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Sen. Chris Coons (D) Delaware Discusses His Bipartisan Gun Safety Legislation; George Papadopoulos Asks President Trump For A Pardon; New Biography Profiles Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired March 27, 2019 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: They wanted lawmakers to have to look out the window and see all of this very dramatic bullseye that they put out there with a student sitting right in the middle trapped at their desk. The bullseye to prove that students are still sitting ducks, they feel, at their schools because of all these schools shooting.

And I know that you, as you point out, are engaged in attempting to pass bipartisan legislation. So what would that change?

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE), MEMBER, SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Well, there is a practice now where if you go into a federally-licensed gun store and apply to purchase a firearm you have to pass a background check. That means you fill out a piece of paper and you have to check a box that says I've not been convicted of a felony, such that I'm prohibited from owning a gun.

In about 12 states, the state law enforcement agency runs that background check. So if you actually are not allowed to have a gun and you lie and try to buy a gun, they know immediately.

And in the state of Pennsylvania, represented by Sen. Toomey, that has meant hundreds of people have been arrested by state law enforcement for violating the terms -- the limitations on their gun ownership rights that comes from being a convicted felon.

In Delaware and about 30 other states, that's not the case. The gun store runs that background check directly with federal law enforcement and state and local law enforcement are not notified. It is a tremendous predictor that you are trying to get a gun, probably to do something bad, if you are a person who is either previously adjudicated mentally ill or previously convicted of a felony.

So law enforcement leaders with whom I've spoken in Delaware are eager to have this tool. Prompt notification from federal law enforcement when a person prohibited tries to get a gun.

We had a good bipartisan hearing on the Judiciary Committee yesterday, Alisyn, about gun violence notification laws -- exactly the kind of law that if it were on the books in Florida might well have prevented the Parkland shooting, and what we can federally do to encourage and support those laws. I also raised this NICS Denial Notification bill --

CAMEROTA: Yes.

COONS: -- that Sen. Toomey, Sen. Rubio, Sen. Jones and I introduced yesterday and I think it's an important tool in the toolkit for law enforcement.

CAMEROTA: Well, I know the Parkland students will appreciate any sort of progress at the federal level.

Thanks for explaining all of that to us. Senator Chris Coons, thanks for being on NEW DAY.

COONS: Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: John --

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right.

The investigation into the Trump campaign began with meetings that this man took part in. Now that the Mueller investigation is complete he's asking for a pardon, even after serving time in prison. George Papadopoulos joins me, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:36:30] BERMAN: The Justice Department says the attorney general will make Robert Mueller's report public in weeks, not months.

George Papadopoulos, a foreign policy adviser to the Trump campaign, was convicted as part of the special counsel's investigation. He was sentenced to 14 days in prison for lying to the FBI about contacts with two Russian nationals and a Maltese professor. His meeting later with an Australian ambassador also kicked off the counterintelligence investigation of the campaign.

He's written all about it in a new book, "Deep State Target." George Papadopoulos joins me now. George, thank you so much for being with us.

GEORGE PAPADOPOULOS, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN AIDE, AUTHOR, "DEEP STATE TARGET: HOW I GOT CAUGHT IN THE CROSSHAIRS OF THE PLOT TO BRING DOWN PRESIDENT TRUMP": Thanks for having me here.

BERMAN: There so much going on in the news with the Mueller investigation. There is also news with you. I want to try to cover a lot of different subjects.

First of all, the news in your life -- you are asking for a pardon. Your lawyer has officially petitioned for a pardon. The legalities aside, why do you think you deserve a pardon?

PAPADOPOULOS: Well, what I did was -- and that's exactly why I wrote this book. There's been so much disinformation and misunderstanding about who George Papadopoulos is -- how he actually fits into this Mueller probe in the proper context and what he was doing for the Trump campaign and Trump transition team.

So I am simply getting the facts out there for the public to consume, for the media to consume, and then for them to articulate something completely different that has been said about me for the last two years. And based on that, my lawyers believe -- as they are the ones who formally submitted the application -- that there's a basis for a pardon.

BERMAN: Do you believe you deserve a pardon?

PAPADOPOULOS: I would never ask for one, personally, and I never have.

BERMAN: Well, you are. Your lawyers are asking on your behalf.

PAPADOPOULOS: Well, my lawyers are -- well, my lawyers are looking out for my legal interests. That's why they're my lawyers. And it's not my expectation but if I'm offered one I would honorably accept it -- yes.

BERMAN: Any response from the administration yet?

PAPADOPOULOS: I -- my lawyers are handling that issue completely, so they would have to answer that question.

