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HALA GORANI TONIGHT
British Lawmakers to Hold New Brexit Debate Friday; Picture of Theresa May Dominates UK Press; Russia Defies Trump's Call to Get Out of Venezuela; Dialysis Patients Suffer in Venezuela; Trump Says Feds Will Review Jussie Smollett Case; Business Group Expresses Frustration over Brexit Impasse; British Voters Watch Turmoil In Parliament; Revisiting Tragedy And Courage Of Grenfell Tower; Facebook Banning White Nationalism After New Zealand Attack; Far-Right Gaining Ground In Mainstream Politics In Europe; U.S. Proposes Cutting Funding For Special Olympics In Schools. Aired 1-2p ET
Aired March 28, 2019 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:00:00] HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Live from London, I'm Hala Gorani. Tonight, confusion over whether Theresa May will bring
forward her Brexit vote again. She is scrambling around for enough votes. I'll speak to one of the MPs standing firmly in her way. What will it take
to change their minds? Also, it is the case everyone has been talking about. Now the easy President is weighing in. What Donald Trump had to
say about Jussie Smollett. That's coming up. Also, this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FIREFIGHTER: It was just you know, let's do this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Running into the fire. As part of our "LIFE CHANGER" series I speak to a firefighter who risked everything to help those trapped in a
deadly London inferno.
We begin with Brexit which remains at an impasse. It looks like the Prime Minister's twice defeated withdrawal agreement could come back tomorrow or
so the leader has indicated. With most things related to Brexit, it's not exactly clear. She confirmed the Brexit debate will continue tomorrow.
It's a case of back me or sack me with the Prime Minister promising to resign if her deal passes. Of course, that is a pretty big if. It doesn't
appear as if she has the numbers right now. We are expecting an announcement shortly about what will happen tomorrow. Will a deal, will a
vote on the deal happen?
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A much awaited announcement from Andrea Leadsom, the leader of the House. What is expected and what has
been drip fed throughout Westminster today because that's how you get information these days is the notion that the deal will be brought back but
in a different format. Instead of May's deal which is currently a package of the withdrawal agreement so the divorce deal plus the future
relationship or political declaration, they'll slice that in half. Not quite in half.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: She is speaking now. Let's listen in.
ANDREA LEADSOM, CONSERVATIVE PARTY, LEADER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS: I know how important constituency work is to all of us. I regret not being able
to give more notice. I do however believe all our constituents expect the House to make progress at this time. To be of assistance to the House I
can again confirm should the House agree this motion, it is intended the sitting House tomorrow will be the same as for a normal sitting Friday with
the House sitting from 9:30 a.m. and the moment of interruption at 2:30 p.m. should any urgent questions be allowed, these would take place from
11:00 a.m. and the debate would resume following those urgent questions in the usual way. As I said earlier today in my business statement, I also
join those who recognize the hard work and dedication of the staff of the House and of our civil servants. I thank them for their support to us in
this place and I'm very grateful to them in advance for their work tomorrow should this motion be agreed. As I said to the House during my business
statement earlier today, the motion tabled by the government this afternoon has been prepared in order that it complies with your ruling, Mr. Speaker,
whilst also reflecting the European Union will only agree to an extension to article 50 until the 22nd of May, if the withdrawal agreement is
approved by 11:00 p.m. on the 29th of March. It's crucial therefore that we make every effort to give effect to the council's decision. And
tomorrow's motion gives Parliament the opportunity to secure that extension. I think we can all agree that we don't want to be in the
situation of asking for another extension and facing the potential requirement of participating in European Parliament elections. I'll give
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could she just read out the motion so we know what we're going to be debating tomorrow?
LEADSOM: Well, I can say to the honorable gentleman that the motion has been tabled. He'll receive it in the table office. I'm happy to -- this
is quite lengthy. If members will bear with me. This House notes the European Council decision of the 22nd of March 2019 taken in agreement with
the United Kingdom expending the period under article 53 of the treaty on European Union which provides extension to the article 50 period to the
22nd of May, 2019. Only if the House of Commons approves the withdrawal agreement --
[13:05:00] GORANI: Bianca, what is going on?
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The leader of the House confirmed withdrawal agreement will be returned tomorrow and voted and hopefully it
GORANI: I thought the speaker said it had to be significantly different.
NOBILO: The is the second crucial thing, John Bercow said he's happy to report that this version of Theresa May's deal because he's split off the
political declaration meets his test for being substantially different from the last meaningful vote. He's happy for it to go ahead tomorrow.
GORANI: If it passes, then what?
NOBILO: If it passes technically the EU should approve the extension to the 22nd because in the EU's guidelines they do mention the political
declaration. They only mention with the draw agreement. What the government has done today is only focus on legally binding aspect, the
aspect that deals with the transition, the money and loose ends and not focus on the political declaration on the future relationship because
that's where things get messy because that's where discussions about a customs union or being able to be trade globally, how closely aligned the
relationship is, you get into all of that.
GORANI: Why is she doing this if she doesn't have the numbers?
