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Porter's Ex-Wife Speaks Out; Growing Health Concerns after Chemical Fire; Unlicensed Gun Dealing in America; Sayoc Pleads Guilty to Mailing Bombs. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired March 22, 2019 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:30:07] ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: More than a year after being fired from the White House, former White House Staff Secretary Rob Porter returning to the spotlight last week with a "Wall Street Journal" op- ed about trade. Porter, you may recall, was accused of domestic abuse by his two ex-wives. In response to his piece, one of those women, Jennie Willoughby, wrote an op-ed of her own for "The Washington Post" titled, "Is There Life After Disgrace? My ex-husband Rob Porter shows that is hard to answer." In the piece, she calls out Porter's sudden return to the public eye, quote, troubling.

Jennie Willoughby joins us now.

Nice to have you with us.

JENNIE WILLOUGHBY, EX-WIFE OF FORMER WHITE HOUSE STAFF SECRETARY ROB PORTER: Thank you. Thank you, Erica.

HILL: You referenced that it's troubling in your mind because there are certain things that didn't happen before he came back into the public eye. Notably, in your words, doing the work and dealing with the accusations and the stories that we heard about your marriage and another as well.

WILLOUGHBY: Right.

HILL: What do you think he needs to do then at this point?

WILLOUGHBY: So one of the things that I addressed in my piece that I thought was really important was the visibility of the work that you're doing. I can't speak for any therapy or counseling or remorse or repentance that Rob has done privately, but in order to be able to step back into public service, there has to be some sort of public acknowledgment that what you did was wrong and you would like to have another space, another shot. And I think that's the piece that's missing for me.

HILL: You're already getting some reaction to this op-ed.

WILLOUGHBY: Yes.

HILL: What are you hearing from people about that call specifically that you're making?

WILLOUGHBY: I think a lot of people have been feeling the same thing and a lot of people have been wondering the same thing, how does somebody come back after they've had this type of scandal or allegation or life shattering, in some cases, situation. And what the response has been, I think, is fairly positive in, we do want to see some kind of work being done because we don't want to destroy lives and then not have a path back.

HILL: And you mentioned that, too. You're very clear, this should not derail you for the rest of your life, but there should be a road to the redemption. That America loves a redemption story.

WILLOUGHBY: Yes.

HILL: We did -- I do want to point out, we did reach out to Rob Porter, we reached out to the campaign. They -- we have not heard back from them in response to our request for comment.

Have you heard from Rob Porter at all?

WILLOUGHBY: I have been in fairly regular contact with Rob until about a month ago, yes.

HILL: And how are those -- I mean can you give us a sense? Do you feel that there's work going on maybe privately that you think he could acknowledge that would make you feel better about him now remerging on the public stage?

WILLOUGHBY: That's actually what the majority of our conversations have been about was what -- what would that look like and how might I be willing to assist him in that process. And I'm willing. I am willing to assist him in that process, but the contingency was and is, I need to know that you're doing the work and we need to see it.

HILL: Is he willing?

WILLOUGHBY: He hasn't been willing so far in our conversations. I think he is doing some work privately. And I think he likes to keep that very private. But, in my opinion, in order for it to translate, in order for me to sort of feel at peace with the work that he's doing, I want to -- I want it to be acknowledged openly.

HILL: You're here -- you're in a much different space sitting here with me today than when people first heard from you.

WILLOUGHBY: Yes, absolutely.

HILL: Right. Where you're really making a choice to put that piece out in "The Washington Post," to come and to sit down with us. Do you have any regrets about the way things have happened over the past year plus for you?

WILLOUGHBY: I do not have regrets. I was thrust into the spotlight and I feel like I handled it as best as I could given the circumstances. It allowed me to grow professionally. It allowed me to grow personally in terms of what my opinions were on my -- on my marriage, not abuse in general. And it also gave me the space now to really analyze what it looks like on both sides in an abusive relationship. That's the conversation that I think we need to be having. It was a big firestorm of, oh, this poor victim and this horrible monster. But I know from firsthand experience that's not at all what domestic violence is. There's a much deeper story to be told. And I think that's what I'd like to be bringing to light now.

