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Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin
Attorney General William Barr Wants Spying Probe; Sudan's President al-Bashir Steps Down Amid Protests; Winter Returns With Vengeance in the Rockies, Plains. Aired 4:30-5a ET
Aired April 11, 2019 - 04:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[04:32:57] WILLIAM BARR, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I think spying did occur. Yes, I think spying did occur.
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CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Attorney General Bill Barr now investigating the FBI saying agents spied on the Trump campaign.
DAVE BRIGGS, CNN ANCHOR: Tens of thousands are marching through the streets of Sudan's capital where activists say the president has been removed from power.
ROMANS: A suspect now in custody in connection with fires at historically black churches in Louisiana.
BRIGGS: Six U.S. states under blizzard warnings as a severe spring storm strikes from the Rockies to the plains and two feet of snow expected to fall in some parts of South Dakota.
Welcome back to EARLY START. I'm Dave Briggs.
ROMANS: I'm Christine Romans. It is 33 minutes now past the hour.
Let's begin here in Washington where Attorney General Bill Barr dropping this bombshell at a Senate hearing yesterday telling lawmakers he thinks the Trump campaign was spied on, and he'll be looking into why.
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BARR: I think spying on a political campaign is a big deal. It's a big deal.
SEN. JEANNE SHAHEEN (D-NH): You're not suggesting, though, that spying occurred?
BARR: I don't -- well, I guess you could -- I think that spying did occur. Yes, I think spying did occur.
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ROMANS: Now Barr provided no evidence for that claim. A source familiar with his thinking later telling us he meant spying in the classic sense of intel collection. The source said Barr now wants to find out whether there was a proper basis for any surveillance.
CNN's Sara Murray has more from Washington.
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Christine and Dave.
Bill Barr, the attorney general, was back in front of lawmakers yesterday with a very surprising claim. He hinted that maybe the FBI and maybe intelligence agencies were spying on the Trump campaign during 2016, but he didn't offer any evidence to back it up. And in fact, later on, he clarified his remarks, saying this.
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BARR: I am not saying that improper surveillance occurred. I'm saying that I am concerned about it and looking into it. That's all.
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[04:35:06] MURRAY: Barr also shared with lawmakers that he is looking into how this initial investigation into the Trump campaign began in 2016. That's certainly something that will be very pleasing to President Trump. What may not be so pleasing, though, Barr also told lawmakers he's not going to look at the Mueller report and sanitize it so there's nothing that makes the president look bad. He said he's only going to do that about private individuals, not people who are holding public office.
And of course he faced plenty of criticism over his summary of the Mueller report, over his decision to clear the president of obstruction of justice. He said that Mueller didn't actually instruct him to do that. He also didn't instruct Barr to leave this up to Congress. And he said he still doesn't know how Special Counsel Robert Mueller feels about his decision to clear the president of wrongdoing when it comes to obstruction of justice.
Back to you, guys.
BRIGGS: OK, thank you, Sara.
Joining us now retired FBI supervisory special agent, James Gagliano, CNN law enforcement analyst.
Good to see you, sir.
JAMES GAGLIANO, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Good morning.
BRIGGS: So the former attorney general is now the current attorney general on his second time around. But this time he's adopting true Trumpian language, saying spying, the new S word. What do you make? What's your reaction of him using that word without evidence? GAGLIANO: I think that's fair. Some people attach with it a
pejorative context. I mean, look, spying is essentially surveillance, and the FBI does it all the time. We do it in the criminal realm, we certainly do it in the counter intelligence realm.
For the attorney general, who I have great respect for, I served under him in the early '90s when he served as the attorney general for Bush 41.
BRIGGS: First time, yes.
GAGLIANO: Yes. Great respect for him. And remember, Dave, in those quainter times, he was approved by the Senate in a unanimous vote.
BRIGGS: Yes. That's right.
GAGLIANO: The Senate cannot even agree on whether Mother's Day is a good thing anymore.
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GAGLIANO: So look, here's the thing, is it best for an attorney general, someone who is the lead at DOJ not to talk about ongoing investigations, yes, the -- the counter to that is he was asked about that. But to put it out there and leave it kind of like a little hanging Chad.
ROMANS: Yes.
GAGLIANO: I can understand why people have some issues about it.
ROMANS: Well, it certainly fuels the president's narrative that there was an illegal witch hunt against him.
BRIGGS: Yes. Sure.
ROMANS: And it fuels his conservative media, you know, echo chamber that all of this was unfair. But listen to what James Clapper said on CNN, he's a national security analyst, obviously, and he said this was very deliberate, the wording that Bill Barr used. Listen.
