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President Trump Tweets Defense of FOX News Host Jeanine Pirro; Beto O'Rourke Raises Record $6.1 Million in First 24 Hours of Presidential Campaign; Shooting Takes Place on Dutch Tram. Aired 8- 8:30a ET

Aired March 18, 2019 - 8:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Of the attacks that he levied over the weekend. How should we read this, in your mind?

KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think people should just stop and think, if anybody in their household did this, was sending out 50 tweets and these kinds of tweets, what would you be thinking? You would be concerned about that person. This isn't really normal behavior for anybody, let alone the president of the United States, unless your job is to be on Twitter all the time. So I think that that in itself is problematic.

I also think it's very telling that he sent five tweets defending Jeanine Pirro for clearly bigoted, anti-Islam comments that she made, and can't -- he can't get that kind of enthusiasm about standing up against an attack that killed 50 people, right? There's just such a -- it just shows when he's upset about something, and, to him Jeanine Pirro not being on air is more important to him than standing in solidarity with Muslims who are terrified after seeing what has happened and knowing that a lot of people feel that he himself engages in a lot of anti-Islam rhetoric.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Which, to Kirsten's point, David, brings up a lot of what we have discussed for the last couple of years, which is, how much do you cover this? How much do you look at the tweets? How much stock do you put in the tweets? But it's important to note, as she did, that this isn't normal for someone to tweet about these things, to react in this way, certainly not when holding that office. And that is why, David, it's easy to make the case, we need to look at these things, because we have to understand where we're at as a country.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: You get some insight into the presidential priorities. This is a role that has a bully pulpit, that has an outsized influence around the world, even without someone who tweets a lot. And how he chooses to use that forum tells us something about how he thinks and what his priorities are. That's what's important.

And I think Kirsten is right. The pattern here is obvious. It's not an oversight. The president is trying always to put this in the realm of politics, to tweak liberals, to defend friends at FOX News, without doing what he can and should do to be big, to be the leader of the free world, to say let's use this moment to call hate by its name, to say that it is never OK, that it should be condemned in all quarters. No one should feel comfort from anywhere that you can be responsible for this kind of violence and hold these views and express these views. He doesn't do that.

Now, he'll do it when it comes to bashing Muslims, or Islam, or Islamic fanaticism, but he won't do it when it comes to white nationalism. There's a reason for that. It is not an oversight. And so he plays kind of loose with this group of white nationalists not wanting to offend his core supporters that may include them, may not, but certainly there is a mindset that the president has that is not about governing the entire country. It's playing to a narrow band of people.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: But let's remember also as we talk about President Trump. There are lots of people who think this is just great. We're here. We're outraged. We think it's terrible that he's indulging this sort of bigotry. But he is speaking to millions and millions of people who think exactly the way he does. We have spent years now saying that, well, now Donald Trump has stepped over the line, whether it's attacking a gold star family or John McCain or any number of these crises, and he doesn't -- his popularity essentially never moves. Somewhere around 40 percent of the country thinks this is all great. So this isn't just about Donald Trump. It's about where we live.

POWERS: Yes. And I want to say something about that, because what I've noticed also is if you say what Jeffrey just said, and I've said it before, people are more offended by that usually, like how dare you say this about Trump voters or how dare you say this about Donald Trump, than they are about what Donald Trump says. It's just a weird kind of alternate universe. And it's telling also that FOX News didn't announce that they were suspending Jeanine Pirro for what she did. And so that tells you that they believe that their viewers relate to what she said, right? There's no other way to take it.

GREGORY: Right, and then to take action against it would be -- actually, that's an important point, that to take action against it publicly is what would be so problematic.

So here, President Trump, his response was incredibly adolescent when you think about it. It's like, well, this is -- what happened in New Zealand is obviously indicative of some people with some real problems, I guess. That's not how a president acts. Again, Jeffrey brought up President Bush after 9/11 going to the Islamic Center, understanding how important it was to send a message this is not about religion. This is not about Islam. This is about terrorists who have targeted us. This president isn't thinking big that way and not elevating what are American values.

[08:05:08] BERMAN: And I think we all forget -- we don't forget it, but the president called for a ban on Muslims. He wanted to ban Muslims from coming to the United States. He campaigned on a Muslim ban for a long time. And then when he became president, he did a travel ban which some saw as a Muslim ban. The president said it was banning people from specific countries. But it's not a small thing. It's a feature, not a bug from this president.