HILL: You know, it's interesting you brought that up. In April 2017 you said, when I tried to get help, I was counseled to consider carefully how what I said might affect his career. I was told he was deeply flawed, but then again so was I. And so I worked on myself and stayed.

I mean that first sentence hits home with so many people, specifically women. But it is not just women, as we know. Do you think the perception and the conversation have changed it all since you first spoke out?

WILLOUGHBY: I think it brought awareness for a short time. But it was short-lived. In the moment that we're in, we'll call it the women's moment, we have the Me Too movement, it's allowing that conversation to last a little bit longer. But I would really like to see it move further.

[08:35:01] There are so many, like you said, men and women who are unable to speak, who are trying to speak, who are having these pushback. We need to make sure that that conversation is being had on the same level that the Me Too conversations are being had.

HILL: Real quickly, before I let you go. In your piece you ask, is there a place for someone in public service after abuse. What's your answer?

WILLOUGHBY: Once somebody does the work, I think the world provides.

HILL: Jennie Willoughby, great to have you. Oh, sorry about that. Great to have you with us this morning. Thank you for coming in and for continuing the conversation.

WILLOUGHBY: Thank you, Erica.

HILL: John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: What a great conversation.

New concerns near the scene of the huge fire that burned for days at a Texas chemical plant. Why people there are now demanding answers. That's next.

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BERMAN: Growing health concerns and really very few answers in the Houston suburb of Deer Park after that huge chemical plant fire was extinguished.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is live in Deer Park, Texas, with more.

And, Ed, people there are not satisfied.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No, even though this fire has been out since early Wednesday morning, John, there is still some concern. Yesterday there were higher levels of a chemical called benzene, which can be very dangerous if inhaled. There was a shelter in place order that was issued that lasted several hours. And all of this really raising the anxiety of residents in areas around here in Deer Park, Texas, which is southeast of Houston.

[08:40:16] And, in fact, there was a health care clinic that had popped up from Harris County where people could come and get themselves checked out. It was there where we ran into a number of people who said they've been experiencing the effects of this chemical exposure for several days now.

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ALBERTO RIOS, WORKS NEAR CHEMICAL PLANT FIRE: Well, they tell us there's nothing the air, you know, I mean, which I don't believe. I felt -- I felt my throat itchy, my face, my lips, they still, till right now, I still feel them, you know, a little itchy. Like -- like not -- not a burn-burn, but you can feel it, you know?

MARCOS SANCHEZ, WORKERS NEAR CHEMICAL PLANT FIRE: My symptom is like right here. I feel like hot, like it was burning right here. And then I had diarrhea like -- like a couple of days ago. I spit out blood today. This morning, you know. I've just been feeling, you know -- I never felt like this before.

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LAVANDERA: John, those two gentlemen not only live here in the area near where this fire took place, but they also work in some of the nearby chemical plants in this area. So a great deal of concern.

Air and quality -- and water quality testing continues. Not only is the company Intercontinental Terminal Company, ITC, which is where this plant fire occurred for three days, they're doing air and water quality testing, but as well as government agencies and environmental groups are also doing that consistently. And a number of investigations as to what caused this fire is also under way.

John.

HILL: All right, I'll take it, Ed, thank you.

A vague federal law allows unlicensed guns to land in the hands of violent criminals. It's an eye-opening CNN investigation, next.

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[08:45:51] HILL: A CNN investigation finds unlicensed gun dealers evading gun laws and providing a steady flow of firearms to people who are not legally allowed to have them. And many of those guns are linked to violent crimes. CNN's Drew Griffin has the story.

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DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): It was 2:00 in the afternoon on a Sunday, San Francisco. Tarek Oueslati was walking home when a grey Honda came speeding out of nowhere.

TAREK OUESLATI, SHOOTING VICTIM: He didn't stop at all and went through the intersection.

GRIFFIN: The car nearly hit him. Oueslati yelled, then saw the driver and a gun.

OUESLATI: I didn't believe it. Was this guy pointing a gun? What's going on? He looked at me, pointed it again, and I'm like, oh, my God, this guy is going to kill me.

GRIFFIN: He heard a bang. Two bullets fired from a Smith & Wesson .38 caliber handgun tore through his body.