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JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: The term spying has all kinds of negative connotations and I have to believe he chose that term deliberately.
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ROMANS: What do you make of that?
GAGLIANO: Well, look, I mean, it is congruous of President Trump's initial tweet when he said, you know, early after taking office, wow, I just found out that the Obama administration spied on me. And we have to be careful. Look, there are four investigations now going on into the conduct of the FBI and DOJ. There's four of them, right? There's U.S. attorney in Utah, Michael Hoover. There's the IG.
There's also Congress, the Senate is looking into this, and now the attorney general said he's going to look into this. I maintained from the beginning on this. I was a cautious collusion skeptic but regarding the obstruction of justice piece, whether or not, you know, the president, his campaign was spied upon, the counter intelligence investigation that began, it morphed into this collusion case.
I have been cautious about it, about whether or not the FBI made the right decisions. I don't believe in a deep state. I do not believe in a deep state. But I do believe good and decent people can differ about whether or not there was enough evidence there to open up an investigation. That's a fair discussion. I think those investigations will get to the bottom of it.
BRIGGS: Maybe the left was too loose with the term collusion, maybe the right is too loose with the term spying. And maybe that's what sensible people in the middle can agree on. But here's what Nancy Pelosi says about Bill Barr's performance the last couple of days. Listen.
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REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Let me just say how very, very dismaying and disappointing that the chief law enforcement officer of our country is going off the rails yesterday and today. He is the attorney general of the United States of America, not the attorney general of Donald Trump.
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BRIGGS: Jimmy, do you see an attorney general who's acting as the personal lawyer for the president or for the American people?
GAGLIANO: Look, if we go back and look at history, John F. Kennedy had his brother as the attorney general. Look, I served as a body guard for four attorney generals at different times. From Janet Reno, to Michael Mukasey, John Ashcroft and Alberto Gonzalez. I never once felt that in my dealings with them that there was a political bent in their day-to-day decision making at the head of the Department of Justice.
And let's be honest, Dave, he's a political appointee.
BRIGGS: But do you today?
GAGLIANO: Do I see it that way? I don't, and here's why. What does William Barr have to gain?
[04:40:02] He has a -- he has a good reputation. Everyone believes he's a shrewd legal mind. He served his country honorably, he doesn't need the money. So to make the leap and say he's automatically a supplicant or a sycophant for the president, I don't see it. I'm confused when I hear him used the same language, why is he doing that? The same language the president uses. But I can't believe that he's sold out. ROMANS: There are those who say using that same language means he
can't be an honest broker of the Mueller report. You know. That he just can't -- that's what using the same charged language sounds like to some in the public.
GAGLIANO: That's fair, Christine.
BRIGGS: Jimmy, good to have you here early.
ROMANS: Nice to see you.
GAGLIANO: Thank you, guys.
BRIGGS: Thank you for the Mother's Day reminder as well, my friend.
ROMANS: Yes. Everyone can agree that Mother's Day is good.
GAGLIANO: I'm just saying. Yes.
ROMANS: Yes. Yes.
All right. House Democrats waiting for President Trump's tax returns will have to keep waiting. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin telling Congress last night he would not comply with the deadline to hand over returns. Mnuchin writing to the House Ways and Means Committee to say this, "The legal implications of this request could affect protections for all Americans against politically motivated disclosures of personal tax information regardless of which party is in power." The president himself offering a different but familiar explanation for holding back his returns.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have no obligation to do that while I'm under audit, and no lawyer would tell you to release your tax returns while you're under audit.
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ROMANS: Democrats expecting a drawn-out legal and political showdown. They are basing their request on a law from the 1920s that has never been challenged in court. Ways and Means chairman Richard Neal said he plans to send a follow-up request to the IRS before taking more drastic steps like a subpoena that would inevitably end up in court.
And we should point out that the IRS commissioner Charles Rettig has told reporters that no, in fact, an IRS audit does not preclude you from releasing your tax records.
BRIGGS: This fight is far from over.
All right. Some breaking news this morning, an uprising in Sudan. Thousands of protesters camped outside military headquarters in Khartoum, calling for President Omar al-Bashir to resign. State television and radio declaring, quote, "an important statement is coming soon." Senior international correspondent Nima Elbagir is from Sudan and
joins us live in studio.
You have some breaking news this morning.
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We now have it confirmed that President Omar al-Bashir has stepped down after 30 years in power.
BRIGGS: Wow.
ELBAGIR: We understand from sources in the military command that his entire personal guard has been placed. He's under close watch and under house arrest. And that's pretty extraordinary. One of Africa's longest serving dictators.
