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Barr Won't Say If White House Briefed on Mueller Report; Mnuchin & Waters Clash at Hearing on Trump's Tax Returns; Netanyahu Set to Win Historic 5th Term as Israeli P.M.; Rep. Nita Lowey (D-NY) is Interviewed about Barr's Testimony Before Congress. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired April 10, 2019 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIAM BARR, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Within a week, I will release the report to the public.

[07:00:28] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was hired to keep as much of this hidden as he possibly can.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): If the report indicates no collusion, that's it. Done, over.

SEN. MAXINE WATERS (D-CA): You're not afraid you will be fired if you release the returns?

STEVE MNUCHIN, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: I'm not afraid at all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mnuchin was very measured. He was precise in his language.

WATERS: If you wish to leave, you may.

MNUCHIN: The Republicans did not treat the secretary this way.

PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: If you're going in front of your Oversight Committee, you can win on facts; you can't win on emotion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As it stands, this race is too close to call.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He has a pretty clear path. The center left is looking weak.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rivlin and Netanyahu are not friends. We can see which way the president jumped.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Good morning, everyone.

Welcome to your NEW DAY. This morning we are preparing for the release of the "Grease" prequel, which we are told is imminent.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: That is the headline.

BERMAN: And there is other news today, as well. Very shortly, Attorney General William Barr will be back on Capitol Hill after his first day of testimony there.

There are several major questions unanswered and several questions that he notably raised with his non-answers. Namely, what has he told the White House about the contents of the Mueller report?

Barr refused to answer whether the president and his lawyers might already know more than Congress and the public about what's inside the report. Barr did tell lawmakers they will have a redacted version of that report soon, within days. But Democrats in Congress, they want more. They're vowing to issue a subpoena for the full version.

CAMEROTA: Meanwhile, it appears the IRS will miss the deadline today that was set by House Democrats to turn over six years of President Trump's tax returns.

Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin sparred with Democrats over that demand and revealed that his department has been in touch with White House lawyers about the president's taxes. Mnuchin then got into it with Congresswoman Maxine Waters over the hearing's length.

BERMAN: Joining us now, Abby Phillip, CNN White House correspondent; David Gregory, CNN political analyst; and Seung Min Kim, White House reporter for "The Washington Post."

Hey, look, I think the big headline there is we're going to see the report within days. We sort of knew that.

The other headline was when Barr refused to answer whether or not he has been talking to the White House about the contents of this report. Let's play that exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NITA LOWEY (D-NY): Did the White House see the report before you released your summarizing letter? Has the White House seen it since then? Have they been briefed on the contents beyond what was in your summarizing letter to the Judiciary Committee?

BARR: I've said what I'm going to say about the report today. I'm not going to say more about it until the report is out and everyone has a chance to look at it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So he actually said quite a bit in the hearing before he got to that point but held the line on whether or not he's been talking to the White House. They said they didn't speak before Barr released his summary. But have they been talking since, Abby? They really opened the door to that possibility. And it does raise some questions. ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is the

puzzling thing about Barr's refusal to answer that question. And it's that other people involved in this, whether it's the president lawyer -- the president's lawyers or the president himself, and even Barr in other contexts have said at different points that he hasn't briefed the White House on the full Mueller report, that he hasn't handed it over. He -- he said at one point that he didn't believe that he needed to do that at any time.

And so the fact that right at this particular moment, when we know that the full report is likely to come out soon, that he has sort of drawn a line and says, "I'm not going to answer that question anymore," I'm not sure what to make of that, except that perhaps he doesn't want to box himself in by being forced to answer, you know, when he has briefed the White House, you know, at any point between now and when he releases the report.

I think it's to be expected, though, that the Justice Department probably will brief the White House shortly before they release the report publicly. That's kind of what has happened in the past. Just before the summary came out, there was a phone call between someone at the Justice Department and between the president's attorneys, briefing them on the contents of the summary letter.

And so I think maybe Barr is trying to kind of like not have to answer when that does, in fact, happen which I think is likely to happen within the coming days, especially if we think the report is coming within the next week or so.

CAMEROTA: David, what jumped out at you?