NOBILO: They're obviously taking a punt that they may have the numbers. It's a problem because the DUP haven't softened their stance in the last 24
hours. I was speaking to members of the Vote Leave Campaign who were critical and architects of it. They had lunch with two members of the DUP
yesterday and reaffirmed they were sticking to their guns and aren't going to support with the draw agreement in its current form and referred to the
other members of may's party as turncoats. That's not looking good. However, the situation is fluid as every lawmaker here will remind you.
GORANI: You have to be realistic. If you don't have the numbers you don't have the numbers. Third defeat, this is it. This is it.
NOBILO: Other conservative lawmakers I've spoken to, I'm sure you have, as well emphasized they may be able to get this through with Labour numbers.
That could be slightly optimistic when you consider that only three Labour MPs voted for the deal at the first and second attempts. Now granted this
is slightly different but I think it's hard to seeing this through without the support of the DUP. Because that is the first domino to fall.
GORANI: Absolutely. We'll keep following this. Bianca, don't go far away. I know we'll get more updates what will happen tomorrow and you'll
be speaking to sources whether or not the numbers are shifting because they have 18 hours to pull the rabbit out of the hat.
NOBILO: Two weeks in Brexit politics.
GORANI: That's right. Many hope after Parliament took control of the process, there had be some clarity and some unity. Yet again Wednesday
night, it ended with more confusion and division. Members of participant had the chance to vote on eight separate alternatives to the priority's
plan. Each and every proposal was shot down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BERCOW, SPEAKER OF PARLIAMENT: The ayes were 160. The noes were 400. So, the noes have it. So, noes have it. So, the noes have it. So, the
noes have it. So, the noes have it. So, the noes have it. So, the noes have it. So, the noes have it. Order. Order. Order.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: One of the proposals that came close to succeeding was a plan for a permanent customs union with the EU. That proposal fell short.
Interesting by eight votes. A new referendum won the highest number of yes votes. MPs are planning to hold more votes on Monday in case you haven't
had enough. One picture dominated the U.K. papers this morning. May leaving Parliament last night after offering to quit as Prime Minister to
get her deal passed. She is sitting in the back of a car being driven through the gates of Westminster alongside the headlines asking what more
does she have to do and will her sacrifice be in vain? There's a selection on your screen there. So, what was it about that picture that made editors
around the country put it front and center? Fraser Nelson is the editor of the British magazine "The Spectator," which has a may related front page.
You brought this with you. I'm going to show "The Spectator's" front cover. It's a pair of leopard print stilettos.
FRASER NELSON, EDITOR OF THE BRITISH MAGAZINE "THE SPECTATOR": Her trademark.
GORANI: After May, what is after May?
NELSON: This is the big question. She is going no matter when whether she passes the deal or not, she will not be Prime Minister of this country
longer. And then the conservative party have to work out who, what, is it possible to piece themselves together. Can you stop a general election if
there's going to be an election because the Conservative party wouldn't do well because they did not deliver the Brexit they promised? You might get
the of populism. All of that might change. So, the Tories have a small window to come up with an answer what replace her. But need an agenda to
show they deliver the Brexit they promised. You might get the of populism. All of that might change. So, the Tories have a small window to come up
with an answer what replace her. But need an agenda so she they can get back together after fighting each other like rats in a sack.
[13:10:00] GORANI: It doesn't look like that's going to happen. I'm interviewing a hard line Brexiter, Mark Francois, who said he would shoot
himself in the face or head rather than support the deal.
NELSON: He's a great one for military analogies. There are a few others like him, as well. Then again, there are hardly any of them left now.
Jacob Rees-Mogg he wants to back her deal. Boris Johnson wants to back her deal. They're getting now behind it. All they need is enough labor MPs to
compensate for people like Mark Francois. And if the DUP thinks there's a chance, they will probably switch, as well.
GORANI: This was all political all along. It wasn't about the deal, was it? You have the Boris Johnson type conservative figures all along said
this was a terrible deal and this is for the sake of the country we're opposing it, but the Prime Minister promises to leave. They see an opening
perhaps for themselves and now all of a sudden, the deal is palatable.
NELSON: I'm not quite as cynical as that. They don't like the deal. Even now everybody thinks the deal is not a good deal. The question is whether
the alternatives are worse. What has become clear in the last couple days, this Parliament behind us would vote to revoke Brexit entirely. Rather
than a no deal Brexit. If that were the choice that would abolish the whole thing can imagine how ugly the democratic backlash would be.
GORANI: The indicative votes that got the most support was particularly the one that caught my eye, the one favoring a customs union failed by own
eight votes. That's not a hard Brexit at all still being a member of the customs union. Could that gain enough traction?
NELSON: I doubt it. Cabinet members didn't take part in that vote. Had they voted against it, the defeat would have been much larger. The House
of Commons cannot have a majority for any other course of action. There are only three options left, leave without a deal. Majority of MPs would
stop it and they would stop it by revoking Brexit if they could. People like Jacob Rees-Mogg, you can't call him a wimp, even he will back May's
deal rather than risk having Brexit revoked. That's what they think the choice is now.
