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HALA GORANI TONIGHT
Theresa May Asks EU to Delay Brexit to June 30; Angle of Attack Being Investigated in Recent Boeing Crashes; More Than 200 People Killed in Mozambique Cyclone; Interview with Senator Chris Murphy (D), Connecticut, United States; High Profile Americans Weigh on Brexit Debate. Aired 1-2p ET
Aired March 20, 2019 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:00:00] HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: Hello, live from CNN London on this Wednesday. Tonight, the European Union lays down the Brexit gauntlet. A
short extension is possible but only if Theresa May gets her deal through by next Friday.
Startling new revolution about the plane that crashed off of Indonesia last year. Richard Quest will explain it all.
CNN is on the ground in Mozambique as the country tries to come to terms with a devastating cyclone. We'll tell you the latest about the daring
rescues as well.
With just nine days to go until Brexit, the British Prime Minister Theresa May has asked the EU to delay it all. The European Union says that could
be possible but has attached conditions. Mrs. May wants a three-month extension as she continues to try to get her Brexit deal through
Parliament. The deal that's already failed to pass twice before.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA MAY, PRIME MINISTER, UK: The government intends to bring forward proposals for third meeting for vote. If that vote is passed, it will give
the House time to consider the withdrawal agreement. If not, perhaps the House will have to decide how to proceed. As Prime Minister I am not
prepared to delay Brexit any further than 30th of June.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: She's asking for a delay till the 30th of June. The EU has reacted. EU is saying it's possible but not without any conditions. In
the last hour the European Council President Tusk reacted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TUSK, EUROPEAN COUNCIL PRESIDENT: I believe that a short extension would be possible. With the condition of a positive vote in the House of
Commons. The question remains open as the duration of such an extension. Prime Minister may's proposal of the 30th of June creates a series of
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Bianca, the Prime Minister is due to speak this evening. What are our options? The EU holding the cards saying we'll grant you this short-
term extension but you have to get your deal through that was defeated resoundingly twice before.
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In the letter which Theresa May wrote to President Tusk she did outline why she was requesting that extension and
she said it was to get her deal through on the third attempt. To do that, we know the Speaker has intervened. It needs to be substantially
different. She asked the European Union to provide documents, even more reassurances to the House of Commons that she agreed on. We're expecting
this would be the form of the deal she would present to the House of Commons. She's in very difficult position. The length of extension came
as something of a surprise but mostly after a fractious cabinet meeting yesterday where
Leavers like Chris Grayling, Liam Fox at the end of their tether because cabinet have been stretched so far, it's about to break. That if the prime
minister had declared that she was going to go for that long extension she would have wrist possible resignations from the Leavers in her cabinet.
GORANI: She may not have a choice. If her deal does not get through next week, what are her options. No more short terms extension. It will be you
leave without a deal or we're talking a much longer they here.
ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, LONDON BUREAU: I think that's an open question. Donald Tusk in that statement did not say what
would happen if she does not get this deal through Westminster. He raised the possibility there could be some form of emergency summit next week.
We're really in the dark on terms of what could happen next. What we saw him do today is pretty much take the ball and push it right back into her
court. Her letter this morning asking for an extension until June 30 could be perceived as a slap in the face to the EU especially considering that
John Claude Juncker warned her not to request a date beyond May 23 in terms of a short-term extension. Because of all the complications that could
raise for Parliament.
[13:05:00] Tusk trying to adopt a more conciliatory tone saying that he wants to find a solution. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUSK: Even if the hope for a final success may seem frail even illusory. And although Brexit fatigue is increasingly visible and justified. We
cannot give up thinking under the very last moment a positive solution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: I'll get right back to you, Erin. I want to ask Bianca a question about what the Prime Minister's options are. We're talking about making up
a 149-vote deficit. The deal she and her first vote was defeated by 230 votes. You have hard-line Brexit tears who would not hear of a longer
extension. They would just rather crash out. They've said this before and people have no reason to doubt they will follow through. What are her
options if this deal is not approved next week?
NOBILO: The Prime Minister's remaining resolute that that is her focus to try and get her deal through. You make a good point. It does remove the
incentive to back her deal. In terms of how this will play out, she needs to win over 75 votes. The amount of votes that have been against the deal
have reduced slightly from 230 to 149. The DUP are the party referred to a tail that wags the dog. I've been speaking to some who have resigned from
cabinet over the Prime Minister's deal. Some who started the first pro- Brexit group and said they would never vote for the Prime Minister's deal and said they are going to. The expectation is when they feel like they
could tip the scale, reticent Labour MPs representing leave constituencies may get on board making up the numbers for the prime minister to get that
deal through. That's the theory of how it could pass.
