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Attorney General Barr: Mueller Finds No Trump-Russia Conspiracy; Unanswered Questions After Mueller Investigation; ISIS Loses Final Stronghold In Syria; 134 Killed And Dozens Injured In Attack On Mali Village; CNN Reality Check: How the "Witch Hunt" Went Trump's Way. Aired 5:30-6a ET

Aired March 25, 2019 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[05:30:46] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Staying on top of our breaking news this morning, Attorney General Bill Barr says special counsel Robert Mueller did not find Donald Trump or his campaign or his associates conspired with Russia.

Now, when it comes to obstruction, Robert Mueller says, quote, "While this report does not conclude that the president committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him."

Our next guest has several burning questions about all of this. Joining us now is Garrett Graff. He's a CNN contributor and author of a new book out later this month, "Mueller's War".

Garrett, you have written extensively, obviously, about Robert Mueller and all of the threads, so you are the perfect person to check in with this morning. And you have written an article about all of the lingering questions that you have. Let's go through them.

Number one, the Trump Tower meeting. What became of that? How can -- you know, that's what the public knew so much about and thought perhaps constituted conspiracy or collusion. So what's your question?

GARRETT GRAPH, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, AUTHOR, "MUELLER'S WAR": Yes, and this is, as we said, the top line. We got very clear answers on the collusion front from Robert Mueller and Bill Barr's summary. The obstruction is a little bit more out there. But, together, those represent a tiny fraction of the questions that we have been interested in.

And the Trump Tower meeting, itself, in June 2016, in some ways has been the lynchpin of so much of this, both because of the original cover-up but then also what happened before or after that meeting. Did the president actually know about it in real time?

Mueller has left us, right now at least, with a lot more questions than we even had maybe before the weekend.

CAMEROTA: We also know that they crafted that misleading statement on Air Force One. If there was no coordination, why would they do that? I mean, again, maybe that's in the Mueller report and we just don't know that because it wasn't in the Barr summary of it.

Your next question is what happened to Jerome Corsi, the conspiracy theorist with whom Mueller's team was in active advanced plea negotiations late last fall and who ultimately, escaped without charges? What do we think became of --

GRAPH: Yes.

CAMEROTA: -- that?

GRAPH: Yes. Of all of the news of the last 72 hours, I think one of the most genuinely surprising aspects of the wrap-up of this conclusion is that there are no more indictments. I mean, Barr has made very clear there are both no more indictments and no more sealed indictments. That Mueller doesn't have any cards up his sleeve that we don't know about.

And given the way that some of these conversations have been proceeding over the last six months, over the last year, there was every indication that Mueller was leaning towards -- heading towards additional indictments.

And most famously was Jerome Corsi that we were -- we knew from November-December last year that he was in advanced plea negotiations -- that they had written out a plea agreement. And for him to escape any charges whatsoever at the end of this is really surprising.

I mean, you just don't see prosecutors go down the road of being convinced that someone committed a crime, going through the motions of negotiating a plea to that crime, and then have it all just evaporate.

CAMEROTA: Here's another really big one. Here's how you phrase this burning question.

"Why all the lies and cover-ups by Michael Flynn regarding his conversations with Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak; by Paul Manafort about his dealing with Kilimnik; by Trump about his Moscow Tower; by Stone about his contacts with WikiLeaks; by various officials about their contacts with Russians; by Papadopoulos, and more?"

So, the Barr summary didn't address that.

GRAPH: Yes, and this has always been the evidence for people who thought that there was collusion that they have cited, which is look, the Trump team -- almost every single person involved in this has lied consistently about all manner of their activity in this one specific realm in a way that you don't see, for instance, about Trump's contacts with the Chinese or you don't see with Trump's contacts other foreign governments, adversaries or allies.

[05:35:14] And that this, in some ways, has been some of the most surprising aspects all along. And part of what had driven the creation of the original investigation -- the original special counsel appointment was just the consistency of the lies around this one very specific corner of Trumpworld.

CAMEROTA: Here's another big question that you have that we have not gotten the answer to that I think still just hangs out there.

"Did Roger Stone ever actually have direct contact with WikiLeaks and Julian Assange amid the campaign?" That would be a good one to know the answer to.

GRAPH: Yes, and this is where potentially, Barr's letter and Mueller's report stops short. Obviously, we haven't seen the underlying questions about -- we haven't seen the underlying report as comprehensive as it may be. But, Barr's summary says that there was no contact between -- no contact or collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign, sort of leaving open the question of was there conspiracy or coordination or knowledge between Trump and WikiLeaks, which was served through the 2016 campaign as sort of this cutout between Russian intelligence on the back end of these stolen E-mails.