GORANI: We've being drowned out today. Very feisty today on both sides of the argument. This picture as you used by, I wonder as an editor, the left
leaning "Guardian," "The Daily Mail" which is certainly on the opposite political spectrum, side of the political spectrum, also using that
picture. What would an attract magazine editors to this photo?
NELSON: It's her face. You can see here she is defeated. Yet resolute. All this moistening of the eyes there. This is what a leader looks like
when the game is up. Where we've seen them Margaret Thatcher when she left for the last time, there was a famous picture of her looking a bit like
GORANI: This was kind of like an homage to the Margaret Thatcher photo when she knew her position was untenable. It's not over. It's not over.
GORANI: We've seen turnarounds.
NELSON: We have. We've also seen Theresa May survive situations stickier than this.
GORANI: Because if you said is if the hard-core, the hard line Brexiters like Rees-Mogg are coming to the realization they back this deal or might
not get any kind of Brexit, maybe she will get the numbers.
NELSON: I think there's a good chance she will get numbers tomorrow. And then even if she fails, she might try it for a fourth time. I wouldn't
rule that out either. Whatever is the alternative to no deal will win. We're in a very rare situation in British politics where it's difficult to
predict in the morning what the afternoon will look like. Anybody predicting two or three days ahead is being rather bold.
GORANI: Frazier Nelson, thanks very much. Thanks for joining us.
[13:15:01] Russia says its troops will stay in Venezuela as long as they're needed there. Two planes carrying Russian forces arrived in Caracas
prompting U.S. President Donald Trump to tell Russia to get out of Venezuela. It happened in the oval office when he was hosting the wife of
Juan Guaido. A Kremlin spokesperson pointed out no one tells the U.S. where its troops can go. Don't tell Russia. Paul Newton is live with the
very latest. What are these Russian troops doing in Venezuela exactly?
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good question. The Kremlin says there is a long-standing military operation deal we have had. There's no doubt that
this is an escalation. No question at this point. As much as those kind words come from the foreign ministry and also the Kremlin spokesperson
saying look, we are not trying to destabilize any kind of geopolitical arena here, the United States clearly Donald Trump thinks otherwise. Look,
Hala, the Russia being so involved in Venezuela right now with this political stalemate in America's backyard has been destabilizing in terms
of what they're doing here, many suspect it is an advisory role. It is true that Venezuela has a lot of Russian equipment here in terms of
military equipment. They may be taking a look at that. U.S. sources saying that look, he believes this has something to do with cyber security.
The point here is that this is quickly becoming another political stalemate between Russia and the United States. Something that as you know we have
seen so many times around the world. At this point, Russia backing Maduro. The United States backing Juan Guaido. Where does it go from here? A lot
of people want to know because at this point, both sides seem to be digging in with no clear resolution on how to move forward as the Venezuelan
economy continues to collapse. Hala?
GORANI: And there are still major issues with blackouts, as well. That's just a huge problem for hospitals and just for ordinary people to go about
NEWTON: Yes, absolutely. Look, there is the second nationwide blackout we're now recovering from today. But I want you to listen to some people I
spoke to waiting for dialysis. You will hear the desperation in their voices. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We urgently need a generator here permanently.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): My life and the life of everyone here depends on that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): It's been more than eight days since I had dialysis. You can see on my face what my situation is like. I
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: You certainly feel the panic speaking to that man, Hala, because he feels as if his body is crumbling and he needs that dialysis. I can
tell you it's a daily scavenger hunt for the basics even things like dialysis. Maduro is saying we don't know if we can bring stable power to
this country and asking people to be patient. That is one thing they do not have at this point. Patience. And many people realize it is both
socially and politically destabilizing the longer these blackouts go on. Hala?
GORANI: All right. Paula Newton live in Caracas. Thank you very much for joining us. Still to come tonight, U.S. President steps into the case
involving an actor, Jussie Smollett. And he's sending some legal big guns. We'll be right back.
[13:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Starting next week Brunei will now introduce brutal penalties for actions not even considered a crime in most of the world. Gay sex and
adultery will be punishable by death by stoning April 3rd. Brunei follows a very strict version of Sharia law which includes corporal punishments.
Human rights groups are outraged. The Austrian chancellor says it is cruel and inhumane. The U.K. calling it barbaric.
In the U.S., President Donald Trump is weighing in on a case involving actor Jussie Smollett. He tweeted Thursday that the FBI and his Justice
Department will review the case. After prosecutors dropped all charges against Smollett, drawing a massive backlash. Smollett accused of staging
a hate crime against himself. President Trump said the way the case was handled was "an embarrassment." Let's talk more about the ramifications of
federal involvement. I'm joined by Joey Jackson coming to us live from New York. What are, first of all, tell us what the President tweeted and what
the implications are for the case.
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I'll say this to you. Good to be with you. There's a major political component to that and then we'll get to the
law. Let's unpack it in the following way. Apparently, the President weighed in via tweet with regard to what you said by saying it's an
embarrassment to the country and that the federal government is going to be involved. First politically as we look at that, FBI and DOJ, so the
bottom-line FBI federal bureau of investigations DOJ Department of Justice are the federal entities in the United States which go and might
investigate matters. Let's talk politics. You might remember when this first came out there were allegations whether they said MAGA country.