GORANI: If she on the third attempt gets that deal through after had her deal defeated by 230 votes first time around, it would be miraculous but
also be very clever on her part how she played it. That's not a done deal. Thank you very much. We'll have more later. We'll be speaking to United
States Senator from Connecticut, the Democrat Chris Murphy who is in town, in London, who has met with officials here, and tweeted about an op ed
written by Donald Trump Junior about Brexit. Who in "The Daily Telegraph" said with the deadline fast approaching, it appears that democracy in the
U.K. is all but dead. Senator Chris Murphy the Democrat has a very different view of things and we will be talking to him a bit later.
Now to this story, there are two new reports that provide some additional clues about the recent crashes of Boeing 737 Max airplanes. First
Bloomberg is reporting one day before Lion Air flight 610 crashed, the very same plane narrowly averted a crash thanks to an off-duty pilot who just
happened to be in the cockpit. Talk about luck. He helped the regular crew shut off a faulty flight control system and there's a "Reuters"
report, that were looking at flight manuals trying to figure out what was happening. What they were trying to fix is known as the angle of attack.
We explain why that's so important in air flight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: One of the most important concepts in aviation is the angle of attack. It's the angle of the wings and the
direction the plane is flying. Its nose is pointing up but the plane is still moving down. The difference there is the angle of attack. Sometimes
called alpha. If the angle gets too big, a plane stalls. Airliners have an angle of attack sensor connected to the instruments and inside the
plane. One is Boeing's new system. It's an automated anti-stall system. This system is the focus of investigation. Experts say there are
similarities between it and Ethiopian Airlines crash. If it senses a high angle of attack, it will push down the nose. If it's malfunctioning and
gives a faulty reading, the system could force plane to dive with potentially disastrous consequences.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Richard Quest is here with me in the studio. A remarkable report there was an extra pilot sitting on a jump seat on the same plane the day
before. What is it reported that me managed to do?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN HOST OF "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": We knew the plane the day before had experienced the same sort of problem. We knew that. We
didn't know it was a jump seat rider that solved the issue. We thought it was two pilots flying the plane. Apparently not. Those two pilots didn't
know what to do. They were going through the check list but they couldn't get the nose to come back up again. It kept pointing down. It was the
jump seat pilot who sits behind the main two said to them, why don't you work to switch off the runway stabilizer.
GORANI: How did he know but the pilots weren't trained to know?
QUEST: He probably followed what Boeing always said. If the nose is going down and you're not doing anything, the horizontal stabilizers. He just
remembered in that situation -- the nose can be pointing down for other reasons. He remembered the procedure. You switch it off.
GORANI: What do we know about what happened in the cockpit as well in?
QUEST: In the crash incident, we know there were franticly going through the checklist. They were trying all the things that the book tells you to
GORANI: I'm sorry. Shouldn't pilots not have to go through manuals when they are in the cockpit. Isn't that a catastrophic lack of training on
QUEST: No. There's so many procedures. There's something gone as the QRF. Quick reference handbook. In different situation, the pilots grab
the QRF to make sure they do the right things in the switching off an engine to make sure you don't switch off the wrong one. The problem here
is the procedure we're talking about for switching off the stabilizer wasn't in the QRF. It will be added. I know that sounds extraordinary.
GORANI: It does. In 2018, 2019, to have a situation where highly trained pilots on very new and modern planes are having to franticly leaf through a
manual and not find a solution.
GORANI: That's the key. Boeing had not put the recovery into the quick reference handbook. It's sometimes now online in an iPad but it's the
backbone for what pilots do.
GORANI: If the plane had experienced that problem on one day, why did it fly the next day?
QUEST: It's a good question to which lion air has not said whether it happened in the maintenance. They haven't said why. Annex 13 relates to
rule to aircraft investigations. Everybody hides behind it. Lion Air says we can't talk. Investigators says we can't talk. Everybody says we can't
talk. Annex 13.
GORANI: We'll see you with that and more on the top of the hour about Brexit. Every day there is a Brexit development.
QUEST: Two hours. Please.
