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House Unanimously Votes For Release Of Mueller Report; Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-CT) Discusses New Legislation On The Mueller Report; White House Condemns "Vicious Act Of Hate" In New Zealand; 12 GOP Senators Rebuke Trump And Vote To Block Emergency Order; 49 Dead, Dozens Injured In Massacre At New Zealand Mosques. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired March 15, 2019 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[07:30:00] SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT), MEMBER, SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE AND ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: We are going to resist. We're going to go to the streets. We are going to stop that kind of peaceful transition of power.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Senator, if you could stand by, we are now just getting the statement from the White House that we've been waiting for on some sort of reaction to the mass shootings in New Zealand.

Joe, what do you have?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: It's a pretty simple statement from the White House. It says -- and I'll just read it. It comes to the White House pool.

"The United States strongly condemns the attack in Christchurch. Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families. We stand in solidarity with the people of New Zealand and their government against this vicious act of hate." And signed, of course, Sarah Sanders, the press secretary.

That's the first statement from the White House on the New Zealand attack. Back to you.

CAMEROTA: OK, Joe. Please let us know when and if you hear directly from the president as well, even via tweet. Thank you very much for that statement from Sarah Sanders.

Back to the transparency of the Mueller report. So many people have called for that, including most every single member of Congress.

Why didn't Sen. Lindsey Graham want that? Why did he move to block that?

BLUMENTHAL: I think he will want it, eventually. I think he's going to listen to his constituents. And I think all of my colleagues will hear from their constituents that they believe transparency is absolutely necessary.

The people of the United States paid for that report. They deserve to know what's in it.

CAMEROTA: But you think he's -- Sen. Lindsey Graham's going to work his way around to it, but why didn't he feel that way this week?

BLUMENTHAL: You know, I am hoping that it was perhaps a reaction of the moment.

I want a chance to talk to Sen. Graham about my legislation -- the bill that I've offered with Sen. Grassley, a Republican from Iowa, and the co-sponsor is Sen. Kennedy of Louisiana. It's a bipartisan bill that would require public disclosure.

CAMEROTA: But what makes you think he'll support that when he didn't support this vote?

BLUMENTHAL: Because I think he understands -- and all my colleagues -- that no indictment combined with no facts and evidence are tantamount to a cover-up. And I think my Republican colleagues will be judged harshly if they are, in effect, complicit in that kind of cover-up. And they'll be judged harshly not just be their constituents but by history.

CAMEROTA: Are you -- have you had that conversation with him?

BLUMENTHAL: I hope to. I have not yet.

CAMEROTA: I want to talk to you about the vote to block the president's declaration of a national emergency. Twelve Republicans joined with Democrats in sending that message to the president.

Interesting moment, obviously. Possibly, signifying and, to your mind, I guess a tipping point. But, of course, the president is going to veto this.

So, now what?

BLUMENTHAL: The president will veto it. We don't have the votes yet to override that veto.

But, Congress is going home this week and they're going to hear an earful from their constituents. And what's more, they're going to hear that constituents don't want a wasteful, needless, reckless wall -- a vanity project that the president has made a central issue about himself. And they're also going to begin learning where the money is going to be cut to build that wall and the projects at home.

Yesterday, the Secretary of Defense came before us -- I'm on the Armed Services Committee -- and he was equivocal and self-contradictory about what projects are going to be cut -- where -- and whether he has disclosed them.

CAMEROTA: So you didn't get answers. You didn't get clear answers on where that money is coming from?

BLUMENTHAL: There are no answers yet and every time we ask, we receive another equivocal, contradictory, and evasive answer. And I think once my colleagues begin to understand that those cuts will have consequences in their own districts and their own states, they may feel differently about overriding a veto when the president is taking money that Congress refused to provide in a fake emergency.

You know, very revealingly yesterday, the chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff, Gen. Dunford, came before us and he said we have a security challenge at the border. Not an emergency -- he used the word "challenge." And he said there is no military threat.

So, they are withdrawing 40 percent of the troops. The so-called emergency is a fake one and I think my colleagues will begin to understand that and we have a real chance of overriding that veto.

CAMEROTA: Senator Richard Blumenthal, thank you very much for being on with your positions.

BLUMENTHAL: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: John --

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thanks, Alisyn.

