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New Day

End of Mueller Investigation Expected Soon; Two U.S. Service Members Have Been Killed in Afghanistan; Biden Weighs an Early Announcement of Running Mate. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired March 22, 2019 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: We have live cameras set up, on the watch. NEW DAY continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[07:00:09] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're going to be able to see the report, weigh. I'm sure they're nervous.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: There's some cautious optimism. They feel there's not going to be a finding of criminal wrongdoing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that more indictments are coming that will pull a lot of this together.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The White House rejected the demand to provide any information about those Trump/Putin meetings.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The president does have a right to have these conversations in private if he chooses to.

GARRETT GRAFF, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: We sort of keep coming back to this incredibly strange behavior you only see surrounding the president and Putin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has used WhatsApp to communicate with MBS. One wonders why this isn't being disclosed.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Abbe Lowell is saying whenever he spoke with somebody, he took a screen shot of it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They want to do everything away from the public's eye. It makes you wonder, what are they hiding?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

BERMAN: Good morning and welcome to your NEW DAY. Alisyn is off. Erica Hill joins me. And this morning, we are on the watch.

Look at this. Live pictures from Washington, D.C. On the right is the White House. What's going on inside there? I can tell you one thing. Anticipation and anxiety, because of what's taking place on the left-hand side of your screen.

That is the special counsel of office, where Robert Mueller has been going to work for nearly two years. You can see the cameras set up outside. Why? Because there is the expectation that as soon as today, maybe today, probably today, depending on who you ask, Robert Mueller could finish up his investigation and deliver his report to the attorney general of the United States. That is what we are watching and waiting to see.

It is a significant moment in this investigation and in Donald Trump's presidency.

Now, as significant as it is, there are some things we should tell you it is not. You do not need to set aside hours of reading time today, because you won't get the report today. You will not be able to read it. This is just the beginning of what is certain to be a political fight over what is released to Congress and what is released to the public.

That could take weeks, but as soon as today, starting maybe within a few hours, this fight will begin, and some details might begin leaking out. That is what we are on the watch for this morning.

HILL: We are also following very closely breaking news out of Afghanistan on this morning where NATO officials say two U.S. service members have been killed. It happened during an operation. The identities of the fallen troops not yet released, but the deaths certainly putting America's longest war squarely in focus this morning. We will have much more on that breaking news in just a moment.

We begin, though, in Washington with CNN's Kara Scannell with more on the anticipation, as we all wait for word that that Mueller report has been handed off to the attorney general -- Kara.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Erica. That's right.

Over at the White House, everyone is on edge, on alert for what this report will say. A campaign source tells us that they are beginning to feel optimistic and pretty good about this report, saying it will clear the deck for them. You know, this has been looming over this administration for the past two years.

Another source tells us that they're optimistic that the report will not allege the president had engaged in any criminal wrongdoing.

But one thing is that we don't know is what the report is going to say, but we do know is what happens once the report is finalized.

So what happens is that Robert Mueller's team will give the report to the attorney general, Bill Barr. Barr will notify the House and Senate Judiciary Committees that the report is in. He will also tell them if there was any instance where the attorney general's office had overruled Special Counsel Robert Mueller on any decision-making during this two-year investigation. Now, at this point, Bill Barr had said during his confirmation hearing

that he would then take the Mueller report and have his own report that he would give to Congress.

Now, the White House expects to see that report and may assert executive privilege over certain elements of that. That is sure to set up a fight if there are a lot of redactions that the White House wants.

The -- over in Congress, the Democrats are saying they want this report public. The House voted unanimously for the release of the report to the public.

So we're beginning to -- we're getting to the end game of this two- year investigation. But as you guys have both been saying, this is going to set up the next leg of this and the battle for the disclosure of the report and what we can learn about it.

John and Erica, we'll be standing by.

BERMAN: Kara Scannell described this as just the fourth inning of the game here. But our lawyers have pointed out, it's the fourth inning. You may get a pitcher like Chris Sale coming in to finish the game. Chris Sale being the Southern District of New York. To baseball fans out there and legal fans, that's an analogy they can -- they can think about for a little while.

Kara, thank you very much.

Joining us now, Shawna Thomas, Washington bureau chief for "Vice News Tonight" on HBO. Also with us, Chris Cillizza, CNN politics reporter and editor at large. And Jeffrey Toobin, former federal prosecutor and CNN chief legal analyst.

And Jeffrey, to you. I want to show you what I brought to show and tell --

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Beautiful.