[13:15:00] GORANI: I'm sorry I gave you a fright. I'm very confused by this daylight's savings time change. We have another week of it and we'll
be back to our normal schedule. In an hour and 46 minutes with the very latest on Brexit and of course the Lion Air reports.
Thank you very much.
To Mozambique. Clinging to life by clinging to branches. People are still being rescued. Look at this. Unbelievable rescue footage. These are new
pictures of a dramatic helicopter rescue. Many of the survivors were only able to avoid it by scrambling right up trees. More than 200 people are
confirmed dead. The toll is expected to climb. Let's get the latest.
Our Farai Sevenzo joins us now Maputo, Mozambique with more. Tell us about the situation now. I know that unfortunately the country in that part
Africa was still expecting heavy rains.
FARAI SEVENZO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely right. A U.N. official described the situation as an inland ocean which is giving you the idea
it's famous throughout Africa. 90 percent of it has been destroyed by this cyclone. It's turning out to be one of the worst humanitarian events
Africa has known. The stretch, which is beautiful. It looks absolutely stunning on summer's day. When the cyclone hit that part, it crumbled
those mountains. They went cascading down and killed goodness knows how much. The Red Cross are still unable to put a number on how many died in
this community. Even as we see the rescue pictures, pit's incredible. One woman said she was rescued by the rest of her family stayed behind. Can
you imagine those conversations? Who will go on the helicopter? Who will get saved? Which baby. It's incredible story of just the power of nature.
Whether you want to pin it on climate change or anything this has never been seen before in southern Africa.
GORANI: It does speak to the fact that big climate events are creating more and more displaced people. More and more refugees. This is not
isolated to Mozambique. You could look at the map and say I hardly know where it is. The reality is the more of these extreme weather events
happen, the more desperate people get and need to leave. Need to move onto where life can provide. They can provide for their families. This has
created so many displaced people as well.
SEVENZO: Absolutely. At the moment we struggle as news gatherers and journalists to figure out how many people have been displaced by this.
We're talking about a stretch of three nations. Huge areas of land across southern Africa. We talk about seven bridges collapsing in Zimbabwe, we
talk about the cyclone first hitting Beira, here on the Indian Ocean where we are in the capital of Mozambique, and then we talk about Malawi as well.
The efforts, the humanitarian organizations are really struggling to find out the true figure of those dead. More importantly the true figure of
those who still need help. Those pictures are very fresh. In the area of the Buzi River is completely submerged. 200,000 people were affected and
10,000 were still up in trees, up on highest levels of land trying to be rescued. This brings another issue. It's a blistering hot day. It's
sweltering heat. If you consider how many bodies haven't been recovered, you're looking at a new threat, a very real threat of diseases. It's a
scramble to get this thing sorted out as quickly as possible. That's how it is at the moment.
GORANI: Thanks very much.
Some high-profile Americans are weighing into the Brexit debate. We'll tell you about Donald Trump Junior's op-ed and from Chris Murphy in London.
The first funerals are being held for the victims of the New Zealand mosque attacks. We'll be right back.
[13:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: There was an unlikely intervention in the Brexit debate this morning it came from the American President's son Donald Trump Junior
riding in Britain's "Telegraph" newspaper, he wrote, "it appears that democracy in the UK is all but dead. In a way you could say that Brexit
and my father's election are one and the same -- the people both the UK and the U.S. voted to uproot the establishment for the sake of individual
freedom and independence, only to see the establishment try to silence the voices and overturn their mandates."
We want to get some perspective now from a United States Senator who was a Democrat from Connecticut, Chris Murphy, joins me in the studio. We
usually speak when you are here in Washington. You are in London today. Why?
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D), CONNECTICUT, USA: I am in London. I am in London in part because I want to make sure that people here get a perspective that
isn't just from the Trump family about what Brexit means for the U.S. Britain relationship. Donald Trump and his allies are telling Britain that
the United States will ride to the rescue with a free trade agreement. That is a lot harder than it sounds. And it is really important to those
of us in the United States Senate that the peace process, the good Friday agreement be protected in any Brexit agreement. There is not going to be a
lot of enthusiasm for a free trade agreement between United States and Britain.
GORANI: Why not?
MURPHY: if the Irish peace process is not protected, you will having lot of members of Congress --
GORANI: Including yourself.
