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CNN LIVE EVENT/SPECIAL
49 Dead, Dozens Injured In Massacre At New Zealand Mosques; Officials: 1 Person Charged With Murder, 3 Others In Custody; Manifesto Published By Apparent Attacker Before Massacre; North Korea Threatens To Suspend Nuclear Talks With U.S.; Israeli Media: IDF Believes Tel Aviv Rocket Attack Likely A Mistake; New Zealand Terror Attacks; Trump Again Nods Toward Violence By His Supporters; New York Times: Ethiopian Airlines Pilot Faced Emergency Almost Immediately; New York Times: Controllers Say Plane Oscillated Up & Down Hundreds Of Feet. Aired: 6-7a ET
Aired March 15, 2019 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN BERMAN, ANCHOR, CNN: Some are murky at this hour. We know that one person has been charged with murder. Three other people are in custody.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, ANCHOR, CNN: We do have this 87-page manifesto that the government is believed to have posted on social media. It's full of whites supremacist, anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim rhetoric. Parts of the attack was shown live on social media. Authorities are urging Muslims in New Zealand to stay away from places of worship.
At this hour much of the country remains on lockdown. The Prime Minister is condemning the attack saying the suspects' extremist views "have no place in New Zealand or the world." So let's get right to CNN's Anna Coren. She's live in Hong Kong with all of the breaking details. What do we know what this hour, Anna?
ANNA COREN, INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Well, Alisyn, as you say 49 people have been confirmed dead but that death toll could very well rise. There are dozens more who've been seriously injured. They are suffering gunshot wounds, so as we say that death toll could rise.
This has been labeled a terrorist attacks. It is unprecedented. This massacre that took place in New Zealand. New Zealand is a quiet, peace, loving country of 5 million people. It does not see these acts of violence of extremism on its streets. It is unheard of.
So this is a country that is in shock that has really been shaken to its core. But police have apprehended three men, one of those are being the gunman. He's a 28-year-old Australian citizen. We understand he has not been in New Zealand for very long. He posted his killing spree live. He streamed it live on Facebook, it went for 17 minutes. The killing spree itself went for six minutes.
It was absolutely horrendous, something that nobody wants to see. But this is a man who is going to be appearing in court, in Christchurch tomorrow. We understand that he just fired upon everyone in his path; men, women, children. It was absolutely horrific. Let's listen now to one of the witnesses. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROSEMARY OMAR, SON IS MISSING: Today I dropped my son at the mosque and I went around to back to park. And I think it was about 20 to - or quarter to one, I heard a lot of what at first I thought was gunshots, like a sort of, I don't know, an automatic device or something. And at the first time I was like not quite sure what it really was, so what I did was I just sort of ignored it.
And then I heard two more lots after that. So on the third time, I thought it doesn't feel very safe, and I saw lots of people running. So I've decided to drive and I did for like - drove right out into Deans Ave and I drive past the mosque and there were a lot of bodies outside. So we've just been waiting here since the - just to see if our son is all right, but he's not answering his phone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: A woman who is waiting for word from her son. We don't know if she has been reunited as yet. Now these three men, including the gunman, none of them were on a watch list. None of them were on a terror watch list. They all flew under the radar as far as law enforcement and intelligence agencies were concerned. This is obviously something that will be investigated.
BERMAN: So, Anna, we are not showing this video for obvious reasons. We don't want to do this monstrous work for him. James Gagliano who we're going to speak to in a minute who served in the FBI and the military for decades tells me he saw it and he has never seen an act of such depravity. This gunman clearly wanted to send a message and wanted everyone to see it. Any sense of what that message or why he was doing this.
COREN: John, it was absolutely chilling. We were in tears watching this because it was cold. It was calculated. This was somebody who had no, no feeling whatsoever. He carried this out with military precision. If I can just run through what we saw in this video. He drives to the mosque. He gets out.
There are semi automatic weapons. Many of them in his car. He walks through the gates of the mosque. He starts firing outside the mosque. He then walk through the front doors and mows down every single person in his path. You hear people screaming, people crying out for help. He then goes into a corridor. He reloads and then continues his killing spree.
He then calmly walks out of the mosque onto the pavement and obviously by this time people are hearing the rapid gunfire. He's picking off people on the pavement. He then walks back to his car, reloads returns to the mosque inside and he's shooting, shooting these bodies on grounds.
