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Washington Braces for End of Mueller Investigation; NATO: Two U.S. Service Members Killed in Afghanistan; White House Rejects Dem Requests for Info on Putin Communications; Doomed Boeing Jets Lacked Key Safety Features. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired March 22, 2019 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They are hopeful Mueller will not find that the president has committed any crimes.

[05:59:35] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to see a real report about what the Russians did and with whom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The American public is going to expect transparency. If they hold too much back, it's going to be a real problem.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president didn't have any of his own officials there. We need to have an account of what was discussed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We hired Trump to be our chief negotiator. He is entitled to a great degree of executive privilege.

REP. DAVID CICILLINE (D-RI), FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: We have a responsibility to oversee and to hold this administration accountable, and we're going to do it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. It's Friday, March 22, 6 a.m. here in New York. Alisyn is off. Erica Hill joins me.

Can you feel it?

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: I can feel it. I feel it in the air.

BERMAN: Yes, there's a tremor in the force here. Everyone thinks something is about to happen, something really, really big; and many think it will happen today, probably.

This morning, the cameras are all rolling. The experts are all on speed dial, and the anxiety is set on ready to serve. There is every expectation that Robert Mueller will turn over the report on his Russia investigation as soon as today. Now, we say, "as soon as today." But depending who you talk to, which

cab driver, political strategist or person who knows someone who once met a guy who worked near a Justice Department lawyer, it will be today. We will see, but we have already seen several things by this morning that give us some major hints.

First, there is Lunchgate. We saw Robert Mueller show up to work yesterday, but our stakeout team said Mueller did not leave for lunch yesterday. He usually does.

HILL: Hmm.

BERMAN: Also Visitgate. CNN'S Katelyn Polantz says special counsel prosecutors have been bringing family into the office to visit. Staff has been seen carrying out boxes. And there is the crystal-clear signal that a number of lawyers assigned to the special counsel's team, that number has dropped significantly; and one of them on the way out, Andrew Weissmann was seen wearing a tan suit.

HILL: What?

BERMAN: A tan suit. That is a major departure from the usual dress code of dark suits and white shirts.

Now, a number of the key players have been seen in public. Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, who launched the investigation. The new attorney general, Bill Barr. A reminder that delivery of the report by Mueller is a huge moment. The end of his investigation; but it's just the beginning of what will be a colossal fight over what Congress and the public gets to see.

Remember the stakes here. This is all to discover whether and to what extent people connected to the president worked with the Russians to influence the campaign and whether, and to what extent, the president and those around him worked to obstruct that investigation. We're going to discuss all of that this morning.

HILL: And we are also following breaking news out of Afghanistan this morning, where NATO officials say two U.S. service members have been killed. The identities of the fallen troops not yet released but those deaths putting America's longest war squarely in focus this morning. We will have much more on that breaking news just ahead.

We do begin with CNN's Kara Scannell, who's live in Washington on the Mueller news and the anticipation there. Kara, good morning.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Erica.

That's right. I mean, over at the White House, they're just like us, reading these tea leaves. One campaign aide is saying that there is growing sense of optimism that this will clear the deck, kind of get this whole investigation behind them.

A second source tells our White House team that the White House is feeling pretty good and confident that this report will not accuse the president of committing any crimes. There's a lot that we don't know here, but what we know is that when

the report is finished, there is a protocol that they follow based on the regulations. And so the special counsel's office will notify the attorney general, give them the report, tell them it's done. The A.G., Bill Barr, will notify the House and Senate Judiciary Committees telling them that they have the report. They're also obligated to tell the Judiciary Committees if there was any instance where the Department of Justice overruled a decision that the special counsel wanted to make, whether that was to subpoena the president or bring charges against anyone.

From there, now Bill Barr, when -- during his confirmation hearings, he said that he was going to make his version of this report public to Congress, and that that would be because he wanted to give the most transparency as possible under the law.