MURPHY: Including myself, right, who are members of the Irish diaspora who are not going to be pleased. So many are not rooting for Britain to leave
the EU. Who don't think that democracy is dead here. It's not our place to tell Britain how to proceed. But we want to make sure that everyone
here understands that how Britain leaves the EU does have consequences for the relationship with the United States.
GORANI: What could -- what do you mean by that in how the U.K. leaves the EU will have consequences on any future trade deals?
MURPHY: Right. If the economy craters after we leave the European Union, we can sign a deal with the United States that will allow us to sell a lot
more goods into America. Congress still has to approve that trade deal. There's many of us who think we should approve a trade deal with the EU
before with Britain. We don't want to provide incentives for other countries to leave and for Europe to become more weakened. So, there is an
order to the trade agreements that we would negotiate.
GORANI: You would prioritize the EU to a deal with the UK?
MURPHY: I among with many other members of Congress would like to prioritize a deal with the EU. I think it's important for people in
Britain to understand that. There's some proponents of Brexit running around saying the minute we leave Europe, we'll be able to get a new trade
agreement with the United States. It's not that easy.
[14:25:00] GORANI: Proponents of Brexit and Donald Trump Junior and John Bolton, who spoke to "Sky News" he said we would be able to strike a deal
with the U.K. once they leave the EU. We're eager to get a good deal. Donald Trump said the same. You think they spoke too fast or it might not
transpire that way in reality?
MURPHY: Not everything Donald Trump tweets is connected to reality. This is not a decision the President can make on his own. He has to make it
with Congress. I would note that I'm very troubled by this op-ed that Donald Trump Junior --
GORANI: To remind our viewers, Theresa May should have followed my father's advice. He said about Brexit that Brussels elite that's trying to
control politics in this country. He said with the deadline fast approaching, it appears democracy in the U.K. is all but dead. You're
MURPHY: It's not clear who he is speaking for. Donald Trump junior is not a member of the cabinet. He's not employed by the White House. It's
confusing when you have Trump family members speaking on behalf of the United States. I think the people need to understand when Donald Trump
junior speaks, he does not speak for the United States of America. That may make news but it's not U.S. policy.
GORANI: John Bolton is the National Security Adviser but what he says is a reflection of the administration's policy.
MURPHY: That is correct. John Bolton is not creating an equivalence between opponents of the President politically and people who criticize
Brexit. That's what Donald Trump Junior is doing.
GORANI: Who did you meet in Parliament? What did members tell you there about Brexit?
MURPHY: I think there's a general willingness on those who want to remain and those who want to leave to protect the good I didn't do agreement. I
don't think there's a lot of agreement on how to do that. Either you have a lard border which would violate a piece process or you don't and if you
don't, then you are tied to the rules of the European Union and the question is what good did it do to leave. It doesn't seem like this
problem has been solved. That would be worrying to a lot of my colleagues back in Washington who invested a lot in getting the peace process to the
point it is today.
GORANI: Would you -- do you think it's best for the U.K. to they Brexit by two years, three years or to get out even if it's an imperfect exit. What
do you this is best?
MURPHY: I hesitate to tell folks who is the right to go. It seems as if the decision is coming to a head. It probably makes sense to tell the
decision sooner than later.
GORANI: You don't think Brexit is a good idea?
MURPHY: Of course, I don't. I think it's a gift to Russia. I think Russia is going to look for the next potential exit from Europe and the
United States is weaker if Europe is weaker. The world is weaker if Europe is weaker. I worry this isn't the end of countries wishing a departure
from Europe. It may be the beginning.
GORANI: One of the wings Donald Trump Junior wrote it's the same forces that brought Brexit to the United Kingdom that brought his father to power.
Do you agree with that?
MURPHY: I think there's some of the instinct. There's the fear of immigration. We try to say we're stronger because of our immigrants. I
think that same story would be told here in Britain as well. We all need to do a better job of explaining that.
GORANI: I want to get a quick reaction. Donald Trump said let the people see the Mueller report. You think the people should see the Mueller report
as soon as it's published in.
MURPHY: Absolutely. I think the people will see the Mueller report. I hope he delivers it soon. I want him to continue his investigations as
long as he thinks it's necessary in other words to round up the people who committed crimes. I also think if the President did do something so
serious as to warrant impeachment, we need to see that evidence right now before it's too late. I'm hopeful that Mueller will deliver a fuel repo--
full report as soon as possible.
