Return to Transcripts main page
New Day
Rep. Mike Turner (R) Ohio is Interviewed About President Trump Again Attacking War Hero Sen. John McCain; New Zealand Government to Ban Assault Rifles in Wake of Mosque Shootings; President Trump's Comments on Mueller Report and John McCain Examined. Aired 8-8:30a ET
Aired March 21, 2019 - 8:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:00:00] SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: -- the legacy of Senator McCain will continue to help the president.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Justice Department issuing subpoenas as part of a criminal probe into Boeing 737 MAX planes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Members of Congress are now asking questions. You are going to see a broadening investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The American people deserve answers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota on John Berman.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, and welcome to your NEW DAY. It's Thursday, March 21st, 8:00 in the east.
We have breaking news that is sure to spark new debate and controversy in the United States, and it comes from thousands of miles away. The prime minister of New Zealand announced a ban on all military-style -- these are her words -- semi-automatic weapons, assault rifles, and high capacity magazines. These are the kind of high-powered weaponry used to massacre 50 people praying in two mosques only six days ago, the terrible terror attacks in New Zealand six days ago.
Now, compare that to the United States. The murders in Aurora, Colorado, July, 2012, Sandy Hook, December, 2012, San Bernardino, 2015, the Pulse Nightclub, June, 2016, Las Vegas and Sutherland Springs, 2017, Parkland and Pittsburgh, last year. Just as that that list is so comprehensive is depressing, but it is also worthy of note that we are dealing with years, not days. Six days for action in New Zealand. Now, the United States has largely done nothing or very, very little in the response to these attacks over the years.
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: We should point out, too, that action in New Zealand could actually be in place in only a matter of weeks. The government saying they will push these gun policy changes through with urgency. The prime minister also announcing a buyback program to take additional weapons out of circulation, and noting those who don't comply will face hefty fines or in some cases even imprisonment. CNN's Ivan Watson is live in Christchurch with the breaking details on this and some of the reaction too locally from New Zealand. Ivan?
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Erica. That's right, this country is still very in mourning. The families, the anguished families, they still haven't been able to bury all of the victims. And yet the prime minister has announced a ban on all of types of weapons that she says were used in the deadliest terrorist attack in New Zealand's modern history.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JACINDA ARDERN, NEW ZEALAND PRIME MINISTER: Every semi-automatic weapon used in the terrorist attack on Friday will be banned in this country. We do have guns in New Zealand that are used for legitimate purposes by responsible owners. I have been steadfast in my belief that the vast majority of these owners will support what we are doing here today, because it is about all of us. It's in the national interest and it's about safety.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON: So there are a lot of weapons here per capita, about 1.2 million out of a country of 5 million. So how will they get people to surrender the weapons? Already the authorities have been asking people to voluntarily surrender their weapons. They say there will be a buyback scheme, and they are estimating that could cost the equivalent of $70 million to $140 million. There will be a website that the police will running for gun owners to register their weapons which as of 3:00 p.m. this afternoon, if they fall into the categories, are suddenly illegal. And they say they will strengthen the fines and penalties if you are caught with these weapons in the future.
But there is an amnesty period. There is going to be a transition period for this to take place. Already there have been statements coming from an Auckland rifle club, from the leader of the main opposition party. They are all endorsing this dramatic step. So the government seems to think it has national consensus behind it in the wake of this terrible atrocity that was committed just six days ago here in Christchurch. John, Erica?
BERMAN: Ivan Watson for us in Christchurch. Yes, we know New Zealand is very different from the United States, 4.5 million people, 350 million people here. The Second Amendment in the United States. All we are noting is that it took six days to do something, reach consensus. And that is what has been unable to be reached, even come close to in the United States.
Other news, President Trump insisted that he wants the American people to see the Mueller report.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you be willing to speak under oath to give your version of this?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: One-hundred percent. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you going to talk to Mueller?
TRUMP: I'm looking forward to it actually.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To reach a higher standard you would do it under oath?
