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Everybody Wants to Have a Say on Brexit But No Full Cooperation to Resolve it; Boeing Admits System Failure; Mueller Report Creates More Confusion; Boeing Admits Equipment Played Role In Two Crashes; Merkel, We'll Do Everything To Prevent No-Deal Brexit; Ecuador To Expel Assange From Embassy; New Zealand Shooting; New Polls Ahead Of Israel Election; Trump And The Truth. Aired 3-4a ET
Aired April 05, 2019 - 03:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[03:00:00] NATALIE ALLEN, CNN ANCHOR: Boeing says it is committed to fixing the problems with the 737 MAX as a new report from the Ethiopian Airlines crash clear parallels to the one in Indonesia.
GEORGE HOWELL, CNN ANCHOR: In the United Kingdom, more Brexit chaos, hard liners in the House of Lords trying to block a move that would give that nation an extension.
ALLEN: Also, this hour, pressure builds on the Trump administration to release the Mueller report, and not just from Democrats even the special counsel's own investigators are frustrated with what the public has seen so far.
HOWELL: Live from CNN world headquarters in Atlanta, welcome to our viewers all over the world. I'm George Howell.
ALLEN: I'm Natalie Allen. CNN Newsroom starts right now.
HOWELL: A major admission from Boeing. For the first time the plane maker says equipment played a role in two plane crashes in the last six months, those crashes that killed 346 people.
The planes owned by Ethiopian Airlines and Lion Air. The pilots were flying the 737 MAX 8 passenger jets and the Boeing CEO says that a malfunction in its anti-stall system was the link in a chain of events that cause the crashes. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DENNIS MUILENBURG, CEO, BOEING: It's apparent that in both flights the Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System, known as MCAS, activated in response to erroneous angle of attack information, it's our responsibility to eliminate this risk. We own it and we know how to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ALLEN: The admission comes after investigators release an initial report on the doomed Ethiopian Airlines flight. It concluded that the plane had a valid certificate of airworthiness, crews had correct qualifications, takeoff was normal, and the crew repeatedly performed the emergency procedures outlined by Boeing, but they still were not able to control the aircraft.
HOWELL: And the CEO of Ethiopian Airlines says the report proves that his pilots were well-trained. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEWOLDE GEBREMARIAM, CEO, ETHIOPIAN AIRLINES: We have always been confident on our pilots, we have always been confident on our training standards, global standard. As you know, we have one of the best aviation academies with the state of the art training technologies.
Today, we are very proud of our pilots, because it is proved in the preliminary report that they have done beyond what they are expected to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ALLEN: CNN correspondent Oren Liebermann is a pilot and advanced ground instructor, he covered the arrival of the plane's black boxes to France. He joins us now live. Oren, these boxes are revealing a lot about that short and tragic flight in Ethiopia, the pilots desperately trying to control the plane. What are were learning about the new system that's in the Boeing 737 MAX and what didn't work?
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Interestingly, it is that new system known as MCAS system which we heard from Boeing CEO, which was not specifically mentioned in the Ethiopian Airlines 302 preliminary report that we obtained.
But based on what happened on board that plane, and we know that from the flight data recorder, it was apparent that it was in fact that MCAS system responsible for continuously and repeatedly trying to force the nose of the plane down. And that mirrors what we saw in the Lion Air crash, where we did know it was the MCAS system that was activated.
Boeing CEO essentially removed any doubt, they're saying yes, it was this system to blame. Even without the final report, it seems that Boeing CEO is saying yes, the MCAS system here was problematic. It is a system that's new to the 737 MAX aircraft, it was designed as an anti-stall system. It was supposed to introduce and added layer of safety, but as we've just learned twice in two horrible crashes that's exactly the opposite of what it had done.
ALLEN: Right. And Oren, we know that the pilots on that Ethiopian plane tried to pull up three times when the plane would continuously go nose down. What signal, or faulty signal would do that, and why?
LIEBERMANN: So, the MCAS system relies on what's called an angle of attack sensor, which tells an aircraft system if a plane is near stalling. The problem is the MCAS only relies on one angled of attack sensor, there is no backup, there is no redundancy built into that system to make sure that if one sensor fails, the MCAS has a backup to rely on.
And that's exactly what happened both on Ethiopian Airlines and on Lion Air, that angle of attack censor failed, it fed back faulty incorrect information to the MACAS system and that's why it kept reactivating and kept forcing the nose of the plane down.
[03:04:56] ALLEN: Yes. And Boeing of course has apologized, we saw that, and they're saying they're working on fixing their problem, and it's hard to believe that a kind of comes down to a software issue. That's what we know so far?
LIEBERMANN: Exactly, that's what we know so far based on Boeing's statements, based to some extent on the FAA's statements as well. Boeing is saying they have identified the problems. They are going to fix the software issue.
They did say about a week ago that there is an additional issue they're working on that it will take a few more weeks. But at this point, it's not just a question of fixing the software that runs the MCAS system. It's not just about this subsystem or system. It's also about Boeing's reputation here, because the questions will only be amplified.