OUESLATI: And after he shot me and I literally was feeling it hitting, the blood gushing, like, shhh (ph).

GRIFFIN: The road-raged shooter changed his life forever. This is that shooter.

EASY CHANG, CONVICTED SHOOTER: That was a really bad period of my life.

GRIFFIN: Easy Chang, that is his real name, pleaded guilty to assault by a firearm and served just two and a half years for nearly killing a man he never met. Why? He was angry and in his hands was an unregistered gun he thought couldn't be traced to him.

CHANG: I had an unregistered gun.

GRIFFIN (on camera): Did that affect your thinking at the time?

CHANG: Since it's not being tracked, I felt like I could do whatever I wanted with it.

GRIFFIN (voice over): The gun Chang fired that day can be traced back to an accused unlicensed gun dealer and part of a much bigger gun sales problem in the United States. CNN reviewed dozens of cases against alleged unlicensed dealers, some who sold hundreds of weapons, a flood of weapons without any background checks whatsoever. Guns often going to people prohibited from buying them because of criminal convictions, because they are drug dealers, because they are mentally disturbed.

And CNN's investigation found many of these guns can be linked to violence across the country, to murders, assaults, armed robberies, suicide.

THOMAS CHITTUM, ATF DEPUTY ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: A lot of the firearms that I've seen recovered in violent crimes have come through the hands of unlicensed dealers. Some get prosecuted. I would say most do not.

GRIFFIN: Unlicensed gun dealers benefit from a vague federal law that says anyone engaged in the business of selling guns must have a license and conduct background checks, except those who make occasional sales for a personal collection or for a hobby. It sets no limits on the number. The problem is unlicensed dealers often masquerade as those private sellers who have few restrictions.

Thomas Chittum is a top ATF official overseeing the bureau's operations in the western U.S.

CHITTUM: The law doesn't require that I know your name or that I ask about your criminal history, or your age or ask about your residency. Only that if I know or have reason to know that you're a prohibited person or a resident of another state or too young to possess a firearm then I can't transfer it to you.

GRIFFIN (on camera): So it's best to not know the person you're selling it to?

CHITTUM: Well, I guess that would be up to the seller.

GRIFFIN: (INAUDIBLE). That is almost laughable. I think people will be shocked when they hear that coming out of your -- your mouth.

CHITTUM: It certainly presents some challenges for us.

GRIFFIN (voice over): CNN has identified egregious cases of illegal dealing including a police officer who sold up to two dozen guns, even guns connected to a homicide in other crimes for years. A Defense Department employee with a security clearance who sold 200 guns to a crack dealer. A DEA supervisor in Arizona who sold a large number of weapons, including one to a drug trafficker.

The vagueness of the federal law is one of the reasons AFT officials say the cases are hard to prosecute, which brings us back to Tarek Oueslati.

OUESLATI: All this area was like just all smashed in.

[08:50:00] GRIFFIN (voice over): It was blown out?

OUESLATI: Just blown (ph).

GRIFFIN (voice over): This is Simms Corner, Douglas County, eastern Washington. Mary Hunt is a former county commissioner. Her husband, Terry, a prominent wheat farmer. Along with their sons, Derek and Rusty, the family's side business for years, according to the ATF, was selling guns to just about anyone. Court records obtained by CNN show this Washington state family were prolific gun sellers dating back to 2009. They sold hundreds of guns at their table at the Big Reno Gun Show in Nevada. No questions asked. No background checks conducted.

In 2012, ATF agents even hand delivered a warning letter to Terry Hunt telling him to stop. The family kept selling. The ATF has traced the guns sold by the Hunts to drug dealers, felons, crime scenes, even into the hands of a mentally ill person, all prohibited from owning firearms.

And CNN's investigation, including an admission from the shooter himself, found that the .38 caliber Smith & Wesson used by Easy Chang that nearly killed Tarek Oueslati, can be traced to Mary Hunt.

Mary and Terry Hunt never responded to CNN. Neither did son Rusty. This is Derek, who asked us to come into his trailer, no camera.

DEREK HUNT: Do you want to come in real quick? The rest of you guys (INAUDIBLE).