TRUMP: I would do it under oath.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, would you still like to testify to Special Counsel Robert Mueller, sir?
TRUMP: Thank you. Sure, I would like to. I would like to.
I would love to speak, because we've done nothing wrong. I would love to go. I would love to go. Nothing I want to more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: So what we just played for you, obviously, was the history of what the president claimed he would be willing to do in the Robert Mueller investigation.
[08:05:02] He claimed that he would be willing to testify before Robert Mueller. That never happened. So yesterday on the White House lawn when he says he wants the American people to see the Mueller report when it comes out, should we believe it? Want to bring in Maggie Haberman, White House correspondent for the "New York Times" and a CNN political analyst. Does the president really want us all to see the unedited Mueller report, Maggie?
MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think you have the answer to your own question, John, because he said that, and then it was followed immediately by, that's up to the attorney general. So for instance, when he would say he wanted to speak with Mueller's investigators and would he do it under penalty of perjury, and I think for a time he did actually want to do that. But even when he was still saying publicly after a while he wasn't going to, he would say, it's up to my lawyers. My lawyers say don't, or my lawyers don't want me to, or it's their view. So he often says one thing and then contradicts it very quickly after. And I think that it is why there is sort of diminishing returns in thinking this has anything to do with what will happen with the report. He could say that he wants the report to be made public and have that be the directive to the A.G., but I see no evidence that he's going to do that right now.
HILL: It also gives him, in some ways, a fallback, Maggie, too, to say, look, I said I want it out there. It's not my fault.
HABERMAN: Of course. One of the things that he was extremely skilled at during the campaign and since, but particularly during the campaign, is he would take both sides of the same issue, sometimes in the same sentence, and his supporters would hear one thing and his detractors would hear another. And this allows him to do the same thing. BERMAN: Of course, yesterday in that same sentence where he said that
he yesterday he went on to say that Robert Mueller wasn't elected. How come Robert Mueller gets to lead this investigation, and he didn't get one vote. So you see opening the possibility of the American people seeing the report on the one hand with the attack on the other.
HABERMAN: I think that he was answering the question in the way he thought the reporters wanted him to answer it, which was, yes, say the public should see it, because he does have this tendency to try to please whatever group he is in front of. But he immediately buttressed it with, but it is up to the A.G. He had said previously in an interview with CBS that it was going to be up to DOJ to decide what to do with this and whether the public should see it. And I think that will ultimately be the position of the White House.
HILL: There has been so much back and forth and so much speculation about what's behind the attacks on John McCain. We talked to you earlier in the week about what was behind the Twitter spew over the weekend. What is the thinking on this Thursday morning from the White House about how much the impending Mueller report is really weighing on the president?
HABERMAN: So Erica, I think it's two things. I think it is the impending Mueller report. But he has been told by many of his advisers that he should not expect that it is going to necessarily be that damning. That doesn't mean that it won't be, but they don't expect it to be a Ken Starr report in length, and they think that that limits some of the problems for them.
I do think the other thing people are missing that took place this week that got under his skin was this unredacted search warrant material that supported the FBI searches on Michael Cohen. There were several pages of redacted material that looked like they related to Trump organization issues. I think that was in his head as much as anything yesterday.
BERMAN: That's interesting. That hadn't occurred to me. So you do think that some of the legal activity that has taken place, because we always wonder, we always wonder how much of the president's public statements and public activity is a response to the investigation. That you do think has been a little bit of the impetus here.
HABERMAN: I do. And I think that it has gotten through to him that his biggest legal exposure is likely in the Southern District of New York, because by everything we have seen, it is unlikely that Mueller is going to recommend indicting a sitting president. The Southern District investigations, which were spun off from Mueller, this was the Michael Cohen case and its various tentacles since his guilty plea, that is I think a greater risk to him, I think the people around him know that, I think and he knows that as well. So I think that those documents got in his head.
BERMAN: You have an article this morning about John McCain, the president's most recent attack on John McCain, which came during an official White House event yesterday in Ohio. And you and your co- author talk about the pressure, if there is any, for the president to stop this. Do folks in the White House feel this is helping him?