Now, anybody who was playing dead, anybody who perhaps was hiding, hoping that these horror was going to end, well, he went out to each of those bodies and at point blank range executed every single one of them. It was absolutely horrendous.
He then walks outside the mosque. There is a woman standing on the pavement. He shoots her from a distance. He walks up to her. She is pleading, "Help me. Help me." And he shoots her in the head. He then gets in his car. He's talking. He's laughing and he's firing outside the windscreen of his car. He's in firing outside the passenger window randomly at people.
And what is so bizarre as you can hear the police sirens roaring past, he gets to a pedestrian crossing and stops and allows these people to cross the road. And we presume from there he has driven to the next mosque and carried out the next attack. It was absolutely chilling. Something that I have never seen in my life.
CAMEROTA: Anna, I know it's your job to have to watch that video so that you can report it to us, but I'm sorry that you had to watch all of that and it's going to take a long time for your psyche to detox from that and even all of ours from just hearing that level of psychopath. Thank you for your reporting. We'll check back with you, obviously, throughout the program as more news develops.
BERMAN: Right. Joining us now from Christchurch in New Zealand is radio host from Newstalk ZB, Chris Lynch. Chris, thank you for being with us. Give me a sense of the situation in Christchurch right now. I know it's late at night at this point, Friday night where you are, but what has it been like on the street since this attack?
CHRIS LYNCH, HOST, CANTERBURY MORNINGS WITH CHRIS LYNCH NEWSTALK ZB: It's been eerily quiet. When I was driving from the Newstalk ZB studio, so back to my current premises, I've never seen or felt or feel so quiet before other than the sounds of helicopters flying above, the occasional police car with its lights going past. It's a very surreal experience.
And what I think many of us here in Christchurch is starting to comprehend just the graphic nature of this. But also you need to understand the Christchurch generally speaking is a very quiet peaceful setting. We've had an experience of terrible natural disasters, it was only in 2011 that we had the natural - well, the earthquake that killed so many people.
And it felt like, John, in the last kind of six or seven months, the city was starting to feel alive again. I was out producing some video footage, because I felt proud of the city. We all feel like a sense of a new city has been built. And as you can appreciate there's been many mental health issues in the city as a direct result of the earthquakes and this just takes us back.
And what I said on national radio before and I was being very honest when I see - I think we all feel just so deflated. We feel like our city has gone through hell again and it continues to go through hell. We feel defeated, John.
BERMAN: You are not defeated and let me tell you an earthquake is a natural disaster, an attack like this is man-made, and inspired by nothing but hate. Talk to me about the two targets here, these two mosques. One of them I understand is one of the largest, if not the largest in Christchurch.
LYNCH: Yes, the largest city mosque in Christchurch City. It's on Deans Ave, which is the main thoroughfare of the city. And I've been describing the mosque, in some respects, just like the friendly neighborhood, the friendly neighbor, because it's always played quite an important role in the community.
Every year for example, John, it opens up its doors to the people of Christchurch to show that it is transparent, it is available. I've been there, a couple of young people. I've filmed in there before. That people are just generous, lovely people.
There is a sense that you want to know what goes on there. And it's not a closed-off environment that you here on some sensational kind of report in other country. It's a very friendly mosque. That's the same with the mosque in Linwood, although it doesn't specifically look like what you would call a mosque. It's almost more of a hall, a community hall environment.
But once again, we're talking about lovely, friendly, family-oriented people and that's why it's not just a shock, it's an absolute tragedy for everybody, including New Zealand. Because, John, we don't really have guns in this country. One thing we're quite proud of is the fact that when we hear of a mass shooting, we automatically think America or northern parts of Europe.
This is just very foreign to us. We don't have guns. It's not usual for us to have guns. We are a strong hunting country, but that's as far as it goes. The right to bear arms is just not in our nature. It's a complete opposite, so --
BERMAN: The manifesto which we are not reading or putting up, again, because we don't need to do this monstrous work for him. I will tell you it is filled with the language of invasion, anti-immigrant rhetoric, replacement. I know here in the United States we hear a lot of anti-immigrant rhetoric that uses the word invasion.
Is that something that is in the political stream in New Zealand?