ROMANS: Tell us more about him. You grew up under his regime essentially. Personal freedoms, freedom of the press, these are things that don't exist there.
ELBAGIR: He's an indicted war criminal. He's allegedly responsible for crimes against humanity, war crimes, rape as a weapon of war. We were there recently under cover filming an investigation into the use of torture houses to try and cling on to rule.
What's really interesting is that in spite of the fact that in theory he has now gone, but of course the infrastructure of his rule remains, and so do the protesters. They are still on the streets of Khartoum.
BRIGGS: Well, that was my question. Now if the military in fact is taking over, how good of news is that for people? I mean, is this a baby step or could this be the same old policies they have seen?
ELBAGIR: Perhaps just a change is as good as arrest in some sense. But the reality is that many of the names who were associated with those war crimes, including the crimes perpetrated by the Janjaweed and now being spoken about as being part of this transitional council.
ROMANS: We've seen before when young people take to the streets. Arab Spring for example in 2011. What about this moment? What does it say about the majority under the age of 30 in this population and what they expect? I mean, never having really lived under the kinds of -- you said you've never --
ELBAGIR: I've never voted.
ROMANS: Voted in your country.
ELBAGIR: In my own country, no. I have never voted. I was 11 years old when Bashir came into power. I'm 40 now. I carry it with me anytime I come up to a checkpoint or an immigration checkpoint. I really do feel the sense of that fear no matter where I am in the world. And I think if the one thing that happens is that is lifted from these young people who went out onto the streets, then that in and of itself is extraordinary.
BRIGGS: Still on the state sponsor of terrorism list for the United States.
ELBAGIR: Still on the start sponsor.
BRIGGS: How good a news is this for the world?
ROMANS: What happened, yes.
ELBAGIR: Well, it actually is quite concerning for many of the Western powers who've relied on Bashir to do their work for counter terror, reasons to keep watch on ISIS using Khartoum as a port into Africa. This is actually very worrying for American authorities.
BRIGGS: His stepping down.
ELBAGIR: His stepping down.
BRIGGS: Is concerning for U.S. authorities.
ELBAGIR: Democracy will be -- in Sudan will be concerning.
BRIGGS: Wow.
ELBAGIR: For authorities around the world.
ROMANS: Fascinating. When you look at the people in the streets.
BRIGGS: That is (INAUDIBLE).
ROMANS: I mean, the pictures of the people in the streets are just fascinating, and show you the depth of the distaste for this president. What do they want? They want him gone and what next?
ELBAGIR: They want what they see other people have. They want a democracy, and these are kids, as you said, most of the population is under 30 who have never known a democracy.
[04:45:04] And yet they are able to conceptualize it, and in spite of the fact that the president and his people used live ammunition, used torture, used threats of rape against these young people, they still knew enough to know what they wanted and that's extraordinary.
ROMANS: You know, we're still in awe of you because you do such wonderful reporting around the world. But you were there in your own country, your home country, reporting under I guess penalty of death for what you were doing.
ELBAGIR: Yes. Yes.
ROMANS: Tell us about that.
ELBAGIR: Reporting on the demonstration was considered to be sedition. It was considered to be defaming the reputation of the state and that's punishable by death. But of course I got to leave, and I work for CNN, the extraordinary people are the local journalists who worked alongside us because they didn't have the protections that we have. And, you know, and they are still blowing up my phone, telling me what's going on.
ROMANS: Right.
ELBAGIR: I mean, they are -- they're still in such an uncertain situation. We were speaking to people on the phone. We can hear the gunshots ringing out. There are still no certainty back home right now.
BRIGGS: Well, we -- this is an emotional story for you. We understand you're trying to make your way there to cover the story for us.
ELBAGIR: I'm desperate. Desperate.
BRIGGS: Extraordinary breaking news.
ROMANS: A very big story.
BRIGGS: The president stepping down and is under house arrest at the moment.
ROMANS: Nima Elbagir, thank you so much.
ELBAGIR: Thank you.
BRIGGS: All right, winter is refusing to let go in the plains and the Midwest. Over two feet of snow expected in some areas. We're witnessing another rare bomb cyclone. Is it technically? We'll answer that question ahead.
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[04:50:39] ROMANS: A suspect in custody this morning in connection with fires at three historically black churches in Louisiana over a span of 10 days. Two law enforcement officials with direct knowledge of this investigation tell CNN the suspect is a 21-year-old male from St. Landry Parish. CNN has the name of the subject but is not reporting it until it is announced by authorities. We expect to get more information at a press conference scheduled for later this morning.