BERMAN: When I ask you if you deserve a pardon it gets to this issue. And I want to read you, from your book here again -- the book which we have here is "Deep State Target." You write about the meeting you had with the Maltese professor Joseph Mifsud. He is the man who came to you with information.

Let me read this. He said to you, "The Russians have dirt on Hillary Clinton, he tells me. E-mails of Clinton, he says. They have thousands of e-mails.

I don't know what this means. E-mails? What kind of e-mails? Revealing what? As an American citizen, I'm horrified."

You write in your book you were horrified. How horrified? So horrified that you went and told authorities?

PAPADOPOULOS: That's a great point, and I did tell the FBI when they came to my house in -- during my initial interview, that this Maltese professor who there has actually been tremendous ambiguity about over the last two years and he's actually been hiding out.

I told the FBI -- I volunteered, actually, the information to the FBI during my first interview with them that a Maltese man named Joseph Mifsud told me this information --

BERMAN: OK.

PAPADOPOULOS: -- and they should look into him.

BERMAN: But, George, telling the FBI when they come to your house to ask you questions is different than volunteering it. You did not go to the FBI or local police or anybody with the information that someone came to you with information that the Russians had Hillary Clinton's e-mails, correct?

PAPADOPOULOS: That's correct. That's also why I never told anyone on the campaign either about this information because you don't really know what to do with it.

I was living in London at the time. I was traveling a lot between Europe and the U.S. so it wasn't essentially like I had an office. I'm hearing this information and I see the closest NYPD office that I could walk to.

BERMAN: But you knew it was wrong. You knew it was wrong that the Russians had the information.

PAPADOPOULOS: Absolutely.

BERMAN: OK.

PAPADOPOULOS: That's why I notified the FBI about it.

BERMAN: You didn't notify the FBI until they came and knocked down your door.

[07:40:01] PAPADOPOULOS: Yes.

BERMAN: And again, this gets to one of the questions that has to do with the Barr summary of the Mueller report here because he writes that "As noted above, the special counsel did not find the Trump campaign or anyone associated with or conspired or coordinated with the Russian government despite multiple offers from Russian-affiliated individuals to assist on the Trump campaign."

So, multiple offers. You weren't the only one who received an offer and didn't go to authorities. Why don't you think anyone came forward with this information?

PAPADOPOULOS: I can't speak for anybody else and I can only speak from my personal experiences. I -- in retrospect, of course, I probably should have gone to some authority when this person told me this information.

But in retrospect, maybe it was a good idea I didn't go and speak to anyone because as I describe in my book, this man, Joseph Mifsud, is no Russian asset, he's no Russian agent, and it's quite obvious that he was working on behalf of Western intelligence. And his own lawyer has said the same thing.

BERMAN: But there is a pattern where people in the Trump campaign or associated were offered information or offered help by the Russians and then didn't report it.

Could it be -- you say you didn't know what to do with it. Were you embarrassed that the Russians were offering this?

PAPADOPOULOS: I wasn't embarrassed, I was shocked. I was horrified. At the time, I thought this individual might have had some sort of contacts with the Russians but he was also very well-connected to the Europeans and to the Americans as well.

Actually, when I volunteered the information about this person to the FBI in January of 2017 --

BERMAN: You say, again, you volunteered it. They came to your house --

PAPADOPOULOS: But it was a volunteer interview. No one was subpoenaing me. I walked down to their office. No one was bringing me down there kicking and screaming.

That's part of the problem that I found myself in and that I should have had a lawyer. I should have kicked and screamed a little more. But that's not the point.

The point is this individual was actually in Washington, D.C. two weeks after I notified the FBI of the nature of my conversations with him. Yet, I'm apparently -- the world has known that it was my fault that this person escaped. So people --

BERMAN: I got you, I got you. But the bigger question that people are asking about you, and so many people -- number one, why didn't anyone report any of these contacts -- which you told me in your book -- you told America you were horrified by it.

PAPADOPOULOS: Absolutely.

BERMAN: You didn't voluntarily tell anyone.

And number two, why all the lies? You were convicted of lying, Michael Flynn was convicted of lying, Michael Cohen was convicted of lying. There have been other lies related to it from the podium at the White House.

Why all the lies?

PAPADOPOULOS: I made it kind of clear in the book, too, but it's very important for me to say it out loud as well why this lie occurred during my initial meeting with the FBI.

Playing this cat and mouse game with this individual, Joseph Mifsud, in which candidate Trump -- President Trump or any of his team for that matter, outside of me, had anything to do with. As I'm being asked questions about this person the last thing I wanted to do was involve anyone on the campaign or the transition team or the president himself.