LYNCH: No and that's what makes the situation all the more perversed. We are a multicultural country and in fact following the earthquakes, one thing that's become of the earthquakes as being a good thing is that Christchurch has opened his arms to all types of different communities from all over the globe that have come here. And I mean I was brought up in Christchurch and there was a sense of being - in the past perhaps quite a conservative quiet natured kind of setting.
But as a direct result of the earthquakes, we've had lots of immigrants from around the world helping to rebuild our city and that really feels like a lovely richness that the city has been missing for so many years, so in that respect we have welcomed with open arms, people from across the globe and that's why today's event does seem so shocking by the sounds of it. One or two people with some warped idea of immigration or otherwise. BERMAN: Chris Lynch, thank you for being with us this morning. We
are with you and we were with the people of Christchurch on this horrific day. Thank you, Chris.
LYNCH: Thank you, John.
CAMEROTA: Joining us now is Clarissa Ward, CNN Chief International Correspondent, Levi West Director of Terrorism Studies at Charles Sturt University, and Juliette Kayyem former Assistant Secretary at the Department of Homeland Security and CNN National Security Analyst.
Clarissa, we want to start with you. Obviously, you have done long investigative pieces and specials on extremism throughout Europe and beyond. And so what is the status of this right wing extremism?
CLARISSA WARD, CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Well, it's clear that this is a growing problem not just in the U.S., not just in Europe, but across much of the world now. And we've spent the morning combing through this 87 page rant manifesto. Whatever you will call it. It's very difficult, I think, to know how much of this is sincere, how much of it is intended to sort of throw up smoke screens, how much of it is intended just to be deliberately provocative.
But the kind of language you hear here this man is saying that he was very much inspired by Anders Breivik, the right wing nationalist who killed more than 70 people in Norway. He also list Dylann Roof who killed nine worshippers in a church in the U.S. And he's driven by this idea you've heard John just talking about it right now, immigration is the enemy, Islam is the enemy, Muslims are the enemy.
They are reproducing at a faster rate than we are. Migrants are the enemy. He calls them invaders repeatedly. He calls on people to actually assassinate the London Mayor Sadiq Khan, also German Chancellor Angela Merkel, and the Turkish President Erdogan.
So a lot of hate-filled rhetoric, a lot of nods as well, I would say, to right wing, far right wing names that have got a lot of traction on the internet. But I do think it will be quite a difficult task for investigators poring over this to try to decipher what's a smokescreen? What's real? Was he a lone wolf? Is he part of a larger network? Is this likely to inspire copycat killings of this nature?
BERMAN: Juliette, when I read through this Manifesto, what struck me is that the language in there could have been chanted in Charlottesville where they were chanting Jews will not replace us. The word replacement is everywhere. The word invasion is everywhere and I suppose what I want to know and what we need to know at this point is how pervasive is this hate around the world and how provocative is it to perhaps spur more violence like this.
JULIETTE KAYYEM, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Well, the first question how pervasive, it's as pervasive as the internet. This hate of exactly what you said John of replacements, of invasion is viewed by those who believe it as a zero- sum game. So we're talking about Muslims today, of course, and what happened in Quebec. But then you have Charleston, you have Pittsburgh.
It's this idea that the white race is being replaced by a another race and then that leads to terrorism. Now, how incendiary this is just depends on the reader and how they're going to absorb it and that's a question of radicalization. But the ability to access this kind of information that's out there and the fact it's amplified by people with public platforms in particular, either politicians or religious leaders or writers means that people like what we're seeing in New Zealand are radicalized. That's the radicalization process.
But we have to view it, this is not just about replacement, it is about zero-sum that this is me against a possible replacement and that is why killing is justified because if they're there then that means I'm possibly not here.
And that is the scary part of this rise of this right wing sort of white supremacy.
CAMEROTA: I mean if this is his manifesto which is what authorities believe at the moment, but obviously, these early hours. It's all about how he basically cannot deal with the culture that he finds himself in. He's a white supremacist and he can't deal with the shifting culture that is happening around the globe and he is suggesting civil war. And he brings up the U.S. a lot, he mentions President Trump.
And so Levi I'm just wondering, in terms of the rhetoric that is out there, that even President Trump is engaged in terms of invaders, the caravan or a group of invaders, can you draw a link between violent rhetoric and that kind of invasion language and violence?