Now, the White House is expecting to be able to look at this version in order to make any claims of executive privilege. Now, this is where the real battle can begin, because if the White House wants to redact too many things, because they say that it would violate executive privilege, then we're going to have, potentially, a looming fight with Congress as they fight to get access to this and make it public.

So, John, it feels like we're a little bit in the fourth inning of this instead of the end of the road.

BERMAN: No. The fourth inning, but the fourth inning is a major inning in this case, Kara, given that we've been waiting nearly two years for Robert Mueller to wrap up his work; and that could happen as soon as today.

Kara Scannell, thank you very much for that report.

Joining us now is Elie Honig, former federal prosecutor and CNN legal analyst. And Elie, I have a piece of memorabilia here. This is my first-edition original copy of the Starr report from the government printing office. This is what was turned over by Kenneth Starr in September of 1998. This is not what we're getting today under any circumstances.

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think you're right, John. So I think that, first of all, if we learn something today, it's going to be that Mueller has sent the report over to Barr. And that's where the real decision-making will happen.

Now, one of the big questions is, how much depth and detail is Mueller going to put in his report? Now, the regulations that he's operating under only require him to list any prosecution or declination decisions. That's open to broad interpretation. He could be as brief as just saying, "I've decided to prosecute Paul Manafort and Rick Gates," et cetera.

[06:05:17] BERMAN: Have a nice day.

HONIG: And nobody else. Thank you very much. Right? Or he could issue something closer to that Starr report. Now, we

don't know. If you look at his prior indictments, he's gone into quite a bit of narrative detail. And I do think we'll find something between the sort of one sentence, "Have a nice day," and that report.

BERMAN: Two things. First of all, if he does turn this over to Bill Barr today, it doesn't mean we will ever see this again, the version of the Starr report. What happens is Bill Barr goes through it, decides what he turns over to Congress. The White House may try to exert all kinds of executive privilege on it, so it could be a very slimmed-down version that we ever get to see.

And the second thing here, Elie -- and this is what I want to go into in some depth here -- is this notion that Rod Rosenstein has provided a road map of what we're not going to get here.

And Jonathan Karl at ABC pointed this out. Again, it was public information, nut it was a letter that Rosenstein wrote to Charles Grassley, who was then chairman of the Senate Judiciary, explaining that don't expect information on people not charged.

Rosenstein wrote, "Punishing wrongdoers through judicial proceedings is only one part of the department's mission. We also have a duty to prevent the disclosure of information that would unfairly tarnish people who are not charged with crimes."

If we're not going to indict people, Rod Rosenstein seems to be writing here, we're not going to tell you if we found sketchy things that they did.

HONIG: So that is the top-line DOJ policy. And it sounds good, and it's often observed but not always. And I don't think it can or will hold here. Here's why.

DOJ has already set a precedent of, in very high public interest investigations, even where people have not been indicted, releasing significant details. Obviously, Hillary Clinton, she was never indicted. James Comey sat in front of a camera and gave a very detailed account of what had been found.

But other instances, as well. When DOJ investigated the Ferguson Police Department, they issued a long narrative report without indicting anybody. And I think the key there is how high the level of public interest is. And here I think the public interest and importance is as high or higher.

The other thing to keep in mind is DOJ actually -- we actually do name other unindicted people all the time. It's called unindicted co- conspirators. Right? I did plenty of indictments. People always do, where you list the people who were charged. And then there's other people who, for whatever reason, you haven't charged. You anonymize the name. You call them Co-Conspirator One, Individual One, et cetera. But it's pretty obvious who it is, especially if it's the president. So that's another way that this policy sort of sounds good on one level but isn't really -- really observed. And look, finally, we have to avoid a catch-22. DOJ's policy is "We

don't indict the president, and our policy also is we don't say anything bad about anyone who's not indicted." Well then what, if anything can ever be said about the bad actions?

BERMAN: That's the glitch in the system. We just don't know yet how either Mueller or Barr will handle that situation. We're waiting to see. Elie, stick around. We have a lot more to discuss with you. Before I let you go, how impressed are you I found my first edition?

