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Attorney General Barr: Mueller Finds No Trump-Russia Conspiracy; Rep. David Cicilline (D) Rhode Island Is Interviewed About The Mueller Report; President Trump Claims "Complete And Total Exoneration," But Mueller Report Does Not Exonerate Him On Obstruction; Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu Cuts Washington Visit Short After Gaza Rocket Attack; Rep. Michael Waltz (R) Florida Discusses Full Release Of The Mueller Report And The Formation Of The "For Country" Caucus. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired March 25, 2019 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[07:30:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It's possible there's evidence of this but, again, it's not criminal? That even if these meetings did take place it didn't break a law?

REP. DAVID CICILLINE (D-RI), MEMBER, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE AND FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: Yes. I mean, I think that's one other option is that there was, in fact, conspiracy or coordination but the special counsel didn't believe it --

BERMAN: Right.

CICILLINE: -- rises to the level of criminality. But again, that's the urgency of actually seeing the report.

BERMAN: Sure, and I understand that. But the issue -- one of the issues here is that Democrats -- and particularly, so many people have said for so long we're going to put our faith in Robert Mueller and what he produces in terms of the investigation, particularly in the conspiracy and coordination -- into the conclusion -- into collusion.

Now, he has done his investigation and has concluded -- we've seen a part of it, albeit a very limited part of it. And the question now is what will Democrats do about it?

So, if the House Judiciary Committee is going to hold hearings going forward, based on what you know now -- and I know it's limited -- do you think that you should leave the collusion issue aside because Mueller has made a determination here and focus on something else?

CICILLINE: Yes. I mean, look, based on the reporting I think that's the sort of place I would lean. But again, it's a really impossible determination to make without actually reading the report and reading the conclusions of Mr. Mueller. Reading the evidence that he gathered in connection with that.

So I think it's sort of unfair to expect anyone to sort of write it off --

BERMAN: Right.

CICILLINE: -- completely. It's clearly -- if Mr. Barr is reporting that accurately, it seems as if they concluded there's not sufficient evidence to charge folks that may be of less interest.

But we still have a responsibility to make sure we protect the integrity of our democracy and make sure we don't allow the Russians or anyone else to attack us again. So we may still have some responsibility to examine the conduct at issue here, even if it doesn't rise to the level of criminality.

BERMAN: And then there's the issue of obstruction of justice.

CICILLINE: We have a much broader responsibility.

BERMAN: There's -- there is -- there is the issue of obstruction of justice and I didn't mean to diminish it because it's a huge thing. I mean, we have seen presidents impeached for it before.

CICILLINE: Two of them.

BERMAN: It is a major --

CICILLINE: That's right.

BERMAN: -- issue here. And, William Barr tells us specifically that Robert Mueller did not exonerate President Trump on that issue.

So how will Congress investigate that matter?

CICILLINE: Yes. This is the most disturbing development, in my view, of the release of this 4-page document.

This is attorney general of the United States, in my view, attempting to shape the narrative on the obstruction of justice claim because he gives a report -- basically, this has been an issue that's been examined by the special counsel for 22 months. He lays out the evidence of obstruction. He doesn't make a conclusion but he goes out of his way to say the president is not exonerated in this regard.

And, Mr. Barr, in 48 hours, turns that around and says oh no, I've looked at it. He's exonerated. He hasn't committed this offense.

Now, don't forget, Mr. Barr applied for this job by drafting a memo on his own -- a 17-18-page memo in which he essentially makes the argument that a President of the United States can't be charged with obstruction of justice. And so, he's sort of fulfilling that commitment, apparently, by quickly making this conclusion and trying to shape the debate.

I think it's completely inappropriate. It really does underscore the importance of us seeing what Mr. Mueller concluded. Why he collected evidence and put it in the report that is evidence of obstruction of justice and yet, didn't make a final conclusion of exoneration.

So I think it's alarming because this was a decision that the special counsel was supposed to make because he's independent from the president. We don't want this determination being made by the attorney general, who is appointed by this president and some could argue was appointed specifically because of his view on the expansive power of the executive and the likelihood that a president can't ever commit obstruction of justice, which we know is not true.