And they were asked already after the Lion Air crash back in November, why didn't you ground this plane then? I suspect that's why Boeing put out a statement instead of a press conference, because that would have echoed very loudly again and again, why didn't you ground this plane when you knew there was a problem with the MCAS system.
We get the statement Boeing acknowledges it's the MCAS system. Now the question was there any other issue as Boeing tries to get these planes services quickly as possible which wills still take quite a bit of time it seems.
ALLEN: Right, and quite a long time to gain trust for many airlines. Thank you, Oren Liebermann for us. We appreciate it.
Well, the biggest Brexit headline of the day comes from Dublin, Ireland where German Chancellor Angela Merkel says that the E.U. will do everything it can until the very last hour to prevent a no deal Brexit. She met with the Irish prime minister who praised Theresa May's cross-party talks aimed at breaking the Brexit impasse.
HOWELL: Back in London, har liners in the House of Lords are working to defeat a measure that would force Ms. may to request another Brexit extension.
Let's bring in CNN's Nina dos Santos following the story this hour, live outside in London. I want to get a sense here. So, Brexit hard- liners they are fighting against the possibility of any delay?
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN CORRESPPONDENT: Well, this is not new here inside Theresa may's own conservative party. Over the last week, we've had at least two ministerial resignations from her cabinet. So, in sense they are that she's manage to reached across the aisle to try and finally at this late hour, try to bring Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the Labour opposition party on board to try and shape Brexit with her.
Since of course there's no way she's able at the moment to get her deal through parliament. And there are hard-liners, as you said, in the conservative party who are more eager to see a no deal Brexit than in a very long delayed and protracted Brexit, or worst of all, the risk of no Brexit at all being delivered by the conservative party.
Both in the upper house and also in the lower house of parliament, and both of those two sides have been voicing their opinions. There's also been some moderates who have been breaking ranks as well on the really senior parts of her cabinet, in particular Matt Hancock, the health secretary who's been quite quiet throughout the course of this tortuous negotiation.
Somebody you've seen as a useful moderate, perhaps even somebody who could lead the conservative party in the future, he has now spoken out and criticize Jeremy Corbyn, calling him quote, unquote, according to one news company, a Marxist.
Having said that, though, he said that both Labour wants to deliver Brexit, at least according to their manifesto, the conservative party's manifesto as well has that.
So, the two main parties they're locked in a race to try to make sure that Brexit is serious delivered, but their cabinets and their backbenchers completely split on how to do that. And split as you said inside the upper house, the House of Lords, with lot to ratify anything that the House of Commons finally has decided from, George.
HOWELL: And also, as for the E.U., the German Chancellor Angela Merkel signaling that she is willing to do whatever possible to help the U.K. avoid a no deal Brexit.
DOS SANTOS: Yes. And this is something that hardline Brexiteers have been mentioning for quite some time. They have long said, George, and you'll hear it time and time if you speak to hardline Brexiteer economist is that well, Germany sends hundreds of thousands of cars to the U.K. BMW builds the famous many over here in Oxford that this concerns over the future of that plants as well after Brexit.
Hard-line Brexiters have said in particular if Theresa May can manage to convince to get the biggest economy, the biggest voice around the E.U.'s negotiating table Germany on board, because economically they may have too much to lose, well then, then that's when the balance will start to turn.
Now Angela Merkel has said as you said in this meeting with the Taoiseach where she went to Ireland to show solidarity, not just with Ireland, but she also met with some groups of Northern Irish people as well, who increasingly are worried about the effects of a potential return of the hard border.
She said she would do everything in her power, and as you said, to try and help the U.K. avoid a no deal Brexit, that is interesting because it removes some of the pressure valve that France's Emmanuel Macron had been applying in these negotiations for quite some time.
[03:09:58] And she also said, she would try everything she could to try and prevent there being a hard border. Now that's really interesting because that signals that potentially this could come at the cause of the integrity of the single market.
So, she may be softening her stance on an all costs preventing E.U. members from breaking ranks from undermining the single market to try and make sure that there is no -- there is the avoidance of a no deal Brexit and take the wind out to the sails of those really difficult members of the conservative party who are agitating for that.
And that's important because there's another E.U. summit taking place mid next week, and before going there, Theresa May needs to figure out two things. Whether how long this extension she's going to ask for is going to be, and also, whether or not she can try and get some kind of withdrawal deal again with Labour's consent now after these talks through the House of Commons.
Not looking likely, but we're now heading into a third day of those cross-party talks, with the big piece to those two big parties. George?
HOWELL: All right. And the deadline of course getting closer. Nina dos Santos, live for us outside parliament. Thank you.
ALLEN: Well, of course, the European Union will have a say on any further Brexit delay, and French President Emmanuel Macron as looking to lead the bloc into the future.