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think just that. I mean, I think if the answer was, "No, I haven't briefed anybody," that would be pretty simple to offer.

So I think the -- you know, the attorney general said in other places why he didn't write more, why he didn't summarize more, that he didn't want to be overinclusive or underinclusive.

[07:05:09] In this case, he would much rather put out whatever part of the report he's going to put out with redactions and have everyone analyze and digest and dissect that, rather than answer the question now, "Yes, well, I shared with the White House this, but not that. And it was appropriate. It wasn't inappropriate."

I mean, I don't think he wants to face that scrutiny, which is only inviting more scrutiny. Because he appears, through his answers, to have shared something. It's just not clear why he would avoid all of this now.

But I think what he wants to do is put out the breadth of the report that he will put out, whatever that is, and have everyone take a look at that and take a little bit of the heat off of him in that interaction with the White House.

BERMAN: I don't think it's anything illegal necessarily about briefing the White House on what's inside it. But there are some political issues here, which is No. 1. The White House and his lawyers, including Giuliani, outside lawyers Giuliani and Jay Sekulow, they may now know the full contents of the report. They may be able to fully prepare their responses weeks before Congress gets to see it. So politically, they may have --

CAMEROTA: That's why Congress would have ethical issues with it.

BERMAN: That may have -- so they may have their spin ready on this. And plus, if the White House has been briefed on it and pushed back and said, "Hey, wait a second. We don't want that to be public." Or maybe there's a way to keep.

That's the third issue here, Seung Min, is maybe the White House knows and maybe this gets to the president's mindset the last few days. He's been lashing out at Mueller once again. He's been awfully hot on the immigration issue. You know, maybe this is driving some of the other decisions he's making.

SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Exactly. And there is no doubt that, while there may be nothing technically wrong with sharing some information before the actual release, clearly, there are political issues in just how far this fight between House Democrats and the administration continues over the Mueller investigation.

I think one of the big takeaways from yesterday, as well, is that if a subpoena weren't going to be issued for the report, it's almost certainly definite now.

And I think Mitch McConnell kind of put it concisely yesterday when he said, "You either trust Bill Barr or you don't." And he says he does. But it's clear that House Democrats don't. and that's why they've been trying to get as much information out there to kind of make their case for the -- for the entire Mueller report to be shown.

So there is the issue of Barr not being able to answer, or refusing to answer whether he has talked to the White House about the contents of the report since his letter. There is also him telling lawmakers that he's not willing to go to a judge to allow Congress to see that grand jury information.

So because Congress is not going to have access to this information that they want, it really is going to ramp up the fight over getting that entire report out to the public.

CAMEROTA: And I think some Democrats have said, "I don't know whether we can trust Bill Barr." Given the 19-page memo, unsolicited, that he sent. They're trying to determine if he's impartial.

GREGORY: Right. And that's the issue for Bill Barr, who essentially auditioned for the job, many people feel, by writing that memo saying that he could never -- he, the president could never be charged with obstruction of justice. And he sent that memo -- offered that memo as one of his credentials.

And I think we have to remember this morning the Jim Comey standard. The former FBI director, who was fired by President Trump, because he didn't like how the Russia investigation was going.

But Comey got hit initially in the investigation of the Clinton e- mails for saying at the end of that investigation, "Look, nobody is going to charge her, but she did all these bad things. But nobody would bring a case against her. No prosecutor would charge that."

And when it relates to potential obstruction of justice, here you have the case for and the case against that is apparently in the report by Mueller. And the Justice Department saying, "Well, no, you wouldn't charge this." So now are they going to try to keep that information hidden, when Congress has a specific duty to evaluate whether there was obstruction of justice?

So again, we keep heading toward the same place of tension.

BERMAN: All right. For your viewing pleasure, what was one of the more awkward moments that I have seen in a congressional committee hearing.

This was the House Banking Committee, chaired by Maxine Waters. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin was there testifying, making clear that Treasury and the IRS is not about to hand over the president's taxes, which have been requested by today.