BERMAN: Last question. The president's lawyer, Jay Sekulow, just told Alisyn Camerota he would fight. He would personally fight the notion of the president releasing the answers -- the written answers to the questions from Robert Mueller.

Will Congress -- will you seek to get those answers?

CICILLINI: Yes. Look, I think we have a responsibility to make sure the truth comes out in its entirety and to get not only the Mueller report but all the supporting materials that it relied upon.

The American people paid for this investigation. It's about their democracy. They have a right to know the truth and see all the evidence.

BERMAN: David Cicilline, congressman from Rhode Island, thank you so much for being with us, sir.

CICILLINE: My pleasure.

BERMAN: Alisyn --

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, John.

So what is President Trump's mindset this morning after Mueller said there was no collusion? A former insider tells us what people are saying inside the White House today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:38:20] CAMEROTA: President Trump sounded angry moments after the attorney general released his summary of the Mueller report.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It was a complete and total exoneration. It's a shame that our country had to go through this. To be honest, it's a shame that your president has had to go through this.

This was an illegal takedown that failed. And hopefully, somebody's going to be looking at the other side.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: All right.

Joining us now is Cliff Sims. He was the director of White House message strategy and he's the author of "Team of Vipers: My 500 Extraordinary Days in the Trump White House." Good morning, Cliff. CLIFF SIMS, FORMER DIRECTOR OF WHITE HOUSE MESSAGE STRATEGY, AUTHOR, "TEAM OF VIPERS: MY 500 EXTRAORDINARY DAYS IN THE TRUMP WHITE HOUSE": Good morning. Thanks for having me.

CAMEROTA: I know you've had the opportunity to speak to some of your former colleagues who are still at the White House over the past 24 hours. What are they saying?

SIMS: Well, the mood is pretty much exuberant, relief, feeling vindicated.

I mean, you have to remember, for those of us who worked on the campaign and then worked in the White House, there was always this kind of cloud. There was always even -- you know, you're going out and people find out you work for Trump or you wear a Trump jacket and people start shouting things at you and saying you're a traitor and your president's a traitor and all these different kind of things.

And so, working there is already a tough -- it's a tough environment, and then you add that on top of it, you really don't realize until you leave -- which I have the benefit now of having left and having kind of hindsight on this -- just how stressful that was.

And so, to see this come out that there's no evidence of collusion really, feeling vindicated in that. And so it's a good day for America, frankly, but also a good day for a lot of us who worked for the president.

CAMEROTA: I mean, some of the reporting is that the president, himself, was quite relieved. And I think it's interesting because even if you are certain of your innocence, you never know what the prosecutors are going to find.

[07:40:06] SIMS: Yes.

CAMEROTA: And so I can imagine in the White House -- I mean, correct me if I'm wrong -- that while people were confident, I assume, in the president claiming that he -- that there was no connection, you couldn't be sure.

SIMS: Well, sure, and I think that was where he was kind of coming from. If you're him in this situation, and ever since the day you got elected, basically, people have been saying that you were in cahoots with a foreign power to get that, of course, there's going to be frustration, of course, there's going to be anger, and of course, there's going to be questions about well, what about some random low- level staffer and some quite -- you know, the George Papadopoulos's of the world and what really happened there.

And so, it's just frustration and anger that kind of boils over and that's why a lot of things that the president says publicly about this have matched what he says privately about this. And he's always been very angry and I think justifiably so.

And so, yes, that's where you see him come out right after the news comes out and saying we need to see -- you know, where did the -- what was the genesis of this? I mean, we know the dossier. We know some of the other things that happened.

But I think that frustration boiling over and saying hey, the people who did this -- who put me through this for the last two years, they deserve to have a little bit of a look under the hood, too, and see where their -- what their real intentions were behind that.

CAMEROTA: But just to be clear, Robert Mueller was appointed because President Trump fired James Comey. So who put him through it?

SIMS: Well, I think that the whole investigation preceding that moment is what we're talking about. What was the genesis of this? What was the reasoning behind this?

I mean, I've kind of been a news observer on a lot of this and I've Democrat after Democrat, intelligence official after former intelligence official say that there's all this evidence of collusion.

And, Robert Mueller, who -- you know, two days ago they had Robert Mueller superhero action figures out there saying that this guy's a hero. And now, they're saying well, we don't know about this. We're going to have to see the whole thing and they can't take the guy's word for it.