The killer in New Zealand called President Trump a symbol of white identity. So what is it that white supremacists hear from the president that causes them to think this way? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:38:44] BERMAN: All right, breaking news. Moments ago, we did receive a statement from the White House on the apparent anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant mass murder in New Zealand. Forty-nine people killed while they were praying at mosques.

This is the statement from Sarah Sanders. "The United States strongly condemns the attack in Christchurch. Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families. We stand in solidarity with the people of New Zealand and their government against this vicious act of hate."

Joining us now is Juliette Kayyem, former assistant secretary of the Department of Homeland Security and a CNN national security analyst. And, Josh Campbell, former FBI supervisory special agent who worked counterterrorism investigations in Australia and New Zealand.

And, Juliette, you know, the White House is calling this a vicious act of hate -- that statement from Sarah Sanders. That is crystal clear here.

I am curious, though. Pouring through this manifesto, looking at the language this killer used, you see invasion. You see references to replacement, which is what people in Charlottesville were protesting and crying as they were marching through the streets there.

This killer even says he looks at President Trump as a symbol of white identity. Why? Why do you think there are people -- self-proclaimed white supremacists around the world who see our president in this way?

[07:40:04] JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Well, I think what they do is they are given credence -- and I'm being careful here -- of validity. Justification for their horrible violent thoughts because it's amplified in the public space, either by our president or reporters or analysts on T.V. or in literature.

So, being very careful -- the president is not responsible for what happened in New Zealand, but -- right -- absolutely. But the president's language to date has been irresponsible knowing the groundwork of white radicalization is going on worldwide right now.

In other words, he is our leader and showing responsibility would be to not mimic that language of, as you said, displacement, replacement, and what I've been calling this zero-sum game.

That's the difference right now is that this literature. These men are motivated -- white men are motivated, essentially, by a sense that the presence of the other is literally a physical harm to them. It is a zero-sum game.

One final thing on the White House statement. They will be parsed.

We need to call this terrorist incident what it is. It was an attack on Muslims. It was an attack on Islam on a faith -- on a great faith.

BERMAN: Yes.

KAYYEM: And the failure to call it what it is minimizes, right, the harm and the -- and the pain that that community is suffering right now.

BERMAN: It was an attack, according to this manifesto, on immigrants as well.

KAYYEM: Right.

BERMAN: On invaders, as this killer called them, as well.

And, Josh, to reiterate what Juliette said, there is one person responsible for this mass killing and it's the person who pulled the trigger inside these mosques, and there's nothing more horrific than killing people while they're at prayer. But I just don't want to dance around it.

CNN is being very careful. We're not putting the words from the manifesto up on the screen. We don't want to do this guy's work for him. But to ignore them is doing a disservice as well because this killer is using the language of invasion.

I have seen "invasion" in ads produced by the President of the United States' campaign. So what do white supremacists hear? Now, I don't know why the president is saying it, but what do they hear when the President of the United States uses words like invasion? JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER SUPERVISORY SPECIAL AGENT, FBI: So, the way I look at this is it falls into two separate categories whenever there's a mass incident like this.

So first, is the investigative phase -- the tactful side of what actually happened. And that, we've been covering all night long, trying to get to the bottom of what happened and essentially, who was responsible. Now, we've heard these reports that there is a number of subjects that have been taken into custody. We'll learn in short order what their actual role was.

So, that's the investigative side. Obviously, that's the focus.

The second aspect, which you mentioned, and this goes to the larger notion and larger aspect that investigators look at in any incident is what is motivating people to act. And so, I think -- the reason I mention that is because it's important to separate the two. There's the investigative and then the larger piece.

But to your point, what we have to try to understand is what is motivating these people to act. We've seen a number of incidents, whether it was Cesar Sayoc, the individual who obliviously sent the package bombs to various locations, including CNN. We all remember seeing on his van the political paraphernalia and so we know -- at least we can judge what his political leanings were.

As you mentioned, it's not something that we can ignore because it goes into how do we stop the next one. And if it's rhetoric from national leaders that is working to motivate these people, that's obviously a national conversation we need to have.

BERMAN: Look, the Pittsburgh killer talked about invaders; this killer talked about invaders. The killer in New Zealand talks about replacement; people in Charlottesville were saying Jews will not replace us. There is something happening here -- there is some commonality here that if it's ignored, more people will die.