HABERMAN: They don't feel that it is helping him. First of all, there are many fewer people in the White House than there used to be, number one. Number two, those who are still there tend to see it from his vantage, and his vantage point on this -- and to be clear, this is not my justifying it, I am just saying this is his vantage point -- is he has come to associate, and there is a through-line on everything here we are talking about this morning, and it is the investigations. He now associates McCain with the Christopher Steele dossier. He repeatedly offers a set of facts that has been contradicted but he still sticks to it. He associates McCain with the Steele dossier because McCain turned it over to the FBI reportedly.
[08:10:01] And he believes the dossier is the source of all of his problems with Mueller. It's how Mueller got created. That is also not so, but that is in his mind, how he's bootstrapping one thing to the next. And that's what driving it. And I think that within the White House, I wouldn't underestimate the degree to which folks around him share the view that he is under siege and that it has been too much and that it has been unfair. Again, I am not validating that view, but that is how they see it. And so there are not a lot of people would rather that he was not attacking a dead man. That is 100 percent true. But I don't think that -- most of them will amend it with, but he has a point. And you hear that over and over again.
HILL: Which is fascinating, too, just the lack of the response on the John McCain part and the whole picture that you paint there, and also the fact that we are not hearing from more Republicans. And what we heard from Scott Jennings who was on with us this morning, I'm paraphrasing here, obviously, was that it's just not worth the political capital, right, to come out and say something, because it could backfire in terms of not only the president but also what else the president is going to say.
HABERMAN: Right. You can look at it almost as a downhill scale since the campaign where when he first attacked McCain and he said this comment about McCain, I was reminded by a former campaign aide after McCain ahd said that Trump at a rally had brought out the quote- unquote, crazies, or in his commentary he was at the time, Trump questioned McCain's war hero status, Republicans really were upset at that point, as were some of the president's advisers. When the president attacked -- got into a fight with Khizr Khan around the time of the Democratic convention, that then horrified Republicans.
By the time we got to "Access Hollywood" weekend, which was October, 2016, there were far fewer Republicans openly speaking out the way, because they saw that when they did it, it didn't move the needle at all and it did not move the president's voter who they need in their own races if they don't want to be primaried away from him. And so I think at this point he is the president. He has this vice-like grip on the GOP right now, and I don't think any one-off is going to change. And then when he does this, we've talked about this before, he tests the boundaries of everything he can get away with, and he's going to see that he got away with this.
BERMAN: Maggie Haberman, thank you very much for being with us, really appreciate it.
So how did President Trump's attacks on John McCain go over with locals in Ohio? We're going to ask a Republican congressman who was there with the president, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:16:03] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: President Trump was speaking in Ohio at a tank factory in Ohio. He was talking about national security, and talking about the economy, but also talking about John McCain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: McCain didn't get the job done for our great vets and the V.A. And the other thing is we're in a war in the Middle East that McCain pushed so hard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Joining us now is Republican Congressman Mike Turner of Ohio. He was with the president at the plant yesterday in Lima, Ohio.
Congressman, thanks so much for being with us.
I just want to cover this quickly if we can before we get to other subjects. You were in the room there. What went through your head when the president said that about John McCain?
REP. MIKE TURNER (R), OHIO: Well, I think what's come to light in most recent days is, of course, the use of the discredited dossier and it is being placed in McCain's hands by Democratic Party operatives by Christopher Steele who is being paid by Hillary Clinton and by the Democratic National Committee --
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: Congressman, I'm sorry. What does that have to do with John McCain's funeral, Congressman?
TURNER: I'm not talking about his funeral. I'm saying over the recent days the attempts to use John McCain to legitimize the discredited dossier for the purposes of initiating an investigation against the president has come to light in testimony that you are aware of that McCain's associate David Kramer testified that they even -- that Christopher Steele said the dossier was being given to McCain for the purposes of legitimizing it.