LEVI WEST, DIRECTOR OF TERRORISM STUDIES, CHARLES STURT UNIVERSITY: Absolutely. I think if we sort of step back from the language specifically and think about the ideas that are embedded in that manifesto, then in the front end of that document it talks fairly specifically about three key ideas.
One is invasion and replacement. The other one is about crashing fertility rates in what he refers to as white countries. And then he closes that out with explicit reference to white genocide. These are, essentially, not just talking parts of the far right and of what extremist organizations all over the world, in the United States and in Europe in particular, but they're core ideas that underpin some of the arguments and the justifications for not just extremist movements and ideas but for the violence.
It's a way of setting up a clear other and an outgroup separate from us, the ingroup who need to defend, because we're under threat. And that that idea, which is the really important part, more than just the language is what animates people and gives the violence that they engage in meaning and purpose.
BERMAN: It really is terrifying and people better take notice of what's going on. And Clarissa, as we talk about this bigger picture, I know in Christchurch, they're primarily focused on making sure there aren't more people connected to this crime. You've covered so many terror attacks like this one and you know the first 24 hours are the most important.
WARD: They're absolutely. They want to make sure that this was - they want to ascertain whether or not this was a lone wolf attack, whether there is a larger network at play. It appears to have been very well-planned, very well-organized and there is a reference in the manifesto. He says that he's operating individually or independently, but that he asked the reborn Knights Templar for their blessing and that that was given to him by this group.
It's not clear exactly who he is referring to here, but just speaking to the broader point as well, John, when we're talking about the sort of rhetoric and politics that we see right now, I would like to say that just based on conversations that I'm having with Muslims today who are afraid to take their children to Friday prayers on this, the Muslim holiday, they feel very frightened by what they see as a kind of mainstreaming of incendiary rhetoric that essentially facilitates and encourages Islamophobia and they are very much hoping today, I think to hear some strong condemnations coming from all across the world just as Muslims are encouraged to condemn terror attacks when they happen by Muslim extremists.
CAMEROTA: We will see those arrive in the next minutes. Clarissa, Juliette, Levi, thank you very much. We'll have, of course, all of the developments on the terror attack in New Zealand. We're also following more breaking news for you.
North Korea has threatened to suspend nuclear talks with the U.S. after the failed summit with President Trump. We have a live report for you on that development next.
BERMAN: We have breaking news overnight. North Korea says it is considering suspending nuclear talks with the United States and perhaps more importantly is threatening to resume nuclear and missile tests once again. This comes after last month failed summit between President Trump and the North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un. CNN Paula Hancocks live in Seoul with these breaking details. Dangling the possibility of new missile test, Paula.
PAULA HANCOCKS, INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Well, that's right, John. We hear from the Vice Foreign Minister speaking to reporters based in Pyongyang and what she said was North Korean leader Kim Jong- Un is right now trying to figure out if he wants to continue these diplomatic talks with the United States. Also, saying that he might lift the moratorium on nuclear missile testing.
Now, that was the one thing that the U.S. President said he did come away with after that Hanoi summit that the North Korean leader had promised him that there was going to be no more testing and that was important to him. She also pointed out "the U.S. were too busy with pursuing their own political interests and had no sincere intention to achieve a result." Repeating the claim as well that the North Koreans never actually asked for all sanctions to be lifted as the U.S. President had claimed, but only a few of them, those that were affecting the North Korean people.
Interestingly though she didn't say anything bad about the U.S. President saying that there was still a great relationship between Mr. Trump and Kim Jong-Un. Also saying that the chemistry is mysteriously wonderful. Instead, she actually lay the blame for this all going wrong, the door of the U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, and John Bolton. Alisyn, back to you.
CAMEROTA: Paula, thank you very much. We will check back throughout the program. Meanwhile, there's more breaking news. Israel is blaming Hamas for two rockets that were launched at Tel Aviv, but media reports suggest those may have been a mistake. Israeli Defense Forces responded by hitting about 100 Hamas military targets in Gaza. CNN's Melissa Bell is live at the Israel-Gaza border with all these breaking details. What have you learned?
MELISSA BELL, INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Alisyn, that's right, a hundred Hamas targets that were targeted overnight struck overnight by Israel. This is in the wake of those two rockets landing in Tel Aviv sent from Gaza. The first time that that has happened since 2014 and that really represented something of an escalation that no one had really seen coming at this particular stage, Alisyn.