And so, I just think there's a lot of hypocrisy in this entire thing.

And look, Alisyn, you know, I've been on the show before. I'm not afraid to criticize the president where it's justified, but I think if you're going to shoot straight this is a moment where the president deserves to feel vindicated and deserves to feel very frustrated because of what he's been put through this. And based on the Mueller report, completely unjustified.

CAMEROTA: And so, let's talk about that. When the president feels frustrated, as I think we heard in him talking to the reporters that we just played, what does he do? What does he mean when he says I think somebody should look into the other side? What's he going to do next?

SIMS: Well, I don't know. I think what we've seen to this point is the president normally vents about these things. He doesn't take a lot of proactive kind of action in terms of his ability as the president to direct this, that or the other.

It's more like somebody needs to look into that. And normally, he's looking at the Department of Justice and saying somebody needs to look into this.

And I think if you're him -- again, there's some justifiable frustration there where you say you guys said over and over that there was all this evidence of collusion --

BERMAN: Yes.

SIMS: -- and now, the underlying premise of all of this, it doesn't exist. And so, I think he is saying hey, is somebody in Congress, is somebody in the DOJ going to look at this very unjust and very unfair way that I've been treated for the last two years?

CAMEROTA: Yes. I mean, I guess what I'm getting at is will he be looking for political payback? So yes, he's frustrated but will he be looking for political payback, and who's going to pay that pound of flesh?

SIMS: Well, in terms of political payback, the people that I talked to in the White House over the last 24 hours talk a lot about what this means for 2020 and where we go for here. And I think you are going to see him use this as a political bludgeon.

And a lot of the 2020 Democrats, and still even after the news has come out -- I mean, Beto O'Rourke when out minutes after this thing -- the report comes out and says I still think that there was collusion. It's almost just like this conspiracy theory now that has hijacked the primary -- the Democratic Party for the 2020 election.

So in terms of political retribution, I think the main thing is going to be using this in the election in 2020 in the campaign to remind people that hey, this is their whole premise for beating me because the economy's great, I've defeated ISIS. Go down the list of accomplishments.

They said there was collusion. They said the Russians put me in office, not you. I think that's the message you can expect to hear from him going toward 2020.

CAMEROTA: All right, Cliff Sims. Thank you very much for giving us some insight into how people in the White House, including the president, are feeling today. Thank you.

SIMS: Thanks for having me.

CAMEROTA: John --

BERMAN: All right, we do have breaking news.

A rocket fired from Gaza hit a home near Tel Aviv. The prime minister of Israel is taking dramatic action. We have a live report from Israel, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:46:57] BERMAN: It is time for "CNN Business Now." Recession fears return to Wall Street, overshadowing the post-Mueller bounce that many had expected.

Chief business correspondent Christine Romans joins us now with more -- Romans.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT, CNN ANCHOR, "EARLY START": Hi there, guys. Well, look, there's a recession signal flashing in the bond market that has stock investors nervous. The worst day for U.S. Stocks, Friday, since early January amid these fears of a recession.

The Dow dropped 460 points. The S&P 500 closed down almost two percent. The Nasdaq dropped 2 1/2 percent.

You know, the worry emanated from the bond market. The yield on 3- month Treasuries rose about the rate on 10-year Treasuries for the first time since 2007. It's a shift that scared Wall Street.

A flattening yield curve typically seen as a sign that long-term economic confidence is fading. An inverted curve has been a reliable predictor of a coming U.S. recession for decades.

It spooked stock investors and stocks fell for the week. The feeling here after a strong start to the year, there is risk.

With the Dow up more than nine percent, the S&P 500 up almost 12 percent -- look at the Nasdaq for this year, up more than 15 percent -- you've got all these problems. Brexit looms, a trade war with China bites, and a resolution on that trade war is not certain yet.

On that front, negotiations resume this week, you guys. The Treasury Sec. Steven Mnuchin, the U.S. trade rep Bob Lighthizer -- they go to Beijing for a couple of days -- the talks starting Thursday. A Chinese delegation comes to Washington for more talks next month, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, Christine, thank you.

ROMANS: Welcome back.

