Return to Transcripts main page
New Day
Trump's Problem With The Truth Spans Decades; Anthony Scaramucci On President Trump's Problem With The Truth; Prison Consultant Advising Parents Charged In College Scam. Aired 7:30-8a ET
Aired April 05, 2019 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[07:30:00] (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GLORIA BERGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): -- Tower where Barbara Res managed the construction.
BARBARA RES, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT, THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION: He planted that Princess Di was looking for an apartment in Trump Tower.
BORGER (on camera): And that didn't happen?
RES: No --
BORGER: Oh.
RES: -- but it made the papers.
BORGER: Sure. So veracity wasn't a part of it. It was just getting the buzz out there --
RES: Yes.
BORGER: -- about --
RES: Yes.
BORGER: -- Trump? Did you guys laugh at it or --
RES: Yes. There was nothing so terrible about it. I mean, you know, it was kind of life puffing. You know, it was like exaggerating.
BORGER (voice-over): Tony Schwartz, co-author of Trump's "Art of the Deal," has a name for this.
TONY SCHWARTZ, CO-AUTHOR, "TRUMP: THE ART OF THE DEAL": I came up with this phrase "truthful hyperbole," which is -- I called it an innocent form of exaggeration. Now I can call something that I actually sold for $2 million -- I can say $10 million and that becomes truthful hyperbole.
The problem is that there is no such thing as truthful hyperbole. The truth is the truth. Hyperbole is a lie. They don't go together. BORGER: And they didn't go together during the troubled opening of Trump's Atlantic City Taj Mahal Casino in 1990 when some of the slots didn't work.
ALAN LAPIDUS, ARCHITECT FOR DONALD TRUMP: And when the Casino Control Commission went down there on opening day to check out that all the things had been done, many things hadn't been done and they shut down a third of the slots.
BORGER: Slots that were critical to the casino's success.
LAPIDUS: The slots are the prime revenue-producer of the casino. To shut down the third on opening day was both humiliating and financially disastrous and it was only done because he doesn't have an organization in-depth (ph).
BORGER: But that wasn't the story Trump told.
JACK O'DONNELL, MANAGER, TRUMP PLAZA CASINO, ATLANTA CITY, NEW JERSEY: Something could go bad, like the opening of the Taj, and he would say it's because we had so much business here that this happened, not that the systems broke down, not that we didn't know what we were doing. We had so much business it broke down.
Truly, he just would lie about everything.
BORGER: And he did.
LARRY KING, CNN HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE" (1990): What about the slot machine thing where they were down for a while?
DONALD TRUMP, THEN-BUSINESSMAN: The slots were so hot nobody's -- again, nobody's seen people play that hard and that fast.
KING: So what -- it blew out the slots, literally?
TRUMP: They blew apart. We had machines that --
KING: Was it like too much -- like a fuse?
TRUMP: -- they were virtually on fire.
O'DONNELL: Donald is so wrapped up in hyperbole that it's almost constant lies. You know, whether it's the littlest things where if you had -- if you had 2,000 people at an event he would say there were 5,000 people at an event.
BORGER: Lying when there seems to be no reason to lie.
SCHWARTZ: There's no belief system. If it will work, I will say it. If it stops working, I'll say it's opposite and I will not feel any compunction about saying it's opposite because I don't believe anything in the first place.
BORGER: Lying when it's in his political interest, as he did last July after his disastrous press conference with Vladimir Putin, trying to walk back this remark on election interference.
TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My people came to me. Dan Coats came to me and some others. They said they think it's Russia.
I have President Putin. He just said it's not Russia. I will say this. I don't see any reason why it would be.
In a key sentence in my remarks, I said the word "would" instead of "wouldn't." The sentence should have been, "I don't see any reason why I wouldn't -- or why it wouldn't be Russia."
SCHWARTZ: Seeing it from his perspective doesn't make a distinction between what's true and what's false. He -- his only distinction is what will work and what will not work.
BORGER (on camera): And what happens when he's challenged with facts? What does he do?
SCHWARTZ: He has genius -- you know, perverse genius for turning any situation into something that is evidence of his brilliance, even if it's not true.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BORGER: And one more thing about Donald Trump's father, who was really born in New York, as we said. In "The Art of the Deal," Trump says he was born in New Jersey. Go figure, guys.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Well, that I understand. I mean, everybody wants to be born in New Jersey. I understand that lie.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, that's just crazy and now you've -- now you've gone into crazy.