GORANI: Thank you. Pleasure having you. Still to come, tonight, he just can't let it go. Why does Donald Trump continue to attack a late senator
widely considered a war hero in in U.S.? We'll be right back.
[13:30:34] HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: The first funerals have been held for the victims of the massacre in Christchurch, New Zealand. A
Syrian refugee and its 15-year-old son were laid to rest earlier Wednesday. It is sadly just the beginning of days of emotional goodbyes for the 50
So far, only six of those murdered Friday have been returned to their families. Only 21 have been formally identified.
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said the survivors have felt the support of the nation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACINDA ARDERN, PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND: What they seek, of course, is justice for family members and it will happen through our New Zealand
system. But overwhelmingly, they keep reflecting back to me that scenes of support they have felt from the New Zealand community. Compassion,
empathy. I have not heard that language from the Muslim community in New Zealand. I have heard the complete opposite.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: CNN has obtained surveillance video that sheds more light on the terrorist attack in Christchurch. The video was recorded at a property
close to the first mosque. We should warn you that some of the images and sounds, in Ivan Watson's report, may be disturbing.
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Security camera footage from what was soon to become New Zealand's darkest day.
This video from March 15th shows people casually strolling past at 1:42 in the afternoon. It's filmed from a camera on a hotel located around 300
meters from the Al Noor Mosque.
Seconds later, a series of gunshots ring out from what appear to be two different types of firearms. And even though this is the start of a deadly
terrorist attack, passersby still have no idea what is unfolding nearby.
It isn't until nearly four minutes later that pedestrians show signs of alarm. And then, this car appears. The driver honks his horn to get
pedestrians' attention and then shoots through the passenger side window at a man on the sidewalk.
The hotel owners say they shared this security camera footage with the New Zealand police. Police won't comment on the video during the ongoing
WATSON (on camera): The camera films this stretch of sidewalk, and the footage reveals two important details about the deadliest terrorist attack
in New Zealand's modern history.
First, within moments of the first recorded gunshot, you can hear sirens backing up police statements that they were rushing to the scene within
minutes of the first emergency call.
But second, the gunman was so desperate to kill that he stopped right here and shot through the window of his own car at victims while en route from
the first mosque down the road to a second mosque. And the ground here is still littered with glass from his vehicle.
WATSON (voice-over): Police say these were the actions of a lone gunman whose rampage began with the attack on the Al Noor Mosque and subsequently
the Linwood Mosque.
MIKE BUSH, NEW ZEALAND POLICE COMMISSIONER: We strongly believe we stopped him on the way to a further attack. So lives were saved.
WATSON: Police are now revealing additional details about the suspect's plan.
BUSH: We're not going to go into those details, you know, I don't wish to traumatize others. So that will form part of the court case. But we
absolutely believe we know where he was going, and we intervened on the way.
[13:35:05] WATSON: The security camera footage shows the suspect racing away from the roadside shooting.
Roughly 15 minutes later, police detained the suspect. His rampage lasted less than half an hour, cut short by a swift police response. Yet, it
wasn't enough to stop this determined killer from claiming at least 50 innocent lives.
Ivan Watson, CNN, Christchurch, New Zealand.
GORANI: It's not just here in the U.K. that everyone wants to give their two cents on Brexit chaos. We've been speaking to democratic senator,
Chris Murphy, about Donald Trump, Jr. and his -- and the U.S. national security advisor of the Trump administration, John Bolton, who have berated
the British government.
And very specifically Theresa May as well. But what's the point of high- profile Americans weighing in on this Brexit battle? And what does it mean for that historically special relationship?
I'm joined now by former British ambassador to the U.S. Peter Westmacott. And Nile Gardiner, former advisor to Margaret Thatcher who joins us from
Peter, let me start with you. What did you -- did you have an opportunity to read this Donald Trump Jr. op-ed where he says essentially, yes,
democracy in the U.K. is dead? Theresa May should have followed my father's advice.
PETER WESTMACOTT, FORMER BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: I read it this morning. Yes, Hala.
GORANI: Yes. What did you make of it?
WESTMACOTT: I wondered who had written it for him.
GORANI: You don't think he's capable of writing that op-ed on his own?
WESTMACOTT: I'm sure he is. But it looked to me like it was written probably by a brit. I mean, somebody who was tapping into the kind of we
are all victims of the terrible establishment and the elite.
I wasn't sure whether his initiative. I wasn't sure that he drafted it. But, you know, that sort of thing is always written by somebody else, in
any case, and then -- and then tweet.
