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Prosecutors Drop All Charges Against Jussie Smollett; How Trump Just Made Sure Healthcare Will Decide The 2020 Election. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired March 26, 2019 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: Hi, I'm Brooke Baldwin. You are watching CNN. We're going to continue following that breaking news out of Chicago. The headline, all charges dropped against "Empire" actor Jussie Smollett. Smollett telling reporters outside the courtroom today that he felt vindicated as he took selfies with fans after this emergency hearing this morning. Remember, this all started with Smollett who is openly gay said two men jumped him while yelling racial and homophobic slurs but in this jaw-dropping reversal today, investigators say that Smollett staged the attack because he wasn't satisfied with his salary and now today the case is sealed, the charges dropped and he is maintaining his innocence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSSIE SMOLLETT, ACTOR: I've been truthful and consistent on every single level since day one. This has been an incredibly difficult time, honestly, one of the worst of my entire life but I am a man of faith and I am a man that has knowledge of my history and I would not bring my family, our lives or the movement through a fire like this. Now I'd like nothing more than to just get back to work and move on with my life. But make no mistakes, I will always continue to fight for the justice, equality and betterment of marginalized people everywhere.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Minutes ago, we heard from the Chicago police and superintendent and the mayor who strongly rebuked the decision by prosecutors to drop all those charges.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUPERINTENDENT EDDIE JOHNSON, CHICAGO POLICE: My personal opinion is that you all know where I stand on this. Do I think justice was served? No. Where do I think justice is? I think this city is still owed an apology.

MAYOR RAHIM EMANUEL (D), CHICAGO: He did this all in the name of self-promotion and he used the laws of the hate crime legislation that all of us collectively over years have put on the books to stand up to be the values that embody what we believe in. This is a whitewash of justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Obviously, there's a lot of unanswered questions, what did prosecutors find out to warrant this reversal, what happens to those two brothers accused in the attack, will we ever have a complete picture of what happened? Ryan Young has been in the thick of all of this in Chicago and, Ryan, I know I emailed you earlier today before you were on tv for hours saying, wait, what's going on? So many questions. How did this happen?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You just want to throw your hands up at this point. I really didn't think we would get to this point and have the superintendent and the mayor on one side and the state's attorneys office on the other side. According to the sources that we talked to, the spokesman for Jussie Smollett, they didn't find out until last night that this was going on. All the things we're talking about, let's not forget that this has been sealed. There's no way for us to go to the courthouse and find out what happened here. The one thing that the mayor was hammering in on, something we have to talk about is the idea there was a 16-count indictment. That went to a grand jury. A grand jury sat there, listened through the testimony of these two brothers and they thought strongly enough to move forward with those 16 charges. This didn't happen in a vacuum, so from the police side of the investigation, let's just think about this, Brooke.

You're talking about January 29th, one of the coldest days in Chicago, in Chicago's history, Jussie Smollett says he went to get a sandwich from subway. He says on the way back two men call out his name, said aren't you that "Empire" actor? He said they screamed, this is MAGA country and he could tell it was white skin. They put a noose on him, beat him and poured bleach on him. From that moment on, people in this city were horrified especially in that section of town. Jussie Smollett indicated to them that they wanted to turn off the body cameras. They went to the hospital. People are forgetting all the details that happened at the hospital. You have been hospital workers who have been hired because people were looking into his health information. 12 detectives find these two men, they get them to turn -- the 47th hour, at the 47th hour they broke these two men, they give all these details to the police department and from there we saw the superintendent come out strong against Jussie Smollett.

He went from being the victim to being someone who was going to be charged and all along we've been thinking maybe there would be a plea deal. This morning we were told to get to the courthouse as quickly as possible. We arrived. We were told that Jussie Smollett was there, not there with his large entourage as usually, just three or four people and the idea that this would move forward if he would step to the Mike and say, I would never do this against my family.