CNN's Melissa Bell joins us live this hour from Paris to talk about what Macron thinks about the no deal Brexit and how that would affect France. Hello to you, Melissa.
MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, clearly, and we were reminded this week when the Irish prime minister visited Paris, Natalie, the two countries most affected by Brexit directly in terms of borders are Ireland and France.
And of course, Angela Merkel and Emmanuel Macron were always going to stand on the side of the member state that we're staying, that is the Irish Republic against, in a sense, the interests of the one who is leaving.
And yet, everyone wants to avoid a no deal Brexit, that's clear. France's from 50 million euros into preparing for that worst-case scenario for preparations to be made at its ports and at its airports. Clearly, though, they want to avoid that and they've been doing everything that they can in order for that to be avoided.
But really it's very difficult to see how they could possibly go beyond a very small extension until May 22nd. That is something that the French president in particular has made quite clear.
The last time they all met in Brussels in March to hear Theresa May, the sense of European gallantry seemed intact, even as the unions patience appeared to grow thin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE (through translator): The British politicians appear incapable of delivering what the people voted for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BELL: So, what will Emmanuel Macron's strategy be when Theresa May comes back to Brussels next week to ask for yet another extension?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEXIS POULIN, POLITICAL ANALYST: This is a British crisis, not a European crisis, and I think Emmanuel Macron has been positioning himself from the start at the next strongman of Europe, the next leader of Europe.
Macron is not there, Jen-Claude Juncker is leaving after the elections, so he will be the one discussing the aftermath of Brexit. So, he wanted to be clear, he wanted to be on the table, he wants to show a strong united front from the continent towards Britain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BELL: Ahead of next week summit, Macron invited the Irish prime minister to Paris on Tuesday. They agreed that an extension to article 50 might be necessary, but that it needed to be short. And on that, Emmanuel Macron has been tough but consistent, and even a little repetitive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MACRON (through translator): If the British need more time, we will examine a request for an extension. We can discuss and agree an extension if it is a technical extension, the European Union cannot forever be hostage to the resolution or political crisis in the United Kingdom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BELL: The fear of contagion elsewhere in Europe has been there ever since Britain voted to leave. Marine Le Pen who launched her campaign for the European elections in January, currently leads the French polls going into a decisive vote that will pit populist euro skeptics against pro-European liberals.
Macron's former Europe Minister, Nathalie Loiseau once joked that her cat was named Brexit because he could never decide whether he wanted to be in or out, is now leading the LREM campaign for the European parliament. It got off to a shaky start on Saturday. The following day, she repeated the French government's line that it is now time for Britain to get out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) NATHALIE LOISEAU, FORMER EUROPEAN AFFAIRS MINISTER (through translator): I will tell you one thing, I'm personally hostile to a new referendum now, because I think this will be a denial of democracy. I think Britain must leave, but it's for them to decide how to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BELL: At first, Macron had lamented what he described the lies told to the people by Brexiteers, but more recently his message has been more blunt. The divorce needs to be fat finalized and fast in order that Europe can once again look ahead ambitiously.
[03:14:55] And it's important to remember, Natalie, that beyond the problem that would represent a no deal Brexit for everyone, there is the broader, longer term objective of so many people here on the European continent.
The federalists, who long felt that Britain was a sort of thorn in the side of the European Union as it sort -- sought to get closer to further integration. Each time there's been a crisis these last decades, Britain has been the one holding back from further federalism, as a solution, or even an option.
And there are those on the continent and many of them who feel that is the right way forward for Europe, and who are in a sense, perhaps not relieved to see Britain go, but are certainly looking ahead to what Europe might do without Britain.
ALLEN: Yes, and it is the thorniest issue, isn't it? Speaking of thorns in the European Union right now. Melissa, we thank you. Thanks for that report.
HOWELL: Next here on Newsroom the White House changes its tune on the Mueller report. We'll explain why.
ALLEN: Also, Boeing makes a rare admission of fault after two plane crashes, 346 people killed, and the fleet of planes grounded. We'll discuss more what's next for Boeing!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ALLEN: Here in the U.S. after days of celebrating the attorney general's memo on the Mueller report, the White House is back in attack mode. Again, using terms like witch hunt and hoax and calling Mueller's team rabid Democrats and sneaky unethical leakers.
HOWELL: And that is after some of Mueller's investigators said that a four-page memo from the attorney general that sugarcoats evidence against the president.
Our Sara Murray has this.
SARA MURRAY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Few have seen he Mueller report, but some on the special counsel team are frustrated with how the attorney general summarized the findings in this four-page letter to Congress.
Sources tell CNN that several investigators on Robert Mueller's team are telling people outside the special counsel's office that William Barr failed to adequately describe the investigation of potential obstruction of justice including derogatory information about President Trump's actions.