But more importantly, what is the purpose of it? I mean, of course, I think in the external intervention of that kind into domestic critical
debate isn't always tremendously helpful.
And, frankly, although it created a little bit of headline this morning, it rather sink without trace because so much else has been going on the Brexit
GORANI: And we're going to get to that.
Before we do though, Nile Gardiner, your reaction, not just to what Donald Trump Jr. wrote, but what John Bolton, the national security advisor said.
Here's what he told Sky News.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BOLTON, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: The president has been clear he wants a resolution that this issue that allows the United States and
Britain to come to trade deals again. He sees huge opportunity if Britain status can be resolved.
And I think the point he's made that I would stress is people of Britain have voted. When is the political class going to give effect to that vote?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: What do you make, Nile Gardiner, of John Bolton weighing in?
NILE GARDINER, FORMER ADVISOR TO MARGARET THATCHER: Well, I think it's a very important message that Ambassador Bolton is sending there. I think
the White House has been 100 percent supportive of Brexit. They're looking forward to a U.S.-U.K. free trade agreement. And I think it's in U.S.
interest, actually, for Britain to exit the E.U. as soon as possible. And, of course, fulfill the will of the British people --
GORANI: But it's Chris Murphy, the democratic senator, I just interviewed said the exact opposite of what you're stating here. He said Donald Trump
alone cannot decide what trade agreement happens. And that Congress is most likely to prioritize a trade agreement with the E.U. over the U.K. in
the shorter term.
GARDINER: Yes, I did hear the senator's comments, actually. He's first U.S. senator who I've heard who is casting doubt on the U.S.-U.K. free
The reality is there's already a U.S. Senate --U.K. trade caucus which has, at least, 19 senators as members. And the draw from both the Republican
and democratic parties, also bipartisan issue, there is tremendous backing, I think, for U.S.-U.K. free trade agreement on Capitol Hill.
And certainly, the U.S. administration has given its 100 percent backing to moving forward with such a trade deal, in terms of the negotiations for it.
So I would say the mood here of Washington is very much in favor of a very big successful trade deal with the United Kingdom.
And I think also that there has been a very, very strong U.S. backing for Brexit as well off rule. Brexit is about sovereignty and self-
determination and liberty and freedom. All the principles that the American people hold dear to their hearts.
GORANI: Well, certainly, Nile Gardiner, the Trump administration and those who supported are in favor of Brexit.
Peter Westmacott, let's get to today's development. Because Theresa May is in a bind here. The E.U. is telling her, we'll give you a short extension,
but only if you're able to get that deal that was so resoundingly defeated twice before through parliament next week. Do you think she has a chance?
WESTMACOTT: That is right. Well, it's become more difficult for her, because the speaker of the House of Commons has ruled that you can't bring
your deal back to me if it's the same. It's going to be substantially different.
She was intending to try and get a third vote on it yesterday, but actually the votes weren't there. And in any case, the speaker made that very
difficult. So now, she's going to Brussels and there is that conditionality. You can have a short extension. Not an extension, by the
way, that she's asked for which is to the end of June. They said you're going to have to show or they're going to say. She has until the 23rd of
May because of the timetable of European parliament elections. But it does depend on getting her deal through.
[13:40:07] GORANI: But will she do it? Will she get it? Will she get it done?
WESTMACOTT: It doesn't feel like it at the moment, because on all sides, there are a lot of people, whether they're Brexiteers or they are
remainers, who don't think that that deal is very good. And, of course, the deal doesn't actually deal with any of the substance. All that would
have to be negotiated after we have left during the transition period. And a lot of people are nervous about what that means.
So I think we are still in crisis. And it is by no means impossible that we don't get an agreement in the parliament about the terms or the
deadline. And that it's possible on the 29th of March, as scheduled, that we crash out with no-deal. That is not to be excluded.
GORANI: Nile Gardiner, what are the chances of a no-deal here? Because, certainly, this week, compared to last week, it seems like a more likely
outcome, doesn't it?
GARDINER: Well, I agree. I do think the chances of a no-deal have dramatically risen in the past 24 hours or so. I think that's a very, very
strong chance Britain will exit the E.U. on March 29th, under a no-deal scenario.
And my view is that, actually, this is probably the best scenario right now. I believe that Theresa May's deal does not offer the right proposals
here. It keeps Britain and definitely tied to the E.U. customs union. It's a hugely flawed agreement.