HONIG: Is it signed?

BERMAN: No, I missed my chance --

HONIG: He was here. You could have had it.

BERMAN: -- Ken Starr, to have him sign it. It will have to wait until another time. All right, Elie, stick around.

Erica.

HILL: Breaking news overnight. Two U.S. service members killed in Afghanistan during an operation. We want to get right to CNN's Ryan Browne, who is live at the Pentagon with more of these breaking details -- Ryan.

RYAN BROWNE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erica, details are still very scarce to state what exactly happened that led to the death of these two U.S. Service members. This is the third and fourth U.S. Military death in Afghanistan in 2019. And it really underscores that, despite talks between the U.S. government and the Taliban, talks that the Trump administration has said has made progress, that fighting very much continues.

Afghanistan just celebrated its new year. Typically, that's a time when insurgents and terrorist groups attempt to mount attacks. But again, the U.S. Trump administration has considered drawing down the 14,000 U.S. troops currently in Afghanistan, has considered drawing them down as these talks proceed.

Now, we don't know much about the two deaths that just occurred. U.S. officials in Afghanistan telling me the incident is under investigation, but it does raise questions about where the U.S. goes from here.

The Trump administration is hoping that these talks are successful. But while these talks have progressed, they've actually opened up an entire new rift between the U.S. and the Afghan government.

Now, the Afghan government has accused the U.S. of keeping it out of the negotiating process, saying that they feel they're being cut out of it; and they're afraid that the U.S. and the Taliban may strike some kind of deal. But, again, a lot of questions remain about this incident and what the U.S. strategy for Afghanistan will be moving forward -- John.

BERMAN: All right, Ryan. Thank you very much, Ryan Browne at the Pentagon.

The White House is rejecting requests from House Democrats for documents related to President Trump's communications with Russian leader Vladimir Putin.

This comes as the head of the House Oversight Committee says there is new information showing that top White House officials used personal accounts in WhatsApp -- we're talking about Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner especially -- to conduct government business.

Our Joe Johns live at the White House with the very latest here.

[06:10:02] I'm old enough to remember, Joe, when there were people who got in trouble for using their personal accounts for government business.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Yes. That would be Hillary Clinton. Right.

But look, there's also this question about transparency in government. And you know, the president has paid lip service to the idea of transparency and openness, at least as far as the Mueller report goes.

But the chairman of the House Oversight Committee says exactly the opposite is true, which raises the question if this administration seems to be covering the wagons, do they have something to hide?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS (voice-over): House Democrats accusing President Trump of stonewalling after the White House rejected their efforts to obtain information about Mr. Trump's private conversations with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

White House counsel Pat Cipollone insisting that the president "must be free to engage in discussions with foreign leaders without fear that those communications will be disclosed and used as fodder for partisan political purposes."

The Democratic chairmen of three House committees firing back, writing that the denial "continues a troubling pattern by the Trump administration of rejecting legitimate and necessary congressional oversight with no regard for precedent or the Constitution."

This is not normal, and to begin an effort to understand what were those conversations about, what documents exist that might record what they were about is perfectly reasonable.

JOHNS: A former State Department official told CNN in January that, after a 2017 meeting with Putin in Germany, President Trump took his interpreter's notes and told him not to share anything about the discussion.

"The New York Times" reports that all of the five meetings between President Trump and Putin have been handled in an unusually secretive way, leaving many in the administration guessing what happened. DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There was no

collusion. I didn't know the president. There was nobody to collude with.

JOHNS: House Oversight Chairman Elijah Cummings also raising concerns about new information he says he's obtained, revealing that several current and former senior White House officials have used personal e- mail and messaging accounts for official government business.

In 2016 President Trump repeatedly attacked Hillary Clinton for using private e-mail.

TRUMP: She should never have been allowed to run for the presidency based on what she did with e-mails.

JOHNS: Among those under fire, President Trump's son-in-law and senior White House adviser, Jared Kushner, accused of communicating with foreign leaders using the messaging application WhatsApp.