One source said Mueller's team wrote summaries of their findings and expected more that to be used. Public perception so far has largely been shaped by Barr's letter summing up the main conclusions of the investigation. It referred only to evidence on both sides of the obstruction issue. And ultimately, Barr, not Mueller, decided that evidence did not amount to an obstruction of justice offense.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[03:19:58] NANCY PELOSI, UNITED STATES SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: In the public domain there are comments of the people on the Mueller team think that there is a mischaracterization by the attorney general, I don't know. There's an easy answer to this. Release the Mueller report as soon as possible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MURRAY: The fight to frame the report carrying on even though almost no one knows what's in it, including the FBI director.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you had an occasion to read the Mueller report?
CHRISTOPHER WRAY, DIRECTOR, FBI: I have not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MURRAY: The Justice Department today defended how the attorney general has been releasing information. Saying in a statement, "The attorney general decided to release a report, bottom-line findings and his conclusions immediately without attempting to summarize the report." Adding, that Barr does not want to release the report in serial or piecemeal fashion and still working in redactions, as the White House prepares for battle over the report's findings.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH HUCKABEE-SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The people that have been involved in this process they've wasted two years of their life and need to find a way to validate it. They've lost in 2016, they lost on the conclusion battle and now they're looking for any and everything they can to continue to attack this president because they have no message.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MURRAY: The Democrats are making it increasingly clear. That whatever Barr is preparing won't be enough. They want to hear directly from the special counsel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JERROLD NADLER, (D) NEW YORK: I think it's inevitable that Mr. Mueller is going to testify at some point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MURRAY: Now Barr has been aiming to make some version of this report public by mid-April. But the attorney general is already facing additional pressure from Democrats. House judiciary chairman Jerry Nadler just sent him a letter insisting that he explain any potential discrepancies between the letter he released to congress and the summaries that Mueller's team pulled together.
Sara Murray, CNN, Washington.
HOWELL: And there is more, White House whiplash to tell you about on the president's threat to shut down the border with Mexico. As a reminder, here's what he said about that in the past few days.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's a very good likelihood that I'll be closing the border next week.
I'm telling you right now. We will close the damn border.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ALLEN: But many including business groups and other Republicans and even some White House aides pointed out that closing the border could be an economic disaster. So, on Thursday, Mr. Trump said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're going to give them a one-year warning, and if the drugs don't stop or largely stopped, we're going to put tariffs on Mexico and if that doesn't stop the drugs, we close the border. I don't think we'll have to close the border because the penalty of tariffs on cars coming into the United States from Mexico at 25 percent, it will be massive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOWELL: Let's talk about it now with James Davis. James is the dean of the School of Economics and Political Science at the University of St. Gallen, joining this hour from Munich, Germany. James, good to have you.
JAMES DAVIS, DEAN, UNIVERSITY OF ST. GALLEN: Good morning, George.
HOWELL: Let's start with what the president has called a crisis consistently. He has threatened to close the southern border with Mexico. And now he's backing down from that threat saying that he will give Mexico one year to curb the flow of people crossing the border. What do you make of this about-face? Mr. Trump says, you know, tariffs could be on the way, focusing on cars, giving them a year, what do you make of it?
DAVIS: Well it's not a consistent story coming out of the White House, that's the first point. The president was speaking about crisis of illegal immigration into the United States, he was claiming that thousands and thousands of people were streaming across the border. Caravans were coming from Central America and this had to stop.
Now he's talking about drugs, and the crisis of drugs in the United States. So he's sort of shifting the focus of their discussion away from immigration toward the drug problems, all the while, of course, moving back with backtracking on his threat to close the border. Why? Because the Republicans and the Congress and the American business community warned him that if he did that it would be -- have catastrophic consequences on American business.
It would also lead to empty shelves in American markets that are relying on produce from South and Central America to keep people fed. So, this was an ill- thought through policy from the beginning. And the president has retreated, but he's been retreating on a number of issues.
HOWELL: All right. There's also the frustration that has reportedly been building among investigators in the special counsel's office. The attorney general's four-page assessment of their 400 page -- pages of work. They say that it goes too far in clearing the president.
At one point you'll remember Mr. Trump praised the work of these investigators. And now the White House is discounting them as leakers. Rudy Giuliani had some harsh words for them. James?
[03:24:58] DAVIS: Yes, I thought we are going to get a clip, I'm sorry.
No, I think this is exactly right. Again, the president is going to change his tune depending on where the story lines is going, as long as it look like the White House could control the story, and it looked like the president was going to be exonerated on both counts on the issue of collusion and the issue of obstruction of justice.
He was willing to sing the praises of the team around Mr. Mueller. Now it appears that there may in fact be much more critical and evidence in this report with respect to the question of obstruction of justice. Now of course, he's changing his tune again and it's going on attack against Mueller and his team.
The speaker the house is correct. The only way to really get this over with is to -- is to for everybody to have access to the full report. I think we're going to get a redacted version and the question will be how much does the attorney general blackout if in fact that is reasonable.