What we're hearing from Israeli media reports is that the Israeli Defense Forces' assessment at this stage is that those rockets that were targeted at Tel Aviv could have been the work of some low level Hamas operatives. That is that they might not have been sanctioned and so really a sense this lunchtime here along the Israel-Gaza border of all parties seeking to deescalate in the wake of this flare-up.
We've been hearing from Gaza that the weekly protests along the fence for today, those Friday protests, have now been canceled. We've also been speaking to a spokesman from Islamic Jihad, one of the groups that functions within Gaza, saying that overnight, an Egyptian delegation present on the ground has really been trying to calm things down and that all parties inside Gaza are now looking for calm to be restored if Israel is prepared to look for the same, John.
BERMAN: All right. Thank you so much for this report. We're watching this very closely. A very important day there, obviously. In the meantime, we're getting new information on the anti-immigration terror attacks at two mosques. Forty-nine people dead. We are at the scene of the shootings. We'll have the breaking news next.
All right. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY.
The breaking news this morning, at least 49 people, worshippers inside two mosques murdered in an apparent anti-immigration hate crime. Dozens injured. These terror attacks took place in Christchurch in New Zealand. Joining me now is Jackson Williams, a reporter for Sky News in Australia. He joins us now from Christchurch Hospital in New Zealand where some of the victims are being treated.
Give us a sense of the latest.
JACKSON WILLIAMS, REPORTER, SKY NEWS AUSTRALIA: It's just an awful, shocking day here in New Zealand. As our Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, says it's one of the country's darkest days. I'm outside Christchurch Hospital. Inside the hospital behind me there are 48 people with gunshot wounds being treated, around 20 of them with very serious injuries.
As we know from what police have told us, 49 people are confirmed dead, 41 of those were killed at one mosque, seven of those were killed at another mosque on the other side of Christchurch. Christchurch being a city on New Zealand's south island. One person, tragically, died succumbing to their injuries while being treated here at Christchurch hospital. So the death toll, as it currently stands, is at 49. Another 48 people, as I say, they are being treated here.
So that death toll could tragically yet rise further given that so many people are in such a bad way. New Zealand is considered such a safe place. That's why the events here today have shocked so many people, not just Kiwis, not just people here in New Zealand, but people right across the globe.
We know three people are in custody. A male in his late 20s has been charged with murder. He will face a court here in Christchurch tomorrow morning. Another two people believed to be connected to the twin terror attacks in Christchurch earlier today also in custody. Police continue to question the pair.
We do know that earlier today a total of four people were apprehended, were in police custody. Three men, as well as one woman, but police say only three people now in custody in connection, in relation to these tragic events. This is very much a country in shock. A country in mourning. Many people struggling to come to terms to be able to comprehend what's taken place here today.
BERMAN: All right, Jackson Williams for us in Christchurch outside the hospital, some 48 people killed, another 50 or so injured in the hospital behind you. Of course, hate knows no boundaries. Apparently, the ethnocentrism white supremacy knows no boundaries and has global reach as well.
Joining us now, Sam Vinograd, former Senior Adviser to the National Security Adviser and CNN National Security Analyst. Also with us, James Gagliano, retired FBI Supervisory Special Agent and a CNN law enforcement analyst.
As we sit here, there are two things obviously of paramount importance, the what now and the why. Let's start with the what now, James. As far as this investigation goes, they have one man under arrest. We believe he's the guy behind this hate-filled manifesto. What else is happening and what else needs to happen? JAMES GAGLIANO, LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, CNN: Well, John, in the
immediate aftermath of this, the New Zealand Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, came right out and called this, and I quote, a terrorist attack. Now, in the U.S., we're normally much more cautious about labeling something like that in the immediate aftermath, but there was enough there from the screen that you've referenced all morning and the video of the gunman going in and perpetrating this horrific, unimaginable crime.
You and I spoke early about this, 33 years in the military and law enforcement, I've seen some things in my time and witnessing the level of depravity that it took to execute people. This was an execution and absolutely a terrorist attack. Why? The definition of terrorism is violence or intimidation in the pursuit of political goals. This clearly appears to be what this is.
