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Whistleblower Says White House Approved Clearances For 25 Despite Denials; Pentagon Says It Has Not Been Asked Yet to Support Border Closure; Interview with Rep. Ro Khanna (D), California; Buttigieg Campaign Raises $7million Plus in First Quarter. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired April 01, 2019 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: And here we go. You're watching CNN on a Monday afternoon. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being here. We begin with what Democrats are calling a whistle blower in the White House raising a national security alarm about who was walking its halls. According to her 25 officials had their clearance denied only then to get the green light from senior officials at the White House. These details are coming in from the White House oversight committee which just revealed her details in the memo.

This whistle blower is Tricia Newbold, the current adjudications manager in the personnel security office and take a look at some of the issues that she says the White House apparently disregarded. Staffers who had foreign influence, conflicts of interest, financial problems even drug use and criminal conduct were some of the issues. Newbold told the committee she was talking as a final resort. Quote, she says "I would not be doing a service to myself or my country if I sat back knowing the issues, we have could impact national security, and I feel that right now this is my last hope to really bring the integrity back into our office." A source says Ivanka and Jared Kushner were among the 25 officials whose clearance denials were overruled by the White House. Let's go straight to our correspondent there, Kaitlin Collins. Has the White House responded to this woman's claims at all?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Nothing so far. Brooke, this letter was sent Pat Cipollone, he is the White House counsel and we have heard from him before on this. He's argued he believes the power to grant and deny these security clearances rests exclusively with the executive branch. He doesn't think that Congress or the Democrats here have the authority to get this information. Now, this fight is not going anywhere. It could end up in a court battle. We know that couplings said today he's prepared to issue subpoenas including one potentially to Karl Kline. That's someone who was the head to the personnel security division which handles the clearances. He was Newbold's boss. It could be they want to see what people have to say about how the process was handled. People are responding by saying the Democrats here are cherry picking the facts including Jim Jordan, a close ally of the President's who said it's disappointing the chairman is using the sensitive topic as a pretense for a partisan attack on the White House.

Then he goes onto say he believes they are mischaracterizing the information she shared saying on the part of the people those regulations were overruled about getting them security clearances, one of those was a nonpolitical official including a custodian. He's saying it's not as big of a problem as they're making it out to be. Included in the list and according to this woman that couplings says is a whistle blower are other officials. But Brooke, we've seen this fight play out at the White House having this scrutiny on security clearances is nothing new ever since the rob porter scandal. It has affects around the west wing. It's something they've been concerned about. So much scrutiny being on this process and what information could come out, especially with the report recently about how the President was involved in Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner getting their clearances.

BALDWIN: Welcome to more scrutiny with within news from the house with this memo. Thank you very much. One more note on this. According to Miss Newbold the retaliation against her for raising her security concerns began in 2018 when Mr. Kline began taking actions that were designed to humiliate her as a result of her rare form of dwarfism. According to Newbold, Mr. Kline repeatedly altered her office environment to cause impediments to her work including elevating files out of her reach. She said these are files we work with every day. That's an essential part of our job. She explained when she let Mr. Kline know there was a problem, they tended to it.

To the other major subpoena from Democrats set for this week, to get the full unredacted 400-some page report from Robert Mueller. Let's go to Manu Raju. What's happening there?

[14:05:05] MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The House judiciary committee plans to move to authorize a subpoena later this week for the full Mueller report as well as the underlying evidence in addition to five White House officials to provide documents that related to their cooperation with the Mueller investigation. This is all part of the Democratic effort to try to get everything that Bob Mueller tries to uncover as part of his information. What Democrats are concerned about is the letter from Bill Barr on Friday. The Attorney General telling Congress that he would redact portions of the Mueller report for categories he cited with two particulars that caught Democrats by surprise. One saying he would redact grand juror information. Two regarding third parties Barr considers that their character should not be impugned by their name being in the Mueller report. Democrats want to know that information. They say -- the House judiciary committee, in particular, is entitled to that information. They point to the ken star investigation, the water gate investigation where they say it's perfectly within the realm of the committee to get the information. Later this week Jerry Nadler to going to move to authorize a subpoena after the Justice Department officially misses this Tuesday deadline. Barr did say he planned to provide the redacted version. They say they'll give the Attorney General time to respond and not essentially undermine the Justice Department laws and guidelines. He said he's going to be transparent, give him time. Nevertheless, Democrats are trying to make sure what redacted report is not sufficient. They are escalating this fight, and it could end up in the courts. Really escalating of the fight on Capitol Hill, and the move that will happen on Wednesday to authorize these subpoenas. BALDWIN: I want to come back to this in a moment. Manu. As the

White House doubled down to close the U.S./Mexico border, Patrick Shanahan says as of now the Pentagon hasn't been asked about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has the Pentagon been asked about the closure of the southern boarder?