It looks like he's only redacting issues that are related to ongoing investigations or grand jury testimony, I think the Democrats will work with that. If, however it looks like he's trying to protect the president I think this is going to be just the beginning of the next round of the battle over the Mueller report.
HOWELL: Well, you know, we know the attorney general also had access to the summaries of the special counsel provided within that report. And now the House judiciary committee Jerry Nadler is demanding those summaries be released public. The question here, why didn't the public get those summaries that seem to be created for the public?
DAVIS: Yes, again, we don't know. I mean, I think the attorney general's office is going to claim that they need to reveal even those summaries to make sure that there is not -- not information in there that is privileged that relates to sources and methods of the FBI or the intelligence services that's related to grand jury testimony, that's related to individuals who are not charged. That there is a policy that one does not reveal damaging information against people who one decided not to charge with a crime to save their reputation.
So, I think they are going to claim they have to review those. But it sounds as if that review should be much more quick, something they could take care of in a much shorter amount of time than reviewing the whole 400 page report.
And it sounds again, it sounds like those reviews were meant for rapid transfer to the Congress. That hasn't happened. So I think this political ping-pong that we're playing is going to continue, it's going to continue until the Congress gets a look at that whole report.
HOWELL: James Davis with perspective. James, thank you again.
DAVIS: Thank you, George.
ALLEN: Ahead here, Boeing takes the blame after a preliminary crash report finds the pilots of that doomed Ethiopian flight followed all recommended procedures. But it wasn't enough to save them and all those on board. We'll have an interview about that coming next.
[03:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ALLEN: Welcome back to our viewers around the world, you are watching CNN Newsroom, I'm Natalie Allen.
HOWELL: And I'm George Howell with the headlines we are following for you this hour. For the first time, Boeing says the anti stall system on its 737 Max passenger jet that had played a role in both the Ethiopian and Lion Air crashes. This admission comes after a preliminary report found the automated system repeatedly force the plane into a dive, and the pilots couldn't regain control.
ALLEN: German Chancellor Angela Merkel, says she is hopeful cross party talks between Britain's Labour and Conservatives can break the Brexit impasse. She met Thursday with Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar in Dublin. Mrs. Merkel also said the E.U. will do everything it can to prevent a no-deal Brexit.
HOWELL: WikiLeaks says that its founder Julian Assange is about to be expelled from Ecuador's embassy in London. The tweet said, the eviction could come in days or even hours. Ecuador has declined to comment. Julian Assange has been in that embassy since 2012.
ALLEN: It is hard to believe, western nations are calling for calm in Libya after a renegade general ordered forces to advance on the nation's capital. Khalifa Haftar says he has deployed troops to western parts of the country to clear out militant groups. Its parallel administration has been at odds with the U.N. backed government in Tripoli for years.
HOWELL: And as we mentioned in the headlines here, Boeing made a rear admission of fault after two plane crashes just months apart, those plane crashes killing 346 people and an entire fleet of planes have been grounded.
ALLEN: A preliminary report into what caused the crash of Ethiopian Airlines flight 302 has found similarities to the earlier crashed of the Lion Air jet. CNN's senior investigative correspondent, Drew Griffin reports, cost saving by Boeing may have played a significant role.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: The final report. The CEO of Boeing making a rare admission, accepting blamed for two of its airliners that crashed.
DENNIS MUILENBURG, BOEING CEO: It's apparent that in both flights, the maneuvering characteristics augmentation system, known as MCAS, activated in response to erroneous angle of attack information. It is our responsibility to eliminate this risk. We own it, and we know how to do it.
GRIFFIN: The video message from Boeing comes after a devastating preliminary report released today, laying out the software issue apparently caused the crash of an Ethiopian Airlines flight last month. The report also suggesting the same issue may have caused the Lion Air flight to go down last year.
The preliminary report finds the pilots did everything required to try to bring the plane back safely, but ultimately could not control it. Former Boeing operations analyst Rick Ludtke, says during development of the 737 Max, Boeing had a mandate, make sure any changes to the plane would not require additional pilot training in the simulator.
RICK LUDTKE, FORMER BOEING FLIGHT CREW OPERATIONS ANALYST: Unprecedented. It never happened in the past that I'm aware of.
GRIFFIN: You are very uncomfortable with this.
Ludtke says Boeing managers told him they even sold the plane to Southwest Airlines, with a guarantee, a rebate of 1 million dollars per plane if simulator training was required. The flight controlled analysts said the demand to avoid simulator training, known as level D, took over design of the aircraft.
LUDTKE: Throughout the design iteration, all the status meeting with managers, that was something that was always asked, you know, are we threatened, are we risking level D? And if you are, you have to change. I think, philosophically, it was the wrong thing for the company to do to mandate such a limitation. To strongly avoid it, makes sense, but to prevent it, I think you can see the line from that to these accidents.
GRIFFIN: Federal investigators are now trying to determine if Boeing's cost saving moves could somehow lead to criminal charges.