But then at the end of the hearing, there was this back and forth with the chair, Maxine Waters, and Mnuchin about how long it was going on. And I just want to play this for you, because I think it gives you a sense of what we are going to face in this country for the next two years.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEVE MNUCHIN, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: I sat here for over three hours and 15 minutes. I've told you I'll come back. I just don't believe we're sitting here negotiating when I come back. We'll follow up with your office. How long would you like me to come back for next time? I've told you I'll accommodate you.

REP. MAXINE WATERS (D-CA): I appreciate that, and I appreciate your reminding us of the length of time other secretaries have been here. This is a new way, and it's a new day; and it's a new chair.

MNUCHIN: OK, well --

WATERS: I have the gavel at this point. If you wish to leave, you may.

MNUCHIN: Can you clarify that for me?

WATERS: Yes, clarify is this --

MNUCHIN: So -- so I'm dismissed?

WATERS: If you wish to leave, you may.

MNUCHIN: OK, so you're -- we're dismissed, is that correct? WATERS: If you wish to leave, you may leave.

MNUCHIN: I don't understand what you're saying.

WATERS: You're wasting your time. Remember, you have a foreign dignitary in your office.

MNUCHIN: I would just say that the previous administration -- when the Republicans -- they did not treat the secretary of the treasury this way. So if this is the way you want to treat me, then I'll rethink whether I will voluntarily come back here to testify, which I've offered to do.

WATERS: Mr. Secretary, I want you to know that no other secretary has ever told us the day before that they were going to limit their time in the way that you're doing. So if you want to use them as examples, you have acted differently than they have acted. And as I have said, if you wish to leave, you may.

MNUCHIN: If you'd wish to keep me here so that I don't have my important meeting and continue to grill me, then we can do that. I will cancel my meeting, and I will not be back here. I will be very clear, if that's the way you'd like to have this relationship.

WATERS: Thank you. The gentleman, the secretary, has agreed to stay to hear all of the rest of the members. Please cancel your meeting and respect our time.

MNUCHIN: OK, so let's just be clear to the press, I am canceling my foreign meeting.

WATERS: Who's next on the list?

MNUCHIN: You're instructing me to stay here, and I should cancel my foreign --

WATERS: You just made me an offer.

MNUCHIN: No, I didn't make you an offer.

WATERS: You made an offer that I accepted.

MNUCHIN: I did not make you an offer.

WATERS: Well --

MNUCHIN: Just let's be clear. You're instructing me, you are ordering me to stay here.

WATERS: No, I'm not ordering you. I'm responding. I said you may leave any time you want, and you said, "OK, if that's what you want to do, I'll cancel my appointment and I'll stay here." So I'm responding to your request, if that's what you want to do.

MNUCHIN: That's not what I want to do. I told you --

WATERS: What would you like to do?

MNUCHIN: What I've told you is I thought it was respectful that you'd let me leave at 5:15.

WATERS: You are free to leave any time you want.

MNUCHIN: Any time? OK, well, then please --

WATERS: Any time you want.

MNUCHIN: Please dismiss everybody. I believe you're supposed to take the gravel [SIC] and bang it. That's the appropriate --

WATERS: Please don't instruct me as to how I'm to conduct this committee.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: It's a gavel, first of all. Second of all, he didn't want to take "yes" for an answer there when she said, "You can go if you want to."

But that was really fascinating, Abby. And I don't know if it shows us, perhaps, how this administration will respond to this new Democratic oversight, if it's a sign of more things to come.

PHILLIP: It does show you that this is an administration that has, over the last two years, really gone pretty aggressively in the direction of not giving any ground to Congress on anything.

And I think that, especially in this Democratic House, you've seen cabinet secretaries, I think, frankly, be so brash and, in some cases, clearly disrespectful to committee chairs in ways that I have literally never seen in this town in such a blanket fashion.

You know, I'm recalling Mark [SIC] Whitaker when he came to the committee when he was serving as the acting attorney general. And he was telling the chair how to do his job. That is not usually how these things go. But it is a reflection of who they work for.

They are working for a boss that requires them to push back, to not give any ground, and to not sort of give any sense of dignity to a congressional hearing that this administration believes are part of a harassment of this president.