In October, CNN reported that Kushner used the app to message Saudi Arabia's controversial crown prince.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: Now, there's a little bit of a back and forth here. Chairman Cummings says Kushner's lawyer, Abbe Lowell, told him that Kushner used WhatsApp in December to transmit information. Abbe Lowell says Kushner is in compliance with all law and rules.

Back to you.

HILL: All right, Joe. Thank you. I'll take it.

Joining me now, Margaret Talev, senior White House correspondent for Bloomberg News and a CNN political analyst.

Margaret, as we look at this, part of what Abbe Lowell's pushback was, was saying that, yes, he's in compliance because, in some cases, from what we understand, he would screenshot those message exchanges and then forward the screen shot of that messaging to his White House e- mail account, which seems like a somewhat unnecessary extra step on one hand and also is questionable, perhaps, in terms of recordkeeping.

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Sure. Erica, there's sort of a trust me aspect to that, but also, you know, when you're using something that's encrypted but not the government's version of encrypted, it raises concerns from the intelligence community and kind of from U.S. officials, trying to understand what was happening.

So you know, I think what we have here is a combination of the obvious politics for Democrats, which is that during the campaign season, Trump would not let this go when it came to Hillary Clinton but now, it's happening, within the top -- top advisers on his own team.

But there are also the security concerns. When it came to Jared Kushner's communications or likely, possible communications with the Saudi prince, MBS, and with leaders all over the world. He's been deeply involved in this Mideast peace plan discussions that are apparently going to be rolled out after the Israeli elections in a couple of weeks, in trade discussions throughout the world.

And so you have a combination of security concerns, diplomatic concerns, public records concerns. And someone who is at a very high level of government at a pretty young age without a lot of government experience. Probably our intelligence agencies want to make sure that that person's not getting played.

HILL: You also bring up the political aspect of this, which is impossible to ignore, of course, in 2019. Does the fact, though, that this was a concern under Trey Gowdy in 2017, does that alleviate at all the political nature that many folks are going to be likely to put on it?

[06:15:03] TALEV: You know, I think if it's legitimate fodder in 2016, it's legitimate for discussion now.

But problems like this are not going to go away. They're probably not going to be limited to President Trump's administration. In the old days, you would, you know, pick up the phone if you wanted to avoid having a paper record, and then the really old days before there were e-mail records, you'd go meet somebody off campus.

But what the government is doing in diplomacy missions and Congress's ability to have some check or balance of power on what the executive branch is doing has always been an issue. And however technology and politics coincides is going to shape how that plays out.

But you're not going to see this concern going away any time soon, given all the questions there are about the state of play in the Middle East, the U.S. relations with Russia, and the role of the Saudis in major defense and diplomatic policy right now.

HILL: Two more years of back and forth are in our future. Of that we can be sure. Margaret, appreciate it. Thank you.

John.

BERMAN: All right. New this morning, this reporting that the doomed Lion Air and Ethiopian Airlines jets that crashed five months apart lacked two key safety features that Boeing only sold as extras. And "The Times" reports this morning that Boeing is making one of them standard as part of a fix to get the 737 Max planes back in the air.

Our Jessica Schneider live in Washington with much more on this. Jessica, what have you learned?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, it really is standard for airline manufacturers to offer multiple add-ons for this extra cost, but "The New York Times" now says that both of those doomed jets opted out of two available and possibly key safety features, because their airlines chose not to buy them and, really, regulators didn't require them. So here's how those safety features may have proved pivotal. The new

software on these 737 Max jets, they can automatically push down the nose of the plane to prevent stalling when it detects that the plane is pointing up at a dangerous angle.

But Boeing's optional safety features, in part, could have helped the pilots detect any erroneous readings from those sensors. And erroneous readings are exactly what may have caused that Lion Air crash back in October. That's what investigators are looking into.

So according to "The New York Times," Boeing will actually soon make one of the optional upgrades that could have alerted pilots to those faulty sensors standard on all new 737 Max planes.