[14:05:12] The lawyer didn't even go after the police department that hard. You have all these questions now, how does this move forward? The one thing you want to get your hands on is that sealed document. There's so much more evidence that we haven't been privy too. You can only imagine what the detectives are thinking at this point in terms of all those man hours that were used and the black guy that was put on the city for a little while. Now you have Jussie Smollett walking free. He gave up that bond. You have all these questions swirling, I would love to talk to the state attorney's office to figure out how we got to this point, what happened overnight, do the brothers get charged? Who knows at this point?

BALDWIN: The twist and turns that is this Jussie Smollett case. You know every single detail, Ryan Young. You have been excellent on all of this. Thank you so much. I've got lawyers and a former police chief standing by to help us understand what's going on. I've got Charles Ramsey, the former Washington, D.C. Police Chief, also with us, Philadelphia, attorney Sarah Azari and Areva Martin. I got questions to, Areva, let me just underscore some of Ryan's points. Smollett when we saw him today in the courthouse, he says he has been telling the truth the whole time. Then you have the Chicago mayor and the Chicago police superintendent pointing to that evidence, right? They reminded everyone that a grand jury indicted Smollett on 16 felony counts, so how did the state then get to this?

AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: We don't know the answer to that, Brooke. I can tell you it's been a bad week for lawyers. I am just appalled that the state's attorney would dismiss these charges and still -- seal the record and not come forward and give the American people more information. Nothing in the statement issued by the district attorney's office says that Jussie Smollett did not stage this entire hoax. They never made that statement. What they said was that evaluated his history and his commitment to doing community service and that somehow exonerated him or made him less accountable for these very serious charges.

I'm concerned about the status of hate crimes in this country. Hate crimes are real. And to have alleged hate crime treated in this way by the police department and the state's attorney and now to see the police department and state's attorney going after each other and us the American people left with so many questions about what happened in such a serious case, I just -- I just can't imagine what the lawyers in that state's attorneys office -- what are they thinking and why are they handling this case and what appears to be the most incompetent way possible?

BALDWIN: But this evidence, right, that's the key you want to unlock this evidence but, Sarah, apparently the evidence is sealed shut, so will anyone ever understand what it was the grand jury saw that, you know, provided those 16 felony counts? Where's the transparency?

SARA AZARI, WHITE COLLAR CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Brooke, listen, I think that part of the problem is with the Chicago police department and also the state attorney's office. They really jumped the gun. They tried their case in the court of public opinion very quickly. They presented a lot of leaks as to what they had and, you know -- then when they sat down with the defense lawyers and saw there were holes in their case and potentially there's insufficient evidence to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, then they may have done the right thing. This is not celebrity justice. This case is well too high profile for a D.A.'s office to hand over a gift. His bail is forfeited. Usually when an individual is exonerated so is their bail. The fact that the bail's forfeited, the money's going back to the city to cover a fraction of the investigation cost and the fact that he has to do community service tells me that this is some kind of a deal even though it's not deferred prosecution. I just think while we may not ever know all the details in the answers like Areva said, the nation's owed those details and answers. But at the end of the day, the prosecutors have to do the right thing. I'd like to give them -- I'm a defense attorney, but I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt and believe they looked at the evidence and didn't feel they could prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt and they thought this was the best they could do in the interest of justice.

BALDWIN: Chief, try as best as you can to put yourselves in the shoes of superintendent Johnson there who is -- first of all, that news conference some weeks ago was stunning. He's angry. He's angry because of the dark mark this has put on his beloved city of Chicago, he's angry because he knows the evidence. I would argue that he would think he did not jump the gun and he says he found out about all of this when the rest of us did.