PATRICK SHANAHAN, ACTING DEFENSE SECRETARY: Not as of this morning, but it's a dynamic situation. I'll be having conversations with Secretary of State today, and most likely Secretary NielSEN.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: He mentioned Secretary Nielsen, Homeland Secretary. She is ordering an earlier than expected surge of patrol agents to the border and holding facilities are overflowing beyond capacity.

President Trump says countries in Central America aren't doing enough to keep their citizens from fleeing to the U.S. as a result he wants to cut U.S. foreign aid to three of the countries, Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador. They want fewer migrants to feel the need to flee. Allen Gomez is an immigration reporter. Alan, welcome back. We'll get to the aid comes from a moment. Fist you tell me what would be the immediate impact of closing that U.S./Mexico border or portions of it?

ALAN GOMEZ, IMMIGRATION REPORTER, "USA TODAY": I mean, it's really hard to estimate, because something like that really hasn't been done. Previous Presidents have done partial shutdowns requiring more screenings of cars and passengers coming into the country, but by the best estimate, there's about $1.7 billion in goods and services that crosses that southern border every single day. That's from the state department. Hundreds of thousands of people that go back and forth. When you think about the stuff that's in your grocery store, parts that go to cars that are being manufactured and just a countless number of contracts between Mexico and the U.S. that need that flow of people, of trucks, of trains delivering everything back and forth. The impact would be really difficult to imagine, but it would be an economic catastrophe for companies throughout both countries.

BALDWIN: And then what about the aid? A lot of aid is funneled into nonprofit groups, providing job placement, education, food. Explain what happens to the people in that countries if the aid was eliminated.

GOMEZ: Yes. We're talking about over $500 million in aid that is split up between those three countries. I've been able to go down there and see what these programs do. We're talking about computers for kids in school. Local community policing programs to help locals get a better handle on security situations in their communities. It goes to judicial programs to try to improve anti-corruption measures. It goes to law enforcement to try to traffic -- to try to target and fight against drug cartels. It has a lot of economic incentives to allow to help small business owners develop on their own and to improve their situation. Try to improve anti-corruption measures. It goes to law enforcement to try to traffic -- to try to target and fight against drug cartels. It has a lot of economic incentives to allow to help small business owners develop on their own and to improve their situation. Collectively, we're talking about -- go ahead.

BALDWIN: On the incentives, since we know all the aid has been provided for years to those countries and that that's been done in previous administration after previous administration, then my question would be why haven't the aid packages really helped combat the gang violence and the poverty that all the migrants are fleeing? Why hasn't all that aid been working?

GOMEZ: Yes. I mean, the short answer is it takes a long time to do this. We have seen murder rates in these three countries go down in recent years. It's not a direct cause between our aid and suddenly the homicide rates going down, but they've contributed. And so, the argument would be that these are long-term problems that you need long-term investments in to ensure their success over time. It was really under the Obama administration when he doubled aid to that region to about $750 million. But that was only about four years ago. So, it's -- they've been working little by little. It's going to take a lot more time. The argument from critics of the administration right now is reducing that to zero will not improve anything. And it's still very unclear how the President can force the leaders of these countries to stop people from leaving their countries. You can't stop somebody from leaving the United States just like you can't tell somebody you can't leave Honduras. We're wondering the end goal, and we'll see if he follows through on the different threats.

BALDWIN: We'll see. You just saw the bit from Secretary Shanahan who says the Pentagon has yet to be asked about closing the border. We'll see. Allen, you're excellent at uncovering immigration. Thank you for your voice in all this.

Disturbing new questions about security clearances inside the White House. We'll speak with a member of the House Oversight Committee who is demanding answers. Plus, the first candidate to release fund raising numbers for the first quarter Mayor Pete Buttigieg. Why it's another sign for his campaign.

And her mother says there's a hole in the universe. A student killed after getting into a car she thought was her Uber. The new surveillance video and what we know about the suspect. You're watching CNN.

[14:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Back to the big story. A White House staffer saying senior officials overturned denials for security clearance of 25 officials at the White House. House oversight Democrats detailed three cases at the staffer adjudications manager described for one official the denial was overruled. In the second case the clearance application was removed. In a third situation there was an attempt to change her report, that's called an adjudication summary. She says in that instance the it was sustained and the individual is no longer at the White House. She said when she filed her concerns, she faced retaliation. We have a member of the House oversight and reform committee. Congressman, thank you for being on with me.

REP. RO KHANNA (D), CALIFORNIA: Thank you for having me on.

BALDWIN: This isn't just one or two people. According to this memo, 25 individuals who were denied the security clearances and the White House overturned this. Can you tell me what did the whistle blower share with you?

KHANNA: Well, here's why it's so concerning. This President has had an unprecedented attack on civil servants and expertise in our democracy. The whistle blower said that there were almost 25 cases where the career officials felt that an individual would compromise our national security, they had a financial conflict of interest or something on their background that was of concern. This administration overlooked the career advice, the expertise and gave people security clearances even though they may be risking our only national security.

BALDWIN: Congressman, can we be more specific? We too have the same reporting. It was initially denied because of financial problems, conflicts of interest, drug use. Like, what about drug use by someone then would mean -- I mean, how egregious must that have been for the person to have been initially denied?