And there's a reason his chief of staff had to go on television this weekend, and in answer to a question, you saw it, it wasn't exactly is the president a white supremacist. This is what the chief of staff said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICK MULVANEY, INCOMING ACTING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: You've seen the president stand up for religious liberties, individual liberties. The president is not a white supremacist. I'm not sure how many times we have to say that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Apparently one more time, Jeffrey, on TV this weekend on television.

TOOBIN: And it's very interesting when he's talking about religious liberty. What the president has spoken out for is about the oppression of Christians and discrimination against Christians, which he does talk about all the time, particularly conservative Christians he feels are discriminated against. This president does not talk about discrimination against Muslims. And that is -- that's very much an intentional approach. You said, feature, not bug.

We spent a long time saying he's going to get presidential after the Republican Convention in 2016, after he was inaugurated. This is who Donald Trump is. There is no pretense about how he behaves. And enablers like his chief of staff can try to pretend that something else is going on here, but the one advantage of Twitter is that we get to see the real Donald Trump. There's no mediation there. It is just all out there for us to see.

GREGORY: And can I just say, I think part of what motivates core supporters is not even his particular stand on issues. And it may for some. But I think that for many it's the idea that he won't back down. So it's the general idea of not backing down, not apologizing, not giving in to any kind of pressure. That's what they'll celebrate. We spend our time being very particular, going over specific things that are said, specific positions that his words indicate he's taking, and scrutinizing that. And I think that's the distinction.

BERMAN: I think you're absolutely right. And the John McCain thing is a perfect example of that, David. He won't back down against John McCain who passed away in August, Kirsten. The president is maintaining this John McCain thing months after the death of the senator.

POWERS: I just want to say quickly on the religious liberty thing, the attacks that Jeanine Pirro made against a congresswoman for covering her head would be the perfect time to stand up for religious liberty. So if Donald Trump or his supporters care about religious liberty, that's what they would be standing up against. And Jeffrey is right that the only time he talks about it is when he's talking about Christians who are saying they are being persecuted in the United States for being Christians.

In terms of the John McCain thing, obviously what he said was despicable. It's so disrespectful to his family. But I think that part of the reason he does it is, obviously, he has all his issues with McCain. This is also a chance for him to assert his dominance over the Republican Party. So it's completely emasculating of a Lindsey Graham, who this is his best friend, who knows he can't really do anything. If he responds to this he's going to probably, well, suffer the wrath of Trump for and foremost, and have his followers turn against him. So I think it's a kind of alpha male move to really say like there's nothing you can do about this. I'm going to say the worst possible thing and there's nothing you can do.

GREGORY: Can I just make one other point to Kirsten's point about religious liberty. At the point he could have and should have done that, he was out there, the president was, attacking Democrats for being anti-Israel and anti-Jewish, he said, which was ridiculous on its face. But in addition to that, he could have said, oh, yes, and by the way, let me stand up not just for Congresswoman Omar but for orthodox Jews who wear a hairpiece for similar reasons to the hijab. But he didn't do that. Perhaps he doesn't even know about that. Again, a missed opportunity, but really, more than that, a sign of what he really thinks.

BERMAN: Kirsten, Jeffrey, David, really, thank you very much. That was fun.

HILL: Breaking news in the 2020 race, newly minted Democratic candidate Beto O'Rourke's campaign announcing a record-breaking fundraising haul, $6.1 million raised in the first 24 hours of his campaign. CNN's M.J. Lee is live in Jackson, Mississippi, with more on those breaking details. That is a lot of money.

[08:10:02] M.J. LEE, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That is a lot of money. This is a giant number, $6.1 million in just the first 24 hours of Beto O'Rourke announcing his presidential campaign. The campaign says that these were campaign contributions made online and that they came in from all 50 states across the country. Now this is the biggest first 24-hour haul that we are aware of so far. Compare the $6.1 million number to Bernie Sanders' first 24-hour haul. That was $5.9 million. Compare that to Kamala Harris' first 24-hour haul. That was $1.5 million.

Now Beto O'Rourke saying in a statement this morning that this is all proof that you can run a presidential campaign purely based on grassroots, small dollar support, and he says that he is not going to be taking money from PACs. That's corporate PACs but also all other PACs which is pretty unusual. He's also not taking money from lobbyists and special interests. This of course is again based on a statement that has come out from his campaign this morning announcing this massive fundraising haul.

This is going to be a sign of what is potentially to come for Beto O'Rourke's presidential campaign. We've been talking about this for so long. Can Beto O'Rourke actually recreate some of what he did in the Senate race that he ran against Ted Cruz when he drew so much money and so much support and was able to do this grassroots campaign and really came in from behind and caught a lot of people by surprise when he took on Ted Cruz. And it seems that he is potentially going to be breaking records as a presidential candidate as well. And I should note, he has had a very busy couple of days. He really hit the ground running in Iowa and Wisconsin since he first announced on Thursday, and he has a busy week coming up, too. He's going to be traveling to Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, so not -- no signs of him slowing down in the coming days. We'll see if he can continue to capitalize on this early momentum, guys.