Both Boeing and southwest airlines refuse to comment on their business deal that was referred to in this piece, but in the meantime, we are learning what is causing the delay in getting Boeing's software fix to the FAA. It was supposed to be sent last week, but has CNN has learned there was a glitch in integrating the software with other Boeing programs, which has now cause the delay. Drew Griffin, CNN, outside Boeing's Renton facility in Renton Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[03:35:00] ALLEN: Geoffrey Thomas joins us now, he is the editor in chief and managing director at airlineratings.com. He joins us from Perth, Australia. Good to see you, Jeffrey. I want to begin by asking you about this report --
GEOFFREY THOMAS, EDITOR IN CHIEF, MANAGING DIRECTOR, AIRLINERATINGS.COM: Hi, Natalie.
ALLEN: -- hello chief, that we just saw about reports indicating that Boeing did not want any extra pilot training with the new design, and that designed needed to avoid simulator training. What is your reaction to that?
THOMAS: Well, that is not unusual, because both Boeing and (inaudible) when they upgrade their designs, like the A320 from the A320 CO (ph) to the New York (ph), to a much larger engines, the same sort of things. There are software built in to the flight envelope that makes the two types -- the various types reacted exactly the same way.
This is something that is not new, it's been around for quite a few decades, particularly, with digital flight systems that we have today. It is very, very straightforward to do it. The design shortfall in the MCAS system, is possibly what we would refer to as a single point failure. Where you have a single point failure with the angle of attack sensor. And don't forget, it's a sensor malfunction that has activated the system.
So, where the shortfall may have been is that they should have had both sensors talking to the flight control system at the same time and comparing, and you have a disagree -- don't disagree systems. So, that is where the shortcoming may have been.
But at the same time, this report that has come out has also painted a disturbing picture about the way this plane was flown, because the plane was flown at full throttle takeoff power all the way to the end. Now this made handling this airplane exceedingly difficult with the problems that had. It was not only did they had angle of attack problems, they also had speed problems, and altitude problems.
So, possibly, it was a bird strike that hit this plane on takeoff, took out two or three different sensors. And these pilots were battling a multitude of failures before MCAS kicked in, plus the fact they were flying at full power, which made the plane almost impossible to control.
ALLEN: Let's talk about that a little bit, what they were dealing with in the seconds that they had to try and keep that plane flying, when it kept continuing to try to nosedive.
THOMAS: Yes, it did nosedive as you suggest and they switched the stabilizer trim system off, but then we believe, and we are still evaluating and trying to piece together, we believe that the high speed that they were traveling made correcting it manually an extremely difficult.
And we also understand that they possibly switch the system back on again. So, there is lots of conflicting information. We don't have all -- the report is very detailed, although some detail is left out. So, it's very difficult to do a forensic analysis of it at this stage and be completely confident that you have the true story.
ALLEN: I see. So, you're indicating, perhaps, there was some pilot error in association with this problem, with this new MCAS system.
THOMAS: Look, indeed. If the pilots, had left as we believe has been-- sort of stated -- if the pilots left the throttles at full takeoff power all the way through this tragic incident, than absolutely, there's a pilot issue in question here. Now the other thing too that Boeing, of course, won't say, that is in effect, and that is the co-pilot only had 361 hours total of flying time, that is it.
The captain had 8000 hours, but only 1400 hours on the 737. So, you know, if you're gonna have a pilot with 361 hours, that is not possible in the United States, by the way, it's a 1500 our minimum. If you are piled with that level of experience, then the captain who was flying the airplane has got to be far more experience in this particular captain was.
So, I think you have to young pilots who are under intense pressure, with lots of things are going wrong, cause possibly by bird strike taking out sensors. Multiple failures happening, and then the MCAS system took over, and we are full powers, therefore the plane was basically uncontrollable.
[03:40:08] ALLEN: Well, you raise more questions, and of course, we've only got in the preliminary report, there is much more investigating to be had in this case. We appreciate your insights, Geoffrey Thomas for us. Thank you, Geoffrey.
HOWELL: And the first wrongful death lawsuit connected to the Ethiopian Airlines crash has now been filed. It's on behalf of Samya Stumo, the 24-year-old American woman who is traveling for work when that plane went down. ALLEN: Her family filed a suit against Boeing Ethiopian Airlines and
parts manufacturer Rosemount Aerospace, her great uncle is consumer activist, Ralph Nader, who says Boeing should recall the planes. Her mother said, those who were killed should not die in vain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NADIA MILLERON, DAUGHTER DIED IN ETHIOPIAN AIRLINES CRASH: And people who died in Indonesia, are probably there should have been prevented, but certainly there death should not have been in vain. And more deaths happen. So, that is why we keep talking about a third crash that is entirely possible based on the whole situation that exists now.
And my uncle said these planes should be grounded, I don't know another way that we could be sure that this is not going to happen a third time. And as somebody who has lost the dearest person in my life, you know, I want her death not to be in vain, I don't want anybody else to die.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ALLEN: Attorneys representing Stumo's family are planning to file a separate claim against the Federal Aviation Administration.