And so you're kind of really -- I think this is really beyond the pale what we just saw there. But I thought it was interesting. Because it seemed that Mnuchin was a little surprised that Maxine Waters took him up on his offer. And he kind of wanted to backtrack, and she wouldn't let him do it. And I think that's why we ended up where we were at the very end, where in frustration he was like, "I think you're supposed to bang the gavel," and she just looked at him like, "I'm the person in charge here."

GREGORY: There was some grandstanding by her, as well, by Congresswoman Waters. PHILLIP: Of course. Of course.

GREGORY: I mean, she -- he was there testifying for several hours.

You know, there's no pure politics here. Democrats are setting the agenda here. They are going to be very tough in their accountability. They're going to try to push hard on this administration back.

And I think what he didn't want was the picture of him getting up and leaving a hearing while it was in the middle of the hearing. That would look bad for him. So, you know, he doesn't have, still, a lot of experience doing this.

And so I think Abby is right. The administration is taking a line, a hard line against what they see coming, which is a lot of oversight and -- and pretty -- pretty tense oversight at that.

[07:15:05] BERMAN: Not until that gravel. Not until you use that gravel.

CAMEROTA: Not until the gravel comes down.

BERMAN: Not until the gravel.

CAMEROTA: All right, David, Abby, Seung Min, thank you very much.

We are following breaking news for you at this hour, because Benjamin Netanyahu is poised to win an historic fifth term as Israel's prime minister. He is calling it a great victory. But his top challenger is also claiming victory at this hour.

CNN's Oren Liebermann is live in Jerusalem with more. What's happening now, Oren?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: With more than 95 percent of the votes counted at this point, according to the results from the Central Elections Committee, it appears that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is emerging with a clear path to victory.

The head to head between him and his rival, former chief of staff, Benny Gantz, remains very close. Perhaps that even remains too close to call with something like a couple of hundred thousand votes to go at this point.

But crucially, the all-important question of who is it that can form a government, who can put together a governing coalition. That advantage very much in Netanyahu's favor. His rival, Gantz, saying the odds are against them at this point.

Netanyahu has said he has already spoken to the other right-wing parties, and they have offered their support for his government. That means he has that clear path to putting together a coalition and, in all likelihood, at this point, it certainly seems like he will win a 5th term in office, and this summer will become Israel's longest- serving prime minister, outlasting, surpassing David Ben Gurion, Israel's first prime minister, a legend in the country. That record, that period would now transfer if Netanyahu secures this victory, to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

You may ask how is it that he was able to secure this with corruption investigations hanging over his head. It seems, based on the results we're seeing, those corruption investigations didn't really affect him at all. He's been working against those for two to three years, trying to delegitimize those.

And let's not forget: This is very much Netanyahu's golden age. He has President Donald Trump in the White House, John. That means that in the last couple of weeks Trump has gifted him major political victories.

Did it secure the victory for him? Well, it looks like it certainly helped.

BERMAN: Oren Lieberman for us in Jerusalem. Oren, thank you very much. Keep us posted.

So she grilled the attorney general at a congressional hearing. What questions does the House Appropriations chair, Nita Lowey, still have? She joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:21:24] BERMAN: Attorney General William Barr grilled by House Democrats over his handling of the special counsel's report. One exchange has raised new questions about what the White House knows about the report.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOWEY: Did the White House see the report before you released your summarizing letter? Has the White House seen it since then? Have they been briefed on the contents beyond what was in your summarizing letter to the Judiciary Committee?

BARR: I've said what I'm going to say about the report today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Joining us now is Democratic Congresswoman Nita Lowey. She is the chair of the House Appropriations Committee.

Chairwoman, thank you very much for being with us this morning. The White House and the Justice Department had said that, prior to the release of the summary, Barr's summary, there had been no contact. But he did refuse to answer your question about whether there's been contact since. Why would that contact, if it happened, be important to you?

LOWEY: It was very clear to me that, as soon as contact with the White House was mentioned, the attorney general shut down, and he was off to the next subject and didn't respond to my questions or any questions from my colleagues that was related.

The key here is what did the White House know and when did they know it? Did the attorney general release that report before discussing it with the White House? I'd like to pursue that another time, or maybe he'll have to pursue that with the Judiciary Committee.