BERMAN: Still no campaign manager, which is also fascinating to me. To raise $6.1 million in one day with not a lot of campaign infrastructure is fascinating.

LEE: That's right. And this is going to be something to look out for. In a lot of ways, this is an unconventional presidential campaign. You're right, the fact that he doesn't have an announced presidential campaign manager yet, the fact that he doesn't have a lot of staff, we don't know exactly what the infrastructure is going to look like. And John, you and I were talking about this last week when he announced in the "Vanity Fair" article. He said he doesn't have a team counting delegate. What is his national campaign going to look like? That's what we're going to find out in the coming weeks.

BERMAN: M.J. Lee for us live in Jackson, Mississippi. A CNN town hall tonight with Elizabeth Warren there. Stay tuned for that. Thank you, M.J.

We do have breaking news developing at this moment. One person is dead, several others hurt after a shooting on a tram in the Netherlands. Our Richard Quest is live in the city of Utrecht with the breaking details. Richard, tell us what's going on.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Right. Good morning. I was actually in Amsterdam when we were told to come urgently to Utrecht where a shooting took place. The tram -- I've going to get out of the way. The tram behind me is the incident scene. The police have confirmed that some people opened fire on the tram. What they won't confirm on the scene is whether or not there are any fatalities. But I do believe from the people who are here who saw the scene when it first happened, behind that tarp that you see hanging down, it is believed there's one fatality. That's not officially confirmed by the police who are here on the ground.

The Dutch prime minister is obviously -- Mark Rutte, has said he's very concerned by what's taking place. There's some confusion as to whether or not they are officially labeling this a terrorist incident or not. The police here won't call it that, but the central command has said it does appear to be that way. And as for the area going out from Utrecht, the roads, the highways, as you might have expected, even coming from Amsterdam, they are now starting to be closed off because -- sorry, I've perhaps left out one of the most important parts. Whoever committed this crime is still at large. The fugitive is still at large, and an increasingly large manhunt is now under way here in Utrecht. But police won't confirm whether it's one, two, or three people they're looking for. HILL: And that's one of the things we're wondering, too, if they

would confirm that it was in fact just one gunman who is apparently loose. They've, as you've said, Richard, they're not officially saying terrorism. There's some back and forth there, some discussion happening in the Netherlands, but the threat level has certainly been raised to a very high level.

[08:15:00]

QUEST: Indeed, the threat level has now gone to five, which is the critical level, and I think that is whether terrorism or not, I think that is because there is an armed person on the loose with whatever motive that may be. So for that reason alone, they've raised the alarm.

Essentially to get to the nut of it, is there a similarity, a connection, a relationship with -- in terms of terrorism with anything that might have been seen in New Zealand. The same causes behind? No one here is saying, it will be some time, although of course, it is well known that the Netherlands has indeed suffered from terrorism over these issues in the past.

BERMAN: Richard Quest for us who is in Utrecht. Richard, thank you very much. Scrambling to get to the scene of this. Obviously, it is still developing over the course of the morning and we'll get an update as soon as you get new information. Thanks, Richard.

All right, President Trump refused to say that white nationalism is a growing threat even after the anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant massacre in New Zealand. Why not? So the first Muslim elected to Congress joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you see today white nationalists as a rising threat around the world?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't really. I think it's a small group of people that have very, very serious problems.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: That was President Trump hours after the New Zealand mosque attacks. But white nationalism is certainly rising as a threat in the United States with plenty of evidence to back it up.

[08:20:10]

BERMAN: So why won't the President say so? Joining me now is the Attorney General of Minnesota, Keith Ellison. He was the first Muslim elected to Congress, also the first Muslim elected to be a State Attorney General. Thank you very much for being with us, sir. Why don't you think the

President was willing to say that he sees white nationalism, the white supremacy movement on the rise around the world?

KEITH ELLISON, MINNESOTA ATTORNEY GENERAL: I think sometimes you simply have to yield to the objective evidence, and that is -- that points to him being sympathetic to their point of view.

I mean, whether it's Charlottesville or whatever it is, I mean it all seems to point back to he has some sympathy for that position and is not willing to condemn it. He wouldn't condemn David Duke.

