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Assange Faces Extradition; Florida Man Tried for Murder 26 Years Later; Lawsuit in Chicago over Police Attacking Student. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired April 12, 2019 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hack Department of Defense computers back in 2010. Correspondent Isa Soares, she has been following this story from London since this news broke. She's outside the Ecuadorian embassy, no longer Julian Assange's home.

The next step, because he's in trouble in effected on a number of legal fronts.

ISA SOARES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Very much so.

Good morning to you, Jim.

Julian Assange has gone from being confined in one space here at the Ecuadorian embassy behind me, to being confined in another space, waiting in a prison, in a cell jail, really waiting to hear the extradition trial, to hear that his fate really. And that's happening in three weeks from now on May the 2nd.

In terms of what we can see, what we know, the prosecutors have a period of 65 days in order to present authorities here of all the information, all the paperwork. Then, of course, is the day of the hearing. Judges will be looking at all aspects of this.

As you and I were discussing yesterday as this was all unfolding, Jim, this is both a political and a legal process. One lawyer -- extradition lawyer basically telling me they will be looking at whether there is -- this is a political act, whether this -- there are reasonable grounds of guilt in this before reaching a decision.

If they do reach a decision and they do say that he can be extradited, the home office can then basically judge whether to actually extradite him or not. This is what happened with another case, with Augusto Pinochet, the government here decided yes to extradite him to Spain. Then Jack Straw, in charge of the home office, said no he shouldn't be extradited because of health reasons.

We have heard from the lawyers for Julian Assange, basically say they will fight every aspect of this. We also have heard in the last 24 hours from the editor of WikiLeaks saying this is politically motivated, also saying this is a persecution.

The other charge you were talking about, or potential charge, a legal battle, potential legal battle, is that coming from Sweden, the alleged -- the woman who's alleged raped -- who accused him of raping her back in 2010. Basically he's discussing looking at the options, her and her lawyer, of asking prosecutors to open that. And if they do open that, that will be another legal headache for Julian Assange.

So a lot here for him to take on, but it seems the wheels are in motion, at least in Sweden, while he waits for the extradition hearing in May.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: Just quickly, he was there for seven years, beyond the legal issue, and certainly diplomatic pressure that Ecuador was getting.

SOARES: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Julian Assange was not apparently an ideal guest in the Ecuadorian embassy.

SOARES: No. And I think, according to what we're hearing from the Ecuadorians, I think, to be really honest, they're probably breathing a sigh of relief, not only that they're cost the Ecuadorian government around $6 million for looking after him in food and cleaning and other elements of his stay, in security, but that they've described him as being discourteous, being aggressive, but also meddling in the affairs of other -- internal affairs of other countries, including that of Ecuador.

Lots of descriptions of the fact that he was unhygienic, feces all over the wall, but also that he was aggressive to the guests, to the people who worked inside on what -- on what he's saying he access the Ecuadorian government of really being agents of the U.S.

And briefly, I just want to tell you, that this week, in fact, on Tuesday, WikiLeaks accused Ecuador government of spying on Assange. So a lot of back and forth, a lot of claim and counterclaim.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: Isa Soares, thanks very much.

For more on what this all means, let's bring in CNN senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh, who covered the story for some time.

And the essential argument here -- and this is not just Assange's lawyers making this argument, you hear it from the ACLU, you hear it from press organizations, that this is dangerous because he was getting information out there. But the Department of Justice's argument is that he didn't just receive, he helped Chelsea Manning hack. Explaining that difference.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And it's sort of the whistleblower defense, the freedom of speech defense that his lawyers and those advocates for what he did and for that general idea are making. The problem I think here is when you look at the DOJ indictment, it essentially says that Assange contacted Chelsea Manning and they agreed that he would use his technical expertise to enable her to hack better a password that would let her pretend to be an administrator of these complex systems.

SCIUTTO: So giving a tool, in effect, and this is the legal argument from the U.S., to help steal that information, is that right?

WALSH: You could say essentially he was the safe cracker and she needed to get into the safe to get the stuff out.

Now, the question you end up asking is how -- has law enforcement here found a way to malign an activity that was essentially good natured whistleblowing about malfeasance done in two very important wars the U.S. fought some say to not great success, or was this really about somebody knowing he crossed the line to make sure an activity had occurred in order to get ahold of this information?

[09:35:09] You and I both in our work, Jim, have known there are certain things -- oh, you really wish you could do that. Well, you wish you could read somebody's e-mails to work out what they're really thinking. You can't do that because it's illegal. And so the debate here will certainly be in the U.K. as to whether or not, for example, this is about a broader U.S. conspiracy to punish those that have embarrassed them politically, or whether there really is an element of law here and whether, in fact, this will increase the sense by journalists and those working to assist them that they can't go about exposing wrongs.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this because there's always the story behind the story. There was a lot of pressure being put on Ecuador through the years to stop giving Assange this refuge, in effect, from the U.S.

Can we read into this that even the Trump administration -- we remember President Trump said during the campaign, I love WikiLeaks, et cetera, he's backed off from those comments now, but -- but that part of the story here is the U.S. was saying, listen, Ecuador, you've got to let him out, we want our time with him?

