saturated with law enforcement.
And Josh, I want to bring up this video that our correspondent just explained this video -- disgusting video will be certainly key in this investigation.
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, indeed. And we can tell in reading, the tea leaves here that the fact that you now have a lockdown that's been lifted. You now have resources that are -- you know, moving away from this mass blanking of the city and moving to the actual locations.
That gives us a sense that the emergent phase of this appears to be over. Again, the investigators are continuing to conduct an investigation. They haven't yet given us a signal that they're confident that there are no additional shooters. So, that's not to say that there's not a significant investigative aspect that remains. But the fact that they're now bringing resources and lifting that lockdown, again, at least, signals that -- at least, in their mind, there's not an ongoing threat as of this time.
Now, with this investigation, there are two key aspects here. You know, we want to know the "what", and we want to know the "why". The first of what, they need to know what exactly happened, who was involved?
Now that they have, you know, four people in custody, there's a presumable sources of information that may be able to illustrate or illuminate this network. Or there other people that are still out there that may have known what was happening. That will all be part of that investigation.
Then, obviously, all of us want to know the why. Why did these depraved individuals do what they did today. Go to this location, and take, you know, massive loss of life.
And even as we sit here and try to reconstruct and determine what happened and why? You have so many grieving, you know, family members out there right now that are want that know exactly what happened to their family members they haven't received notice, so far, as we know at this point began.
Just so many -- so many aspects of this investigation that investigators will have to deal with this going to be a resource incentive, it's going to continue for quite some time.
ALLEN: And I want to ask you, Josh. You talked about the why and the what, what about the how? And that this is a country where guns are illegal. You have to get a license for a rifle for -- to hunt.
But somehow, more than one or two people were able to coordinate this and carry this out. And what will could police be looking for in that aspect to the investigation?
CAMPBELL: Yes, so in any type of major incident, or major investigation, law enforcement actually divided up into teams. And so, each team will focus on different aspects. You'll have a communications team, for example, which will be digging into social media phones, you know, determining exactly how these people were communicating. You'll have an interview team, that's interviewing them.
And then, as you mentioned, you'll have a team that's looking at the weaponry. How, how did they get access to these weapons? Where did they come from? Did they bring them in into the country? We've heard reports, at least, one of the subjects is respectively an Australian citizen. Did they bring the weapons in? Do they get them locally? Where did they come from?
And then, all -- you know, we've been talking about this level of sophistication. We heard from the police commissioner indicating that there were IED's. Improvise Explosive Devices that were recovered as part of this arrest effort. That's an additional degree of sophistication.
You know, you can go online now, unfortunately, and find out how to make these devices. But the fact that they had them shows that they had -- you know, the intent to gather the ingredients to put these devices together, question will remain, do they test them? Is there a place out there, a weapons cache? The investigators now need to find.
Again, so many aspects of this. We just don't know at this point. But the moment that we went from one suspect to now possibly four, again, just moves us into an incredible realm a degree of investigative resources, and -- you know, magnitude we didn't quite expect, but that's where police authorities are right now. HOWELL: Josh, again, just quickly, here's for people that police have identified and certainly are questioning. But the concern about others that may still be at large, where do you think investigators are with that?
CAMPBELL: So, it's going to depend on what authorities are able to glean from the actual subjects. The arrestees, are they talking or they providing additional information? Another key source of information will be, witnesses. Do they see additional people at these two locations, the two mosques that perhaps are in custody?
As we mentioned, you know, there'll be also technical coverage of these locations. CCTV, for example. Other witnesses that may have been outside that maybe saw someone shooting or someone fleeing. All that will be -- those will be leads that will be coming into the command center that authorities will set up both on the scene location, and then, at the greater headquarters of authorities there in Christchurch.
[01:29:58]
Again they'll take all these leads, they'll sort through again, try to figure out is it four, is it more than four. I doubt we're going to hear that any time soon -- that all clear or that sense of confidence from law enforcement that they've rolled up the network.
But again, this will be part investigation only. It takes one additional tip that they get either from social media or, you know, a member of the public for them to move the investigation in an entirely different direction.
I will say that right now this is the point also in time where authorities will be appealing to the public. If you know something, provide that information. That's going to be key to this investigation.
NATALIE ALLEN, CNN ANCHOR: Right. And some 400,000 people in this city living through this right now.
Josh Campbell -- we appreciate your expertise, thank you so much.
CAMPBELL: Thank you.
ALLEN: Stay with CNN. We will continue this breaking news in a moment.
Multiple fatalities in shootings at two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GEORGE HOWELL, CNN ANCHOR: We continue following the breaking news this hour in Christchurch, New Zealand.
I am George Howell.
ALLEN: And I'm Natalie Allen. Thank you for being with us.