There are tinges of politics associated with this. The feeling he was perhaps attacked by people who supported Trump. Obviously, that angered
Trump supporters. This is the President's pushback politically plays well to his base politically to say we're stepping in now. That's the politics
behind it. From a legal perspective, there's very little for the Department of Justice to do. Let me explain. This was a local prosecution
involving local alleged crimes. In that regard, you have a local county attorney that deals with those crimes. Now, the world may not be pleased
with how it was handled. The lack of transparency of the county attorney with regard to dismissing the charges, was he treated differently, that is
Smollett from, other types of celebrities, did they handle it, the local authorities, county attorney properly. Did they do their job. Everyone
has an opinion on that. Because the President doesn't like what they did and because the country doesn't like what they did doesn't mean the federal
government gets to swoop down and do anything about it. That's a local charge. We in this country what we call sovereignties. We have a federal
government and state governments who have governors, local elected officials and they do what they think is most appropriate. I don't see any
room for the federal government to now say you guys were bad slapping on the wrist. This should not have happened. We need to stop this. Where I
do see a part and a role for the federal government is in the event that Smollett sent may to himself, then using the U.S. mails makes it federal.
GORANI: This is an.
JACKSON: That's a different issue.
GORANI: This is an empty threat by the President?
JACKSON: Here's what I'll say to you. I don't know whether it's an empty threat or the President not having an understanding of how things work in
terms of local prosecutors or whether it's just politics or anything else. But the federal government cannot tell a local prosecutor how to handle a
case, whether you can dismiss charges. That's at their discretion. I'm just suggesting to you that was their decision to make.
[13:25:00] This smacks of politics and the only role that I see a federal government playing relates to Smollett allegations he sent thing through
the mail. In terms of what the prosecutor did, that was their decision, like it or hate it, they have vast discretion. The President doesn't have
a role nor does the President or the federal government control what people do.
GORANI: All right. So where does it go in from here? Once the case is dropped it's dropped. At least at a state level.
JACKSON: Remember now that police department was none too pleased. The mayor was not pleased because the mayor and police department were not even
told the case was being dropped. They're saying Smollett paid back everything he did in terms of man hours, the 12 detectives. I don't see
that going anywhere because as part of his employee deal, he forfeited $10,000. Prosecution could have required restitution, that he pay for all
of this. They didn't. There's that component where the locals are upset, too. The police department is upset, too. I think we'll see that play out
in terms of his prosecution locally that's over. The only thing I see is the federal government potentially charging him if this is true that he
sent himself the threat with federal charges related to that. Other than that, I do not see a federal role in this case.
GORANI: Right. Got it. Thanks very much. Clear explanation. Joey Jackson joining us live from New York. A lot more to come this evening.
Brexit backlash. The frustration of British businesses. What are they saying politicians should be doing? We'll be right back.
GORANI: Tomorrow members of Parliament will debate Brexit once again. It won't be for the last time. Last night, MPs in the building behind me
tried to find a way forward. Essentially, they voted on a series of motions to try to see where are they in this big Brexit debate. But here's
the problem. They asked eight questions and all eight questions were basically rejected. Not a single one got a majority. So, we're back where
we starred in a sense, right? Even the Prime Minister's offer to resign if her party backs her deal appears to have ended in deadlock. The head of
one of Britain's biggest business groups says they're going around in circles at this stage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[13:30:00] ADAM MARSHALL, DIRECTOR GENERAL, BRITISH CHAMBERS OF COMMERCE: Let's land on something and stick with it so businesses have the clarity
and precision they need to get on and trade. Brexit caused so much uncertainty in our business communities over the last three years. A lot
of companies feel like they're going round in circles. They need to be able to get back to investing to hiring and to growing the economy. And
lifting this sort of fog that's all around them is really, really important over the coming weeks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. And John Defterios who conducted that interview joins me now.
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: You welcome me by splashing me with water.
GORANI: I just opened a bottle of sparkling water. We survived it. Let's talk about businesses here. What you were telling me during the break was
it's not -- they just want some clarity. Even if the clarity is it's Theresa May's deal or no deal at all. Tell us what's going to happen.
DEFTERIOS: I had quite a day. I spent six hours with the business community, less than 200 meters from where we're sitting right now. A
completely different reality. Watching the flags and chants and everybody saying let's push this along and go for another vote. We ------
[13:30:00] JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN BUSINESS EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: It was less than 200 meters away from where we're sitting right now. And a
completely different reality. I mean, watching the flags, watching the chants, and everybody is saying, let's push this along, go for another vote
of Theresa May.
As you suggested last night, we had eight votes and none of them came through. The business community is saying, they're not completely unified,
by the way, but they are saying give us a decision. That's what the head of the British chambers of commerce --
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: But they don't want no-deal. They don't want no-deal.