Let me read you, Juliette -- because you were talking about the president here. We just got the statement from Sarah Sanders.

The President of the United States just tweeted on this. He said, "My warmest sympathy and best wishes goes out to the people of New Zealand after the horrible massacre in the mosques. Forty-nine innocent people have so senselessly died with so many more seriously injured.

The United States stands by New Zealand for anything we can do. God bless all!"

That doesn't meet the standard you just set, which is to call this an anti-Muslim attack.

KAYYEM: Yes. It mentions Islam and it's good -- it's a good statement. It's an important statement for the president to be out there. So -- and it's consistent with what we're hearing from Great Britain and France and other countries right now. Just picking up on what Josh said about why is this happening. So, you know, there's a term for it. It's called stochastic terrorism. I don't mean to be too wonky here.

But it's a sense of what -- you know, with the Internet, with this amplification of hate, that statements made by leaders or on the media or whether it's in Europe or here or wherever else, they're not intended to create a specific or to enhance a specific terror attack.

[07:45:02] But what they do do is they create the greater likelihood that there will be random acts of violence because it's not tempering the tone. So if you ask me would you like a leader in charge of a country who amplifies bad behavior or tones it down, every rational people would say you'd want the person who tones it down.

And that's what I think everyone needs to hear right now, is just we need to not give greater sort of gas to these white terrorist elements that are existing worldwide. In the United States alone, FBI statistics -- 73 percent of terrorism cases now are related to white supremacy.

BERMAN: Yes, we're not making this up. The hate crimes are going up in the United --

KAYYEM: Yes.

BERMAN: -- States. Anti-Muslim attacks going up in the United States.

Josh Campbell, Juliette Kayyem, thank you so much for being with us. I noticed you were both up, more or less, all night covering this story and we're so grateful to have you on this morning -- appreciate it.

CAMPBELL: Thanks, John.

KAYYEM: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: OK, John, to politics.

Senate Republicans rebuking President Trump's national emergency declaration. Michael Smerconish has some thoughts on this, as does Dana Bash. They join us, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: All right, we're going to turn for a minute to politics here at home because the president's emergency declaration to get money for his border wall was blocked by the Senate. A dozen Republican senators joining Democrats to block that declaration.

The president plans, though, to use his first veto today to get around it.

So joining us now is Michael Smerconish, host of CNN's "SMERCONISH." And, Dana Bash, CNN chief political correspondent. [07:50:00] Michael, what are we to make of these 12 Republicans publicly rebuking the president in this way?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, HOST, CNN "SMERCONISH": Well, it's a rare rebuke, as you well know. I think the only certainty is that we're headed for some type of a legal showdown here because, Alisyn, we all remember from civics, it's the Congress that appropriates money.

In this particular case, the president sought to or is seeking to end- run that constitutional role. He's going to say I've got emergent authority. Others will ask where exactly is the emergency.

He's made this much more about his personality and the strength of his personality among his base than he has an evidentiary presentation.

Remember that night that he had the national address -- he spent about eight or nine minutes. I expected him to go Ross Perot -- charts and graphs and data. But he never quite did that and I think it's going to come back to haunt him.

BERMAN: The politics of this vote, Dana, are fascinating to me.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: They are.

BERMAN: Yes, 12 Republicans, but none that are really up for election in tough states, including Thom Tillis from North Carolina who wrote an op-ed saying he wanted to block the president's move here -- the national emergency, yet voted with the president here.

He's putting the -- you know, the 'are you f-ing kidding me' in flip- flop. I mean, it's -- I have never -- he wrote an op-ed. He wrote an op-ed and then still voted with the president.

BASH: If you want to know how perilous the politics are for Republicans to do what 12 of them did yesterday in voting against the president, effectively rebuking the president on his signature issue -- an issue that his aides say is so close to him -- building a wall -- that it's almost an extension of himself -- somebody has said that to me -- you just have to look at Thom Tillis because you're right.

I mean, that is the ultimate flip-flop. It has to be a new word that we have to introduce into the lexicon because it is so stark. And he did it because he was warned that he was going to get a Republican primary challenge -- period, full-stop.