Again, we continue to follow the situation in Christchurch. This is ongoing now for our several hours.
Police say there are multiple fatalities and shootings at two mosques in the city. Broadcaster TVNZ reporting nine people have been killed. The police are calling the death toll significant.
At least four people are in custody, three men and one woman.
HOWELL: The Police Commissioner Mike Bush also said the police have disarmed several vehicles with IED. They had improvised explosive devices on them.
Authorities are also warning Muslims to avoid mosques for the rest of the night at this point. A lockdown on all schools ha now been lifted. That shows some optimism that police have a better sense of -- handle on that area, but people are still being asked to avoid the downtown area.
And we're hearing from a witness who heard the gunshots. Here's how he described it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
It was around 1:45, I was stopped and I heard the big sound of a gun, and the second shot I ran. A lot of people were sitting on the floor. A gun was behind (ph) the door. I ran behind the mosque.
And I sat behind the (INAUDIBLE) I rang for the police and the police took a long time. So I climb the wall.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ALLEN: The people that got out are so very, very fortunate because as we've heard it was a chilling scene inside where this gunman was not going to let anyone leave alive.
[01:35:04] We also heard from Jacinda Ardern, the prime minister of New Zealand. She was in Nairobi, Kenya for a U.N. conference when news of the shooting broke. She is flying back now but she gave a news conference before taking off.
Here's what she had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACINDA ARDERN, PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND: This is one of New Zealand's darkest days. Clearly what has happened here is an extraordinary and unprecedented act of violence.
Many of those who will have been directly affected by the shooting may be migrants to New Zealand. They may even be refugees here. They have chosen to make New Zealand their home and it is their home. They are us. The person who has perpetuated this violence has no place in New Zealand. There is no place in New Zealand for such acts of extreme and unprecedented violence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOWELL: Jacinda Ardern at this point returning to a country that has certainly been shocked by this terrible act of violence that has played out. And I want to get a better handle on what's happening on the ground now by brining in Chris Lynch. Chris has been with us for several hours now. Chris with Newstalk ZB Radio in Christchurch.
Chris -- from the very start you have shared with us some details of the early reporting on this. It's all borne out and we want to get a sense of where things stand now from what you're seeing and what you have heard.
CHRIS LYNCH, NEWZTALK ZB RADIO (via telephone): Well, there is a sense of, I don't know if optimism is right word, but there is a feeling that the police have got who they need. Having said that though, they are still (INAUDIBLE) that he is surrounded by police as they continue with the bomb squad operation to make sure the setting is safe.
(INAUDIBLE) The two shooting locations now are indeed in that Christchurch central location and the one in Linwood Avenue. Of course, both locations remain in total lockdown.
And as you've been reporting too, what is just heartbreaking here is there have been a number of fatalities and the word police -- Christchurch police are using is "significant". And that's an absolutely real concern.
Some good news as you've been saying, four people -- three men and a woman have been taken into their custody. They are speaking with those people and in an unprecedented move by the New Zealand police, they've put out a statement urging people not to share social media videos that alleges of the gunmen carrying out this mix (ph) in the city.
Now, I have chosen not to watch it. I've just seen the first bit a bit but it does look graphic.
And I've to tell you something too, you know. I'm from little old Christchurch, New Zealand but you know, the country at the bottom of the world -- it's the sort of thing that we look to (ph) something to happen in a big continent, your own or places like Europe.
But we have been -- you know, we often think of ourselves as so geographically isolated from the trouble that surrounds the globe -- in this global unrest if you like that it's just sad to think those days now, here in little old Christchurch are behind us.
And I think as security analyst Paul Buchanan (ph) who was speaking to me just moments ago. He put it quite interestingly. He said New Zealand has been inflicted with the virus of homicidal politics, by extremism. There hasn't been big enough focus in our intelligence agencies.
And he was saying we have now been inflicted by this virus of confrontational to the point of homicidal politics that we see all too often in the U.S. and Europe. And now come home to us.
Because we have been seen as a country that's been isolated. Isolated from the madness that we see around the globe. But I'm fortunately today, as I speak to you, I'm in shock to say that is simply not the case anymore.
ALLEN: We understand that -- Chris. And we understand so many people in shock and so many people waiting to hear about their loved ones because police have not released how many people died. They have not ID'd the victims so, so many people don't know if their loved ones are coming home or are they ok.
LYNCH: Right.
ALLEN: I want to talk with you about also the fact that they did arrest four people according to the heinous video that some have seen, you could see what this person was shooting so perhaps that helped police apprehend him. But is there any more information about how those arrests went down and if any police officers were hurt as that played out?
LYNCH: No. My understanding is no police officer was injured. And the capture of these -- I don't know -- can I call them terrorists because that's what they are. I guess they are terrorists, aren't they.