KHANNA: This is why we need the director of security to come before our committee. We're going to have the whistle blower come before the committee. We need to have John Kelly and others who made the decisions come before our committee and explain that whether in private or in public. But it's very standard procedure. I mean, this has happened in numerous administrations. If there are reasons that people feel that someone may be a risk, whether it's extensive drug use or something they could be blackmailed for or anything that puts them at risk, they're denied security clearances. In the past the President has deferred to the judgment of the career experts.

[14:20:02] BALDWIN: Do you know, Congressman, according to our reporting, Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump are included. Do you know?

KHANNA: I don't want to disclose anything confidential. I can say there are serious concerns about these ranking officials at the White House, and we need to have a full investigation, and understand why the career officials were overturned, and where our security may be compromised.

BALDWIN: But despite these concerns, under the law, the President of the United States does have the final say when it comes to allowing employees access to classified materials.

KHANNA: That is true unless there's misconduct. Let's take a hypothetical. I'm not saying this President did it, but let's say a hypothetical President sold access to security clearances. Clearly that would be against the law. There's some line. The President can't abuse his discretion. What we have to know here is was this a close judgment call or was this an egregious case of nepotism or rewarding people who worked on his campaign that were clearly unqualified and security risks and did he give them security information? That's really the question before us. I'm not prejudging it. But what we are saying is the White House needs to provide us with the documents, provide us with the answer.

BALDWIN: What if they don't? We have been reporting for weeks that they have been denying committees the documents requested. What if the White House doesn't give you what you want?

KHANNA: Well, Brooke, you're right. We have a chairman coming who bends over backwards to not take this to court because he's fair. He's been on the committee for years. He doesn't understand why a White House wouldn't cooperate just like every previous President has, but at some point, it will go to court. Chairman the chairman doesn't want to take it to court. If this White House does what no other White House has done and defies Congress, we'll have to go to court to get the documents.

BALDWIN: Let me turn your attention to the Mueller report. Chairman Nadler is trying to obtain the full unredacted Mueller report, and the Attorney General came out on Friday with that letter saying he will get the redacted report out to Congress and to the public by mid April. So why can't your party just wait for that?

KHANNA: Well, because every day that we're waiting they're out there making characterizations of the report to try to sway unfairly the American public. I mean --

BALDWIN: But don't you risk more redactions if the Democrats keep putting the pressure on Bill Barr and he has to rush this report out with even more redactions? You see less. It's less transparency.

KHANNA: Well, but there's no excuse for Bill Barr to be having redactions to shield the President from information that may be embarrassing. Look, if they want to put to rest this issue, they should get the report out there. That would be transparent, and then let people make a decision. But it's their decision to hold information, to slowly give information that's causing all of this turmoil. What they should do is just release the report and release it fully like Ken Starr report was released. No one held that report.

BALDWIN: Different statute now with regard to the report, but I hear you. We'll wait and see what happens within the White House and with Mr. Barr. Congressman, thank you very much for your time.

KHANNA: Thank you for having me on.

BALDWIN: A big announcement coming today from Mayor Pete Buttigieg. His team has brought in more than $7 million in the first quarter. We are joined with a look at why that number is so important for the mayor when it comes to momentum.

[14:25:08] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Very soon we will see the first fundraising numbers for Democratic Presidential hopefuls. So far, we've only heard from Pete Buttigieg who says a hall of more than $7 million. Pretty impressive. Adding to the fundraising pressure facing them is the pre mare debate -- primary debates. We will walk through the money. Obviously, it's not a determining factor for the first two debates but it has a massive impact.

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER AND EDITOR AT LARGE: No. Look. People are often critical of money, especially the media's focus on money and fundraising, but money equals support. If someone is willing to dip into their checkbook or online and press a button and donate money, that signals real support and investment. OK. Let's compare Mayor Pete to where some of the other folks are. He raised a little over $7 million. We don't have the details of numbers of cash on hand. Expectations matter. If I told Pete Buttigieg January 1st, he'd end march with $7 million raised, he would have laughed at me and been justified. No one knew who he was. He started with a 20,000- person list. That's it. That's not big. OK. But comparatively, these are going to be your two heavy weights in the fund-raising race with maybe Joe Biden. Beto O'Rourke 6.1 million in 24 hours. Bernie 5.9 million in 24 hours. They're both going to raise maybe double or triple the 7 million, but it's expectations. There were zero expectations he would raise more than a million dollars. 7 million will keep his momentum up. These two, we expect them to be the leaders both in the first quarter and more generally.

BALDWIN: Then what happened over the weekend with Senator Warren's finance director?

CILLIZZA: This is a bad sign. When your finance director, the person who is running your money operation resigns or leaves on the last day of the first fundraising quarter of your Presidential race, it's not good. Here's why her number needs to be examined closely when we get her number. She had $11 million leftover in her Senate account. He raised money for her Senate race.

[14:30:00]