There's no chance, I think, that deal would go through parliament even if a vote were to be -- to be held. And the reality is the British government
has made in-depth preparations already for a no-deal scenario.
Also, most European governments have been preparing for a no-deal scenario for many, many months. And so the sky is not going to fall in. I think
Britain will do perfectly well under a no-deal Brexit. And I think that Britain will make the success of it.
GORANI: You don't accept it'll be a big shock to the U.K. economy just leaving the E.U. without a deal and all of a sudden just reverting back to
WTO tariff structures, that would make U.K. goods more expensive to the 27 and the reverse would be true as well.
GARDINER: I think the British economy is doing perfectly well at moment and it will continue to do well in the Brexit era. I think the markets
have already worked into various scenarios of the possibility of a no-deal Brexit. I don't think it's going to be a huge shock to the economic
And I think that you're going to see foreign direct investment continuing to flow into the -- into the United Kingdom and the U.K. successfully
trading with all of the members of the European Union as well.
GORANI: A lot of economists disagree with you. Peter Westmacott, do you disagree with Nile Gardiner on that?
WESTMACOTT: Yes, I disagree with that. Because an awful lot of the foreign investment comes into the United Kingdom because we are the obvious
port of entry to the single market. And all adjust in time manufacturing which relies frictionless free trade, frictionless trade between the United
Kingdom and the rest of the E.U., and giving access to the market of 450 million prosperous consumers. All that would be placed in jeopardy. As
many of the manufacturers who have got investments in the United Kingdom have been warning us.
I would add one other thing that I'm afraid -- I would love it if there was a great new shiny free trade agreement with the United Kingdom, the United
States after Brexit if we do leave the European Union, which is not actually certain anymore. But it's going to be much more difficult than
We could have negotiated very well as part of the European Union, because we've got the clout and the leverage to do so. But all that stuff about
agriculture, financial services regulation, beef hormones, GMO foods. It is going to be a very, very difficult trade negotiation. It won't happen
in three days. It'll take many years.
And I'm afraid, I believe that United Kingdom's negotiating position will be significantly weaker in taking on the United States on major trading
partner that it would have been if we were still in the E.U.
GORANI: Well, two very different points of view. Nile Gardiner in Washington, thanks so much for joining us. Peter Westmacott, as well.
It's a pleasure. Thank you.
More to come. We'll be right back.
[13:45:51] GORANI: U.S. President Donald Trump spoke to reporters a short time ago on the White House lawn and some of his first words were, "No
collusion, no collusion." Despite repeatedly slamming the Russia investigation. As a witch-hunt, Mr. Trump said he doesn't mind if the
public sees Special Counsel Robert Mueller's report.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I had the greatest electoral victory. One of them, the history of our country. Tremendous success.
Tens of millions of voters and now somebody's going to write a report who never got a vote. So we'll see what the report says. Let's see if it's
fair. I have no idea when it's going to be released.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. Let's bring in CNN contributor, David Swerdlick. He's an assistant editor at the Washington Post.
So if the president says let the people see the report, does that mean we will see the report when it's published?
DAVID SWERDLICK, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I don't think we know the answer to that yet, Hala. I mean, first of all, the president has an interest in looking
like he has nothing to hide. A political interest. Putting aside legal considerations. He doesn't want to suggest to the public, to the press
that he's sweating this that he has anything to worry about.
On the other hand, he knows that he has his recently selected new attorney general who's been sort of murky about what parts, if any, of the report,
that he'll put forward. And he knows that the special counsel statute is on his side.
The special counsel statute requires Special Counsel Mueller to give the report to the attorney general. The attorney general can then decide what,
if any, he'll turn over to Congress or make public.
GORANI: Now, another big headline making development, I guess, in the Trump administration is the president's -- who is continuing to attack a
dead senator, John McCain.
GORANI: What's his calculation here?
SWERDLICK: So, clearly this is unbecoming, un-presidential. But I think the calculation on President Trump's part is that it's a way for him to
signal, yet again, to his core supporters, his political base that he is not of the main line establishment Republican brand.
He is something a part and different from them and that he is the, sort of, tribune on the people on their side. The old Republican guard was not on
their side. Unfortunately, he's dancing on the grave of the late Senator McCain to do it.