And, Mueller sort of went out of his way in the Roger Stone plea agreement -- or, sorry, the Roger Stone indictment to not answer the underlying question of whether Roger Stone actually had contact with Julian Assange and WikiLeaks or was just representing that he did.

And this is, again, sort of part of what is just so puzzling at the end of this is that there are so many loose threads of this investigation that we know that Mueller was interested in, that we believe that Mueller probably solved.

CAMEROTA: I mean, by the way, the Mueller report says that they didn't coordinate or conspire with the Russian government in its election interference activities. And some people have seized on that language as being awfully specific.

But, Garrett Graph, thank you very much for pointing out these still- burning questions for us -- John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we have breaking news this morning. Major developments in the Middle East.

A rocket fired from Gaza struck a home north of Tel Aviv. The Israeli prime minister taking dramatic action. That's next.

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[05:41:48] BERMAN: We do have breaking news.

The Israeli military is blaming Hamas for a rocket strike on a house north of Tel Aviv that injured seven people. This is the farthest a rocket has been fired into Israel from Gaza since the war in 2014. Israel has now closed crossings into Gaza.

The Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says he will cut short his visit to Washington. He will return right after meeting President Trump today.

CAMEROTA: The ISIS caliphate has fallen. Coalition forces announcing the terror group has lost its final stronghold in Syria, but those forces will remain on high alert.

And, CNN's Ben Wedeman is live in Northeastern Syria with more -- Ben.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Alisyn.

On Saturday, the U.S.-backed Syrian Democratic Forces celebrated, inside that encampment once occupied by ISIS, victory over the terror organization. But on Sunday morning, I was woken up by the sound of air strikes. Clearly, the job was not finished.

On Sunday also, somewhere between 60 and 90 ISIS fighters surrendered to the Syrian Democratic Forces. But according to all estimates, there are still thousands of ISIS fighters spread across Syria and Iraq -- they're in remote areas. Some of them have simply gone underground. They've blended back into their communities.

And there continue to be hit-and-run terrorist attacks in this part of Syria, as well as many parts of Iraq as well. And beyond this part of the world, you have ISIS affiliates operating in Afghanistan, the Philippines, West Africa, Egypt, Sinai Peninsula.

So, yes, it was a significant day Saturday when the physical caliphate was finally defeated, but the ideology of ISIS still remains. Its affiliates are still operating. So it's a battle won, but the war is not over -- John.

BERMAN: Ben Wedeman for us in Northern Syria. Ben, thank you very much.

New this morning, 134 people were killed and dozens more injured after a group of armed men carried out an attack on a remote village in Mali. Women and young children, we are told, are among the casualties.

Our David McKenzie has the very latest for us -- David.

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John. Yes, one U.N. ambassador is calling it an unspeakable act.

Here's the video of the aftermath of that horrible attack in central Mali, a very insecure area.

Now, the ethnic militia were targeting Fulani herdsmen. Those groups are long-linked to ISIS and al Qaeda groups in that part of West Africa.

The U.N. saying 134 people killed, including mothers, women, children. The U.N. managed to evacuate some of those injured to get to safety. But it just underscores the insecurity in this region.

And as Ben was mentioning, ISIS-related groups are operating in that part of West Africa. It's a complicated fight that the Human Rights Watch says is just spiraling out of control.

[05:45:00] The secretary-general says they must stop this kind of fighting. The Malian president has said he will disband the so-called self-defense units that may have been linked to this attack. But, the U.S. is in that region, particularly in neighboring Niger, where you'll remember that horrible ambush in late 2017. They will be part of an ongoing coalition to try and stop the fighting, both between these ethnic groups and the link with ISIS and al Qaeda -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, David. Thank you very much for that reporting.

Back here, the president complained that Robert Mueller's investigation was a waste of money and time, but how does it compare with past investigations of presidents? We have a reality check for you, next.

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CAMEROTA: Special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation is over after 22 months. So how does that compare to past investigations?

[05:50:00] CNN senior political analyst John Avlon is here with our reality check. Hi, John.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning, guys.

A witch hunt? Not so much. But that's what President Trump called the Mueller special counsel investigation over 250 times and mentioned Mueller nearly 70 times on Twitter alone, invoking a deep state conspiracy calling cooperating witnesses rats, dismissing the investigators as 13 angry Democrats, and even retweeted and image the press and special counsel in prison.

Now, the report's in. By voicing a four-page summary, suddenly the independence and integrity of Robert Mueller seems self-evident. The president's been vindicated on the question of collusion with the Russian government.