CAMEROTA: No, I don't know. There's a badge of honor.
BORGER: Bronx, New Jersey, whatever.
CAMEROTA: But, I mean -- Gloria, I think that the interesting thing is that so many people know he's lying, he does it with such -- in such a flagrant way. Isn't that embarrassing that when people, like, know and call him out on it?
BORGER: You would think so, but I think Trump sees it all as part of his entertainment shtick and hyperbole, as Tony Schwartz said in there.
So I embellish a little bit. That's what we do in real estate. We embellish how much an apartment sold for. Puffery, they call it.
And why not do it with everything else in my life? Why not say my father was born in Germany when I want to talk about NATO? Why not?
CAMEROTA: Gloria Borger, thank you --
BORGER: Sure. CAMEROTA: -- very much for that long look at this history.
BERMAN: All right, we're going to talk much more about this -- the impact on the White House when the president lies like this. What does it do to people in the West Wing?
[07:35:05] Well, there's someone who knows. Anthony Scaramucci, he was there and he joins us now this morning for his analysis.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BERMAN: All right. Moments ago, you heard Gloria Borger explain President Donald Trump's history with the truth -- years, sometimes decades of lying. The question is, why does he do it, what does he get out of it, and what's the impact now that he's President of the United States?
Joining me is former White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci. He is the founder and co-managing partner of SkyBridge Capital and the author of "Trump: The Blue-Collar President." Anthony, great to have you.
ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, FOUNDER AND CO-MANAGING PARTNER, SKYBRIDGE CAPITAL, AUTHOR, "TRUMP: THE BLUE-COLLAR PRESIDENT": Hey, good morning.
BERMAN: You know --
SCARAMUCCI: Good to be here. It's always good to be here.
BERMAN: We talked about this before and I want to remind you that this was October of 2018 where you took a position on the president in honesty. Watch this.
SCARAMUCCI: I told the truth.
BERMAN: Yes, watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCARAMUCCI: Nobody should lie. I'm not a big believer in lying but politicians happen to lie.
BERMAN: Do you want to say that to the camera and to the president?
SCARAMUCCI: Nobody should lie --
BERMAN: Mr. President.
SCARAMUCCI: -- but you're a politician now, so politicians lie when their lips are moving. And so, all these people lie.
But you should probably dial down the line because you don't need to. You're doing a great job for the country. So dial that down and you'll be doing a lot better.
You don't want to be stuck in the mid-40s going into the 2020 reelection.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[07:40:03] BERMAN: That's pretty good advice. Yes, first of all, two Scaramuccis there was probably a dream for a lot of people.
SCARAMUCCI: Two Scaramuccis but one was after the Disney cruise, so I've obviously got to shrink up a little bit. But go ahead -- keep going, John.
BERMAN: "Dial down the line" --
SCARAMUCCI: Right.
BERMAN: -- you said in October of 2018. Has he dialed down the line?
SCARAMUCCI: No, he's very consistent. He's probably consistent over the last 40 years in terms of the way he frames a narrative and a story.
I tried to tell Bill Maher, literally, like two days after that why he does it and Bill cut me off. But I'll explain it to you.
He does it because he thinks it's fun. And he also does it because he likes the fact that you guys are talking about it. At the end of the day, for him, he's figured out that there's a very large group of people inside of our population that when he does it and the media talks about it they laugh.
And I'll give you a very vivid example of this. I was in Detroit -- actually, Birmingham, Michigan two nights ago making a presentation and somebody came over to me and said, "I'm going to tell you the main reason why I voted for the president." I said, "Well, what was that?"
And he goes, "I don't like the establishment. I don't like the political establishment, I don't like the media establishment, and I like seeing him tweak those people."
Again, you don't have to accept that --
BERMAN: Yes.
SCARAMUCCI: -- or other people don't like it. I don't like it. I tell the president, hey, you don't need to do that. There's no reason --
BERMAN: Right.
SCARAMUCCI: -- for you to tell these fables or these stories.
You're doing a very good job on the economy. You're doing a great job. The whole NATO discussion, I think, is going in the right direction.
We can pick different categories John and say hey, by and large, he's done a great job. Why do you have to tell lies? But the -- you know, it started out probably when he was in the real estate business and that 3-bedroom apartment had like probably extra square footage or a window view in the bathroom. You know all the stuff that happens.
BERMAN: Why is he antiestablishment, though? The problem with that explanation -- and I'm not --
SCARAMUCCI: No, no. What is antiestablishment is you talking about it and you being upset about it. That actually --
BERMAN: Why shouldn't I be upset about it? Not me -- this isn't about me.