BERMAN: We've been told, again, before the summary, before Barr released the summary, that there had not been a discussion about exactly what was in the report.

But since then -- and that's where Barr seemed to really open the door. Since then, he would not answer about whether they'd have contacts about the content.

Why would it matter to you if they have been talking in the last week? Because that's really what we're talking about here. A week to ten days. Why would it matter if they've been talking in the last ten days about what's in the report?

LOWEY: I think it's absolutely essential if the attorney general feels that he has to clear what he releases publicly with the White House.

Right now, I'm looking forward to seeing the entire report without redactions. The Judiciary Committee with subpoena that report. We must read that report and get to the bottom of it. We have to know the facts. Was the White House involved? Was Mr. Mulvaney involved? Was the president involved? We need to have the facts and, frankly, as the head of the Appropriations Committee, I have to go on with my work and figure out how I spend $1.3 trillion.

So the attorney general is just going to have to deal with the Judiciary Committee, because he would not respond openly and directly to my questions.

BERMAN: He didn't respond to that question, to be sure. Mitch McConnell, Senate majority leader has said of William Barr, "Look, either you trust him or you don't." McConnell says he does trust the attorney general. Do you trust the attorney general?

LOWEY: Trust but verify. The attorney general was appointed by the president. We can read his comments in 2018. I want to see the facts and, frankly, I have a responsibility to read the entire 300- or 400- page report. The sooner it's released in its entirety without redactions, then we move forward.

[06:25:03] BERMAN: But do you think he's somehow massaging it or keeping things out to benefit the president?

LOWEY: If he showed that report to the White House, then it's up to all of us to make a judgment as to whether there was any input, any suggestions, any corrections by the White House.

BERMAN: All right. You have said you support Chairman Jerry Nadler's subpoena, which he will issue after the redacted report is delivered to Congress. By all accounts, you're going to get a redacted report, which means there will be a subpoena. You support that subpoena.

There is a legal question about whether or not they can be compelled to produce the unredacted report. And there are legal scholars who say that your case to get the full report is better if there is a formal impeachment inquiry under way.

If that's the legal requirement, if a judge says that's the legal requirement for Congress to get the unredacted report, would you support a formal impeachment inquiry?

LOWEY: I have made my position clear, as had Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

I'm not looking to an impeachment. I want to see that report. I want to read the report. And then we'll see what actions follow after that. But we must see that report.

I have an obligation. I represent a lot of people, over 700 (ph) people in my district. And I want to know what happened. I want to see the report. I want to know the involvement of the White House. The sooner we do it, the sooner we move on and do our work.

BERMAN: But the issue, again, if there is a legal bar, a judicial bar that the only way Congress would get to see the full report is to have a formal inquiry, I know you don't want to go down the road to impeachment until you learn more, but it may be that you need to be in the formal process of an impeachment inquiry to get the report.

LOWEY: As a member of Congress, as the chair of the Appropriations Committee, I am not an attorney. I am not going to make that judgment.

I want to I can make it clear, I must see the report. My constituents want to know what's in that report. I need to know what the involvement of the White House is and was and will continue to be.

BERMAN: Well, certainly, look, the attorney general can clear that up today. He can tell us yes or no, whether he's been speaking to the White House the last week when he goes to the Senate today. That could be cleared up. That is a question he could answer.

Insofar as the redactions go, do you accept that there could be some redactions? Maybe not as many as William Barr wants but national security issues, ongoing investigations. Would there be any redaction that might be appropriate in your mind?

LOWEY: Let me make this very clear. As a member of Congress, there is a place called a skiff. I read all kinds of classified reports, and I have a responsibility not to discuss any classified material publicly.

I want to see the whole report. I'll go down to that skiff, but I have a responsibility to see the whole report, as do my colleagues.

BERMAN: Chairwoman Nita Lowey, thank you very much for being with us on NEW DAY. Come back soon.

LOWEY: Thank you very much, John. Have a good day.

BERMAN: Alisyn. CAMEROTA: All right. The IRS is facing a deadline today to hand over President Trump's tax returns to Congress. But what if they don't? Up next, a Republican on the committee trying to get their hands on Mr. Trump's taxes.

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