CAMEROTA: It's so sickening I really can't even think about it. I mean, I really can't even think about what you've seen on that video. I know some details, but it's such a shock to the normal psyche that it's really hard to absorb what it is.
Sam, you were at the White House. You worked at the White House during previous mass casualties. And so typically, if we can use that word with this White House, what is the U.S. response? What happens right now when there's a mass casualty somewhere in the world like this?
SAMANTHA VINOGRAD, NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, CNN: Well, Alisyn, unfortunately or fortunately, there is a protocol that's followed at the White House when mass casualties events happen. I was at the White House when the massacre in Norway unfolded tragically, unfortunately.
What happens first is that BRET reporting or incident reporting comes in via the U.S. Situation Room. In a situation like this, President Trump would have likely been briefed immediately because of the gravity and depravity of the incident.
As well as the fact that there is still a real threat to Americans based upon the social media presence of this individual and the fact that this attack could still be inciting or directing others to conduct acts of violence against Americans in the United States.
CAMEROTA: Oh, it is. I mean, we've read through the - if the manifesto is really his, of course, it's early hours, but it seems like that's what authorities believe. If this 87 pages, it is directing others. I mean, he spells out how he wants civil war to happen in the U.S.
CAMEROTA: He cites the U.S. a lot in here.
VINOGRAD: Exactly. CAMEROTA: He is instructing people to do that.
VINOGRAD: He is and I want to note, it's Friday. Many Muslims are going to jumu'ah or Friday prayers today. So there's a real risk to Muslims today going to mosques around the country. And that's why the next step the White House would engage in would be monitoring threat reporting against high-profile targets here in the United States.
But complementary to those efforts, there would be a strategic discussion about the root drivers of this attack. The reasons that this individual chose to act, the people that were cited in that manifesto, the tropes that he used, like the word "invasion," which, unfortunately, we are hearing from too many leaders mouths around the world.
CAMEROTA: Including President Trump. I mean, let's just be honest because he talks about it. The suspect talks about it, so I don't know why we would skirt around that.
VINOGRAD: Well, that's exactly the question, how many more massacres do we need before we have a domestic conversation and global conversation about the use of these white supremacists' and white nationalists' tropes. We had the Pittsburgh shooting. The Pittsburgh shooter cited an invasion. We had the attacks or attempted attacks against members of the media. There was the same kind of language that was used.
We have Marine Le Pen, Viktor Orban, the far right in Italy using this kind of language. And 49 people died in New Zealand and that rhetoric is a threat throughout all of these narratives. Any other White House, any White House, should have an honest conversation about how to combat white supremacy.
BERMAN: In the law enforcement community, James, is there a fear of the global weaponization of some of this rhetoric, the anti-invasion, the replacement rhetoric? Because now we heard it in New Zealand. We heard it at the synagogue shooting in Pittsburgh. I mean, very similar language.
GAGLIANO: It's 2019 and we have an unfortunate intersection of law enforcement and politics. And I can tell you, John, from 25 years in the FBI, that's the last thing we want. But we have to look at that. Why? Because we want to get out in front of the causality. What are the motivations here? The worst thing that can happen to law enforcement in the aftermath of something like this is not being able to figure out what happened.
We know this was clearly a madman. We know that there were some political implications behind it. But right now in the immediate aftermath, law enforcement is hyper focused because New Zealand is part of the Five Eyes, the intelligence sharing communities between Australia, the U.K., Canada and us. We share everything. Are there any other plots to be uncovered and are there any other people that, to Sam's point, inspired, enabled or directed this or are going to do this in the future. VINOGRAD: Can I just make one point? I agree with you, there should
not be politicization of this investigation. But the use of tropes, the use of language that incites violence to me is not a political question, it's actually part of what you're saying, James, and that's why law enforcement professionals, even technology platforms that are monitoring accounts, look for certain words that incite this kind of violence.
CAMEROTA: But Facebook didn't do a very good job ...
CAMEROTA: ... I mean of looking for the kind of words than incite violence since this was all over. He linked to HM, he had Twitter, he had Facebook. So I'm not sure what they're doing, really. If they don't have the competence or resources to shut this down before it happens, I'm not sure what good they're doing.
VINOGRAD: This has been reactive. I mean, there are now three individuals in custody. This was not just a guy that woke up and decided he was going to go shoot up several mosques. This was premeditated.
