Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Report Indicates Trump Administration Considered Sending Detained Immigrants to Sanctuary Cities; Mayor Pete Buttigieg Rises in Some Presidential Candidate Polls as He Continues Criticism of Vice President Mike Pence. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired April 12, 2019 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:03] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They leaned on ICE to consider moving undocumented immigrants to sanctuary cities.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't believe we should be releasing anyone who crosses the border illegally.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are human beings. To treat them like a plague is grotesque.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What he said was true, there was spying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The attorney general testified to an audience of one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was most certainly surveillance. That should be open to examination.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Federal prosecutors announce 36 counts against attorney Michael Avenatti.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Avenatti received money on behalf of clients, misappropriated the money, and lied to the clients.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With all of these charges that he faces up to 335 years in prison.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota on John Berman.

Good morning everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Friday, April 12th, 8:00 now in the east.

CNN has learned that the White House was considering an extreme idea to deal with detained migrants at the U.S./Mexico border. A source says that President Trump personally pushed his ousted Homeland Security secretary to release undocumented migrants into so-called sanctuary cities as retaliation against his political foes. That source tells CNN that Kirstjen Nielsen resisted that plan. JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Also just in, it's Friday. We are, in fact,

getting official word that it is Friday, which means that there could be a Friday news dump. And there's no bigger news in the world right now possible than the release of the Mueller report. It could come as soon as today. This would be the early end of the timeframe provided by the Attorney General William Barr, so we are waiting on that.

Also new this morning, major movement in the Democratic race for president. One candidate is climbing in the polls, really from nowhere. What is driving the rise of Mayor Pete Buttigieg?

CAMEROTA: OK. Let's bring in our experts to discuss all of this. We have Carrie Cordero, former counsel to the U.S. assistant attorney general, CNN political analyst David Gregory, and Seung Min Kim, White House reporter for "The Washington Post."

So let's begin with "The Washington Post" reporting. It says here, this is about the sanctuary cities, that the president came up with an idea, possibly Stephen Miller was one of the architects of this, that, well, we have this problem on the border with people showing up. Let's bus them to sanctuary cities and release them on the streets of places of the president's political foes such as, we'll start with Nancy Pelosi. This wasn't just something that they talked about in sort of the dark of night when people were tired. This was -- they were trying to figure out at least twice, and there are emails to prove this, how to turn this into policy.

Here is the "Washington Post" excerpt. "White House officials first broached the plan in a November 16th email asking officials at several agencies whether members of the caravan could be arrested at the border and then bused to small and mid-sized sanctuary cities. The White House told U.S. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement that the plan was intended to alleviate a shortage of detention space, but also serve to send a message to Democrats." Seung Min, this is the policy by retribution instead of long-term solution.

SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Certainly this is a jaw dropping report from my colleagues at the "Washington Post," and, yes, this is a plan that was considered twice, first of all, back in November, around the time in November when the president was furious about this -- the caravan of migrants coming towards the U.S./Mexico border, and also when there was a standoff over the wall funding and a shutdown earlier this year.

And while the details here are certainly stunning, we've seen this White House, we've seen this president time and time again push boundaries to try to control or do something about the immigration problem -- the immigration issue, which has been such a fixture of the president and such a key point. And since beginning back to his campaign, obviously just a couple weeks ago the president was considering shutting down the entire border because of the increased numbers of migration at the U.S./Mexico border. Also he has declared a national emergency at the border over the same issue.

But this is a new level of what the White House was considering doing, which the White House has confirmed to the "Washington Post" that this was in consideration at least for a little bit of what they were going to do with the immigration issue.

BERMAN: What the whistleblowers told your paper, Seung Min, which is so interesting, is that the reason behind it, or one of the reasons behind it, was to retaliate against the president's political adversaries. That's directly from the lead of the piece. So Carrie Cordero, counselor, imagine you are in the Department of Homeland security, or imagine you are in the White House counsel's office and you hear this idea floated by the likes of Stephen Miller or others, what's your reaction as a lawyer?

CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: This is exactly the position that the lawyers who have chosen to serve in this administration have to deal with, which is how much of these policy ideas are they willing to sign on to and what are they willing to put a stop to.

[08:05:04] What is proposed by the White House in this example is the very definition of using law enforcement abusively, what they tried to do, use law enforcement abusively for political retribution. And so the lawyers -- it's the lawyers' job to stop it.