DEFTERIOS: That's the caveat here. They said, we want a decision but we don't want a crashing out. In fact, I spoke to Sadiq Khan who is the mayor
of London who's now taking the nuclear option, Hala. He saying, look, let's revoke Article 50. Because we see right now that there's only
paralysis within parliament. Let's listen to him. We can go off of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SADIQ KHAN, MAYOR OF LONDON: What's clear to me is policy and gridlock. The best way to unlock the gridlock. And the best way to unlock the
gridlock is to get the British public a say. But also, we've got a situation where British businesses are worried about what Theresa May has
done. They're worried about a no-deal situation. Of course, they want certainty.
But all of that uncertainty is a no-deal situation or a bad Brexit deal. My worry is the impression we're giving to people outside of our country is
what I over mind you that I have knock in pluralistic pro-business. That's why it's really important parliament realizes that they themselves can
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So the very hardcore Brexiteers who say, you know what? We voted to leave. Let's leave without a deal. The reality is, let's reality check
this. Because they say, no, well, we can just revert back to WTO rules. We can then negotiate our own trade agreements. That's a bit of a fantasy,
DEFTERIOS: It is. And the business community, actually, is very divided, as I was suggesting. They don't actually want a crash out, but some want
to have a Brexit. Some want to remain. And they definitely don't want a customs union that some were considering. It is kind of handcuffs the
businesses who take the European rules right now? So they're trying to eliminate this shock.
GORANI: They don't want a customs union?
DEFTERIOS: No, they don't want a custom union because basically you're handing all the power to the European Union. You have to live by the rules
but it doesn't allow you to set up another free trade agreement.
So worst-case scenario, we need to get out. Let's, at least, have the flexibility to have our own free trade agreements. But I was surprised
today. I have spent so much time.
GORANI: But there's advantages to a customs union. I mean, you don't just enter a customs union for the sake of it to lose all control, it's also
because you get preferential access to the common market. That's a huge market for the U.K.
DEFTERIOS: It is 45 percent of their trade right now. And I would argue that the best deal they have, and this is what I presented to a number of
different business leaders is just keep it where you are. Maybe revoking Article 50 would be a good idea. They said, no. We have to follow the
democratic principles. Everybody decided on the vote that we had for the referendum to get out. We have to live by the principles of getting out.
But we can't have a case where there's -- where we're sitting right now tonight is paralysis. We still don't know by Monday what's going to
happen. They said from a business standpoint, it's absolutely the worst- case scenario.
And I was doing the math. You had a case where Theresa May put in 50 billion dollars to pay out to the European Union to break out, eventually,
right? It's costing 50 billion in the first year because of the uncertainty and the combination of cost and loss investment.
Growth investment is one we're suggesting today. The CEO of Legal & General saying to me, we're losing a half a percent to one percent growth
every year because of the uncertainty. Just don't let us crash out but make a decision we can live with.
GORANI: OK. John Defterios, thanks very much.
So this is inside the Westminster London -- Central London bubble. But how is all this parliamentary turmoil playing out across the country? We like
to take the pulse here and there on this network.
Nina dos Santos is near Bath which voted to remain in the European Union. Anna Stewart is in Hull which voted to leave. So let's start with Bath
now. And Nina dos Santos is there. Talk to me about how what's going on in Westminster is being perceived where you are.
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN EUROPE EDITOR: Yes, people here are sort of scratching their heads and wondering where this process is going to go
next. Many of them here in the West Country would advocate a second referendum.
And, in fact, I'm actually in a village called Combe Hay in the garden of a businessman, a local businessman I've been speaking to just moments ago
saying that he would also like to see the U.K. go for a second referendum as unlikely as that may well be, some people say. And if for instance we
can't get past that, well, many people also saying they're just so exhausted with the whole concept of Brexit that even a no-deal at this
point could get Westminster onto other more pressing matters that the country has to deal with.
Hala, this interestingly enough village is part of North East Somerset which is the constituency of probably the biggest leave voice out there.
Jacob Rees-Mogg. Many of the people inside his constituency don't share his views. This is a remain constituency as is Bath.
And this is what some of the people in the streets of Bath have had to say about where Brexit goes from here throughout the course of the day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[13:35:04] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm quite sad about it all. And I think at the moment, it's a bit of a mess.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It just kind of comes across as a bit pointless that I voted, to be honest, because it doesn't seem like the vote was taken
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just think the status quo was OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A little bit disappointing to say that people want to separate from the E.U. when back in the day, they helped us out so much.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think a lot of people (INAUDIBLE) work very differently. I really do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOS SANTOS: Well, Bath has had a real legacy with Europe ever since 60 A.D. when the ancient Romans came here to build the famous thermal spa bath
after which the city is named. The MP for the city of Bath, in fact, was born in Germany, and is fiercely pro-European. In fact, she voted for two
of those motions that went -- that were rejected by the House of Commons but debated or at least considered yesterday evening. And one of them, of
course, unsurprisingly was to put the vote back to the people. The second one was to revoke Article 50.
Obviously, where Anna you are, there's a very different story playing out on the streets of Hull, I'd imagine.