BERMAN: -- this morning. This is an original first-edition copy, government printing office, of the Starr report from 1998. This is not what we're getting today.

TOOBIN: Not at all.

BERMAN: OK. We are not getting this. It will not be made public, the Mueller report. Not today.

We think what might happen as soon as today, Robert Mueller will finish his investigation, deliver his report and tell it to the attorney general and then there will be a big legal fight. What I want to know, though, is what you are watching for, for as soon as today? What are the things and signs that you will be looking at?

TOOBIN: Two things. One is, if we get any clue about the size of the report. BERMAN: Yes.

TOOBIN: Because it -- the regulation is very vague. There is one interpretation of the regulation where this could be a five-page report. Another interpretation is that it could be a 500-page report with 500 pages of exhibits attached.

BERMAN: OK.

TOOBIN: That is very important.

The other thing is, what is the White House involvement in the review process? Because one thing that is a lead pipe guarantee is that Donald Trump is going to claim that this was a total vindication.

BERMAN: No matter what's in it.

TOOBIN: No matter what's in it, he's going to say this proves that this was a witch-hunt, but there is a possibility that he will be able to claim that before the report is even out. So he'll say, "I've read the report. It's -- it's a complete vindication," and all the rest of us will be left with that as the only information.

BERMAN: Just to follow-up on that very quickly.

TOOBIN: Yes.

BERMAN: Is there anything to keep -- if the report's delivered at 9:30 today, is there anything to keep Donald Trump from calling the attorney general at 2:30, saying, "Hey, Mr. Attorney General, hey, Bill, what's in it?"

TOOBIN: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Barr is his subordinate. Mueller is the subordinate to -- to Barr. This is within the Department of Justice, within the president's purview.

And one thing we have learned is that the president does not respect the norms of staying out of criminal matters and investigatory matters that presidents traditionally have stayed out of. So there is no question he will be able to, if he -- or he will choose to, if he wants, get involved in the review process.

HILL: He has done that from the very beginning, as we know. Has put his opinion out there publicly. What's interesting is we know from our own reporting from our CNN White House reporters what is going on behind the scenes at the White House. And that is a lot of preparation for various possible scenarios. Likely some anxiety and a little anticipation as we're stuck with the unknown.

But as we look at all of this and sit and as we wait, in many ways, people's minds have been made up, because of the constant messaging on the part of the president and his surrogates. See Rudy Giuliani.

SHAWNA THOMAS, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, HBO'S "VICE NEWS TONIGHT": Yes. I mean, one of the things is, one, we're talking about a report that, as Mr. Toobin has pointed out, we are not going to see. If it gets delivered over to the Justice Department today, we're not going to know what's in it. Right? So everyone gets to spin this however they want.

The White House, the president, the president's campaign on the outside can say, "Hey, OK. Yay, the witch-hunt is over. Let's see what's in it." Tell the audience, tell their audience, "You know, this proves everything that the president said is right. There is nothing to indict this president. Let's move on. Let's keep running."

Congress can then go and point to their overwhelming vote in the House of Representatives. It was a show vote, but it basically said that they all said that Congress should be able to see the Mueller report. And they can start their drum beat for transparency and everything else.

The thing is, people have made up their minds in ways about this report already. Maybe not you and I and us talking on CNN today, but people who support the president are going to look at whatever reporting happens about this and say, "We still support the president." His base has been incredibly consistent. Right?

And then the people who are kicking the tires of Democratic candidates in Iowa, and New Hampshire and South Carolina, are -- and who really desperately want the right Democrat to run against the president of the United States, is going to say, "Hey, there's, there's -- there isn't enough transparency here. What happened? Why isn't Congress doing something?"

And in the end, we just kind of end up further in our corners. And I know that doesn't address what's in the report, but you and I can't address that, and we're not going to be able to address it today.

BERMAN: Chris.

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS CORRESPONDENT AND EDITOR AT LARGE: I was going to add. Excuse me. To Shawna's point, I think the scariest prospect, politically speaking, for where we are politically is what if the Mueller report changes absolutely nothing?

We've spent the last, since May 2017 sort of operating this broad sense that, well, we'll have some definitive conclusion that not everybody but a majority of the country will accept. What if that doesn't happen? What if there's enough in it for each side to sort of take their political win?

[07:10:05] Because I think Jeff's exactly right. Donald Trump is going to say it's a win, no matter what, even though running down the probe. So if the probe is -- says -- clears him I'm not sure how it's credible now but it wasn't then. But that's a side bar.