SCARAMUCCI: Because he finds it amusing.
BERMAN: But why shouldn't a voter --
SCARAMUCCI: You should be.
BERMAN: Why shouldn't any of us be upset when he makes stuff up?
SCARAMUCCI: Well, you see, the American people are actually tired of the establishment. The establishment has actually failed the American --
BERMAN: This is -- this is -- it's a false choice between the establishment and lying. I mean, the American people may be sick of the establishment.
SCARAMUCCI: You're not paying -- you're not paying attention. Maybe I'm not being nuanced enough. You're not paying attention.
The American people don't like the establishment.
BERMAN: Yes.
SCARAMUCCI: He wouldn't be president if the American people liked the establishment.
BERMAN: Yes.
SCARAMUCCI: They don't like the Democratic establishment or the Republican establishment.
BERMAN: Granted.
SCARAMUCCI: And so -- and they also don't like elements of the media, OK? No offense, but just being honest, OK? And by the way, I am a part of the media so I'm sure a lot --
BERMAN: OK.
SCARAMUCCI: -- of them don't like me. So, I'm just explaining to you what's going on. So now, when he's telling those lies and people get upset about it, he's like OK, good. I'm going to have a good part of the media sound like Charlie Brown's teacher, either in the morning or on late-night when they're calling me out on my 9,000 fibs.
And so, he likes it.
BERMAN: What do you think --
SCARAMUCCI: I really think he likes it. I think he laughs about it.
BERMAN: What do you think the downside is? What do you think the downside is?
SCARAMUCCI: Well, the downside is he's got eight to 15 percent of the people that he needs to win for reelection, meaning he's probably got 35 to 40 percent of the people that like him, and we used to call those people the Fifth Avenue people. He said, you know, I could shoot people on Fifth Avenue and still keep those people.
And then he's got probably eight to 15 percent of the people that he needs in 2020 to build that coalition again to win reelection. And a lot of those people are moderates and Independents and they scratch their heads and say why is he doing that? And it makes them more cautious about wanting to vote for him.
So, to me, dial down the Twitter.
BERMAN: Yes.
SCARAMUCCI: Don't be a bully on Twitter. That upsets --
BERMAN: Yes.
SCARAMUCCI: -- women, OK. It upsets men, too, but it really upsets women. Be less of a bully on Twitter.
Be a little nicer. Your poll numbers will go up and you win reelection.
BERMAN: Why should you believe a guy who lies so much?
SCARAMUCCI: Well, I don't -- but they don't believe any of them. See, that was the point I was trying to make to you in October. When a politician opens his mouth, they're lying. I mean, they lie when their lips are moving.
BERMAN: No, this is -- this is -- this is a different --
SCARAMUCCI: Then tell me the -- OK, hold on a second. Let me -- let me throw it back to you.
BERMAN: Yes.
SCARAMUCCI: Tell me the politician that you've met or the politician on in the American landscape -- BERMAN: You're tying the things that he says to statements like a --
SCARAMUCCI: Just tell me the one that you think is telling the truth.
BERMAN: -- typical politician, right? This is -- this is saying --
SCARAMUCCI: Tell me the one that's telling the truth.
BERMAN: This is saying your dad's born in Germany when he's not born in Germany.
SCARAMUCCI: Yes, that's because he's trying to endear himself to the Germans and he's saying that he doesn't really care that you're going to fact-check him.
BERMAN: It's a lie.
SCARAMUCCI: OK, but listen.
BERMAN: I understand -- I understand what you're saying. I get --
SCARAMUCCI: Eisenhower got to the podium --
BERMAN: I get what you're saying. But I'm talking about the voters. But I'm saying --
SCARAMUCCI: The CIA said hey, that pilot -- that pilot died.
BERMAN: -- to you --
SCARAMUCCI: Tell everybody it's a weather balloon.
BERMAN: -- how do you tell a voter -- how do you -- you know, you're still a Trump supporter. How do you tell a Trump supporter that you should believe what the president says when you don't always?
SCARAMUCCI: What I -- what I tell a Trump supporter is the president is -- you know, he's classic Gemini where he's got like two personalities going on in there. He's got a good side and he's got a little bit of that devilish streak in his personality where he likes tweaking people.
If you can accept the whole package, which I have and a lot of his supporters have, vote for the guy. If you can't accept the whole package, I understand why you're not voting for him.