ANNA STEWART, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Exactly that. Particularly when it comes to this idea of a second referendum, even on a final deal.
That was actually the most popular option. It had the most support in parliament last night. It's certainly not popular here. Take a listen
when I asked people what they thought of having a second referendum on the final deal or on Brexit at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The people have voted. So I think we should stick by that. I think it undermines the whole process by having another vote
because then, you know, we could do that forever. If certain people are happy, we're just going to have to keep voting and voting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a difficult one though, isn't it? Because we got ourselves a very democratic country, is it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We should, you know, get what we asked for.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If it had been a year ago for a second referendum, then fair enough. But I think now it's too late. And I think people are
just sick and tired of listening and hearing and there's been no action from it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEWART: Now, Hull is a maritime city. It voted overwhelmingly to leave the E.U. in the referendum in 2016. That last lady you heard from though,
she voted to remain but she doesn't want a second referendum. She says that does not deliver on what people voted for. She accepts that while
leaving E.U. is not what she wants, that over half the country did vote to leave.
Now, every area we've been to that's voted to leave this week and we've been to four different places, now, has a different main issue at the heart
of why people voted to leave.
Yesterday at Boston, it was to do with immigration. Here, it's really to deal with a dying industry of fishing of being a real hub. And what we're
hearing here is they feel like the E.U. has actually taken away from their local economy.
An old fisherman I spoke said he thinks that the French, the Dutch, the Germans are all fishing in his waters and then selling back the fish. And
I think this is why, when I asked people whether they change their mind at all, they haven't in the slightest. This does make you wonder whether you
would get a different result if people were to vote again, Nina.
GORANI: OK. Well, thanks to both of you, Anna Stewart and Nina dos Santos.
Yes. Absolutely. Thanks to both of you. And we'll catch up with you a little bit later, as well for more reporting.
Go ahead, Nina.
DOS SANTOS: I was going to second what Anna was just saying before. Just anecdotally from the interview I've just conducted with a local proxy
developer who's got 30 staff across the U.K. and some of his staff, actually, he said, up and down the country voted to leave. Wherever you
are on the side of the spectrum of this debate, the real question comes down to economics and just trying to get certainty either way. Whether
it's a no deal at this point or whether it's another referendum or revoking the whole thing all together, Hala.
GORANI: All right. Thanks to both of you there on opposite sides of the debate. Nina and Anna.
Check out our Facebook page, as well, facebook.com/halagoranicnn and @HalaGorani on Twitter.
Toxic chemicals that could cause cancer and asthma have been found in the area surrounding Grenfell Tower. Researchers at the University of Central
Lancashire have tested the soil at the site of the apartment building fire here in London. They recommend health screening for local residents and
all emergency responders.
You'll remember 72 people were killed in that horrific blaze. And as that report shows, the community is still scarred in many ways. But hundreds of
people were saved that night.
As part of our life-changer series, I spoke to one of the fire fighters who risked his life in Grenfell. A warning that you may find some of the
images in this or disturbing.
GORANI (voice-over): The fire at Grenfell Tower was the biggest loss of life in London since World War II.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God.
GORANI: Nightmarish scenes of a high-rise building ablaze. Still haunting almost two years on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are babies in that block.
[13:40:06] GORANI: Yet among all the stories of tragedy, there are those of immense individual bravery.
ALDO DIANA, RETIRED FIREFIGHTER: And it wasn't until about three streets away that you actually saw the smoke and the glow of the tower.
GORANI: Firefighter Aldo Diana, no retired, says he helped nine people escape the tower that night. As they approach the burning block, his
colleagues are audibly stunned at the size of the blaze.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a towering inferno.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How is that possible?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's jumped up all the way along the flats, look.
GORANI (on-camera): So you were at the base of the tower, at that point with all the equipment you needed to go into this inferno of a fire.
DIANA: Yes, with what we needed.
GORANI: At that point, just as you're about to go in, what goes through your mind?
DIANA: What goes through my head was just, you know, let's just do this. Let's just get inside.
GORANI (voice-over): Eager to get inside, it wasn't long before Aldo and his partner came across their first casualty.
DIANA: Once you go further up, it was just thick black -- thick black smoke. The first guy we came to was on the sixth floor. Sixth, seventh
floor. He was just collapsed. And it was between me and Dame (ph). We just thought the best thing to do is to get this fellow out of the way. So
we lifted him up.
GORANI (on-camera): There's no visibility at this point, right?
DIANA: No. As I say, you just can't see your hand in front of your face. It's --
GORANI: So, how are you navigating in pitch darkness like that?
DIANA: We were shown plans of flats. Thus you knew -- you knew there were six flats on each floor.
GORANI (voice-over): For Aldo, one exchange from that night stands out in particular. A girl whose family who had been separated in the confusion.
DIANA: There was just a young girl saying that, you know, her -- my mom and my dad are still inside. And it was just at that time that you sort of
reassure them, grab them and make sure they are getting out.