So what I did was I distanced myself from this individual. I characterized him as a nobody, but somebody that should be looked into because I wanted to basically do two things. Help my country look into this guy, but also not involve the president because he had nothing to do with this person and he didn't deserve the scrutiny of what seemed to be a foolish meeting with this person that I had on my own. BERMAN: I just want to ask you one last question again about how you've been portrayed --

PAPADOPOULOS: Yes.

BERMAN: -- in the last year or so.

Michael Caputo called you a coffee boy.

The president put out this tweet. "Few people knew the young, low- level volunteer named George who has already proven to be a liar."

Did that hurt when the president wrote that?

PAPADOPOULOS: You know, I was laughing when that happened because of the way my status of offense was written. I probably would have distanced myself even more from a former associate and probably said something even worse.

But now, with the new information we have and we actually can read that status of offense with new eyes and with new details, we can understand that wasn't as bad as it seemed at the time. But at the time, too, when you're talking about hacked e-mails, the niece of Vladimir Putin, and boisterous (ph) professors, you would probably to distance yourself from that person as well.

BERMAN: You're a forgiving person.

The book is "Deep State Target." George Papadopoulos, thanks for being with us.

PAPADOPOULOS: Thanks so much for having me.

BERMAN: Alisyn --

CAMEROTA: All right, John.

Did Pope Francis just reveal to the world how he really feels about this longstanding Catholic tradition of kissing the ring? Wait until you see how many times he won't let people kiss his ring. Nope, not going to kiss it -- nope -- no.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:48:00] CAMEROTA: OK, now to some important headlines.

India shot down a live satellite in low earth orbit as part of a successful test of new missile technology. India's prime minister is now declaring itself a space power alongside the U.S., Russia, and China.

The announcement comes weeks after India engaged in aerial clashes with Pakistan over the disputed border of Kashmir.

BERMAN: The drugmaker Purdue Pharma has agreed to pay $270 million to settle a lawsuit brought by the State of Oklahoma. The suit alleges the company helped create the nation's opioid crisis with aggressive marketing of OxyContin and deceptive claims downplaying the dangers of addiction.

Oklahoma is one of 36 states to file lawsuits against Purdue Pharma and other opioid drugmakers.

CAMEROTA: A robber is caught on video messing with the wrong people. The armed man approaches this group of spring breakers at a Florida gas station, but the tables quickly turn and the men tackle the suspect and at one point, pin him to the ground and punch him.

The suspect, though, does manage to get away but he was later arrested. Police are still looking for a second suspect.

BERMAN: All right. We have some video which is making a lot of waves on social media and it involves Pope Francis -- look at this -- repeatedly pulling his hand away from people trying to kiss his papal ring. So, some conservative Catholics are calling this disturbing that the Pope appears to reject their reverence.

A lot of supporters of the Pope say the minute-long clip is being taken out of context. They say Pope Francis received people for about 13 minutes. Some people did kiss his ring.

Wow -- every time, pulling away there. Some even embraced and kissed him on the cheek. I will say embracing and kissing on the cheek is different than kissing the ring.

You know, look, people look at Pope Francis and look at his roots and say he wants to instill humility in the papacy there, so there is this real debate about whether or not he should have let more people kiss his ring or not.

[07:50:05] CAMEROTA: Well, there's another explanation that I read, which is that he was in a rush --

BERMAN: It could clearly be that (ph).

CAMEROTA: -- and he was trying to speed along the sort of receiving line. He wanted to go over and greet people in a different area with disabilities.

But I just -- the visual is so funny. No, not so fast.

BERMAN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: No, you don't. Uh-uh.

BERMAN: He had enough -- he had enough.

CAMEROTA: I guess so.

BERMAN: All right. The new fight over Obamacare sparking a heated debate inside the president's cabinet. This comes as we learn exclusive new details of the efforts to save Obamacare inside the Supreme Court. That's next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: CNN has learned that the Trump administration's push to strike down Obamacare has sparked a heated debate among even the president's team. This, after CNN exclusively reported that Chief Justice John Roberts switched his vote on the Affordable Care Act twice, saving President Obama's signature legislation.

[07:55:02] What is the backstory of how Chief Justice Roberts switched his vote? Well, it is covered in the stunning new biography, "The Chief: The Life and Turbulent Times of Chief Justice John Roberts" by our award-winning Supreme Court analyst, Joan Biskupic. The book came out yesterday.

Great to have you, Joan.

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SUPREME COURT ANALYST, AUTHOR, "THE CHIEF: THE LIFE AND TURBULENT TIMES OF CHIEF JUSTICE JOHN ROBERTS": Great to be with you down in D.C.