CAMEROTA: Thank you so much.

All right, we do have some breaking news.

Israel is blaming Hamas for a rocket strike on a house in -- just north of Tel Aviv that injured seven people. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is cutting his visit to Washington short.

CNN's Oren Liebermann is live where that rocket hit the home outside of Tel Aviv. Tell us about the scene, Oren.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, it was just after five in the morning so, basically, first light here in Israel when a rocket fired from Gaza landed on this home right behind me in Mishmeret. It tore apart the roof of the house as well as sending shrapnel into cars nearby, tearing apart those cars, and damaging other homes in the area.

According to Israel emergency responders, there were seven people injured at the time. Two women were moderately injured, as well as two young toddlers inside the house injured by shrapnel.

As you pointed out, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is in Washington. He was supposed to be there a couple more days. He has said he will meet with President Donald Trump at this point, in just a few hours, and then he will return to Israel.

He's already had consultations with the heads of security here and he says Israel will respond forcefully to this rocket fired from Gaza. So he's on his way back very shortly.

In terms of what Israel has done already, both of the crossings into Gaza have been closed. The fishing area around Gaza has been limited. And at this point, we await the response.

A few things unusual about the rocket -- first of all, the strength of the rocket. This is the farthest a rocket has been fired from Gaza since the end of the 2014 war.

And the timing of it. First light is normally not when rockets are fired. They normally come in the middle of the night and that raises the question of who fired this and why.

The Israeli military points the finger at Hamas, saying this was a rocket manufactured by Hamas inside of Gaza, but we have not heard a statement from Hamas yet.

John, at this point, we're waiting to see Israel's response. It will start in the next few hours, especially as we approach sundown.

[07:50:02] BERMAN: All right, we're watching this very closely, needless to say. Oren Liebermann for us in Israel. Thank you, Oren.

So, do Republican lawmakers still want to see the full Mueller report? Four hundred twenty to zero -- the House voted to release the full report. Do they still want it public? We're going to ask a Republican member of Congress, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: President Trump and his allies say he has been completely exonerated after the special counsel investigation found no conspiracy or coordination between his campaign and Russia.

The attorney general's decision on obstruction of justice -- or statement on obstruction of justice is under scrutiny this morning.

Joining me now is Republican Congressman Michael Waltz from Florida. Congressman, always a pleasure to have you on NEW DAY.

You were one of 420 members of the House of Representatives that voted to release the full Mueller report.

REP. MICHAEL WALTZ (R-FL), MEMBER, ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Yes.

BERMAN: This Monday morning, do you still feel that the full report should be made public?

WALTZ: Sure, absolutely. And I think Attorney General Barr made it clear in this report that he

is working to make it public. That, number one, that he's working through grand jury rules and number two, he's working through national security concerns to make it public. I voted unanimously with every other member to make it public and I think that's something we should do.

But, John, can we just take a step back for a moment. You know, I'm a combat veteran. I've served all over the world in some pretty difficult locations.

I think this is really a win for democracy. There was so much handwringing and breathless reporting on a dictatorship and would rule of law prevail, and I think it -- I think it has prevailed. The American system has prevailed.

And we can't take for granted that this doesn't happen all over the world where a head of state is hit with very, very serious allegations bordering on treason, frankly, and we have another part of our government do a full investigation. But now, we have to accept the findings of those investigations.

By the end of the day, I do think, as Americans, we need to take a step back and this is a big win for our democracy.

BERMAN: Given the Democratic result, as you say here, and given the thoroughness of the Mueller investigation, was it correct for the president over the last 20 months to personally attack Robert Mueller?

WALTZ: Well look, I have always said let's let the investigation play out --

BERMAN: Yes.

WALTZ: -- but that applies on both sides.

BERMAN: Sure.

WALTZ: How many people, up until yesterday, are still calling for impeachment, are still saying there's collusion, are pounding the table that it absolutely happened. And yet, now, we have a report that everyone put so much faith into and now you're watching people pivot away from it and start looking towards other things.

[07:55:09] Mind you, to your point, before the full report is even made public, they're already kind of dismissing it.

