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Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin

More Fallout For People Involved In The Huge College Admissions Cheating Scandal; U.S. Grounding Boeing 737 MAX Planes. Aired: 3:30-4a ET

Aired March 15, 2019 - 03:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, ANCHOR, CNN: But I don't know, does it seem like the President wanted to obstruct in some way?

JENNIFER RODGERS, LEGAL ANALYST, CNN: Well, certainly, we know the President from his public statements and tweets that he wanted to fix things for himself, right, so I don't know if there's any question that he had a very strong urge and desire to fix these problems. He tried to fire Mueller knowing all sorts of things that he's done.

So, yes, no question about that. The question is how far did he go? What did he actually do as far as giving orders that could then potentially give rise to an obstruction of justice claim?

MICHAEL D'ANTONIO, AUTHOR: Well, that does remind you of Michael Cohen saying he always speaks in code. He doesn't have to tell you what he wants to have happen. He just needs to tell you he's unhappy and wished things were different.

LEMON: It's very mob like if true.

D'ANTONIO: Oh, you think?

LEMON: What did you have for dinner? Nails? What is going on? You're in rare form tonight.

D'ANTONIO: Come, this guys, they act like they're on an episode of "The Sopranos." And you don't have to actually have real contact with mobsters to get what's going on here.

LEMON: After the show, we'll go to the Bada-Bing.

D'ANTONIO: Okay.

LEMON: All right, thank you both. I appreciate it. More fallout tonight for the people involved in the huge college admissions cheating scandal, but will there be any change to the system that let all of this happen?

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[03:35:00]

LEMON: Fallout spreading tonight in a massive college admissions cheating scandal. Actress Lori Loughlin appeared in Federal court in Los Angeles today. She is charged with conspiracy to commit fraud, accused of paying $500,000.00 in bribes to have her daughters designated as recruits for the University of Southern California crew team, even though they did not actually row crew.

She was released on a million dollars bond and William Rick Singer who has pleaded guilty to the scam posted videos on YouTube marketing his services. BuzzFeed found this. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK SINGER, COLLEGE ADMISSIONS ADVISER: We created an amazing game plan so that she could have success. She went off to a four-year school, she got a job in Chicago, that led to going to New York City, that led to getting a Masters, that led to moving up the ladder, and now she's one of the most successful women in the country in advertising and PR.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, I want to bring in now "The Atlantic's" Jemele Hill and also David Callahan, the author of "The Cheating Culture: Why More Americans are Doing Wrong to Get Ahead." I'm so glad I didn't call you David Chalian. We have a David Challian here and it's just stuck in my brain.

So good evening to you. David, so I am going to start with you. Your book is called The Cheating Culture: Why More Americans are Doing Wrong to Get Ahead." The folks involved in this scandal are already wealthy. They are successful. What compels them to cheat like they did? They already had advantages.

DAVID CALLAHAN, AUTHOR: Well, I think this fits within a pattern of arrogance at the very top of our society. A lot of people who are very wealthy think that they can live by a separate set of rules, and we've been seeing this for years and, you know, the broader picture here is that one institution after another in U.S. society is corrupt.

A big pharma under investigation for opioids, scandal after scandal in the upper reaches of sports. Banks in constant trouble. Thousands of Americans, wealthy Americans with illegal offshore bank accounts.

So, you know, there's nothing really surprising here. It's just kind of another wrinkle on the same story, which is people breaking the rules thinking that they live in a separate moral reality, and too often they never get caught. They get a slap on the wrist at most, and in this case things turned out differently.

LEMON: So Jemele, it's hard to look at what happened here and not see how opportunity and advantage in this country are linked to race. Talk to me about the systematic reasons why people of color don't even start on a level playing field when it comes to getting a good education?

JEMELE HILL, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: Yes, I mean, that's the other part of this inequity that we have to address, is that we act like the problem start, once they are college bound. The problems start long before that, when it's been proven through study after study that people of color receive an education that is not on par with most white people in this country. That is just a fact across the board.

And I think the other thing we have to look at is if you're a person of color and you see a story like this, and we've all been on college campuses. I mean this certainly happened to me when I went to Michigan State where as soon as you're interacting with other students, white students, they're trying to figure out how did you get here? How did you get into this particular college?

And I imagine especially that's the case at elite colleges. So people of color often have their qualifications doubted. They're often given treatment that suggests that they don't belong there.

They're told they're just part of some quota system and we know quotas are illegal. And so to see this kind of story that there are people buying their way into college, using advantages that frankly with their money and connections, they didn't have to do anything illegal anyway.

To see this for people of color just reinforces some of the things that we've already known and felt. This is the banner headline of why our parents if you're black or a person of color, why you are always told you have to be twice as good to get half as much.

LEMON: David, the FBI says that they uncovered what they believe to be a rigged system. What happens when everyone believes a system is rigged and, you know, there's a collapse of collective norms? It seems to be happening in this country right now with a lot of things. Is everybody cheating? Why shouldn't I cheat?