CHARLES RAMSEY, THE FORMER WASHINGTON, D.C. POLICE CHIEF: Yes. First of all, my hats off to Addie Johnson because he handled himself a lot better than I would have handled myself under the same set of circumstances. This is ridiculous. It stinks. I could not disagree more with your previous guest than I do. This isn't on the police department. They did an investigation. They presented it to the state's attorney, which, by the way, any charge has to be approved by the state's attorney before it can even move forward if it's a felony, then they take it to your previous guest than I do. This isn't on the police department. They did an investigation. They presented it to the state's attorney, which, by the way, any charge has to be approved by the state's attorney before it can even move forward if it's a felony, then they take it to a grand jury who agrees and adds additional charges, and if it was a case -- as far as this public opinion being tried in the court of public opinion, I mean, this is a high profile guy. The media is going to grab on to this. He's an alleged victim of a hate crime. There's noose and made in America hats that these guys were wearing, why wouldn't the media cover it? That's just the world we live in now. That has nothing to do with the police department. This case stinks and somebody needs to take a look at it. Everybody wants to talk about police reform, accountability, transparency. You need to look at some of these prosecutors' offices as well. Something is not right with this and if there was new evidence that came forward, I guarantee you Eddie and the mayor would not be as forceful as they were in their conference and why would you seal it? Nothing has changed other than the fact that this guy got to a judge, got to the state's attorney's office and they worked out a back-door deal that threw the mayor and the police department under the bus, period.

BALDWIN: And the $10,000 is bond that was forfeited, does that cover a cost --

RAMSEY: That's a joke. That's a joke. That doesn't even come close to covering the cost. That's not one day, you know. Come on. Everybody can see through this, at least you should be able to see through it. You just can't justify, why would you not give the superintendent a heads up? Why would you have the court records sealed? I mean, this stinks. I'm telling you it stinks. I've seen a lot of bad decisions or what I believe to be bad decisions before, this one rates right at the top. Something is not right and people need not let this rest because it's screwed up, I'm telling you.

MARTIN: Can -- I just want to add -- I'm typically not on TV supporting the police particularly when they engage in bad conduct. I have to agree with Charles. If we're trying to get to transparency here, the last thing you want to do is seal the records. There would be no reason to do that and if what Sarah said is true, if the defense team presented evidence that made the prosecution's case weak then come forward and tell us what that evidence is. If there is now insufficient evidence to move forward with that 16 count indictment then tell that to the American people and we can't forget this case, an element of this case was a phone call made to a high profile former aide to Michelle Obama, made a call to the state's attorney Kim Fox putting her in contact with the family member from Jussie Smollett. There are text messages between Kim Fox and that attorney or that aide to Michelle Obama and with Jussie Smollett --

BALDWIN: Hang on, forgive me. OK. I thought we had more. That was just the President saying good-bye. Sorry to slow your roll.

MARTIN: Kim Fox did recuse herself but someone from her office took over the prosecution of this case, but again that's an element that I think has to be looked at and we know police officers in the police department have called on federal -- for federal investigation of Kim Fox and her communication. So, all of these things, again, just make it more difficult I think for us the American people to accept that overnight there would be a decision made to drop all of the charges and to seal the record. We have a right, I think, again as the American people to know why these charges were dropped. If Jussie is telling the truth, we should know that.

BALDWIN: To that point, Sara, Superintendent Johnson and listening to Areva and Ramsey, do they not -- why wouldn't you want evidence out there if you are innocent?

AZARI: Absolutely, and you know what? There's outrage over this, there was outrage when Smollett went from victim to suspect. There's outrage over the sudden decision with no transparency, I think we have -- that's what we have the Department of Justice for which does investigations on corruption of D.A.'s offices, of police departments and the Justice Department can look into this file and what led the D.A. to first indict on 16 counts, totally overcharge and suddenly dismiss every single count. There is going to be some accountability because everybody's outraged over this result without any answers.

BALDWIN: Chief Ramsey, I see you shaking your head over there, sir.

[14:15:08] RAMSEY: This whole thing -- it just stinks. I mean, the Justice Department isn't going to do anything with this. Let's be for real. What will happen in the news cycle is a day or two from now nobody's going to think any more about this and everybody's life moves on. If Jussie Smollett were Joe Shmoe, just a guy living in Englewood in Chicago, guess what, his butt would be in jail right now. That's just a fact. And now all of a sudden, this guy is going to not only get out free, my understanding is his record could be expunged. The records are sealed. I mean, this is just not right and everybody wants to talk about police departments and grant it, there needs to be police reform, and there needs to be transparency, that goes for the rest of the criminal justice system as well. People need to come out from the shadows and stand up -- if they did it, then stand it up.