And so, that is why it is -- it's symbolic. It's not going to mean anything. It doesn't mean that there's a veto-proof majority.

But the fact that 12 Republicans, most of them in safe seats -- some of them -- a couple of them in seats where this actually helps them, like Susan Collins who is up for reelection in the blue state of Maine -- it's very noteworthy and it is a moment in the Trump presidency.

CAMEROTA: He put the "f" in flip-flop is what you're trying to say?

BERMAN: He put the "f" in flip-flop. CAMEROTA: Michael, will the president pay any political price for this veto now that these Republicans have come forward to say that he shouldn't circumvent Congress?

SMERCONISH: I don't think so. I think that he's -- look, he's never been a bridge-builder. It's been two-plus years now of him seeking to keep peace at home with his core constituency and not expand the tent. And I think with those folks he'll be just fine.

Yes, there's a legitimate conservative constitutional issue that's being argued by those 12 Republicans, but I candidly don't think he'll pay a price in his base. He'll thump his chest and say it's all about me protecting the border.

BASH: And can I just add to that?

When Lindsey Graham, Ted Cruz, and Ben Sasse went to the White House the night before last and stormed his dinner that he was apparently having with his wife, and said we need to talk to you about this -- we have an idea -- they didn't -- those talks didn't bear fruit in large part because I was told Ted Cruz was giving a very constitutionally, almost academic argument like Michael was just suggesting.

And the president was like I don't even know what you're talking about. The base doesn't care -- go away.

BERMAN: Maybe no pictures in the presentation.

Look, what the president could do in this case is maybe threaten to have the people who voted against him beat up. And I say that Michael because of language he used in an interview with "Breitbart." Let me read this to you.

He said, "I can tell you I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump. I have the tough people, but they don't play it tough until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad."

Michael, is the president threatening people here?

SMERCONISH: Can we -- can we put this in the broader context of the worldwide issue that you've been covering all morning long?

BERMAN: Yes.

SMERCONISH: Words have consequences and those of us who have microphones afforded to us on a daily basis because we're in the media or because we're elected officials or because we are celebrities need forever to be mindful of who is out there and watching, and that not all who are watching are at all times playing with a full deck. And that's where he comes up short time and time again.

I'm not assigning blame for what happened in New Zealand today but it's a reminder to me of the responsibility that goes with having celebrity status. CAMEROTA: Dana, I mean --

BASH: Well said.

CAMEROTA: I mean, Dana, listen, I know Michael's not assigning blame and that is totally fair and makes sense.

But, the manifesto that authorities are saying at the moment are linked to this gunman, he is explaining what the connections are between the rhetoric -- and the violent rhetoric and how he feels of his actions.

[07:55:17] BASH: That's it. Michael just said it beautifully. I can't top that.

Words do matter and everybody needs to know that. And even when you are focused on, let's say before an election, trying to gin up your base with -- by tweeting ads that have words like "invaders", tweeting ads that -- and using words that you know will help, it doesn't make it right.

CAMEROTA: Michael, Dana, thank you both very much for the conversation.

BERMAN: Be sure, of course, to watch Michael Smerconish tomorrow morning, 9:00 a.m., right here on CNN.

CAMEROTA: All right, we have much more on the breaking news. At least 49 people were killed in these two mosque attacks in New Zealand. We have a live report on the horrific terrorism that we're seeing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BERMAN: Good morning and welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Friday, March 15th. It's 8:00 in the East.

And breaking overnight, a mass killing in a place of worship -- two, in fact. An apparent hate-filled massacre of 49 people while they were praying. An apparent attack by a white supremacist to further anti-immigrant objectives all in the name of hate.

Forty-nine people gunned down in two mosques in New Zealand. This happened in the city of Christchurch on the South Island just as Muslims were gathering for Friday prayers.

Listen to what an eyewitness told NEW DAY just moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I heard the first shoot sound I thought maybe something it something happened. And then it was just continuously like shooting and coming inside slowly because he was killing all the people who were in the entrance. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: This man told me the shooting went on for 14 or 15 minutes.

Right now, one person has been charged with murder. Three other people are in custody.

CAMEROTA: The accused gunman is believed to have posted an 87-page manifesto on social media. It is full of white supremacist, anti- immigrant, anti-Muslim rhetoric.

END