CAMEROTA: He planted seeds everywhere.
VINOGRAD: And this idea was born on the internet. So there was a digital footprint and unfortunately the technology platforms are likely reactively reviewing.
CAMEROTA: It's not helpful.
BERMAN: I will say, it's not like these discussions were only happening in secret places right now.
BERMAN: Because a lot of the language that's in that manifesto right now is on TV and coming from very official places every single day.
CAMEROTA: Yes. Thank you both very much for all of your expertise. We continue to follow the terror attack in New Zealand. Also, coming up, did President Trump issue a veiled threat to his political opponents?
BERMAN: Veiled is when you make hints.
BERMAN: Out loud is when it's not veiled at all.
CAMEROTA: This was an overt threat. We'll discuss it.
President Trump often talks about violence. He's even encouraged it at some of his rallies. But in a new interview with Breitbart, he goes even further, appearing to suggest that some of his supporters could get violent on his behalf. The president said, "I can tell you I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump. I have the tough people, but they don't play it tough until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad."
Joining us to discuss this is David Gregory, CNN Political Analyst, and Joe Lockhart, former White House Press Secretary for President Clinton.
Joe, you were so struck by what the President said that you've written an op-ed about it on this day of global violence where 49 people are dead because - I mean, I'm only going by the gunman's notes in his manifesto if this is really his. He is inspired by the white supremacist movement, he's inspired by violent rhetoric, what are your thoughts when you hear President Trump say that?
JOE LOCKHART, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, CNN: Well, I mean, very simply that words matter and this is the President of the United States and it doesn't matter what his motivations are, people listen. And in some cases they act upon it. You can't draw any connection at this point, but --
CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, hold on, Joe. I mean of course we can't draw a connection that the President isn't somehow responsible.
CAMEROTA: However, I'm not drawing the connection, the gunman here ...
CAMEROTA: ... the gunman at the Tree of Life Synagogue and the gunman, or whatever, the psychopath who sent the bombs to CNN who had the Trump pictures plastered all over his van. They're the ones who are drawing the connection about what their motivation was and where they first heard the heated rhetoric.
LOCKHART: Yes. And, again, I think I'll go back to words matter. I think the insidious thing about this particular comment was this idea that if we don't do things the way Trump wants them, then the police will get involved. A policed state. The military will get involved. Maybe we'll have tanks rolling down the street or the bikers. The Hells Angels. Again, I don't know whether Trump is an evil mastermind or just someone who just never understands what he's saying.
But the fact of the matter is, he says these things and it attacks our democracy. He attacks our institutions. He says, "I'm not sure that if I lose the election that I'm going to accept the results." And then he says, "I've got the military on my side."
We hear this in the dictatorships. We don't hear this in our democracy and the most enduring strength of our country, as opposed to around the world is we have peacefully transferred power for 200 and how many years, and now we have a President whose hinting that maybe we won't. Maybe we won't.
BERMAN: We keep using the word hint. I don't think there's a hint here.
BERMAN: I think it's a flat-out statement. He's saying, I have the military, I have the cops and I have the bikers. And he's saying this out loud in an interview unrepentantly, David.
DAVID GREGORY, POLITICAL ANALYST, CNN: Yes and he said during the debates, as we recall, in 2016 that there may not be a peaceful transfer, that if he lost that he wouldn't necessarily concede. So it's not the first time he's said it.
If we live in an age where we say, "Well, we're not going to take him literally. It's just Trump being Trump." That doesn't pass. That's ridiculous. I mean, Joe is exactly right, words matter because the presidency is about something more than the occupant. It's about an institution. It says something fundamental about who we are as a democracy and who we are as Americans and you don't do this.
At a time when there's so much toxicity coursing through social media to have someone with this kind of megaphone speaking that way is like a dictator. I mean, there's no other way to say it. And if the President and those around him are abhorred by the notion that there'd be any connection between violence that we see playing out and his rhetoric, then somebody needs to go talk to him because it's - we're not making this up. We have a president who talks about - who uses the language of dictators to talk about the support of the military and the police. It speaks for itself and there are people who can hear that and see it as a call to arms, quite literally. I mean, what he's saying.