But CNN, we have not been able to independently confirm this reporting, and Boeing itself is not commenting. You know, this all comes, this report, as Boeing is now working to roll out a software fix and federal investigators have, of course, opened a criminal probe into Boeing, and sources have told us that subpoenas have been issued and Boeing's certification process could be in question here.

So Erica, federal prosecutors, they're seeking information about this entire development of the 737 Max -- Erica.

HILL: Jessica Schneider with the latest for us. Thank you.

New Zealand coming together for a national day of reflection one week after the massacres at two mosques. The Muslim call to prayer broadcast live on national television and followed by two minutes of silence to remember the 50 lives lost in the terrorist attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SILENCE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: That scene where you can hear nothing but the wind was at Hagley Park, a short walk from the Al Noor Mosque, the first mosque that was attacked one week ago.

Thousands of Muslim mourners attending a memorial service before Friday prayers. Many non-Muslims there, as well, standing around perimeter in solidarity.

The area treated with the reverence of a mosque. Many women in attendance, including the prime minister, wearing head scarves as a mark of respect. The prime minister also paid her respects, quoting the Prophet Mohammed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACINDA ARDERN, NEW ZEALAND PRIME MINISTER: The believers in their mutual kindness, compassion and sympathy are just like one body. When any part of the body suffers, the whole body feels pain.

New Zealand mourns with you. We are one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: "We are one" is the message that the prime minister, Jacinda Ardern, has been giving since the very beginning here, the day after saying, "They are us" of the victims of this massacre. Not letting this killer divide that nation.

It's such an important message, and you were seeing the response, I think, on the ground there.

HILL: And the way that she has not only come out from the beginning, as you said, but this is us, how she has said, "We will not say this person's name. We will not allow this person to overshadow the memory of these 50 people who were taken." It's really been -- it's been something to watch, that's for sure.

BERMAN: An important message.

Up next, the top story, we're watching it oh, so very closely today. The Mueller investigation. The report could be delivered today to the Justice Department.

[06:20:05] What can we expect? What is the chain of events that takes place maybe beginning in a few hours? We'll discuss next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right. Welcome back. We have some live pictures we want to show you from Washington, D.C. Let's put them up.

That is outside the special counsel's office in Washington. You can see the cameras beginning to gather. Why? Because there is a great deal of expectation that today could be the day that Robert Mueller ends his investigation and turns over his report to the attorney general of the United States.

Now, as we wait for that, we have heard from President Trump on this report. He conducted a new interview where he's saying things -- and I'd have to tell you, they are things that are not borne out by facts -- about this investigation. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Think of it. I have a deputy, appoints a man to write a report on me to make a determination on my presidency? People will not stand for it.

Now, with all of that being said, for two years we've gone through this nonsense, because there's no collusion with Russia. You know that better than anybody, and there's no obstruction. They'll say, "Oh, well, wait." There was no collusion. That was a hoax, but he obstructed in fighting against the hoax.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BERMAN: All right. Robert Mueller was not appointed to make a determination about the presidency. Robert Mueller was appointed to investigate whether or not there was some kind of collusion or connection between people surrounding President Trump and the Russians. And from that investigation, Robert Mueller no doubt also looked into whether the president or those around him were trying to obstruct that investigation.

There's a lot we already know. From plain view, from things we have seen and from things that Robert Mueller has already written. But today is a huge day, potentially.

Elie Honig is back with us. Also joining us now, Toluse Olorunnipa, White House reporter for "The Washington Post"; Shan Wu, a CNN legal analyst who also represented a former Trump assistant campaign head Rick Gates.

Toluse, I want to start with you, because before we get into the legal goings-on, I just want a sense of what's happening behind the scenes in Trump world. And I use that phrase "Trump world," because at this point, it means the White House and the campaign.

How are they preparing for this moment?

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. The Trump campaign, the RNC, the White House, they are all sort of coordinating and looking at how they're going to push back on this report.