BALDWIN: Chief, here's my last question, everyone's talking about this today and have been talking about this for a while, what impact will this have on the city and its citizens just in terms of trust?

RAMSEY: Well, listen, I would hope that it doesn't, I would hope that people still come forward if they are, in fact, victims of hate crime and that the police department thoroughly investigates and always makes the assumption that the person is telling the truth because in most cases they are telling the truth. But if you've got a person who files a false report and whether they're Joe Shmoe or some high- profile actor it doesn't matter. There should be one standard and one standard only and if a prosecutor is going to make a decision, then they need to stand behind that decision and let everybody understand why they made it. Don't hide it, don't seal it where you find out about it 100 years from now. If the evidence changed, fine. What was the new evidence? Let's bring it on and let's talk about this openly and move on from it.

BALDWIN: Chief Ramsey, Sarah, Areva, excellent. Thank you.

As meantime, this mystery over the Mueller report continues. The Trump administration asking a court to get rid of Obamacare completely. Hear what happens if the law is struck down and why this may have just become the issue of the 2020 Presidential campaign. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

[14:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: One day after declaring victory in the Robert Mueller investigation, even though Mueller's report has not been released, President Trump is back on Capitol Hill and pivoting back to policy as he looks to deliver on some of his key campaign promises. Building a wall, check. The Pentagon telling Congress it has authorized $1 billion to begin new construction on the southern border. Trying to find common ground on rising prescription drug prices? Check. CNN has learned the White House and staff in Speaker Pelosi's office are talking about it but team Pelosi stresses these things are just the beginning stages, not full negotiations. And then there is Obamacare and the estimated 20 million people who have health insurance because of it, they are all at risk after the Justice Department reserved -- reversed course last night saying the entire affordable care act should be struck down. Previously the government said only parts of it should be invalidated and just before, just to remind you, just before the midterm elections, President Trump sought to reassure nervous Americans in saying this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will always protect Americans with preexisting conditions. We'll take care of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Julie Rovner works for Kaiser Health News. Julie, how is this any different than under AG Sessions?

JULIE ROVNER, CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, KAISER HEALTH NEWS: Well, the Justice Department said last summer, this is a court case that's now at the court of appeals and they said that they didn't agree with the Republican attorneys general who brought this case who argued that the entire law should be struck down because Congress in the tax bill in 2017 got rid of the tax penalty for people who don't have insurance. Those Republican attorneys general said that the whole law is now invalid. The Justice Department says, we don't think the whole law is invalid, we just think the parts that are very tied up with that tax, meaning the protections for preexisting conditions, may be should be struck down. They tried to steer a middle course. Now as of last night, the administration's come out and said, Yes, we think the Republican attorneys general and the lower court judge in this case are right and we think the whole law should be struck down.

BALDWIN: So just reminding everyone, an estimated 20 million more people gained health care under the Affordable Care Act, some of the things it provides, kids stay on parents' insurance until age of 26, free birth control, preventive screenings like mammograms, lower premiums and deductibles for Medicare recipients, Medicaid expansion. Realistically, how would the government even begin to fully repeal this?

ROVNER: It is really hard to know. It's not just the things that the Affordable Care Act provided, the affordable care act is now so woven into the rest of the health care system that trying to take it out, could upset things that were not even related. You talked about Medicare. It would be -- they would have to rewrite a lot of the Medicare regulations that are now premised on the Affordable Care Act and the things that were in it. It would really cause chaos and I've talked to experts who don't like the affordable care act who think that this is really not the way if this law ever were to go away, not the way it should happen. There is a lot of concern about what might occur. You -- nothing is going to occur right now. The lower court judge who agreed with the Republicans and said that the law should be invalidated stayed his rulings appending the appeal. Everyone expects this to go to the Supreme Court probably some time in the next year or two.