Now, my understanding is that the DHS general counsel is now one of the individuals on the chopping block from the White House's perspective because he is one of the people who put a stop to this particular plan. And he is a Senate-confirmed individual. So I'll be watching to see whether or not the individuals in the White House who want this type of crazy, unlawful, abusive activity to take place are successful in removing him the way that they've been successful in removing other individuals in the department.

CAMEROTA: David, I think this one is so fascinating to analyze. This idea from President Trump is, I think, particularly fascinating because it is classic. It is -- I think it shows that all of us, of course, I think, try to work to beat down our vindictive impulses. We all have them, and we work to not indulge our vindictive impulses, but President Trump often uses them to attempt to create policy, and this one is that combination of immediate solution to him, let's bus them to San Francisco and somehow retaliate against Nancy Pelosi who he is mad at.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. But, of course, it's not a real solution. It is pure impulsiveness because there's all kinds of logistical difficulties, there's liability, it would be a horrible story because of how cruel and vindictive it is, how cynical it is. And what is the end goal? If you really were playing this out, because what he said before about so many of these migrants is that they're dangerous. So they're going to flood the streets of San Francisco and there's going to be a huge crimewave, is that how he's thinking about all this? And Nancy Pelosi is somehow going to lead the charge to send them back to where they came from?

It doesn't make sense, and that was what the initial response was from those in these agencies who are responsible for dealing with the border. You can't do this for a variety of reasons. So those guardrails of our government were in place, were working. And, yes, now there have been changes at DHS, but the reality is that the president tells us what he thinks. And what he thinks is that this is an issue that he's going to use to try to get reelected on. It's an issue that he has tried to use in 2018 without much success. It is cynical, it's crude the way he speaks about immigrants and raises the specter of the danger of immigrants, spending no time talking about the desperate circumstances that would compel them to keep trying to do something that is so difficult, especially given the situation on the border.

And lastly, where is Congress? I mean, whatever you think about Trump and how he has approached this, he has kept this issue on the front burner. Congress has got to deal with immigration, because we do have real problems on the border that the president is highlighting in his own unique way.

BERMAN: Carrie, just one more point on the guardrails here, again, as someone who has served in government before, if the guardrails are people within the administration, at DHS and other places, and also to an extent the judiciary, what happens to those guardrails over time as the president -- as is his right to do -- fills his administration with more people who may be of like mind to him and fills the judiciary with judges that he picks and fills these vacancies. Will those guardrails -- do you feel confident those guardrails will be there a year from now?

CORDERO: Here's what I think has happened. The president throughout the campaign, he said that he wanted to lay on law enforcement, and what he was looking at was whether or not he was going to be able to use the Justice Department and the FBI to be able to do political retribution. What he did is that institution has such a strong core and traditions and rule of law culture that what he ended up doing is he pivoted to DHS, and pivoted to the department because it's not headed by the attorney general, it doesn't have all of the same guidelines and rules and processes and procedures, and he had more of a workforce and union base that was sympathetic to his political border policies.

And so what we're seeing is that with respect to his appointees, the Senate has confirmed many of them. Look at the cabinet officials who have had to leave this administration, Secretary of State Tillerson, Mattis, now we have lost two secretaries of Homeland Security, and we lost Attorney General Sessions. They have all had to leave after being confirmed by the Senate because at some point his policy objectives are simply irrational and legitimate people can't go along with them.

And so whether or not he continues to be able to fire people without Congress asserting itself and recognizing that it can't just keep confirming new people that he tosses up who are going to implement these new policies.

[08:10:03] CAMEROTA: Seung Min, let's move to the Democratic news on the Democratic side. Pete Buttigieg, who is not officially in the race yet but will be we think Sunday.

BERMAN: Sunday.

CAMEROTA: He is enjoying a surge at the moment in the polls. He has somehow leapfrogged some other better-known candidates to be number three in Iowa and New Hampshire, which is notable. So, what do you think is behind that surge?

KIM: Well, I think it really certainly does help that he is a fresh face in the Democratic field, clearly the self-described millennial candidate for president, because we've seen how, particularly if you go back to the 2018 midterms, the surge of support among the Democratic base really gravitated towards these names that we hadn't seen before that hadn't been around the block before. Obviously even though Beto O'Rourke was a House member for about six years, he did have this new attraction of Democratic voters when he ran against Ted Cruz in Texas.

And Andrew Gillum and Stacey Abrams are also new names to the national scene that got a lot of grassroots support not only in their respective states even though they lost, but really attracted the attention of Democrats from across the country.