WALSH: Possibly. And we don't know the entirety of that. We know that back in December 2017, even after the new president had taken office they gave him citizenship -- Assange Ecuadorian citizenship.

SCIUTTO: Right.

WALSH: So it didn't suddenly date from a new president.

We know that their relationship had gone incredibly fraught in the last month. You heard Isa says what it was like living with him there, the ultimate nightmare houseguest it seemed on some occasions. Although, I can imagine you and I cooped up in a place like that, we'd go a bit --

SCIUTTO: A form of -- I don't know, prisoner, certainly confinement.

WALSH: Confinement -- confinement to some degree. So, you know, that relationship obviously broke down. Last week there was that extensive press conference where he alleged all these different parts of surveillance against him. We also have an associate, a close associate, who's been arrested in Ecuador recently, linked to Mr. Assange. He's been a resident in that country for a number of years. There's clearly a back story here, but I think the key thing that U.K. judges will have to decide upon, which is really what this comes down to, there's a lot of political decisions, it's about the U.K. court system, you and I both know how around the world people often look to that as a source of independence and they spend millions trying to exploit it.

SCIUTTO: Right.

WALSH: This will be where the decision is finally made. And this back story may begin to pale away.

SCIUTTO: Very quickly, the other legal issue is that there's a woman -- there's actually two women in Sweden who have alleged sexual assault dating back a number of years. That charge sort of fell by the wayside, you know, but it's possible that as soon as today it could be brought up again.

WALSH: It is possible. As far as I understand, unless the U.S. permit it, the U.S. extradition request takes precedence because it was lodged first, the U.S. may prefer that case to be heard first. I somewhat doubt it. But we have to wait and see for that to be brought back into play again. For now it's being shelved, not because necessarily they thought the entire thing was a waste of time, but perhaps they thought the idea of bringing him to a court wasn't really going to happen any time soon.

SCIUTTO: We'll be watching. Nick Paton Walsh, thanks very much.

Well, coming up in the next hour, I'm going to speak to the attorney for Julian Assange. Certainly an opportunity to get at these questions and how they plan to defend against, fight, Poppy, extradition to the U.S.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. That will be fascinating. Of course, we heard from her, you know, in the press conference yesterday, but you'll get this chance, one-on-one, to be with her. Look forward to that.

Meantime, back here in the United States, 26 years ago a young boy told authorities, quote, daddy hurt mommy. Well, soon, jurors will decide the fate of that man accused of murdering his wife. We're on that story ahead.

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[09:42:35] HARLOW: All right, former President Obama, celebrities and thousands of people paid their respects to Grammy nominated rapper Nipsey Hussle in Los Angeles. Stevie Wonder performed, Snoop Dogg spoke at the memorial service yesterday. Nipsey Hussle, of course, was shot and killed outside his clothing store last month. In a letter read during the memorial service, former President Obama thanked him for uplifting his hometown, his community and south central Los Angeles.

After the memorial, hundreds of people lined the 25 mile-long -- look at that -- 25 mile-long procession. Many walked alongside Hustle's silver hearse tossing roses and taking pictures. What a sight.

All right, today a jury in Florida could bring to an end the 26-year- old murder mystery. Right now closing arguments are underway in the case against Michael Haim. He is accused of killing his wife in 1993. And at the time the only evidence against him were words by his three- year-old son. Those words, quote, daddy hurt mommy. That was until 2014 when Haim's now adult son discovered human remains in the backyard of his childhood home.

Our Martin Savidge is outside the courtroom in Jacksonville, Florida, where this trial is taking place.

Wow.

Walk us through this, Marty.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it is quite an amazing story.

Good morning to you, Poppy.

Closing arguments are underway, as you point out, in the Michael Haim trial here. And, remember, his wife had gone missing for more than two decades until her son made an incredible discovery.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE (voice over): By her family's own words, 23-year-old Bonnie Haim was a loving mother, daughter and sister who, in January of 1993, suddenly vanished, leaving behind her three-year-old son, Aaron.

Bonnie's husband, Michael Haim, has always maintained his wife walked out on him following an argument.

MICHAEL HAIM, FATHER: Actually, she just wasn't happy and she wanted to leave. And I couldn't stop her from leaving.

SAVIDGE: Bonnie Haim was never seen again.

Her disappearance profiled in a 1994 episode of "Unsolved Mysteries." The program focused on a startling revelation, a very young Aaron made to Florida's child protective services, saying, daddy hurt her.

DET. ROBERT HINSON, JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA SHERIFF'S OFFICE: From what Aaron told us that day, my only conclusion was that there had been a domestic fight and that Michael Haim killed his wife and had removed her and that their three and a half-year-old son, Aaron Haim, had witnessed this.

[09:45:13] SAVIDGE: But with limited evidence and no body, there was little police could do. Aaron was adopted and his mother's case went cold for decades. Then, in 2014, police were called to the former Haim family home, finding the once little boy of 21 years ago now grown up and going by his adopted name Aaron Fraser.