CALLAHAN: Well, yes, exactly. And people see all the rot at the top and they say, "Hey, why should I be the chump who dots every I and crosses every T when I'm struggling to get ahead?" There's a lot of cheating among that squeezed middle.

[03:40:09]

CALLAHAN: And even among upper class people who feel like they are -- upper middle class people feel like they're struggling. And, you know, the role models in society are not so great, right? Whether it's Lance Armstrong or the person who now sits in the White House.

LEMON: Well, it's also interesting, too, Jemele, when you talk about this -- when you talk about legacy, right? And there are a lot of people in our society, especially people of color and even poorer whites who didn't have a chance to go to college.

And so that whole legacy thing is not a part of it. There's one way they have a leg up especially people who are affluent and they don't get a chance to say just because I went to -- you know, my grandfather or someone went to this school, I get to go. That is in essence part of privilege.

HILL: Yes, I mean, I think what this entire story allows for people who didn't know because there are many of us that always suspected or knew from first-hand experience or at least suspected that this was the case, is that it sort of gives you a window into how an old boys' club so to speak is created.

I mean, we're talking about people who have the ears and the influence and the access to people making some just incredibly powerful decisions about their lives.

I mean to read this story today that Lori Loughlin's daughter, that she found out the news while she was on out on a yacht, right, with the USC Board of Trustees Chairman.

LEMON: You can't beat this stuff. You can't write this.

HILL: I'm just like, you know, what I'm saying, like how many students get to go on spring break with somebody in that kind of position? So it just shows how much people of color are on the outside looking in.

LEMON: Can I ask you something quickly because I want to ask this and get one more to David if I have a chance. But athletic departments, because you come from the sports world. Athletic departments of colleges have a long-standing history of influence and power over the admissions process.

Clearly there was a massive breakdown in these schools for these kids who never even played a sport to get a scholarship. Do we need to rethink the role that sports play in admissions?

HILL: No, I mean, I don't think that we have to rethink the entire thing, I mean, although there's something incredibly lame about people taking mock photos of themselves, supposedly playing sports to get this all done. I don't think we need to rethink it from that standpoint. There are certainly a lot of other standpoints we need to rethink the role that athletics plays especially when we look at pay for play and how you have an entire network of free labor that the colleges are getting.

But, you know, I think what we will see is that there are just loopholes in every particular system and as much as athletics and sports, as you know, Don, often likes to champion the fact that this is a meritocracy and this is all about whoever is the most fit, the most competitive, the best, who can run the fastest and jump the highest, that that's how you wind up getting these scholarships, when you see that for some people it's just the interest into getting something that they did not deserve.

LEMON: David, I am out of time, but quickly, I think I said there's more to come. Do you believe there's more to come, and I'm sure there's some parents out there who are like, "Oh, did I cross the line?"

CALLAHAN: Yes, look, the good news here is that finally some cheaters at the top are getting a slap on the wrist. I mean, how many people after the financial crisis from Wall Street went to prison? Zero. Right? So I mean, a lot of these parents are going to face greater

consequences than the titans of industry at Goldman Sachs or JPMorgan and other places.

LEMON: I really enjoyed having both of you on. Please come back. Thank you so much.

HILL: All right, thanks, Don.

CALLAHAN: Great to be here.

LEMON: Absolutely. The U.S. finally grounding Boeing 737 MAX planes after two deadly crashes in less than five months. Why did officials wait so long?

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[03:45:00]

LEMON: After nearly every other country in the world had already taken action, President Trump today grounded Boeing 737 MAX 8 and 9 jets. That's after a deadly crash in Ethiopia on Sunday that killed 157 people. The second crash in less than five months.

Joining me now is a former FAA inspector, David Soucie the author of "Malaysian Airlines: Flight 370." Also Sara Nelson, the International President of the Association of Flight Attendants. Hello to both of you. Interesting day. Interesting how this has all played out. David, I'm going to start with you. "The Washington Post" reports that in conversations about this issue, the President said the 737 MAX 8, quote, "sucks" and that the 737s paled in comparison to the Boeing 757 also known as Trump Air Force One. What's your reaction to the President's comments, David?

DAVID SOUCIE, FORMER FAA INSPECTOR: I'll tell you what, the 737 MAX 8 does anything, but suck. I mean, it's a great airplane. There's no question in my mind. It's been the backbone of this industry for years, and the improvements that they've put on this airplane are leaps and bounds ahead of what anything that's been produced before.

This is just -- it's a problem. They're dealing with it. They didn't deal with it as quickly as they should have in my opinion, but this is a great airplane and will continue to be a great airplane after this issue has been resolved.

LEMON: Yes, do you disagree, Sara?

SARA NELSON, INTERNATIONAL PRESIDENT, ASSOCIATION OF FLIGHT ATTENDANTS: Do I disagree with the President's tweet? I absolutely disagree with the President's tweet. I think that he doesn't know what he's talking about. And the fact is that Boeing aircrafts are made by incredible professional machinists out in Washington State who for decades have built incredible flying machines and if they had been given the chance to get these planes on the ground and address this issue, they are certainly qualified to do that and could do that very well. [03:30:03]

LEMON: Yes, and again, it was reported in the "Washington Post" it wasn't a tweet, but listen, I just want to get to what you said earlier today. You said, "Lives must come first always but a brand is at stake as well and that brand is not just Boeing, it's America. What America means in international aviation and by its extension in the larger world more generally that we set the standard for safety, competence and honestly and governance of aviation."