And to the second point, I think it's worth noting, as you just mentioned, how thorough this investigation was. I didn't even fully realize it. Nineteen attorneys, over 40 FBI agents, analysts, accountants, 2,800 subpoenas, 500 witnesses, 13 countries that we reached out to. And, of course, over two years of investigation.

So at some point, enough is enough. We have to accept the findings. And I think as a country, we need to move on. BERMAN: And some of the findings that are in here -- and I know these are among the findings that are probably most important to you given your service record here -- is William Barr, the attorney general, lays out how Robert Mueller found that the Russians tried to attack our electoral process on two different fronts.

One, with misinformation --

WALTZ: Right.

BERMAN: -- and two, by hacking into the Democrats. And that shouldn't be overshadowed in whatever political debate is over whether there was collusion or not.

WALTZ: Yes. So there's two key pieces there from a national security perspective.

One -- look, our democracy and the heart of our democracy, our electoral system, is absolutely under assault not just by the Russians but by other state actors such as the Chinese as well, and they're doing it in two ways.

One, a misinformation campaign where -- through social media and other mechanisms. On the one hand, they're supporting a Trump rally. On the other hand, they're supporting a Black Lives Matter rally and just trying to foment discord in our democracy.

And then secondly, there's a government-funded, government-directed hacking campaign to expose misleading and to expose -- you know, obviously, embarrassing information on the -- on the path -- on the part of the different candidates.

That absolutely has to be stopped. I call on the Trump administration to call it out.

I will say and I will give credit -- I have been personally briefed. I'm on the Intelligence Subcommittee of the Armed Forces Committee. I've been personally briefed on what the Intelligence Community and the Defense Department did in 2018 and is continuing to do heading into 2020. They deserve a lot of credit.

BERMAN: Sure.

WALTZ: We did not have the same issues in '18 and I think we're going to be in good shape going into 2020. But we are absolutely under attack.

BERMAN: There always seems to be a discrepancy between the Intelligence Community attitude about the Russian attacks on the U.S. electoral system and the president's public pronouncements on it because they're very different in tone and substance. Wouldn't you agree?

WALTZ: Well, I think -- you know, I'm hoping once -- now that we've moved beyond this investigation and he is not being personally accused of colluding with a -- with a hostile foreign power, which I think clearly there was no collusion and at some point we need to accept that and move on -- I'm hoping that tone and rhetoric will change.

But, I also say many members of the -- of the Democrat Party yesterday on your show saying nothing is -- on CNN, saying nothing is being done about the attacks on our democracy, and that's just untrue. I don't think they're fully informed. A lot is being done and very successfully. I think your viewers need to understand and appreciate that.

BERMAN: I have two last questions for you.

Number one, the "For Country" caucus that you --

WALTZ: Yes.

BERMAN: -- are a part of here. I'm very interested in any kind of bipartisan effort here. You were gathering with other veterans to try to focus on issues that every member can agree on.

WALTZ: Yes. So, look, where do we go going forward here? And I think -- I think everyone needs to decide and I think the Democrats need to decide. Are they going to spend the next few years tearing down this president or are we going to spend it governing?

I co-founded, along with two Democrats and another Republican, a caucus called "For Country." We are about mission, we are about country.

We are all combat veterans. I could tell you the enemy's bullets could care less about political party, about race, religion, and creed. They only care if you're an American or not. That's the ethos that we're bringing.

We still disagree on a lot of issues but how do we get to a point where we could have a beer at night, so to speak, find common ground, and find how to move the country forward.

And that's what this caucus is all about, and that's what I ran on, and that's what I'm all about. That's what every veteran and every member should be about.

You know, we put our lives on the line for this country from day one and I think we should be about for country, not necessarily for party.

BERMAN: If we can't agree on beer -- if we can't agree on beer, Congressman, what can we agree on?

WALTZ: Exactly.

BERMAN: Congressman Michael Waltz, a pleasure to have you on with us. Thanks so much.

WALTZ: All right. Thanks, John.

BERMAN: All right.

White House press secretary Sarah Sanders joins us in just minutes. NEW DAY continues right now.

All right. Good morning and welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Monday, March 25th, 8:00 in the East, and a very different day for the country and for this White House.

William Barr has presented to the American people his analysis of what Robert Mueller found in his nearly 2-year investigation.

END