CAMEROTA: It is nice. Congrats on the book.

BISKUPIC: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: OK, what's the backstory here? So, the conventional wisdom was the Chief Justice John Roberts did not like the Affordable Care Act and would vote against it, but that's not what happened.

BISKUPIC: He did, initially, Alisyn. After three days or oral arguments going back to 2012 -- now remember, it's an election year -- all eyes on the Supreme Court. What are these nine justices going to do about President Obama's great domestic achievement?

John Roberts, in a private meeting after those three days of arguments, voted to strike it down.

CAMEROTA: So first, they vote privately.

BISKUPIC: Oh, they always vote privately right after oral arguments, right.

CAMEROTA: OK.

BISKUPIC: And he voted to strike it down -- it was five to four for that -- in terms of the individual insurance requirement. But he also voted to uphold the Medicaid expansion part that so many people are talking about today.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BISKUPIC: That's the part that helps millions of poor people across the country.

CAMEROTA: So then what happened?

BISKUPIC: Then, before the opinion came out in late June -- that was -- the initial vote was in March -- there were all these negotiations and John Roberts had second thoughts about whether he wanted to strike it down.

And he starts looking for other ways to potentially uphold it and ends up deciding that it can be upheld based on Congress's taxing power rather than its power to regulate commerce as the initial arguments were. But then he also switches his vote to then strike down the Medicaid expansion.

And this all goes on behind the scenes -- lots of drama, lots of tensions, and it still has fallout at the old marble palace today.

CAMEROTA: That's really interesting. So what does that tell us about Chief Justice Roberts? That he is susceptible to being persuaded? That he's flexible? That he is -- can't make up his mind?

What does it tell us?

BISKUPIC: No, no, no. It's that he has the larger context in mind. That there are many factors.

You know, during his confirmation hearings in 2005, he famously talked about the umpire model and just calling balls and strikes as he goes to each case. But there really is a larger dynamic.

And remember, he's chief justice. He, himself, has said that he probably would be voting different these days if he was just an associate justice, but he has institutional concerns.

And as I said, it was an election year. There was a lot of pressure on the court.

And what he came to decide is that if that law could be upheld, they would uphold it. But he couldn't do it with the coalition that was on the right wing that originally wanted to strike it down. He had to work with liberal justices.

And, Justices Stephen Breyer and Elena Kagan worked out the compromise and then they switched their votes on Medicaid to strike that down.

CAMEROTA: This is a really interesting backstory.

BISKUPIC: Right.

CAMEROTA: I mean, the book is filled with these. And so, does it tell us what will happen now? I mean, now that the news about the Affordable Care Act --

BISKUPIC: Right.

CAMEROTA: -- that the Department of Justice is trying to strike it down wholesale -- does that -- I mean --

BISKUPIC: I think --

CAMEROTA: -- tell us what's going to happen in the Supreme Court? BISKUPIC: What is suggests, given what we know happened in 2012 now, is that many other factors will be coming into play.

And remember, the chief also recently said there are no such thing as Obama judges, Trump judges. He does not want this court to look political in this very political fight emerging in such a polarized time.

CAMEROTA: And so, that brings us to Brett Kavanaugh. So after all of the scandal surrounding his confirmation, how is he doing on the court?

BISKUPIC: He is trying to stay in the background. Not make himself look like some sort of right-wing zealot as he might have been portrayed during the confirmation hearings. Trying not to be so controversial during oral arguments, such as yesterday during the partisan gerrymandering case.

He'll ask questions of both sides. He doesn't want to have his hand tipped.

He has become a bit of a partner to John Roberts in the middle of the court in some cases, but I think he will still overall, Alisyn, be a reliable conservative for the Trump administration.

CAMEROTA: You can read all about it in Joan's fabulous new book called "The Chief." Thanks so much for giving us all the scoop today.

BISKUPIC: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: All right. New details of the rift inside the Trump cabinet over Obamacare.

NEW DAY continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Republican Party will soon be known as the party of health care.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), SENATE MINORITY LEADER: The Trump position ties a 2-year anchor around the neck of every Republican for the next two years.

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: This is something I vehemently disagree with.

MAYOR RAHM EMANUEL, CHICAGO, ILLINOIS: This is, without a doubt, a whitewash of justice. It is wrong, full stop.

JUSSIE SMOLLETT, ACTOR: I've been truthful and consistent on every single level since day one.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was no political influence in this case. Nobody has found him guilty.

EDDIE JOHNSON, SUPERINTENDENT, CHICAGO POLICE DEPARTMENT: Do I think justice was served? No. This city is owed an apology.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Wednesday, March 27th, 8:00 here in Washington.

END