Now, there are plenty of questions for the full report to answer, like why so many Trump associates lied about their contacts with Russia. But, bottom line, this is good news for our country, not just the president.

On the question of obstruction, there's far less vindication for team Trump. Despite the president saying the report completely exonerates him, the special counsel says exactly the opposite. Mueller punted to the attorney general on this and it's a big deal because we know from Republicans during the Clinton years that obstruction of justice is an impeachable offense.

So, how does the Mueller investigation stack up with past presidential inquiries? Here's the tale of the tape.

The Mueller investigation lasted 22 months and cost at least $25 million, resulting in charges brought against more than 30 defendants, including six Trump associates.

By comparison, the Watergate investigation lasted four years and cost upwards of $30 million in today's dollars. It led to 69 indictments, the imprisonment of senior Nixon aides, and the resignation of the president.

The Iran-Contra investigation lasted around seven years and cost right at $105 million, resulting in 14 indictments and 11 convictions or guilty pleas, four whom were later pardoned.

And, Ken Starr's Whitewater investigation lasted nearly five years and cost about $60 million. It ended in a 300-page book detailing the investigation and the impeachment of President Clinton for lying and obstruction of justice about an affair.

Now, seen side-by-side we can see that the Mueller investigation was relative brisk and efficient. And the biggest differences in the results, maybe the sun-setting of the independent counsel clause.

So let's put to bed the idea that the special counsel was a waste of time and money. They investigated serious questions about the integrity of our elections and national security.

So what's next? Well, there are still some 17 investigations and cases ongoing, including in the Southern District of New York. House Democrats will follow the money, looking into any financial connections between the Trump Organization and Russian oligarchs.

The biggest question will be when and if the full Mueller report will be released. Given that the White House is claiming complete vindication there should be no partisan resistance to releasing the report.

But, Republicans have been throwing up roadblocks. After the House of Representatives voted 420 to zero to release the Mueller report, Lindsey Graham blocked a vote in the Senate.

Over the weekend, Doug Collins, the ranking Republican on the House Judiciary, argued that it's quote "Not the Department of Justice's job to turn over info to Congress to inform for their investigations."

But here's the thing. Back in the Obama administration, House Republicans successfully sued to get their Department of Justice to hand over documents after they refuted congressional subpoena.

Look, our civics stress test is not over but Mueller's team played it straight, and that's something for all Americans to appreciate.

And that's your reality check.

CAMEROTA: Very helpful, John, to have that historical context and to see how Republicans treated it when there was any question with the Obama administration.

BERMAN: Quick and cost-effective.

AVLON: Comparatively.

BERMAN: Comparatively speaking.

Well, you know, the $25 million doesn't even include the money they're going to get from Paul Manafort, right? They're going to seize a lot of those assets. They could make money off of this whole investigation.

AVLON: That would be the larger P&L of this investigation.

BERMAN: Yes.

AVLON: That's a good thing.

CAMEROTA: If they made money, wouldn't that be -- that would be a great lesson in -- well, just supply and demand, I guess.

Thank you very much, John.

AVLON: Take care, guys.

BERMAN: All right.

Robert Mueller's investigation is over but this fight -- the political fight just beginning to make the report public. What information does Robert Mueller have that was not part of the filtered 4-page letter from the attorney general?

We're going to get reaction from the president's lawyer, White House press secretary, key Democrats -- all coming up on this special edition of NEW DAY.

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[05:58:27] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There was no collusion. It was a complete and total exoneration.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What the president said is demonstrably not true. There was no exoneration, period, full stop.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't have obstruction when there's no underlying crime.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Mueller was supposed to make the judgments. He seems to have punted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Barr auditioned for the job by writing a memo that basically argued the president could not be charged with obstruction. It looks like he's delivered.

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ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

BERMAN: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is a special edition of NEW DAY. It is Monday, March 25th, 6:00 here in New York.

Why is it special? Well, it's also a new day at the White House. We are told by insiders that President Trump is waking up feeling completely and totally exonerated after the Mueller investigation found no evidence that the president or his campaign associates conspired with Russia to win the 2016 election.

Now, his feelings, while understandable, don't line up 100 percent with what we know from the Mueller findings. On the question of obstruction, the Mueller report specifically and explicitly did not exonerate the president. Robert Mueller chose not to tell us whether he thought the president committed criminal obstruction, though he laid out evidence on both sides.

The attorney general, William Barr -- he seized this vacuum to tell us he does not think the president obstructed justice. We're going to discuss whether that was his call to make at all and what Congress might decide to do on that issue.

CAMEROTA: The White House and President Trump's allies are declaring victory over the Mueller probe. Still, the political fight is only just beginning.

END