I do -- I do think that's the outcome that is maybe the most likely and I think the most difficult for our broader capital "D" democracy, which is it doesn't change anything. It offers no definitive conclusion, and then where do we go from there?

TOOBIN: But isn't Chris exactly right? Because look at every development of the Trump presidency.

CILLIZZA: Yes.

TOOBIN: Whether it's Charlottesville or Helsinki or kids in cages at the border, or the good economy. Nothing changes. You know, the president, the poll numbers, you know, we make it like it's a big deal that his poll numbers go from 40 to 42. That's just noise. His poll numbers have remained exactly the same for two years.

BERMAN: Go ahead.

One thing I am interested in, and really, we're not going to know what that is until a little later. But I am interested in, did we learn a little bit more about Russian interference in the election?

BERMAN: Right.

TURNER: Yes, we are all focused on the obstruction idea, and whether President Trump was talking to Putin every day. He probably wasn't.

But, really, this all, in some ways, came out of the Russians interfering in the election. We are getting into another election now. Are we going to learn more about their tactics?

And we already know what basically almost every intelligence division in the United States has already said is that they did. And there is something to be said for the conversation about, are we actually doing anything about that?

BERMAN: And we knew and know from what Robert Mueller's team has said about this when they issued the indictments of 12 Russians and entities last summer.

HILL: Yes.

BERMAN: Explaining that they tried and worked to disseminate these hacked e-mails, information from the DNC and Hillary Clinton. That has been established in the court documents already.

CILLIZZA: And, John, just one other thing that I do think is important to remember. It's not as though, if Mueller doesn't say that the president of the United States should be indicted, that this probe has done nothing.

It's 199 criminal counts against 39 entities and people. Seven people have pled guilty and are cooperating. Four people have gone to jail. Paul Manafort was convicted by a jury of his peers. I mean, there's already a lot of water under that bridge.

Now, obviously, the question will be Donald Trump, Don Jr., Jared Kushner. I get that. But one of my biggest frustrations, when Donald Trump tweets that it's all a witch-hunt and a hoax, tell that to the seven people who pled guilty or the 39 people charged with 199 criminal counts. Right? There's already a lot of "there" there. The question is how high up does it go? BERMAN: And the other question is how much more "there" there will we

learn? And our friend, Jonathan Karl over at ABC, pointed out a letter that was public; and we've seen it before, but I had forgotten about it and some others also had.

Rod Rosenstein, deputy attorney general wrote to Chuck Grassley, who was chair of Senate Judiciary at the time, explaining what justice will not release to the public.

And let me just read part of this. "Punishing wrongdoers through judicial proceedings is one one part of the department's mission. We also have a duty to prevent the disclosure of information that would unfairly tarnish people who are not charged with crimes."

We don't want to tarnish people who are not charged, Jeffrey. There is a catch-22, or the glitch in the kitchen here, which if Justice feels that the president can't be indicted under any circumstances, and they're not going to charge people who aren't charged with crimes, it means that if they have found some incriminating information on the president, we may not learn it here by Rod Rosenstein's definition.

TOOBIN: There is a scenario where Donald Trump, heads I win, tails you lose. It's that you can't indict me, and you can't disclose any information that may tarnish me. That's a pretty good deal if you're Donald Trump.

So you know, we'll see how they -- how they deal with that. I mean, again, there are so many variables here.

Is -- is Mueller going to release simply a factual narrative? That does not draw conclusions about whether crimes were committed in the, you know, uncharged conduct?

I mean, all of that is up to him. I mean, all of the, in terms of how he writes it and then, of course, the Barr review process. They have to decide how much of that they let the public see.

BERMAN: Right. Jeffrey, Shawna, Chris, thanks so much for being with us this morning. We are all on high alert and then we'll watch this over the next several hours. Thank you.

Breaking overnight, two U.S. service members killed while conducting an operation in Afghanistan.

Let's get right to CNN's Ryan Browne, live at the Pentagon with the breaking details.

Ryan, what happened here?

RYAN BROWNE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, we're being told that this occurred during a combined U.S./Afghan operation in Kunduz area of Northern Afghanistan.

And during that operation, they encountered the enemy, and two U.S. service members were killed; and several Afghan soldiers were also killed in this incident. Now, we're being told by the coalition there in Afghanistan that the

incident is under investigation and more details will be released.

But this really just underscores how dangerous and how intense the fighting in Afghanistan continues to be, despite the Trump administration's efforts to conduct these nascent peace talks with the Taliban.