BALDWIN: To your point about some concern, repeal and replace. That's been the phrase we've heard from Republicans for years but no replacement has been announced and at least one Republican senator says that that could be a problem.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[14:25:00] SEN. MIKE BRAUN (R), INDIANA: I'll have to look at what's going to come along with this whole idea of repeal. If it's just for a flat repeal with no solutions, including saying that you're going to cover preexisting conditions and no cap on coverage, there will be some space between me and the administration.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So that was Senator Braun. What, if anything, could be comprehensive enough to fill the void that would be left?

ROVNER: The Republicans have been fighting this battle since the law passed in 2010. They've all agreed that they want to appeal it and they have no agreement with what they want to replace it with. They could not agree on a replacement. It would be by judicial fiat it would just be a repeal. That's what happens when you go through the court system rather than the legislature.

BALDWIN: Julie Rovner we appreciate you in the weeds on things like that.

We mentioned a second ago, President Trump was tweeting as he arrived on Capitol Hill in the last hour. The Republican party will become the party of health care and repeating that line in front of the cameras.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The Republican party will soon be known as the party of health care. You watch.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: This as a brand-new Quinnipiac University Poll shows a majority of American voters see their 55 percent say they would prefer to improve the health care system rather than replace it. Let's go to politics reporter and editor at large Chris Cillizza. Chris, is Trump right or did they just hand 2020 to the Democrats?

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER AND EDITOR AT LARGE: I don't know if they handed 2020 to the Democrats but I will tell you that they -- Donald Trump and his administration gave Democrats a giant gift as it relates to the Mueller report, at least Bob Barr's interpretation -- William Barr's interpretation of the Mueller report, giving him a clean bill of health in his words than going -- let's go through it. Some really smart guy wrote this piece.

Donald Trump just made sure health care will decide the 2020 elections. People care deeply about and vote on the issue of health care. This is very important. People vote on this, Brooke. This is not Russia, to be honest which is never high on the priority list. Why? Because it touches so many people's lives on a daily, weekly or monthly, yearly basis. Everyone goes to the doctor at some point, gets frustrated, costs are high. What your health care is one of the most intimate things in your life. 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016 and now coming up 2020, these are going to be health care referendum elections. The first one was good for Republicans in 2014, good for Republicans in 2012, 2016, 2018 good for Democrats with the exception of 2016, Donald Trump won. Back to you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: We know that Obamacare enrollment is down only slightly despite the Trump administration cutting funding, making it easier to buy alternatives and Congress eliminated the individual mandate penalty. How dangerous is it for Trump to pick this fight?

CILLIZZA: This is where they get into very dangerous political waters. Because, the simple fact -- this is Kaiser Family Foundation has been doing polling on Obamacare since it was a thing. Throughout Barack Obama's term, it was less favorable. More people looked at it badly than favorable. That changed when Obama left office. Do you have a favorable view of Obamacare, 50/37. They released new numbers for this movement it's 50/39. Many more people have a more favorable view and we know it works in campaigns because as I mentioned, people vote on it. Let's go to the quotes from Nancy Pelosi who you'll remember stay very focused on health care, not Donald Trump. This is what she said October 30th. Republicans will do absolutely anything to divert attention away from their votes to take away Americans' health care. Health care was on the ballot and health care won. That's not just rhetoric. Go to the next slide. More than four and 10 voters said that health care was their top priority in the 2018 election. 41 percent, by far the most important issue facing the country of that group of people who said health care mattered most, 75 percent voted for Democrats, 23 percent voted for Republicans. That's the 2018 election in a nut shell. Donald Trump can't have a margin like that and hope to win in 20 which is why relitigating this legally and politically is not a very smart, savvy political move for the President of the United States.

BALDWIN: We know what we'll be talking about until November of next year. Thank you.

There is another huge legal story breaking right now. Attorneys for El Chapo want to question all the jurors who found him guilty. What are the odds a judge actually allows that?

[14:30:00]