Well, the man accused of committing New Zealand's worst mass shooting in modern history was formally charged in court Friday. The 28 year old suspect now faces dozens of counts of murder and attempted murder.
HOWELL: He is accused of killing Muslim worshippers in two Christchurch Mosque last month as they prayed. New Zealand Prime Minister has called, one of the country's darkest days. New Zealand has some very tight, very tough legal restrictions on reporting on this case.
ALLEN: Journalist, Blis Savidge was in the court room, Friday. She tell us what she saw.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLIS SAVIDGE, JOURNALIST: The alleged gunman appeared in court, Friday via an audio visual link. And while he was handcuffed generally look relaxed. Even a little bit uninterested at times looking around the room. The courtroom, small, full of family members, members of the media, with a large security presence, both inside the court and outside of the court.
Now, while the hearing was largely procedural and brief, they did officially announced 49 more counts of murder, and additional 39 counts of attempted murder, making a total of 50 counts of murder, and 39 counts of attempted murder. Now, with such an unprecedented case in New Zealand, people want to know, what is the maximum sentence that someone can received for such a crime if found guilty?
We talked to the Attorney General's office, while the Attorney General has no specific comment on the case, they did confirmed to us that under New Zealand legislation, the maximum sentence that someone can face is life in prison without parole. Now, while that is still a little bit a ways away, we do have immediately coming up in order a mental evaluation, which the judge wanted to stress was normal and not out in the ordinary for a case such as this.
Now, the defendant was remanded back into custody and is expected back in court on June 14th. Blis Savidge, CNN, Christchurch.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOWELL: Blis, thank you. Israel is just days away from electing a new government. Still ahead, we have a live report from Jerusalem. And check out the latest polls.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOWELL: Welcome back. Israeli voters pick a new government on Tuesday. New polling suggests the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will have the easiest path to forming a government and remaining in power. Our Michael Holmes is watching the campaign and he joins us this hour from Jerusalem. Michael, at one point the Prime Minister seemed to be in a tighter race, but new polling does seem to swing in his favor.
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the polls are notoriously unreliable but today, George, is the last day that polls can be reported in Israeli. You got all the major newspapers have one. As always they do very, but the consensus puts Benny Gantz and his Blue and White Party back in the head to head lead just a handful of seats ahead of Benjamin Netanyahu, depending on the poll, one to five seats ahead.
Now, that head to head is important, because it's a clear leader emerges they would be ask to form a government, but would have to do so in coalition with some of nearly a dozen smaller parties, and this the thing, when you look at where those parties will likely throw their support.
Benjamin Netanyahu with the advantage overall, but it's not a clear one, and he can be forced to bring in some far right parties which will have their own demands and agendas. And it could end up being a fragile arrangement. Some of the parties who say they will support him may not meet the threshold to get seats in (inaudible).
As for Benny Gantz and his Blue and White, analyst say, he would really need a lead of six or seven head to head in order for the president to then give him the first chance to form a government. Its Israeli politics, it is complicated, George.
HOWELL: This is a Prime Minister who is facing investigation also a Prime Minister who again was behind in the polls, but did his trip -- recent trip to the United States, Michael, meeting with the U.S. President and President Trump support on the issue on the Golan Heights. Did that play into any of this?
HOLMES: Yes, it certainly did, I mean, Benjamin Netanyahu's been trying to polish his foreign policy credentials. On the leader on the world stage for some time. I mean, meaning with Donald Trump was no accident. You had the Brazilian leader Jair Bolsonaro here as well, and of course, just yesterday Mr. Netanyahu going off to Moscow to stand in front of the cameras with Vladimir Putin.
All part of the campaigning in many ways. And that campaigning of course, in its final stretch, you've got both Benny Gantz and Netanyahu trying to win over, whoever is undecided at the moment. And that is pretty critical, five to 10 percent of voters, analyst say is undecided at the moment. And that is more than enough to decide the election.
It's worth remembering, George, that back in 2015, Benjamin Netanyahu was behind in these final polls. And he was able to play the underdog. Energized his base, get out and vote for the throwing in the fear factor if you like, but he is not the underdog this time. Our next view of the results will be exit polls that weren't be until voting ends, 10:00 p.m. Local Time, Tuesday, George.
HOWELL: Michael Holmes will be following it for us live there in Jerusalem. Michael, thank you.
ALLEN: And coming up the truth about President Trump and the truth is, well he doesn't speak it very often. We'll have the story next.
[03:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ALLEN: Well, it's no secret U.S. President Donald Trump isn't on the best of terms with the truth. Since taking office he has made thousands of false or misleading claims that is according to the Washington Post.
HOWELL: And in a CNN's Gloria Borger reports he's long history of falsehood goes back decades.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: One day three whoppers, even for Donald Trump impressive.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My father is German, right? Was German and born in a very wonderful place in Germany.