[07:45:03] And if was the president's adviser --
BERMAN: Yes.
SCARAMUCCI: -- which I'm actually not -- but if I was his adviser, I'd say hey, dial it back a little bit. You'll pick up those voters and you'll win reelection.
BERMAN: And I just want to make clear -- you know, all politicians do it, that's a cop-out -- that's a cop-out. SCARAMUCCI: No, it's not.
BERMAN: It is a cop-out compared to what he's doing.
SCARAMUCCI: It's true, it's true.
BERMAN: It's a cop-out.
SCARAMUCCI: When Eisenhower was told by the CIA that the kid died -- the pilot died, for instance -- Gary Powers -- he went to the microphone and said it was a weather balloon.
BERMAN: OK.
SCARAMUCCI: And then he blew up the summit, OK, with Khrushchev and it was --
BERMAN: That's a lie and I'm not justifying it, but he did that for national security reasons and that's Ike.
And if you're comparing the president -- you know, President Trump lying about his father being in Germany --
SCARAMUCCI: You know why I compared Ike to Trump?
BERMAN: Yes.
SCARAMUCCI: Because I wanted -- I wanted to get your reaction, OK? But, you know --
BERMAN: You know, but I'm saying -- but --
SCARAMUCCI: -- Ike, to you, is a vicar of honesty and decency. He's a five-star general and you don't like the president saying --
BERMAN: No, I --
SCARAMUCCI: -- 9,000 lies. But the president --
BERMAN: I don't like anyone lying. I don't like anyone lying and you shouldn't like anyone lying, and I know you don't, and the voters shouldn't like anyone lying.
SCARAMUCCI: No, I don't. And by the way, but I have lied.
BERMAN: Yes.
SCARAMUCCI: If you're the only person that hasn't lied, I'd be surprised by that. Most people in our lifetime --
BERMAN: Yes.
SCARAMUCCI: -- do tell lies, OK, and not even just white lies. They tell big lies, OK?
So, to me -- BERMAN: You and I aren't the President of the United States.
SCARAMUCCI: I know.
BERMAN: You and I can't move the market --
SCARAMUCCI: I know.
BERMAN: -- with our lies. Maybe you can more than I can.
SCARAMUCCI: No, but --
BERMAN: You know, you and I --
SCARAMUCCI: -- the market's priced him -- if we're talking about the market, they've priced him.
BERMAN: You and I can't, you know --
SCARAMUCCI: Let me tell you --
BERMAN: -- start a nuclear war with our lies.
SCARAMUCCI: I've been in the market for 30 years. I'm running $10 billion. The market's price him. They've priced him.
BERMAN: They've priced him as a liar?
SCARAMUCCI: They've priced his personality, OK, because any other --
BERMAN: That's -- what does that tell you that the market -- that the market --
SCARAMUCCI: -- president -- there were 43 -- there were 43 other presidents --
BERMAN: Yes.
SCARAMUCCI: You know, there were 43 other presidents and Grover Cleveland did it twice.
BERMAN: I'm aware of that.
SCARAMUCCI: OK, so the 43 other presidents -- any other president that acted like President Trump, that market would be zigging and zagging way harder than it is right now.
Now, I don't love the market's liquidity. We could talk about that if you want but it's not a business show.
But the market's priced him. What does that tell you about the market? The market's a smart collective group of people, men and women --
BERMAN: Yes.
SCARAMUCCI: -- and they recognize that the president's actually way more stable, way more rational.
BERMAN: All right.
SCARAMUCCI: And sometimes he comes across when he's saying that his dad was born in Germany.
BERMAN: OK, the dad born in Germany is one thing that's just a flat- out, scratch your head, what the heck is going on there lie.
SCARAMUCCI: The oranges -- the oranges thing was funny, too, I thought.
BERMAN: I do want to -- well, that was just misspeaking, you know --
SCARAMUCCI: That's fine. He probably a little --
BERMAN: -- and I do think it's -- a lie is a lie.
SCARAMUCCI: But by the way, let's be candid. This guy's one of the smartest guys I know, OK. He doesn't have Alzheimer's, dementia, and that. He might be a little tired, though.
BERMAN: Maybe.
SCARAMUCCI: Sometimes when I'm tired --
BERMAN: Maybe.
SCARAMUCCI: -- I misspeak and I say words that I shouldn't say.
BERMAN: I don't know. When he says his father is born in Germany I don't know if he thinks he was when he's saying that.
SCARAMUCCI: No, he doesn't think he was.