I mean, there's just so many points of evidence that indicate that for some reason, he is reluctant to condemn white supremacy or recognize it, and I think that's dangerous, not just to communities of color, Jews, gays, people like that, I think it's dangerous to the government because I think that, for one -- one thing is for sure, white supremacists, neo-Nazi groups, they look at governments as complicit, guilty and target government for punishment. Timothy McVeigh being a perfect example.

BERMAN: Well, I want to follow up on that because this coward who committed these killings in New Zealand put out this document that included language like invasion and invader, which is language that President Trump has used.

Now I'm not saying the President's language caused these attacks, and when I brought this with Congressman Adam Kinzinger, he said, "You can't put this on the President." What is the role in your mind of that type of language? What's the impact of it?

ELLISON: Well, one thing it signals is that there is some connection. I mean, the fact is that he not only used the word invading used or invader by the white supremacist in Europe and the United States and the united -- and the President, also this term replace or replacement. They will not replace us. You see this term propping up, popping up all over the place as well.

And I think that the language indicates a connection. The other thing I think it shows is it's encouragement. So if you are a motivated white supremacist, there's a chance that you could think the President approves of what you're doing. So those are two very scary things, and I think the vigilant need to take notice that this threat needs to be addressed.

BERMAN: The Chief of Staff for the White House, Mick Mulvaney, said it's ridiculous to suggest that the President is a white supremacist. He said he's not anti-Muslim, he's not sending signals, he's not responsible for these killings, and the Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney says, look at what the President has done. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICK MULVANEY, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: I hear what folks say, "Oh, Donald Trump said during the campaign. Look at what we've done while we've been here." I don't think anybody could say that the President is anti-Muslim.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: How do you respond to that?

ELLISON: Well, I mean, as one who pushed the Muslim ban, which he's the one who called it that, forested and fought for it up to the Supreme Court, it's hard for me to agree with the Chief of Staff.

By the way, I noted the Chief of Staff was emphatic saying the President was not a white supremacist and it just struck me that I never heard a Chief of Staff have to say that about his or her boss before, which is a startling sort of thing.

BERMAN: What Mulvaney was saying was that, yes, the President did call for a Muslim ban during the campaign, but after he was elected President, the White House insists that the travel ban, as they say, was not a Muslim ban. They draw a distinction between the campaign rhetoric which they say was just language and the action he took as President. Is that a reasonable distinction?

ELLISON: It's not a reasonable distinction. When you are the President or even running for the President, there's no such thing as just language. Every single thing you say signals to someone what your views happen to be or might be -- and it wasn't only before the election. It was quite a bit after the election that the administration was very aggressively pursuing this travel ban which was originally called a Muslim ban and I'll just bring to the viewers' memory that it was Rudy Giuliani who was tasked with lawyering it up so that it wouldn't look so much like a Muslim ban.

But the truth is that's what it started as. That's what it is and it really has not stopped. But it's not only Muslims. It's also -- I mean, the behavior at Charlottesville is noteworthy here. There are a number of indicators that -- I mean, it was only a few weeks ago, the President was saying invaders, referencing people from south of the border.

[08:25:05]

ELLISON: So this current language, this strand seems ever present, and I think it should be deeply disturbing to people who believe in liberty and justice for all which is what the credo of this nation is.

BERMAN: As Attorney General of Minnesota, you are part of the lawsuit trying to block the President's emergency declaration to get funding for the border wall. What is the status of this lawsuit? The President vetoed the congressional action. So it won't be stopped in Congress. Is the courts the place where you think it might happen?

ELLISON: Yes, I do, and I think it would be certainly appropriate to stop it right where it is. The problem is that once the President pushed the emergency button, once he invoked that power, that power allows the President to re-appropriate funds that Congress has already decided how to spend and so it allows him to get around the separation of powers. This is a very serious constitutional problem and let me just note

that the very week that the President invoked this emergency power, we had white-out blizzard conditions in southern Minnesota where we needed our National Guard to get out there and help people. That was some of the money he was originally saying that he was going to re- appropriate to his wall in the southern border.

So the money he wants to use is money that the states rely on and to re-appropriate it when Congress has already decided not to do that is a very serious problem and can only be justified by a true and legitimate emergency, which this clearly is not.

BERMAN: Keith Ellison --

ELLISON: He said so. He said it was not.

BERMAN: Attorney General from Minnesota, thanks for joining us this morning. Please come back.

ELLISON: Thank you.

BERMAN: Erica?

HILL: You are looking at live pictures right here of Beto O'Rourke. He is campaigning this morning in Michigan and he just took the lead in at least one key measure of the 2020 race. What is that measure? Well, you're just going to have to stick around to find out.

Yes, that's right, John Berman.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:30:00]