CAMEROTA: And have. I mean, and have. I mean, if they don't believe the connection, maybe they should go talk to Cesar Sayoc, the crazed psychopath with the van with all of the photos of President Trump and Vice President Pence. Maybe they should ask him what his trigger was if they really want to know what happens after violent rhetoric.
And sometimes the president has claimed he doesn't use violent rhetoric. Sometimes Sarah Sanders has claimed that he doesn't use it. I do not like replaying this stuff, because I do think that it's dangerous and it triggers people. But I feel we must when they say that he doesn't use it. So here are just a couple of examples. There's many more. Here are just a couple of examples of the President encouraging violence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously. OK. Just knock the hell - I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees. I promise. I love the old days. You know what they used to do to guys like that
when they were in a place like this? They'd be carried out on a stretcher, folks.
Hillary wants to abolish, essentially abolish the Second Amendment. By the way, if she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the Second Amendment people maybe there is, I don't know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: That's the President of the United States.
LOCKHART: Yes and the comments from yesterday are a significant escalation of that, because this is the first time he's invoked the powers of the presidency as the Commander-in-Chief to impose his will on this country. And in response to what I wrote yesterday, I heard some people saying, "Oh, you're overblowing this. This is just partisan rhetoric." It's not.
LOCKHART: This is dangerous stuff. And one of the things that - my reaction this morning was I went looking early this morning for what did the President say in response to what happened in New Zealand and the silence is deafening and it speaks to this. This is a White House that when they want to respond to something, the President tweets 40 times a day and all he can do this morning is retweet a story from Breitbart.
It's sad but it's also extremely dangerous.
GREGORY: And the other dangerous part, just quickly, is the fact that Trump so overwhelms our system of the news and how we disseminate information. He so overwhelms it with one outrageous comment after the other that responsible leaders in the country and his own party say, "Well, listen, we're not going to start commenting on everything he says." They just kind of let it pass. That's when the barriers are dropped.
BERMAN: Oh, I wouldn't say it that way. Yes.
GREGORY: What's that? Yes, I will say exactly. Yes.
BERMAN: Or they say, I wouldn't use that language. That's not good enough.
BERMAN: I'm sorry, at this point it's not good enough. You've got to take a stand. I mean you have to make clear that it's wrong.
CAMEROTA: Well, we have lawmakers coming up on the program so we will be able to ask them if they feel like taking a stand. Thank you both very much.
CAMEROTA: We are continuing to follow all of the developments in the New Zealand terror attack. And the pilot of the doomed Ethiopian Airlines jet knew there was trouble almost immediately. New details about his words and the final harrowing moments of Flight 302.
BERMAN: New information that concerns the crash of the Ethiopian Airlines flight and the grounding of the Boeing 737 Max 8 and Max 9. The pilot of that flight apparently knew he was in trouble almost immediately. The New York Times reports the pilot requested, and he had a panicked voice, to turn back to the airport just three minutes after takeoff because the plane was speeding up abnormally.
Our Anna Stewart is live near Paris, where the black boxes are being analyzed. What have you learned, Anna?
ANNA STEWART, REPORTER, CNN: Well, as you said there, The New York Times article which attributes all this to a source who has reviewed the air traffic communications says that shortly three minutes after takeoff, the captain spoke to air traffic control back in Addis Ababa saying, "Brake. Brake, request back to home." In a panicked voice. Air traffic controllers apparently tried to scramble to find a runway, but they lost communication with the plane.
Now, the plane was seen observed to have oscillated hundreds of feet up and down.
And if you compare that to the Lion Air crash from last year, obviously, the same type of plane. It's got a similar altitude pattern. Are they linked? Why did they crash? We really don't know, but the secrets are here in the BEA behind me in Paris. This is the specialized unit, one of the only laboratories in the world that can analyze and interpret the data.
The boxes arrived yesterday. It's the flight data recorder and the recorder that records the cockpit voices, those are crucial clues to determining what happened. How long will it take? Up to 30 days is usual for this sort of investigation for a preliminary report, maybe less time. It depends how damaged they. As you can see from pictures, they look fairly damaged, but you really can't tell from the outside what it will be inside.
CAMEROTA: Thank you very much for that chilling update. Hearing the pilot's final words is so alarming. Obviously, investigators are looking into that. We want to get back to our top story and that's at least 49 people have been killed in this terror attack in New Zealand, so we have the latest details that are just coming into CNN, next.