BERMAN: All right, I don't know.
SCARAMUCCI: He's saying that stuff to the German people right at that moment.
BERMAN: There's a line like that --
SCARAMUCCI: Right.
BERMAN: -- and then there's policy stuff. And I don't know if this is a lie or it's just a bait and switch, but the stuff with the border where he says last week -- or, you know, five days ago -- I'm likely to close the border --
SCARAMUCCI: Yes.
BERMAN: -- in the next week.
SCARAMUCCI: That would be a mistake.
On health care, he goes -- well, the policy, it being a mistake aside --
SCARAMUCCI: Yes.
BERMAN: -- he said he was going to it --
SCARAMUCCI: Right.
BERMAN: -- and then within three days he back out.
On health care, he said I'm going to propose we're going to have a new health care plan. It's going to be the best plan ever. And now, he says he's not going to do it until after the election.
This gets to the question I asked you before, though --
SCARAMUCCI: Yes.
BERMAN: -- which is when he says something like going forward, the next time he says something why should I voter believe it?
SCARAMUCCI: Well again, those are strategies by him. That's a little bit different than the lying part.
BERMAN: I said that. I stipulated that.
SCARAMUCCI: Those are negotiations. So what's happening with him there -- in my opinion, he's -- that's positional bargaining, so he's negotiating. He's throwing things out there.
He's taking a tough line and he wants to see what's going to happen to the other side. He has figured out over 45 or 50 years if he acts very, very tough in a situation he can get a lot of people to fold.
And so, he's up against some very tough cookies, right, like Speaker Pelosi. Remember what her daughter said about her. She'd cut your neck off without you feeling it.
BERMAN: She said it to me.
SCARAMUCCI: Yes. I think it's a fabulous line about Speaker Pelosi. I'm proud of her as an Italian American, OK.
So -- but here's the thing I would tell you. He's not going to get what he wants all the time.
And if you shut the border that would be a disaster for the economy. And the one thing I know about the president -- the one poll number that he's really looking at more than any other is the S&P 500 and the Dow Jones. You shut the border, you're going to --
BERMAN: Yes.
SCARAMUCCI: -- you're going to crush the economy and the market's going to plunge at a time when you don't want it to happen. So stop talking about shutting the border.
BERMAN: Anthony Scaramucci, it is a pleasure to have you on.
SCARAMUCCI: I didn't tell --
BERMAN: Thank you.
SCARAMUCCI: I didn't tell any lies in that seven minutes --
BERMAN: Thank you, though you admitted --
SCARAMUCCI: -- that I'm aware of.
BERMAN: Though you admitted -- you admitted you have in the past. Great to have you here.
SCARAMUCCI: Yes, but you haven't, so you are --
BERMAN: I didn't say that. Great to have you here -- Alisyn.
CAMEROTA: All right, thanks, guys.
Now to the college admissions scam. Are some of the parents accused of trying to buy their kids' way into college now trying to buy their way out of prison time? We'll explore.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:54:12] BERMAN: Spring is here but according to those who have been outside it doesn't feel like it.
CAMEROTA: I can attest to that.
BERMAN: Storming weather is heading to the East Coast. CNN meteorologist Jennifer Gray has the forecast -- Jennifer.
JENNIFER GRAY, AMS METEOROLOGIST: That's right, John, quite a mess across the East for today. You can see all of the rain just slowly pushing up to the Northeast, and even some snow there through Pennsylvania. That's going to reach Northern New England as we go through the afternoon hours.
This weather is brought to you by the Shark Self-Cleaning Brushroll. The vacuum that deep cleans now cleans itself.
So we are going to see a possibility of thunderstorms as well as we go through the day today. Most of the mid-Atlantic and the Northeast will be showers -- not going to be severe.
Along the Gulf Coast is where we're going to see the stronger storms and into Texas. We have some very rich tropical moisture that's going to be feeding these storms. And so, we could see the possibility of damaging winds, large hail, isolated tornadoes today, once again as we go into tomorrow, and then yes, again on Sunday. All of these staying in the South.
[07:55:12] But that warm air will reach the Northeast, especially by the weekend. Once the rain gets out of the way today, feeling like the 70s, guys, for New York City, Saturday and Sunday.
CAMEROTA: All right, Jennifer. Thank you very much for all of that.
So, the college admissions scandal has exposed the lengths to which wealthy people will go to buy access. Because of that, they could be headed to prison. Among them, of course, Hollywood actresses Lori Loughlin and Felicity Huffman, who face anywhere between six to 21 months if they are convicted.