So I think Pete Buttigieg is benefitting a little bit interest that, even though -- so I wonder what that energy, what that means if and when the former vice president Joe Biden does formally get into the race. Obviously, the former vice president does lead in a lot of the state and national polling right now. A lot of that is probably due to name recognition, but, at the same time, you know, we've seen this need, this energy, this desire for new names, fresh faces, and it will be really interesting to see how all that shakes out.

GREGORY: What's interesting about this period of time is that all you really have is money and buzz and media, right? So if you can raise money, if you can create some buzz, if you can get media attention, and then if that can proliferate and go viral and course through social media, you've got something.

What is interesting to me about Buttigieg is just listen to him. He's compelling. He's really smart. He's got a really interesting story. I think he has perhaps the best generational argument that I've heard among Democrats about why someone his age and with relative lack of experience should have a shot at this office. I think that's what's resonating.

When I talk to young people who say, hey, what do you think of Mayor Pete? They're saying, look, to have somebody who is closer to my age who is laying out the stakes for my generation really matters. There is a long way to go because the constituency is large in the Democratic Party, but I think just a lot of credit to him doing it kind of the old-fashioned way, which is people are listening, they're looking, they like what they hear.

BERMAN: He's also picking fights, at least as far as the Democratic Party is concerned, with the right people, because he is in a back and forth with the vice president of the United States at this moment, Mike Pence. Pete Buttigieg is married and he's gay. He's married to a man. Mike Pence is against, or has been against gay marriage. And of course Pence was governor of Indiana during the time that Pete Buttigieg was elected mayor of South Bend. Dana Bash talked to Mike Pence yesterday at the border, and talked about this back and forth. Buttigieg has basically said my faith is what drives me to feel like I do, and Pence says otherwise. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: I hope that Pete will offer more to the American people than attacks on my Christian faith or attacks on the president as he seeks the highest office in the land.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST, "THE FIVE": Right. Well, he argues that your quarrel is with him as a gay man and that he says I was born this way and this is the way God made me. That's just not your belief?

PENCE: Well, I think Pete's quarrels is with the First Amendment.

BASH: How so?

PENCE: All of us in this country have the right to our religious beliefs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: And, again, that was yesterday at the border. Pete Buttigieg is going to be on "Ellen" today. Let me play you what he told Ellen that we're going to see later on today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE BUTTIGIEG, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not interested in feuding with the vice president, but if he wanted to clear this up, he could come out today and say he's changed his mind, that it shouldn't be legal to discriminate against anybody in this country for who they are. That's all.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: You know what's interesting here is that this isn't just a discussion about gay marriage, David Gregory, this is a discussion that both men are having about faith. Pete Buttigieg is making the argument that his faith is the basis for his marriage.

GREGORY: Right, exactly. And I don't think Mike Pence wants this fight. I don't think conservative Republican politicians should want this fight. I think they are losing on this, because even in evangelical churches where they have gay people who are there, they have people who might be evangelical Christians who are experiencing this in their families where they have someone who is gay or lesbian in their family, they're going to make some kind of ideological argent about their faith that they think somehow.

[08:15:00]

DAVID GREGORY, AUTHOR, HOW'S YOUR FAITH: I think it's a - it's - it's bad religion for one thing, and I think it's going to be bad politics for republicans if they go down this road. And I think Buttigieg, however, has something to be careful about here, too. Certainly the fact that he's gay and it will take on Pence will be important to some voters, but it's really the absence of that identity that has driven, I think, a lot of his candidacy. He's not talking about that all of the time. He's talking about other things, and I think that'll be powerful within the democratic caucus as well.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, NEW DAY HOST: All right, Carrie, Seung Min, David, thank you very much. Happy weekend, and it is Friday.

JOHN BERMAN, NEW DAY HOST: Breaking news.

CAMEROTA: Breaking news that it's Friday. Will we have other breaking news? Will the attorney general release his version of the Mueller report today? That happens sometimes on Fridays.

BERMAN: I'm told.

CAMEROTA: We talk to our top democrat what she wants to see in the redacted report next.

(COMMERICAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: While you were sleeping, CNN has learned that President Trump personally pushed his now (inaudible) Homeland Security Secretary to release undocumented migrants on to the streets of so called sanctuary cities.

Joining us now is Democratic Congresswoman Katherine Clark. She is the vice chair of the House democratic caucus. And one of those so called sanctuary cities is in your district. Congresswoman, thank you very much for being here.

REP. KATHERINE CLARK (D-MA): Oh, thank you Alisyn. Good to be with you.

[08:20:00]

CAMEROTA: Let me read you a portion of what The Washington Post is reporting. CNN has some of its own original reporting on this as well.