GORANI: As the toxic smoke filled the inside of the tower, on the outside flames spread rapidly across the cladding. Since Grenfell, the London Fire
Service has faced criticism for telling people to stay in their apartments. But Aldo says that procedure is usually the safest.
DIANA: But that stay put for me in the 26 years I've served has always worked. Sadly, in a building that's covered in flammable material is not
going to work.
GORANI: By the time dawn broke, Aldo and his colleagues were still searching the tower.
GORANI (on-camera): And what was that like when you went into apartments then?
DIANA: Just complete devastation. It was quite eerie because when you looked onto the floor, you could see all the rubble and the smoldering
fires and the devastation inside. But the strange thing was is when you looked out through the burned out windows, you saw beautiful green trees,
the motorways, cars gone on motorway, just birds singing. So it was a quite surreal sort of experience.
GORANI (voice-over): Some of the most memorable images of Grenfell were of the firefighters sprawled out, exhausted from their rescue efforts.
DIANA: So here on this grass area was guys coming out taking off their tunics and some of their fire gear collecting new cylinders for their
breathing sets. Grabbing some water.
GORANI (voice-over): What were you saying to each other that morning, the firefighters?
DIANA: We were just -- we were just hoping that we get the chance to get back in again and make sure that we did our job as best as we can. We just
wanted to note that if we were called upon, to be ready to go back in again.
GORANI (voice-over): It's that instinct to run into rather than away from a burning building that makes all those stories so remarkable. While the
memories of those who couldn't be saved, all 72 of them will never fade.
[13:45:54] GORANI: Facebook is looking to mute white supremacist propaganda in the wake of the terrorist attacks on the New Zealand mosques.
The social media giant has announced plans to ban what it calls praise, support and representation of white nationalism and separatism on its
platform as well as on Instagram, which it aims.
The move comes almost two weeks after the attacks in Christchurch -- two weeks after those attacks were livestreamed on Facebook.
Let's bring in our tech correspondent Samuel Burke for more. So, does this mean that this was tolerated on the platform before if they're saying now
that it's explicitly banned?
SAMUEL BURKE, CNN BUSINESS AND TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: Hala, this is really puzzling for most. Originally, Facebook has long banned white
supremacy on its platform but explicitly allowed white nationalism and white separatism.
Let me just put on the screen what Facebook is saying about they differentiated between these before the New Zealand attack. Facebook
saying, quote, "We didn't originally apply the same rationale to expressions of white nationalism and white separatism because we were
thinking about broader concepts of nationalism and separatism. Things like American pride and Basque separatism which are an important part of
So now all of that has changed after New Zealand. But, Hala, importantly, Facebook is saying what, we know what they want to get off their platform
but they're not saying how. If they're casting the net so much wider now, will there be more human moderators? Different artificial intelligence?
They're not answering that one.
GORANI: And what about Twitter? Because it's also announcing that had some ideas on how to maybe not ban or mute but certainly make less
accessible certain types of political messaging.
BURKE: There have always been two sets of rules, the ones that the rest of us have to abide by on Twitter. But elected officials like President
Trump, they don't take down tweets that would normally be removed from the platform because they say there's a public good for that. That the public
needs to know what an elected official is saying.
Now, Twitter is saying that they're considering putting up a warning for a tweet that would violate the standards, if you and I put it out, but not if
somebody like Donald Trump did it. So they might blur it and have a warning on it first. So that way when you're scrolling through your feed,
you're not forced to see it if you follow the president, for instance.
But incredible to think that there are two different standards for different types of people. And you have to start wondering, so would that
apply for just nationally elected officials like President Trump or also senators, members of parliament, et cetera? Something that Twitter is
saying they're considering right now.
Interesting to think about when President Trump called former staffer Omarosa a dog or that WWE wrestler beating up the CNN logo, maybe that type
of content would have a warning on it first.
GORANI: All right. We live in interesting times. Samuel Burke, thanks very much. We'll see what gets blurred and what doesn't.
CNN has learned the suspect in the Christchurch massacres had donated money to Austria's far-right movement. Now, the Austrian chancellor is
considering dissolving that nationalist group.
Meantime, far-right groups are spreading anti-immigrant messages in mainstream politics. Nic Robertson has that story.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): They are the new face of Europe's far-right. Young, clean cut activists. Running
training camps, blocking a migrant route through Europe. Crowd funding a ship in the Mediterranean to turn migrants back to Africa.
They call themselves Generation Identity. And claim, European culture and identity is in danger from Islam and immigration.
ALEXANDER KLEINE, ACTIVIST, GENERATION IDENTITY: We are addressing young people that go to university or to school and say, OK, I want -- I don't
want terrorism and I don't want a mass migration in Europe.
ROBERTSON: German activist Alexander "Malenki" Kleine is one of their breakout social media stars.
KLEINE: That we need a protection of --
ROBERTSON: He is still angry that Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel allowed more than a million migrants into the country three years ago.
[13:50:03] KLEINE: Oh, there you can see these blockades.
ROBERTSON: He takes me to a barricade put up following a deadly radical Islamist terror attack in Berlin two years ago.