Now, these direct talks, U.S. officials have described them as positive. They said they've made progress. No -- nothing's been finalized yet. And the talks themselves have actually opened up a rift between Washington and Kabul, the Afghan government accusing the Trump administration of helping to sideline it during these intense negotiations with the Taliban.

Yet, despite all these challenges, President Trump has instructed the Pentagon to begin planning for some kind of drawdown of the 14,000 U.S. troops currently in Afghanistan, where they're largely in advisory roles. But again, today's deaths, the third and fourth in Afghanistan in 2019 for the U.S. military, really underscores how dangerous the situation remains -- Erica.

HILL: Ryan, thank you.

At this point, I think everyone is pretty sure that Joe Biden is running for president. Like 99.99999 percent sure. What his rollout, though, could look like? Who could be onstage with him? Those questions certainly have Democrats buzzing. We've got details, next.

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[07:20:39] HILL: CNN has learned former Vice President Joe Biden will likely wait until next month to kick off his presidential campaign. And that reporting comes as speculation continues to grow about the potential of Biden not only announcing a run but announcing a running mate at the same time. How would that work out?

Joining me now, Robby Mook, Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign manager; and Howard Dean, former Democratic presidential candidate and DNC chair.

Good to have both of you with us this morning. There's been so much talk about this, this week, on the heels of some of the CNN reporting about after a private meeting with Stacey Abrams, could, perhaps, Joe Biden announce with someone, announce a full ticket if and when he actually makes that announcement? Howard Dean, would that be a smart move to roll it all out at once like that?

HOWARD DEAN, FORMER DNC CHAIR: I think it would be incredibly smart. We actually looked at that when I was running, and we didn't do it for a variety of reasons.

But, you know, Joe Biden is of a different generation, and our core of our party is young people, people of color and women, and so he has great name recognition and all that, but he's going to have to have an excitement, because if we can't turn out those three groups, we can't win. And if we do turn out those three groups, we do win. And so I think it would be brilliant to do that, do something like that.

HILL: So it could be brilliant. But Robby, as we look at this, you know, to Howard's point, three things that Joe Biden is not. He's not young. He is not a person of color. He is not a woman.

So why should that part of the ticket if it's so important, why should that be the vice-presidential slot? Why shouldn't it be at the top?

ROBBY MOOK, HILLARY CLINTON 2016 CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Well, and look, Stacey Abrams, I think would make a great presidential candidate. So I, you know, I certainly hope she's given it consideration, and I completely agree with the governor that she'd be an outstanding choice, if that's the choice that the vice president makes.

But look, I -- you know, I think it's really what you stand for. It's not who you are.

DEAN: Right.

MOOK: If someone had told me in 2016 that a congressman who was in his mid-70s, who got to Washington, D.C., before the Clintons ever did would give Hillary a run for her money as an outsider, you know, I would have thought that was kind of nuts, but that's -- that's Bernie Sanders. Right?

I don't think his age mattered. I don't think the color of his skin mattered. I don't think his gender mattered. It was what he was talking about, what he stood for.

So this same goes for Joe Biden, and I think any of these candidates have got to stand on their own. And so if he chooses to have a vice- presidential candidate from day one, that's great. I think there's a lot of, you know, good things about that, but I don't think it make as huge difference in the long run. People are going to vote for or against Joe Biden, not his No. 2.

HILL: You mentioned Bernie Sanders as we're looking at Joe Biden. The two of them consistently polling at the top.

Part of that, understandably, may have to do with name recognition. But you know, as we look at that, Howard Dean, and then we're moving down the road, there are also questions about the need for perhaps some new blood. And that's something that you're hearing from younger voters.

And Robby, listen, I know this was an issue, certainly, in 2016 in terms of a legacy candidate and the expectation that maybe it's Joe Biden's time. Is there still a place in the Democratic Party for that thinking?

DEAN: Which one of us are you asking?

HILL: Sorry. I referenced you both, didn't I? I'll let you start first. Go ahead, then Robby after.

DEAN: so here's the problem with Bernie and Joe's poll ratings. Everybody knows them. Bernie's very controversial, but everybody loves Joe.

These ratings are, there's a ceiling. This is a ceiling not a bottom. So what are they going to say that's different on the campaign trail that people already don't know about them? So I -- I think either one of them could be the nominee for sure, and it's better to be where they are than where some of the people at 1 percent are.

But this thing, for us to even speculate how this is going to turn out, ten months before the primary or eight months before the primary start is crazy. It's fun, but it's crazy.