BRIGGS: Spring in the Midwestern plains has suddenly turned winter white. Blizzard warnings are now up in six states hit hard by a severe storm.
CNN's Scott McLean is in Minneapolis with what many are calling a bomb cyclone.
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Dave, Christine, it has been spring for more than three weeks. But across the plains, winter is coming back for a curtain call or in this case, a bomb cyclone.
Now snow storms are not uncommon in April in the plains but a storm of this storm of this strength certainly is. There are blizzard warnings stretching from Colorado all the way to Minnesota. That means whiteout conditions and winds of 50, even 60 miles per hour which is causing plenty of blowing snow.
Here in Minneapolis, there could be up to a foot of snowfall before this is all over. Though in parts of South Dakota, they are expecting more than two feet. It is coming down so fast and so furious that officials actually temporarily closed the main interstate south of Minneapolis because there were so many crashes and spinouts.
Hundreds of flights have been cancelled because of this storm. Many of them have been in Denver, and of course officials are asking people to stay off the roads if they can until this storm passes, though for most places that won't be until Friday -- Dave, Christine.
BRIGGS: Scott, thank you. Gloves, it's cold out there.
So is this really a bomb cyclone? Maybe not technically, but tell that to people getting hammered in the Rockies and the plains.
Meteorologist Derek Van Dam live in the CNN Center with the latest.
Derek, so it's not technically a bomb cyclone? Who cares, right? Look how big it is.
DEREK VAN DAM, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, I don't think the people in Minneapolis or Denver care what you call it. It's just plain old nasty out there, especially across the plains where up to two feet, even more of snow is expected today. But it's when you add in the winds when things get really bad because they've already gusted over 100 miles per hour, in some locations. In Pueblo, Colorado, for instance, that created a gust-nado yesterday. Kind of a dust storm type tornado that moved through.
Now the snowfall here on top of what's already fallen, we have the potential to see another foot to a foot and a half, especially across South Dakota and southwest sections of Minnesota.
Here's the (INAUDIBLE) of the storm. As it evolves over the next 24 hours, I want you to notice this line of thunderstorms that will develop across Illinois. So keep an eye to the sky if you're located in Chicago, especially later this evening, the potential for severe weather exists and really no rest for the weary, Dave. We've got another storm system developing in the Gulf of Mexico for the rest of the week.
Back to you.
ROMANS: Wow. I got to tell you, all that precipitation, and you look at the Missouri and Mississippi Rivers they are expected to flood all the way into May.
BRIGGS: Yes, that is not cool.
ROMANS: It's either cold or wet or it's windy. Midwest in the spring.
BRIGGS: Thank you, Derek.
ROMANS: Thank you, Derek.
BRIGGS: Great to have you live.
ROMANS: All right. Ditching the cable company just became more expensive for some of you. CNN Business next.
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[04:58:19] ROMANS: Just about that time on a Thursday morning. Let's get a check on CNN Business right now. Global stock markets, they're mixed as leaders of the E.U. agree to extend that Brexit deadline to the end of October.
On Wall Street, watching futures right now down just slightly, hardly at all really. The market closed up a little bit Wednesday. The Dow closed up just six points. The S&P 500, the Nasdaq, both ended slightly higher as well. All of this you can consider flat.
Minutes from last month's Federal Reserve meeting showed the central bank acknowledged the threat of a global growth slowdown and did not anticipate an interest rate hike this year.
Cutting the cable cord is getting more expensive. The price of a YouTube TV subscription has gone up by 10 bucks, to $49.99 a month. YouTube said it was raising those prices to bring customers the best service possible. Providers of live TV bundles have been raising their prices as the services add more channels and the streaming media world is getting crowded. There's Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, all have streaming services. Apple recently announced a move into the space as well. Disney is expected to reveal more details about its upcoming Disney Plus service at an investor event later today.
And the DIY Network is getting a makeover from Chip and Joanna Gaines. You know this couple, right? Made famous for their show "Fixer Upper." They're going to have their own cable TV channel. This is really expected, you know. They announced they were retiring from their "Fixer Upper" show, and everyone knew there was going to be a big future for this two. This new multi medium media platform will be led by the pair.
Discovery said the unnamed network will debut next summer and take over the space currently occupied by the DIY Network. A new subscription streaming service is also in the plan there. And the entire library of "Fixer Upper" will also be featured on that channel.
They have a cult following. They have --
BRIGGS: You can use them around the house, I think.
ROMANS: Yes. Yes.
BRIGGS: Right?
ROMANS: They have a cult following, they have a target line. They're -- I mean, they are really dynamic.
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