BORGER: Fred Trump was born in New York City, and then there's his latest suggestion of election fraud, all, but saying that the 2018 midterms were rigged by the Democrats.
TRUMP: There were a lot of close elections that were -- they seem to every single one of them went Democrat. If it was close, they said the Democrat, well, there's something going on, you got to -- hey, but we have to be a little bit careful. Because I don't like the way the votes are being tallied, I don't like it.
BORGER: He doesn't like wind turbines either.
TRUMP: And they say the noise causes cancer, you tell me that one, OK.
BORGER: Even his staff couldn't figure that one out.
MERCEDES SCHLAPP, WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: I don't have an answer on that. I don't have an answer on that one.
BORGER: All just the latest addition to more than just 9,000 false or misleading claims made by this president, according to the Washington Post fact checkers. As Donald Trump himself said last year --
TRUMP: What you're seeing and what you are reading is not what is happening.
BORGER: Donald Trump has had a fraught relationship with the truth. One that goes back decades. To the building and selling of Trump Tower, where Barbara Res manage construction.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He planted that Princess Diana was looking for an apartment on Trump Tower.
BORGER: And that didn't happen?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, but it made the papers.
BORGER: Sure. So voracity wasn't part of it, it was just getting the buzz out there about Trump.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BORGER: Did you guys laugh at it or?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, there was nothing so terrible about it, I mean, you know, it was kind of like puffing, you know, it's like exaggerating.
BORGER: Tony Schwarz, co-author of Trump's Art of the Deal, has a name for this.
TONY SCHWARTZ, CO-AUTHOR, THE ART OF THE DEAL: I came up with this phrase, truthful hyperbole. Which is, you know, I called it an innocent form of exaggeration. Now, I can call something that I actually sold for $2 million, I can say $10 million and that becomes truthful hyperbole. The problem is that there is no such thing as truthful hyperbole, the truth is the truth, hyperbole is a lie. They don't go together.
BORGER: And they didn't go together during the troubled opening of Trump's Atlantic City Taj Mahal casino in 1990, when some of the slots didn't work.
ALAN LAPIDUS, ARCHITECT FOR DONALD TRUMP: When the casino control commission went down there on opening day to check out that all the things had been done, many things had not been done. They shut down a third of the slots.
BORGER: Slots that were critical to the casinos success. LAPIDUS: The slots are the prime revenue producer of the casino. To
shut down a third on opening day was both humiliating and financially disastrous. It was only done because he didn't have, you know, an organization in depth.
BORGER: But that wasn't the story, Trump told.
JACK O'DONNELL, MANAGER, TRUMP PLAZA CASINO: Something could go bad, like the opening of the Taj and he would say it's because we had so much business here that this happened, not that the systems broke down. Not that we don't know what we were doing. We had so much business that broke down. Truly, he just would lie about everything.
BORGER: And he did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about the slot machine thing, when they were down for a while?
TRUMP: The slots were so hot, nobody's -- again, nobody seen people play that hard and that fast.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, it blew out the slots, literally?
[03:55:00] TRUMP: They blew apart. We have machines that -- they were virtually --
O'DONNELL: Donald is so wrapped up in hyperbole that it's almost constant lies. You know, whether it's the littlest things, were, you know, if you had 2000 people at an event, you know, he would say there were 5000 people at the event.
BORGER: Lying when there seems to be no reason to lie.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no belief system.
SCHWARTZ: If it will work, I will say. If it stops working, I will say its opposite, and I will not feel any compunction about saying its opposite, because I don't believe anything in the first place.
BORGER: Lying, when it's in his political interest, as he did last July after his disastrous press conference with Vladimir Putin, trying to walk back this remark on election interference.
TRUMP: My people came to me, Dan Coats came to me, and some others, they said, they think its Russia, I have President Putin, he just said it's not Russia. I will say this, I don't see any reason why it would be.
In a key sentence in my remarks, I said the word would instead of wouldn't, instead, it should have been I don't see any reason why I wouldn't, or why it wouldn't be Russia.
SCHWARTZ: Seen it from his perspective, it doesn't make a distinction between what is true and what is false. His only distinction is what will work, and what will not work.
BORGER: And what happens when he is challenged with facts? What does he do?
SCHWARTZ: He has a genius, you know, perverse genius for turning any situation into something that is evidence of his brilliance. Even if it is not true.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOWELL: That was our Gloria Borger reporting there and according to one sports writer, Mr. Trump is also known for falsehoods on the golf course.
ALLEN: Yes. In a new book, acclaimed Sportswriter, Rick Reilly tells several stories of Mr. Trump cheating at the sport, as Rick, puts it, like a mafia accountant. Reilly says Mr. Trump has a compulsion to win at all costs. We will leave it there, thanks for watching CNN Newsroom, I'm Natalie Allen.
HOWELL: And I'm George Howell, the news continues right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's our responsibility to eliminate this risk. We own it and we know how to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
END