I've heard from sources within the Trump campaign that they have a war room set up of people who are looking to push back with rapid response against this report, no matter what's in it. Whether or not it's politically damaging, whether or not it's legally damaging.

They're going to try to put out information to try to sort of extinguish any fires that come up out of this report. Any idea that the president might be guilty or any idea that the president might have done anything.

They're going to try to distance the president himself from anything in this, even though we already know that the president's campaign manager, his national security adviser, his deputy campaign manager, his foreign policy adviser have all been caught up in this investigation, and many of them have already pled guilty or been convicted of various crimes, some of them related to Russia, but they're going to try to distance the president and say the president had nothing to do with any of this. This report clears him, as long as, you know, the president is indicted, which most people do not expect will happen as a result of this report.

They're going to distance the president from this and say that he had nothing to do with this. And this is all part of the broader message of presidential harassment that they're going to lodge against not only the Mueller team but also Democrats in Congress.

So there is a big war room and a big effort that's sort of under way and already sort of gaining traction in advance of this report. And once this report comes out, I think we'll see that machinery start to -- start to mobilize against the Mueller team --

BERMAN: I can tell you one thing.

OLORUNNIPA: -- and the Mueller report.

BERMAN: I can tell you one thing. No matter what is in the report and what it says, the White House team and its supporters will say it clears him.

HILL: Absolutely.

BERMAN: It could say -- it could say --

HILL: The president already said it did. Apparently, he knows, which he's been saying for months at this point, right? The president has said for months, "No collusion, no collusion," putting that out there purposely and saying it again this morning.

BERMAN: No. And again, no matter what the report says, we won't see what the report says for a while, but no matter what it says, even if it says guilty, which again, it doesn't say that, but in, like, 48- point font --

HILL: Right.

BERMAN: -- the president would say it clears him. I think that is a safe political expectation to make here.

HILL: That's one thing we can definitely bet on that this morning.

The other thing that stood out to me just in that sound that we heard from the president, Elie, is -- is him talking about, you know, they're looking into -- I'm just looking at my notes that I scribbled here and trying to read my own handwriting.

"They're looking into, you know, they're saying obstruction and whether, in me fighting back, there was any obstruction," which is an interesting turn of phrase, to put it mildly, and if there was obstruction, it should be investigated.

HONIG: Yes, I would offer Exhibit A in evidence, which is John's copy of the Starr report. And if you look at page 165, the report states -- this is back in 1998 from Ken Starr -- "There is substantial and credible information that President Clinton endeavored to obstruct justice by engaging in a pattern of activity to conceal evidence regarding Lewinsky." So it was good enough for here, I think we have a precedent.

Now, the only difference, I would say, is back in this case in '98, that involved an effort to obstruct a civil case.

HILL: Right.

HONIG: Here, the allegation, I think, would be that the president and people around him, potentially, were involved in an effort to obstruct a criminal case, which is even more serious.

BERMAN: So Shan, today -- what today may be, if Robert Mueller finishes investigation and hands his report over to Bill Barr, I want to talk about what it is. We need to understand what it's not before we talk about what it is.

What it's not is a release to the public of all Mueller's findings. We are not going to find out, likely, today everything that Mueller knows. But in turning over to -- the report to Bill Barr is a significant moment for a bunch of reasons.

And one of them might be, at least to my mind, that a new person in the Trump administration and a new person that may have loyalties to the president, will have all this information. Is it possible, then, that the White House and political advisors to the president might know as soon as today or this evening what Robert Mueller has found out?

SHAN WU, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think so. And I think that their first line of defense, actually, their goal, is to suppress as much as possible.

But their first line of defense is going to be Barr, of course. And he's got the regulation and authority behind him to, essentially, filter the report; and they'll talk to him first. I mean, that's the first person they're going to go to. The DOJ will be digesting it. They'll probably be able to see it, as well.

And that's going to be the first line of defense, to communicate with him to figure out what parts of this do we not like? Do we want to exert executive privilege?

END