GRIFFIN (on camera): That was Derek. He is still on probation for another two years, he says, and doesn't want to talk about the case. I explained to him our story. I explained to him about tracking the guns to crimes. I explained to him in particular that a Smith & Wesson that ended up in the hands of Easy Chang and that Easy Chang shot an innocent student on the streets of San Francisco. And he had no reaction.

GRIFFIN (voice over): Despite the seriousness of the crime and years of investigation, the Hunts got off easy, a plea deal to a misdemeanor, no prison time, just probation and fines. Tarek Oueslati now drives for a ride share company. His dreams of a career in electrical engineering shattered by bullets that left him unable to focus.

GRIFFIN (on camera): Sounds like 've got almost a life sentence.

OUESLATI: Yes. Yes. It's pretty unfair, isn't it?

GRIFFIN (voice over): Drew Griffin, CNN, San Francisco.

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BERMAN: What an amazing trail and what little accountability. Fascinating there.

All right, a Florida man who sent mail bombs to Democratic political figures and also to CNN in New York pleading guilty to 65 felony counts, including the use of weapons of mass destruction in an attempted domestic terror attack.

Brynn Gingras joins us now with the latest on this.

Brynn.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, let's go back to the fall because this original indictment had 30 federal counts and now he's pleading guilty to a superseding indictment with 65 federal charges. So he's going to likely spend the rest of his life in prison. Those charges include using weapons of mass destruction and transport of explosives through the U.S. mail.

In court, Cesar Sayoc spoke in a low voice to the judge explaining what he did and at one point he actually cried. He told the judge in October of last year he made devices like this one made to look like pipe bombs with wires, powder from fireworks, glass fragments and digital clocks and included in each bomb was a picture of its intended target with a red x over their face.

He admitted to sending 16 packages in all to critics of President Trump, high profile Democrats and, yes, here at CNN. None of the explosives -- none of the devices, rather, exploded, but Cayoc admitted he did intend to cause harm. And at this point in the proceeding is when he actually started to cry. He couldn't speak very well and he said, I know these actions were wrong and I'm sorry.

Now, the courtroom, it was filled with federal agents who investigated Sayoc over the four days he continued to mail these devices and attorneys like Jeff Berman, the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York. And Berman said in a statement afterwards, Cesar Sayoc reigned terror across the country. Thankfully no one was hurt by these dangerous devices, but his actions left an air of fear and divisiveness in their wake. Sayoc has taken responsibility for his crimes and will soon be sentenced to significant time in prison.

Of course a judge has to make that final sentencing, and that's going to happen in mid-September.

BERMAN: Interesting that he said he intended to cause harm. I hope people hear that because there's something out there in the Twittersphere making a big point of, oh, they didn't explode. It's not important.

GINGRAS: Right.

BERMAN: He intended to cause harm.

GINGRAS: You know, that was a sticking point for U.S. attorneys in the courtroom. They wanted to make sure he said that. And he had to finally admit it in court, yes.

BERMAN: All right, Brynn Gingras, thank you very much.

HILL: Our 2018 CNN Heroes continue to make the world a better place. We checked in on some of them as they reach even more people in need. Take a look.

[08:55:02] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just since January 1st we've built and delivered 1,100 bunk beds. We've trained 14 new chapters. We're averaging about 15 every other month. We've partnered up with FEMA and the Red Cross and now are offering beds to families that have been affected by disaster across the country.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So many great opportunities have been knocking on our doors. Normally we look for partners. Now partners are looking for us. Before CNN Heroes, we were able to train 400 girls in three years. But with the platform we've been given, we're going to 5,000 in one year.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're everyday people, ordinary people, but with big, big hearts wanting to just make a difference.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: For a full update on what the 2018 top ten are up to and to nominate someone you think should be our next CNN Hero, just log on to cnnheroes.com.

BERMAN: Always a great time of year.

All right, it is potentially a very big day for this country. On high alert for Robert Mueller to announce perhaps that his investigation is over and turn over his report to the attorney general of the United States. CNN is live on the ground in Washington waiting for the exact moment it all happens.

Stay with CNN for the very latest, next.

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