Is the U.S. leading from behind on Sara, is that what you're thinking?

NELSON: This was strange because the U.S. has led from the beginning of flight. This is where flight first took off, the and rest of the world has often looked to the U.S. for the gold standard here on safety and on oversight and on pushing forward with new technology and advancements and training of all of our aviation professionals on the front lines.

We're seen as the world's leader on this, and this was just an odd, very strange set of circumstances where the U.S. was coming from behind here. And I think that it is an extension of what we saw during the shutdown as well.

LEMON: David, I had you on the other end, listen, I do a lot of segments on this show. Didn't you think they should be grounded until -- didn't you say that?

SOUCIE: Oh, yes, absolutely.

LEMON: You did. So then why was the U.S. the last country ...

SOUCIE: I mean, I was asked that yesterday and the day before.

LEMON: ... to ground this MAX 8 after two deadly plane crashes in nearly six months?

SOUCIE: Well, Don, I believe that it's because they had skin in the game. This is the same agency, the same regulatory body that certified the airplane in the first place. So how this I believe was being viewed is the fact that, they certified it; if they come back now and say, "Oh, gosh, we were wrong, we shouldn't have certified it, it has got to be grounded now," it puts egg on their face and they've not to admit they were wrong.

I think that their ego got in the way of themselves and they didn't act rationally on this. I agree with the other guest that this should have been done. It's the FAA leading and always has led. I was with the FAA for 17 years as a professional in the FAA and we always set the examples.

We taught China how to do their regulatory system. We've taught the entire world how to do this. And the fact that we didn't lead by example here is really, really a shame.

LEMON: Sara, I've got to ask you, listen, other than 9/11, right, we've never seen a stoppage like this before. How long do you see this lasting?

NELSON: Well, actually, that's not true. We did have the 787 on the ground for about four months while we fixed the issue with the lithium battery there.

LEMON: Right on, thank you for that, I appreciate it.

NELSON: This is not unprecedented. And, you know, what we're hearing is that maybe this can be resolved in a couple of weeks. We'll see. But what we're going to do is we're going to make sure that this is a transparent process that we can all follow and that we can all have confidence in.

And Don, just one other point here that's really important. Harvard Business School still teaches business leadership and teaches the case of the Johnson & Johnson and Tylenol case when cyanide was in those bottles. That was to the Tylenol's fault, but the CEO took the step of taking all those bottles off the shelf to make sure that there was -- that integrity, the return on integrity that he created for that brand and that is the gold standard. That is what leadership does. And that's what should have been done here and that's what we need to expect from our leadership in the government and in the industry as well.

LEMON: I've got to ask you, David, since you're there in Denver, about this major snowstorm that's going on, the cyclone bomb or whatever they're calling it. What is going on there? What's happening?

SOUCIE: Well, this morning I came in this morning early, and it was coming down hard and then all of a sudden it seemed to have stopped. I lived through a hurricane one time and it reminded me of that. I feel like we're right in the eye of the cyclone right now, waiting for the next blast, which is supposed to come here -- CNN wouldn't even let me go home. They said, "We're going to get you a hotel so we can sure you can make Don Lemon's show tonight." So I didn't go home. I had to stay here, but I'm glad I did. They had to put me up but I'm not sure I'm going to get home tonight, we'll see.

LEMON: Priorities. We're glad you're safe. We just wanted to keep you safe. Thank you, David. Sara, enjoy New Orleans, say hi to all my friends and family down there.

NELSON: Thank you, happy to be in your home state and I'm glad David's safe, too.

LEMON: Yes, thank you both. See you next time.

NELSON: All right, take care.

LEMON: And thanks for watching, everyone. Before we leave you tonight, here's a look at a new four-part CNN original series exploring Richard Nixon's rise, fall, comeback, and political destruction, featuring never before seen footage. The series premieres Sunday night at 9:00.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD NIXON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't give a goddamn what the story is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Richard M. Nixon has lied repeatedly.

NIXON: No reporter in "The Washington Post" is to ever be in the white house again, you understand?

The tougher it gets, the cooler I get. I have what it takes.

UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: Impeach Nixon now.

[03:55:10]

NIXON: I am going to say this to the television audience, because people have got to know whether or not their President is a crook. Well, I'm not a crook.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This crap about Watergate --

NIXON: Let others wallow in Watergate, we're going to do our job.

I'm going to kick their ass.

Nobody is going to package me. Nobody is going to make me put on an act for television. I'm not going to engage in any gimmicks or any stunts, wear any silly hats. If people looking at me say that's a new Nixon, then all that I can say is, well, maybe you didn't know the old Nixon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Tricky Dick," a new CNN original series, Sunday night at 9:00.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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