Well, now CNN has confirmed that at least one parent linked to this case has hired a special prison consultant. What can he do for them? Let's ask him.
Justin Paperny is the co-founder of White Collar Advice, which advises people facing time in federal prisons.
Mr. Paperny, I didn't even know this was a thing, prison consultant. What do you teach your clients?
JUSTIN PAPERNY, CO-FOUNDER, WHITE COLLAR ADVICE, PRISON CONSULTANT: Well, our goal is to help our clients try to convey to the judge through their own efforts why they're worthy of mercy. We have to understand there is a cynicism in the way the government views a defendant. They're judged for the worst out-of-character decision they've ever made.
So our goal is not to buy them out of jail but rather, ask the court to take the totality of their lives into consideration. They're good people who made some bad decisions and we ask that that be considered at sentencing.
CAMEROTA: But this is the irony Mr. Paperny, of course, which is that they are charged with trying to buy their kids' way into college and now it does seem that they are paying to buy their way out of prison.
PAPERNY: Well, they're not trying to buy their way out of prison but rather, trying to articulate how they accept responsibility, why they made some bad decisions. Try to develop a sense of perspective and frankly, identify with their victims if they end up pleading guilty.
In this way, it's done transparently while recognizing they're up against the United States government that has endless resources and is in a position to paint them as a criminal -- as someone who cheats --
CAMEROTA: Yes.
PAPERNY: -- and takes advantage of others.
So to the extent they can change that narrative, I think they're simply equalizing the playing field. They're not buying themselves out of anything. They're trying to equalize the game, so to speak.
CAMEROTA: Yes. I mean, I get -- I can see now why your service is so valuable, but you are helping them craft a persona that will be more sympathetic to the judge. PAPERNY: We help any defendant willing to invest the time and identify four points. They express remorse, identify with the victims, and then articulate to a judge why they'll never return to a courtroom.
I was a federal defendant and served time in prison. I did it horrifically and it's the reason our company derives satisfaction in helping people, frankly, do better than the criminal justice system spits out on a daily basis. There's too much failure. I think we have an obligation to help them do better.
CAMEROTA: How much does your service cost?
PAPERNY: It varies from $9.00 to $20,000, $30,000, $40,000 and everything in between.
CAMEROTA: That's a wide range. How much per hour?
PAPERNY: We typically do not do an hourly rate, though we can, and that can range from $50.00 to a couple of hundred dollars, and much higher and much lower.
Our goal -- it's easy to paint our company as those helping the privileged. The reality is any defendant willing to invest the time, we're able to help. It's not a matter of means, it's a matter of effort, finding perspective, not complaining, and working to create a new record that is different than how prosecutors are going to judge them at a sentencing hearing. That's their opportunity and challenge.
CAMEROTA: Which parent are you working with in this college admissions scandal?
PAPERNY: I'd love to tell you but I cannot.
CAMEROTA: Does that parent -- is it a celebrity parent?
PAPERNY: I'd love to tell you but I cannot.
CAMEROTA: Does that parent appreciate the gravity of what's happened? Does that parent accept responsibility or does that parent, at this point while you're working with him or her, still believe that they were doing what was in the best interest of their kid?
PAPERNY: Initially, the focus is on the defendant. How is my life imploding? I may go to federal prison. Then, in time, helping them understand what success is -- namely, the shortest federal prison sentence -- helps them begin to accept responsibility and perhaps recognize their decisions may have hurt and impacted others.
From there, we seek to develop a sense of perspective, namely that people in our country have endured much worse and have overcome. And lastly, in the totality of their life have done well. This should be a tiny, tiny blip.
I told a client in this case, I hope you live to be 100 years old and if this turns out to be two or three years, it's a couple of percent to your life. Do not let it define your life and become a life sentence, which is too often the case with our miserable, wretched criminal justice system.
CAMEROTA: Justin Paperny, your business is called White Collar Advice, something that I guess a lot of people need right now. Thank you very much for explaining it to us.
PAPERNY: Thank you for inviting me.
BERMAN: Another good name for the business would be "I'd love to tell you but I can't" -- which is a great phrase.
CAMEROTA: I think he told me a lot. He told me a lot about how --
BERMAN: He did.
CAMEROTA: -- the business works, just not who his clients are.
BERMAN: Interesting.
CAMEROTA: Another week, another about-face at the Trump White House. NEW DAY continues right now.
END