KLEINE: I don't want to live in a country that needs a road blockades. I don't want to live in a country where terrorist attacks are normal. I
don't want to live in a country where women has to cover their hair because, yes, Islamization. Yes, that's not racist.
ROBERTSON: But these extreme views have landed them on the watch list of Germany's domestic intelligence agency.
ROBERTSON (on-camera): How should I understand the Identitarian movement?
WERNER PATZELT, POLITICAL SCIENTIST, TECHNICAL UNIVERSITY DRESDEN: They are reinventing German racism, and this makes them dangerous. This basic
attitude, you can't be a German unless you're a German, so to speak, by nature.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): The dangers are real after a Syrian migrant allegedly killed a German this summer. Right-wing groups in the now-
infamous town called Chemnitz came out in force to protest against refugees and immigration.
Police, a left-wing protesters faced off with right-wing thugs. In the scuffle, at least, two migrants were attacked by an angry mob. The message
was clear, "You are not welcome."
Nowhere in Germany is the rise of the right bigger than in prosperous Saxony. Every Monday for four years, supporters of the right-wing PEGIDA
group have marched in Dresden, protesting against immigration.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It will change Germany totally. People from Africa and every available come to here and destroy our economy and our culture.
ROBERTSON: Among this crowd, Trump's America-first policies are popular.
I meet a politician whose right-wing party road this discontent from zero to 25 percent in the last local election.
FRANK NEUFERT, COUNCILOR, ALTERNATIVE FUR DEUTSCHLAND (through translator): The established parties have lost contact with the citizens. Tax policy,
family policy, everything went wrong. And then, the migration crisis. That's when many woke up and said, something is not quite right here. This
was too much.
ROBERTSON: Neufert's AFD went mainstream by promising to close the borders. The kind of rhetoric that propelled Donald Trump in the U.S. It
has become the first far-right party to enter Germany's Parliament in almost 60 years. And is now the official German opposition.
ROBERTSON (on-camera): There is no single reason for the rise of the right-wing here and root causes vary from region to region. But there are
common threads. And biggest among them is immigration. And that issue is causing a surge in the right-wing all across Europe.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): The old political order is crumbling where Germany, Europe, or the U.S. go from here is uncharted territory.
Nic Robertson, CNN, Saxony, Germany.
GORANI: Coming up, a potential new hurdle for Special Olympics events in the U.S. This one coming from the Trump administration and it is causing
dismay. We'll be right back.
[13:55:00] GORANI: The Trump administration is proposing some big funding cuts. That would affect the most vulnerable people in society. Students
with special needs in the United States. The education department wants to scrap all federal money for Special Olympic events in schools. Stephanie
Elam has reaction.
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Dustin Plunkett face some hard times as a child at home.
DUSTIN PLUNKETT, SPECIAL OLYMPICS ATHLETE & OUTREACH MANAGER: Nobody in my family really knew how to support me because of my cleft palate and my
ELAM: And at school, where he was bullied until he discovered Special Olympics. Some 20 years later, not only is he an athlete, he's also an
outreach manager and inspirational speaker for Special Olympics, Southern California.
PLUNKETT: Ninety-seven percent of seniors on high school campuses say that Special Olympics made an impact in their life, and that's why the funding
is so important to us.
ELAM: The funding that Plunkett is worried about is federal. The Department of Education's proposed budget for 2020 would eliminate all
grant money for the nonprofit, dropping it from more than $17.5 million to zero.
Education secretary, Betsy DeVos, took heat from Congress as she defended the cuts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know how many kids are going to be affected by that cut, madam secretary?
BETSY DEVOS, U.S. EDUCATION SECRETARY: Mr. Procan (ph), let me say again, we had make -- we had to make some difficult decisions with this budget.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again, this is a question of how many kids, not about the budget.
DEVOS: I don't know the number of kids.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. It's 272,000 kids. I'll answer it for you. That's OK. No problem. It's 272,000 kids that are affected --
DEVOS: Let me just say, I think Special Olympics is an --
ELAM: In response, DeVos released a statement saying, quote, "The Special Olympics is not a federal program. It's a private organization. I love
its work and I have personally supported its mission. Because of its important work, it is able to raise more than $100 million every year.
There are dozens of worthy non-profits that support students and adults with disabilities that don't get a dime of federal grant money. But given
our current budget realities, the federal government cannot fund every worthy program particularly ones that enjoy robust support from private
A spokeswoman confirmed to CNN that DeVos does support the non-profit privately and did donate part of her salary to the Special Olympics after
proposing a cut in funding to the organization in her first budget.
TIMOTHY SHRIVER, CHAIRMAN, SPECIAL OLYMPICS: This is the third year in which the administration has proposed eliminating the funding for our
movement, our education work. So it's not a complete surprise.
ELAM: And the organization's bipartisan support has helped protect its funding.
SHRIVER: If this funding were removed, our programs in over 6,000 schools would be sadly devastated, but we have no expectation that that will
happen. And we are firmly committed to insuring that it will not.
GORANI: Well, there you have it. Thanks for watching. I'm Hala Gorani. "AMANPOUR" is next.