Now, my expectation is that if John McCain had known this information was Democratic Party-funded, Hillary Clinton-funded information that it had not been verified as Christopher Steele has testified now, he probably wouldn't have had anything to do with it. That's largely on the minds of people as we hear the president doing these attacks.
I think John McCain is a national hero. I worked with him on national security issues. I cannot believe if he had not been deceived and had been told this information was being paid for by Hillary Clinton, that Christopher Steele himself was being paid for by Hillary Clinton, he would have had anything to do with it.
BERMAN: You are criticizing John McCain. I'm surprised to hear this. This is not what I expected, sir.
TURNER: It's not a criticism of John McCain.
BERMAN: What you are saying is having known better he wouldn't have given something that could be incriminating to the FBI. All he did was get this and give it to the FBI.
TURNER: No, I didn't say that. Actually, that's not all that occurred. David Kramer testified --
BERMAN: David Kramer is someone John McCain knew. David Kramer is someone that John McCain knew. John McCain --
TURNER: He was an associate working with John McCain.
BERMAN: No.
(CROSSTALK)
TURNER: As you know, as I said because I did not criticize John McCain. I said I truly believe having worked with John McCain on national security issues for a decade, that if he had been told that Christopher Steele when he met with David Kramer and gave him the dossier was being paid for by Hillary Clinton, by the Democratic National Committee, and that Christopher Steele would later testify, I didn't verify any of this material --
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: Congressman, none of this gets to my question. None of this gets to my question. Again, John McCain was given the dossier. He gave it to the FBI.
TURNER: Under false pretenses.
BERMAN: Doesn't matter. He gave it to the FBI. I don't understand --
TURNER: False pretenses matter, John. False pretenses do matter.
BERMAN: Does it justify, Congressman, does it justify the president of the United States at a White House-funded event in Ohio, in your home state, talking about the funeral of a human being, let alone a war hero like John McCain who passed away in August?
TURNER: Well, I can tell you that the people in the room were incredibly surprised and I was personally saddened that the information the president was there to celebrate, a tank plant that was there to celebrate, an accomplishment with this tank plant which was slated to be closed and that was a result of the Trump increases in defense spending is now going to go up to a thousand people with tanks rolling off the line to help us deter our adversaries and our aggressors.
[08:20:04] Certainly, that's saddening. But I think that you cannot lose the fact --
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: Did you tell him you were saddened?
TURNER: Absolutely, the reason --
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: Did you tell the president that you were saddened --
TURNER: I didn't have a chance to speak to the president after he spoke. Certainly, it's very public. I'm telling you very much today and certainly the people around me there. I expressed my sadness that he was doing so. Again, with the news of the day you have to understand we now know that John McCain was under false pretenses.
BERMAN: John McCain --
TURNER: Took action --
BERMAN: I don't understand.
TURNER: I don't believe --
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: John McCain's action with the Steele dossier seemed to me to be completely irrelevant to bringing up his funeral arrangements before a crowd in Ohio. Full stop. I don't understand why you would bring that up unless you think it would justify the president --
TURNER: I didn't, as you know. You did.
BERMAN: You brought up --
TURNER: No. I brought up the dossier which the president also brought up. You didn't play that portion of the tape.
BERMAN: Does it justify talking about John McCain's funeral arrangements?
TURNER: I believe that the president of the United States needs to defend his own comments.
BERMAN: Right.
TURNER: But I do believe that while we look at the dossier and the Mueller report and as this story is unfolding, that we need to look at the actions of the Hillary Clinton campaign, the Democratic National Committee. They funded the dossier, funded Christopher Steele, got the information to John McCain under false pretenses. They entered it in court as official evidence. BERMAN: John McCain's actions here -- all he did was give it to the
FBI. That was John McCain's role in all of it. Again, there is plenty of time to discuss the dossier. We may have the Mueller report in the coming days. We may see --
TURNER: Yes, that would be helpful.
BERMAN: We know it didn't launch the Russia investigation. We know George Papadopoulos was the impetus for the launching of the Russian investigation. That will be a discussion we'll have.