GORANI: I was going to say I don't know when a strategy that involves attacking a dead person ever works, but maybe in his own conventional way
he thinks that it'll earn him some points.
The other thing that he's been doing, as well, is sparring with his advisor Kellyanne Conway's husband, George Conway, who's been very critical of the
president. Questioning his mental health. He even -- he's calling him a whack job. A total loser. Is this is a calculated distraction from other
things he may not want people to talk about?
SWERDLICK: I do think the president likes this combative element of politics more than he likes some of the other elements of politics.
Certainly more than he likes getting into the weeds of policy discussion and he feels comfortable on this turf, Hala. And so he's willing to go
into this fight.
But in some sense, this is a boiling over of a feuds that's been simmering. George Conway, Kellyanne Conway's husband, has really, over the course of
the last two years, ratcheted up his criticism of the president. Wrote a couple of pieces for the Washington Post last year criticizing Trump's
policy ideas. Wrote one piece for the New York Times. Also criticizing the president.
And this Twitter war, I think now, is this sort of simmering feud coming full blown out into the open, as we wait for the Mueller report to drop,
which we're not 100 percent sure when that will be.
GORANI: All right. Thanks very much. David Swerdlick of the Washington Post.
More to come, including, new hope for women with postpartum depression.
The first drug designed to treat the illness has just been approved. But it's a little more complicated than that. We'll go over with our chief
medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
[13:50:33] GORANI: We want to tell you about a new drug designed to treat women suffering from postpartum. It's a serious mental illness that
affects an estimated one in nine new moms. And the drug just -- was just approved in the U.S. It's being hailed as the first of its kind.
What are some of the side effects? How much does it cost? Let's get the details with Dr. Sanjay Gupta who joins us from New York.
So the drug is called Zulresso. Tell us about it, Sanjay.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was designated as a -- as a breakthrough therapy. Because as you mentioned, Hala, it's
the first time that you actually have a medication that is specifically designed to treat postpartum depression.
It's been in clinical trials for some point, for some time. And they actually wanted to figure out how well does this work as compared to just a
placebo. Giving an IV without giving any actual medication.
And they found that it worked well. You can take a look at some of the numbers there. But it also worked quickly. And that was probably the most
important point here. Typically, antidepressants can take weeks to actually get to blood levels that are -- that are actually going to provide
some sort of benefit. It seemed to work with this medication within 48 hours.
So pretty significant. You mentioned it, Hala. I think this is what's caught a lot of attention as well. The price tag on this, $34,000 for a
single dose. A single dose basically means that it's going to be 60 hours of an intravenous infusion. That has to be done on a hospital setting or a
clinic setting. That's going to have an additional set of costs as well.
But the reason that this gap breakthrough status is because there hasn't been a medication, specifically for postpartum depression, and it does seem
to work very quickly, which can be very important in these cases, Hala.
GORANI: But I saw the cost. 20 grand, 35,000, potentially. This is for the -- for the privileged view right now.
GUPTA: Yes. I mean, some of these drug costs are completely out of control. There's no question. When you talk to the makers of the drug,
they will say, look, there will be discounts that they can be made available to people. They give the impression that people who need this
medication are going to be able to get access to it.
When it is FDA approved, as it is now, it's going to be available in June. That might make it easier to negotiate with insurance companies to help get
insurance companies to pay for it. But, yes, you're right. $34,000.
One of the things I will point out is that the medication, in addition to working fast though, does seem to be pretty durable. It mean that it could
last up to a month. And by that point, the other -- if someone's taking regular antidepressants, they could actually start to kick in and provide
relief just for the traditional medications at that point.
GORANI: And for anybody considering this, briefly, what are the potential -- what are the downsides? What are the potential side effects here?
GUPTA: Yes. I mean, you know, part of the reason that this is being given in a hospital or clinic setting is because there are concerns that it can
cause dizziness, it can cause people to become excessively sleepy. Even pass out.
So it's an IV. Again, 60 hours. That's two and a half days that you're going to be in the setting. You got to be monitored closely as a result of
that. Those are some of the initial concerns.
And then obviously, as more and more people use it, if there's more concerns of sort of crop up, obviously, they're going to be monitoring
that. But this is now approved and will be made available in June.
GORANI: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks very much for joining us with that.
[13:55:01] And thanks to all you have for watching tonight. I'm Hala Gorani. I'll see you next time on the program. Do stay with CNN. There's
a lot more coming up. "AMANPOUR" --