But the police commissioner has been speaking to media just recently saying there have been some absolute acts of bravery in the arrest of these attackers. He didn't go into too much details but they were his words, "absolute acts of bravery".
[01:40:02] There have been some reports of some of the offenders being tackled to the ground, unconfirmed at this stage. There is (INAUDIBLE) and as you can imagine, social media video that's circulating of police with the offenders on this.
But I think it's quite to safe to say that there is sort of a sense of -- there is a sense of calm across Christchurch now. I think when we here reporters of the lock downs of the schools have been removed. There has been (INAUDIBLE) a lot of parents that's now trying to see them at the end here. And a lot of parents are trying to get to their kids to take them home but unfortunately there is still a mini street across scene that is still cordoned off by police.
So that's the reporting (ph) now. You've got kids that have been released from school because the lock down has finished but they can't get to their parents because of all the cordoned streets across the city. That I think it is safe to say I think police have got who they need.
HOWELL: Chris Lynch -- we appreciate you being with us. Thank you for all the -- yes, the updates and the reporting. We will stay in touch with you as you learn more.
We have the prime minister of New Zealand speaking right now. Let's listen in live.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARDERN: -- involved in this incident as well. And police will be giving more details as they can the a situation unfolds.
Whilst I cannot give any confirmation at this stage around fatalities and casualties what I can say is that it is clear that this is one of New Zealand darkest days.
Clearly what has happened here is an extraordinary and unprecedented act of violence. Many of those who will have been directly affected by the shooting maybe migrants to New Zealand. They may even be refugees here. They have chosen to make New Zealand their home. And it is their home. They are us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOWELL: And just to point out that is actually from earlier the Prime Minister describing this is one of the darkest days in New Zealand.
We will of course continue to monitor the prime minister traveling back to her country. That country in a great deal of shock this day.
Stay with us. We'll be right back after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ALLEN: Welcome back.
If you're just joining us, this is three hours we've been here covering this breaking news, this horrible story out of Christchurch, New Zealand.
[01:45:01] Mass shootings at two different mosques with multiple fatalities. The number significant, according to police. They don't have a precise number but again, that's how they're terming it.
Broadcaster TV New Zealand reporting at least nine people had been killed. We have a reporter indicating that that number will probably be much higher.
Police say three men and one woman have been arrested. So there are four people under arrest here. But they caution there could still be others at large. And the danger might not be over because they have also recovered cars that were rigged with explosives.
And one of the alleged gunmen posted a long anti-immigrant, anti- Muslim manifesto, some 87-page -- excuse me -- 37-page manifesto I believe on social media before the attacks. It was not signed.
HOWELL: The police commissioner confirms the gruesome video does exist of the attacks. Of course, that will be key evidence, this disgusting video and is asking the public not to share it on social media. That's important.
Police want people to avoid the downtown area. And New Zealand's Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says that this is one of the darkest days in that country's history.
ALLEN: Scott brown IS the U.S. Ambassador to New Zealand. He expressed his condolences in a tweet.
HOWELL: The ambassador wrote this, quote, "We're heartbroken over the events in Christchurch today. We stand with our Kiwi friends and neighbors. And our prayers are with you."
Let's bring in Steve Moore. Steve joins us in Los Angeles. Steve is a CNN law enforcement analyst and retired FBI special agent.
Steve -- just given this information that we know at this point, that four people are now in custody and there's a possibility that there could be others that investigators are looked for. What do you take away from the investigation at this point?
STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, usually when you get some type of attack like this and you have a single individual or at the most two individuals, you know it's very insular. You don't have a huge organization involved in this.
The minute it gets away from say one or two people, you are talking a cellular organization. So I believe that we are in the early stages of finding out who is involved in this.
And the way this was planned, the way this was set up, and the method of the attack leads me to believe that there was casing, that there was training for this, there may have been run throughs at other locations.
This shows every sign of a group of people taking this seriously and I -- that sounds horrible to say, but what I mean by that is they were looking at this like a military operation.
You can't that without having lots of people involved in this, or at least lots of people being aware of that. For instance, the weapons. Those weapons are not legal to own in New Zealand unless the police have vetted you. I'm sure the police did not vet these people.
So you have to start one phase of the operation is who gave these weapons to them? And so this is going to go for a long time, and it's going to go deeper than people think, I believe.
ALLEN: Yes, because as we've been saying over and over again, this is a very peaceful country. They do not expect anything like this to happen there, you know. The question is why here, why New Zealand?
We have gotten one report that one of those taken into custody is Australian. So I want to ask you also Steve -- talking about where they got the guns and such and how they got into this country. It's interesting how they plan such a massive attack in a country where guns aren't legal. And what might have tipped off police to something like this, or could have in a country where you just have never seen anything like this happen?