Again, my question to you, and I was going to ask about, I want to talk about Lordstown, I want to talk about the economy. But my question to you is what was your reaction when the president went after John McCain out loud and the first thing you brought up -- the first thing you brought up was the dossier. It was only after we discussed --
TURNER: The president brought it up. You didn't play that portion of the tape. You weren't there and I was. You didn't play the tape, so maybe you're not familiar with the fact that's what he also spoke about.
BERMAN: I know.
TURNER: My comments are related to that because it is an important issue that you gloss over. I believe if the Hillary Clinton campaign, the Democratic National Committee funds Christopher Steele --
BERMAN: You should talk about John McCain.
TURNER: --and goes through John McCain -- goes through John McCain and gives him false pretenses of the information that he has, it's wrong. And I truly believe that --
BERMAN: So John McCain gave it to the FBI --
TURNER: He had to know it was political -- he would not have had anything to do with it.
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: The FBI already had the information. James Comey getting hands on the dossier from John McCain did nothing in the investigation.
TURNER: Right. They entered it in court and never told the court it was politically funded research by Hillary Clinton.
BERMAN: The misdirection here, the shiny object of the dossier in relation to how the president is treating John McCain -- again, I'm genuinely surprised, Congressman, that you brought it up as a member of the Armed Services Committee.
TURNER: John, perhaps you should look at the tape.
BERMAN: I saw it. I watched it. I read the president -- I know very well.
TURNER: You're aware that he mentioned the dossier.
BERMAN: I am. And I'm also aware that he mentioned health care --
(CROSSTALK)
TURNER: You are aware, so don't be surprised I'm bringing it up in the context of the comments.
BERMAN: OK. But again, in your mind, it doesn't justify talking -- you stick by you are saddened, yes?
TURNER: I'm sorry?
BERMAN: You stick by you are saddened by it.
TURNER: Of course. I said it and I mean it.
BERMAN: OK.
TURNER: But what you needed to acknowledge is what you have said which you weren't saying before is I didn't just bring this up, the president did.
BERMAN: Oh, yes.
TURNER: In the press conference, the president brought the dossier. That's what my comments are related to.
BERMAN: OK.
TURNER: I think it is a very important point. It was deception all around. The fact that it was paid for by Hillary Clinton and the Democratic National Committee as political opposition research and the manner in which it was used was wrong.
BERMAN: OK.
TURNER: It does a disservice to John McCain and I think it does the disservice to the country.
BERMAN: All right. Congressman, I want to ask one question about the plant in Lima yesterday. You are obviously excited about the production there. Didn't visit Lordstown where GM closed. A lot of people laid off there. Are you concerned about the workers there?
TURNER: Yes, and so is the president. The president mentioned it. He believes general motors should take actions to re-open the planted and look to others they could sell the plant to.
It's certainly surprising because we have an increase in manufacturing. And that General Motors would be abandoning the workers there. We have experienced it in my town where General Motors closed plants. I think General Motors needs to reconsider the commitment to its own employees and the country. My father worked for General Motors for 44 years on the production
line. I think General Motors has done a great disservice to the American worker.
BERMAN: Congressman Turner, thank you for the discussion today. It was enlightening. I appreciate it.
Erica?
TURNER: Thank you, John.
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Will a new assault weapons ban in New Zealand lead Democrats to renew efforts to push for stricter gun laws here in the United States? We'll speak with a congressman who tried to ban assault weapons. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: Overnight, New Zealand's government announcing a ban on all military style semiautomatic weapons in the country, along with the assault rifles and high capacity magazines. Lawmakers there taking action just six days after 50 people were killed inside two mosques and a terror attack.
New Zealand's action stands in contrast to the stalemate here in the United States when it comes to stricter gun laws.
Joining us now, Congressman John Yarmuth, who's the chairman of the House Budget Committee and also cosponsored a bill last year to ban assault weapons.
Sir, good to have you with us.
END