HILL: Listen, it keeps us all employed. Doesn't it?

DEAN: Yes, it does.

HILL: And Robby, as we look, I actually want to get your take on this. The president, in an interview this morning, was talking about what has become a talking point for the Republicans, as we know. The green new deal. Take a listen to his take here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Democrats actually are becoming a far-left party. You look at this Green New Deal. It's the most preposterous thing. I don't want to knock it too much right now, because I really hope they keep going forward with it, you know, frankly. Because I think it's going to be very easy to beat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[07:25:09] HILL: How much of a concern is there about a nominee or even a party that is moving more and more toward the left, becoming more and more progressive, and alienating voters moving into 2020, Robby?

MOOK: Well, I think you saw there what's going to be a critical tug- of-war in this election, which is Donald Trump is going to try to define the Democratic nominee and whatever they stand for as extreme, and too liberal, and so on and so forth.

The fact that climate change is real is -- is a viewpoint that's held by not just the entire scientific community but by most Americans. That's a view the president refuses to hold.

The fact that we need to do something about climate change is something that most Americans agree with. The president refuses to do anything.

So Democrats can win on this issue. I think what we need to do is make it about the voters' lives, their jobs. How this can actually be an economic opportunity for this country.

You know, and then the other thing I would say is I think Democrats shouldn't talk in broad brushstrokes. We should talk specifics. It's unclear what the term "Green New Deal" means all the time. Right? So -- but I do think everyone would agree we have a climate change

problem. It's a huge opportunity to create jobs, and if we don't take action now, we're going to ruin the future for young people in this country. I think that's -- most Americans would agree with that, and if we stay in that space, we're going to do just fine.

HILL: Looking at the possibility of Joe Biden on the ticket. If we look at the numbers, the chances of Democrats winning with Joe Biden certainly much higher than without, as we see in that polling.

I'm wondering, though, if there's a certain point and, as a former presidential candidate, I think you can answer this one. If there's a certain point where it's too late? Especially when there is months and months of speculation. From our latest reporting, it could be late April, perhaps, for a Biden announcement. With a field this broad, when is it too late?

DEAN: It's not too late if you're the former vice president, and 100 percent of the people know who you are and like you. It's not too late.

At some point it gets to be too late, because voters in the early states -- New Hampshire, Iowa, Nevada and South Carolina -- think, "Hey, you know, is this person who's just taking this for granted?"

But I would say that Joe's got the time. And no reason to rush this, but at some point, April, he would probably get away with, maybe not so much May or June.

HILL: The clock is ticking.

Before we let you -- before we let you go, Robby, I want to get your take on this. So we have reporting, we know about this, a letter from Elijah Cummings talking about some inquiries that were made in the White House, starting back under oversight, actually, under Trey Gowdy, along with Elijah Cummings.

Basically, what we're learning here, in a nutshell for folks at home, is there are significant questions about the use of messaging apps and even private e-mail by Jared Kushner, Ivanka Trump and others within the administration.

As far as we can tell, there has not been a definitive no, this is not happening from the White House. There have been some calls of hypocrisy. Just curious, your take on it all.

MOOK: Well, the hypocrisy speaks for itself. I mean, and in particular because, look, what these guys attacked Hillary Clinton on was corresponding with other staff at the State Department who had security clearances. OK?

We're talking about these folks having private, secret communications with foreign people. With foreign officials. We don't even know, I think, who they were were talking to.

And what it speaks to more broadly to me is how this administration is potentially being corrupted. We talk a lot about Russia and the financial ties that potential are the reason that Donald Trump seems so subservient to Vladimir Putin.

The same could be said of Saudi Arabia. There's all kinds of financial dealings going on. We don't know what money Jared Kushner and Ivanka are receiving. We know Ivanka has been getting trademarks approved in China.

So, again, the hypocrisy of this as it relates to 2016 speaks for itself. I think what we need to worry about now is whether they're using this private, secret channel to corrupt our government and enrich themselves.

HILL: Robby Mook, Howard Dean, appreciate you both being with us this morning. Thank you.

MOOK: Thanks.

DEAN: Thank you.

BERMAN: To be crystal clear, there are -- there is reporting that WhatsApp is being used by Jared Kushner to speak to the crown prince of Saudi Arabia. Much more on that in a second.

Plus this. You're looking at live pictures from Washington, D.C. This is outside the special counsel's office there. There is the expectation that as soon as today, Robert Mueller could announce that his work is done, turn over his report to the attorney general. We are on high alert. Stay with us.

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