Aaron had recently acquired the home and was renovating it, digging up the pool, when he discovered some plastic sheeting with what he thought was a coconut wrapped inside, recalling the moment from the witness stand.

AARON FRASER, BONNIE HAIM'S SON: I picked up the coconut object and it ended up being the top portion of her skull.

SAVIDGE: Tests would confirm Aaron had found the remains of his own mother.

Prosecutors say authorities also recovered a 22 caliber shell casing. Now, 52-year-old Michael Haim is on trial for murder. His attorney still maintaining he had nothing to do with Bonnie's death.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In this case, a lot of evidence is just as important, if not more important than the evidence you will hear.

SAVIDGE: Just before the trial began, Bonnie Haim's sister posted online what it means for her family. It's going to rip off bandages and expose us to things we'd long ago pushed to the back of our memories, but sometimes we have to rip off bandages to really begin to heal.

For Aaron Fraser, the trial is his chance to finish the story he first told when he was just three, the remarkable truth of how he lost and eventually found his mother.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE: This story has had many surprising turns to it, including late yesterday afternoon when it looked like testimony had come to an end and the judge turned to Michael Haim and asked, do you want to take the witness stand? And he said, yes, which clearly was a surprise to the prosecution and it appeared even to his own defense team. He was on the stand for two hours, took questions from both the prosecutor and his defense attorney. The prosecutor really went after him very aggressively, but despite that Michael Haim never seemed to raise his voice, never lost his composure. And when he was asked, did he hurt his wife, he said, absolutely not. He loved his wife. And that he would never have hurt his wife.

It's expected that this could go to the jury later this afternoon, Poppy.

HARLOW: Wow, what a turn.

Marty Savidge, important reporting, thank you for being there.

Wow. All right, we'll keep you posted on that.

Meantime, disturbing new surveillance video and what appears to show two police officers dragging a 16-year-old student down the stairs, shocking her with a stun gun and punching her. This is in Chicago. Now her family is suing.

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[09:52:30] HARLOW: All right, disturbing new video. Take a look at this. This shows a violent encounter between police officers and a 16- year-old high school student in Chicago. In this video, it seems like you're seeing the officers here punching the student, dragging her down the stairs, and eventually tasing her. The girl's family is now suing and they say her civil rights were violate.

My colleague Ryan Young is with us from Chicago.

This is all on camera. How did this start? And is the police department giving any explanation?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it is tough to watch. And if it wasn't for this new surveillance video, this 16-year-old could be facing multiple charges. But let's take a look at the video from back in January. In the video you don't see anything that starts the incident, but you can see one Chicago police officer grabbing, pushing, and dragging a student down a set of stairs before the second officer joins in.

Look, this incident happened at Marshall High School on the west side of Chicago. And in the video you can see officers punch her and shock the teenager with a stun gun multiple times. Now, according to a lawsuit filed against the officers and the Chicago Board of Education, the officers held the student down while stepping on her chest and did not seek help from her father and other school personnel who were standing nearby. In fact, listen to her father talk about the situation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And believe I seen, you know, two sworn police officers of Chicago abusing my daughter like this. And I'm standing right there watching them do this and can't do anything about it. I thought that maybe they were going to try to choke her out or maybe she'd lose consciousness or something like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: Yes, Poppy, as you can imagine, it's an open investigation. And Chicago police say they cannot comment on this incident while it's being reviewed. But it holds officers to the highest level of professional standards.

Now, the Chicago school district says it is, quote, committed to creating a safe and supportive learning environment for all students and we are deeply disturbed and troubled by this incident which has no place in our schools.

Now, we are told that both officers have been removed from the school for right now as this investigation continues. But, obviously, lots of questions because of that video that clearly points out something happened there, and there has to be some sort of explanation for why it went so far, especially with so many people just standing around.

Poppy.

HARLOW: But we don't know because, as you say, we can't see that on the video. And it sounds like the police department isn't saying. Even if these officers have said x, y, and z led to this, the police department's not saying that, right?

YOUNG: Right. And, you know, Poppy, the other part of this is, the officers might have been wearing body cameras. So there might be audio as well in this.

HARLOW: Wow.

YOUNG: But the dragging down the stairs, a lot of questions about the multiple tasing, whether or not they followed police procedure. It was something that the investigation will have to bear out.

[09:55:04] HARLOW: Ryan Young, appreciate the reporting. Thank you so much.

Staying in Chicago for a moment because the city is now suing actor Jussie Smollett after he refuses to pay for the cost of that investigation into that hate crime he reported, which officials say was all just a big hoax. The lawsuit on Smollett calls on him to reimburse Chicago, the whole city, $130,000. In January, he told police two men attacked him, yelled racist and homophobic slurs at him during the assault. Police ultimately say Smollett staged the attack to help his career. He denies that. Even though he was charged with a felony and disorderly conduct, all 16 counts were dropped last month with no explanation as to why.

Ahead for us, new signs the Trump administration tried to use the migrant situation at the southern border to retaliate against Democrats. Details ahead.

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