MOORE: Well, first of all, you know, it doesn't matter how peaceful the country is. Nobody is immune from nationalist sickos or people with mental illness -- that's number one.
Number two, it would surprised the average person how easy it is to get a gun. I had one guy who went in and did a mass shooting and he was a felon and he couldn't legally own a gun. He got himself an Uzi. You know how? He ordered it from China. They sent it through the mail.
So the way you can start finding these things is determining whether you have the desire and the determination to start screening mail for something like this. I mean we have learned through prohibition, through the war on drugs, through everything that unless you are willing to put immense amount of resources into something, prohibition is simply only as good as its enforcement.
[01:50:00] HOWELL: Steve, you know, one thing that comes to mind for me, and I'm thinking back to the Pulse Nightclub shooting here in the United States.
We were on set covering that story when it happened that night. and I remember the next day being there in Orlando. And there were still families that did not know where their loved ones were, whether their loved ones were alive, injured, so on and so forth.
I'm curious to ask you the process of identifying the people. We don't know a number yet, but it seems that number will be high. Identifying people that have been killed -- that could take days.
MOORE: Yes, it could. And you know, from my experience this is the hardest part of one of these crimes, at least for the investigators who are assigned to this.
I've had parents literally coming across, you know, police lines and running past us to where they had to be detained because, you know, you have to do this in an orderly fashion or nobody will know for a long time.
So there are going to be some people out there who are going to be in a horrible position of wondering what happened to their loved ones. And it is not going to be over by morning.
So it is going to be tough but you have to make sure -- you cannot ever give the wrong information out on these things. And it's been done so you can't allow it to happen which means the extra care that is involved because of the implications of being wrong actually lengthens the process but it's necessary.
ALLEN: And we did talk with someone from the ambulance association who said they believe they transported upwards of 50 people. That was his guestimate that tells you what numbers we could be dealing with here.
And I want to ask you, you know, the chief, the police commissioner implored the public not to watch the social media video of this mass shooting playing out. This sick person who did this live streaming it from a helmet-cam just adds another horrendous heinous layer to what the evil that was played out here and the lengths that these people will go to get attention for what they're doing. Can you talk to that aspect of this?
MOORE: First of all this is extremely disturbing because now it's set another bar. And you know how people who want to do these mass shootings always try and outdo the next one. So I would suspect that the next copycat we have whether it's a copycat of this attack or a copycat of another attack, the new thing is going to be live streaming it. So we have to start working on that.
And what I would tell the public is this, do you want to help terrorists? Because if you do, sharing this video is exactly how you do it. You weren't there to load his gun so you might as well -- might as well share the video. Do not share the video or you are part of this.
HOWELL: You know that is a good message to pass along -- Steve. And again authorities are saying don't share the videos. I just don't understand why people would.
Steve -- thanks for being with us.
ALLEN: We appreciate it -- always appreciate your expertise -- Steve. Thank you.
HOWELL: We'll be right back after the break. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[01:54:59] HOWELL: We continue following the breaking news from Christchurch, New Zealand.
Police there say there are multiple fatalities in shootings at two different mosques in the city. Police called the death toll significant. At least four people are in custody, three men and one woman.
ALLEN: Commissioner Mike Bush with the police there also police have disarmed several vehicles with improvised explosive devices attached. And authorities continue to tell Muslims to avoid mosques for the rest of the evening. But people are being asked to avoid as well the downtown area.
Most of Christchurch, as you can imagine is just in shock and doing their best to stay safe until police absolutely come out and say they believe that the danger is over. We haven't heard that yet form them.
HOWELL: We want to share this incredibly disturbing aspect of the story that the gunman -- one gunman was wearing a body camera as he opened fire at a mosque and he live streamed the shooting on social media.
ALLEN: Highly, highly disturbing. Facebook and Twitter have now taken down that horrific video. One witness described what he saw there at the mosque.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The police was with me on the telephone. They asked this (INAUDIBLE) and give them the report. And tell to the police come in here. The police come in I saw one gunmen hit the floor and police squad were stopping here. There are a lot of people that were injured.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOWELL: And we are also hearing from the mayor of Christchurch who gave an update earlier warning people there to stay alert saying because the situation is still active, listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LIANNE DALZIEL, CHRISTCHURCH MAYOR: I would never believe that I would be standing in front of a camera and talking to the people of Christchurch about the shocking incident that has affected us all. The city remains in lockdown. And it is important that if people are inside that they stay inside. Don't venture out. This is still an active situation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOWELL: Of course, we will continue to follow this story, an active situation that according to the mayor of Christchurch. And we will learn in the coming days for sure how many people may have been killed in this situation.
Thank you for being with us. I'm George Howell.
ALLEN: And I'm Natalie Allen. We'll have much more for you after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