White House officials first approached this plan in a November 16th e- mail asking officials at several agencies whether members of the caravan could be arrested at the border and then bused to small and midsized sanctuary cities.

The White House told ICE that the plan was intended to alleviate a shortage of detention space but also served to send a message to democrats. So, congresswoman I believe that Cambridge, Massachusetts is one f the so called sanctuary cities in your district. What is your response to that plan?

CLARK: Well, just when you think Donald Trump's immigration policies couldn't get more outrageous, he outdoes himself. This is using people who are coming to this country seeking refuge, seeking asylum with some crazy plan to try and put them in to sanctuary cities. Donald Trump needs to focus on the humanitarian crisis that he has caused on our border. And to use the money that congress has appropriated to increase the number of judges to protect our ports to be able to put the programs back in that can help reduce the detention center beds and actually process and make sure these asylum claims are valid.

And if they are, that people are allowed in to the United States. Seeking refuge here is not illegal immigration. And it is long passed time the Trump administration understand that.

CAMEROTA: But you know -- I mean it's not just President Trump. You know that so many of the people who voted for him are frustrated by the idea of sanctuary cities. They don't like the idea that these particular cities, San Francisco, Cambridge, Massachusetts won't help ICE officials deport people once they re found there.

And so, I just want you to speak to that, that I think that the president is tapping in to a feeling. And look, this is how he started his presidential campaign in 2016 by saying Mexico is sending its rapists, et cetera, et cetera.

You now that his supporters chant built the wall. And so, what do you say to people who say if the sanguinary cities won't detain and deport people, let them deal with this problem.

CLARK: Sanctuary cities are directly correlated to a lack of comprehensive immigration reform. Nobody on either side of the aisle of any political ideology will tell you that our immigration system is working well. But that proposal that was passed over five years ago in a bipartisan way in the senate still languishes.

And what we've seen is a president that as you just said from his very first moments of announcing his candidacy has gone to fear, division, racism and call that up in the American people. It is time that he be the leader that we need.

And say let's look at our system, let's see how we can protect our national security and heave an immigrations system that makes sense and that allows people to immigrate in to this country to fill some of the needs we have for workers and that is really in line with our heritage and values as Americans.

That we embrace immigrants and that we replenish ourselves with immigrants and what they bring to us. But this president is committed to doing the opposite. And you can see it from the absolute chaos that he has created in the Department of Homeland Security. That's a reflection of the chaos on the border--

CAMEROTA: I mean, you know that he says its congress's responsibility that you guys are dropping the ball and fixing this.

CLARK: When the only proposal coming out of this White House is to cage children and build a wall, there is no working with that. We need to go back and look at the money we have already appropriated for humanitarian aide to try and address the problem that we have at the border.

And instead this presidency and his administration is saying we're not interested in real solutions. What we're interested in is continuing to demonize migrants, continuing to demonize children and families. And instead of putting in protections, use these families as a political bulging (ph). It's frankly against American values.

CAMEROTA: Congresswoman, I do want to ask you because I know that you're looking forward to talking about that it's 100 -- today market the 100 days of the democrats taking back the House.

And I just want to ask you about there's a lot -- there's so much attention paid to the new freshmen class and the progressives in particular in that new freshman class and some of their provocative statements. And are you frustrated that that sometime eclipses in a work or policy that you're all accomplishing?

[08:25:00]

CLARK: We have got our eye on what the American people send us here to do. And that is to make sure we protect our healthcare ad expand quality care that is affordable to every American. That we rebuild and reinvest in our infrastructure and that we clean up our politics, get dark money out, protect that right to vote.

Those are the issues that we are not only working on but passing. We have HR1 waiting at the door of the senate for Mitch McConnell to say yes, we want to protect that right to vote. We've already passed the paycheck fairness act saying the women in this country when you do equal work; you're going to be paid equally.

That is $900 billion if we pay women equally back in to our economy. We've already passed common sense gun violence prevention that is supported by close to 97 percent of Americans across political ideologies.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CLARK: This is the work that we are doing. This is why we are proud to celebrate our accomplishments of the first 100 days and looking forward to the next 100.

CAMEROTA: Congresswoman Katherine Clark, thank you for dealing with all these topics this morning with us, nice to see you.

BERMAN: All right--

CLARK: Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: John.

BERMAN: A source tells CNN that Actress Lori Loughlin is not ready to make a plea deal in the college admission scandal. So what happens if she lets this case play out\? Our legal expert discuss next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) END