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New Day
Avenatti Faces Embezzlement and Fraud Charges; Chicago Student Dragged and Tased by Police; Kraft's Lawyers Fight Video Release; Effectiveness of Acupuncture on Stress. Aired 8:30-9a ET
Aired April 12, 2019 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[08:30:50] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Michael Avenatti, the former lawyer for Stormy Daniels, was indicted on 36 counts, including embezzlement and fraud. He's charged with stealing millions of dollars from his clients.
Joining me now to discuss this, CNN legal analyst Paul Callan and Joey Jackson.
It's always a pleasure to have you guys here.
Let me read you the list of things that Avenatti faces right now. Thirty-six counts including wire fraud, bank fraud, bankruptcy fraud, tax fraud, counts tied to money embezzlement scheme against five clients, one of the clients is a paraplegic, allegedly used client settlements to fund business ventures and personal lifestyle, could face a maximum prison sentence of 335 years.
Paul, these are serious charges, particularly serious against a lawyer.
PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Oh, they're -- they're the most serious charges against a lawyer I have seen, I think, ever. Maybe with the exception of a lawyer who kills somebody. But in terms of financial crimes, holy mackerel, this is stealing from his clients, it's considered to be the most despicable crime a lawyer can commit. He'll face possible disbarment and possibly spending many, many years in federal prison if these charges are true.
BERMAN: Just, very quickly, when a settlement is made, it usually gets paid into a trust? How does that work?
CALLAN: Yes, when a settlement is made in a civil case, it goes into an attorney escrow account. It's a trust account where the attorney is supposed to leave the money and then disburse it to the client when all the proceeds have been collected. So to steal from a client's trust account is really the worst kind of offense that can be committed by an attorney. And attorneys are routinely disbarred for that conduct.
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. Yes.
BERMAN: Go ahead.
JACKSON: You want the good news or the bad news.
BERMAN: Both.
JACKSON: OK.
So the good news is, is that an indictment company line is an accusation. And as an accusation, you have 23 members of the grand jury, they are not there to determine proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, they're there to determine two things, John. One, is there reasonable cause to believe that a crime was committed, and, b, did Michael Avenatti commit it? Thereafter, you need, you know, a majority of the 23, 12, to vote an indictment. That's the good news.
The bad news is, is that these are 36 counts and all you need is one to go down. And in addition to what you laid out in terms of the charges, you're -- they're not sympathetic at all. One of which is an allegation that he bought a plane as a result of using client money.
BERMAN: That plane was seized yesterday, by the way.
JACKSON: And as many other things will be seized because of forfeiture allegations against the government. And, remember, when you're dealing with jurors, they're -- they're none too sympathetic when you're doing that. In addition to which, John, you pointed out, one of the clients being a paraplegic.
And then if you read the facts of the indictment, they're so compelling with regard to the brazen nature of the fraud. They're compelling with respect to I'll -- I'll get $4 million and I'll tell you, however, client, that I didn't settle the case and I'll give you an advance of $1,900 a month. I mean just horrific allegations. And at the end of the day, Paul, I believe, not possible disbarment, don't want to ever pre-judge anyone, but if these allegations are close to true, he'll lose his license and he'll go to jail.
BERMAN: All right, the word you used was "brazen," and that's how America knows about Michael Avenatti representing Stormy Daniels and appearing a lot on television, loud, very, very aggressive. Not surprisingly, he responded on Twitter yesterday, for 20 years I've represented Davids vs. Goliaths and relied on due process and our system of justice. Along the way, I have made many powerful enemies. I am entitled to a full presumption of innocence and am confident that justice will be done once all the facts are known. I intend to fully fight all the charges and plead not guilty.
So, you know, he's making that statement and he is -- he is -- he deserves due process. What I note is he made this statement on Twitter and I expect we might see him make a lot more statements on Twitter, maybe even public statements, in the style that we have seen before. Will that help him here?
CALLAN: No, it's going to hurt him and I think he's going to get in deeper and deeper. Avenatti's whole problem, I think, was he looked to be addicted to the television fame, then he was announcing his run for the presidency and he got way ahead of himself on this. And I think if he continues doing that, he's only going to make the situation worse. These are serious, serious crimes and he should be focused on defending against those charges in court.
BERMAN: OK, in 10 seconds or less, do lawyers make good clients?
JACKSON: No, they don't. Horrific. He'll be directing the litigation, what questions you should ask, what you shouldn't. And I'll tell you this, I knew he was in trouble when I saw him chasing Paul Callan to the elevator.
BERMAN: Right. Right.
CALLAN: (INAUDIBLE).
JACKSON: That was a whole other (INAUDIBLE).
BERMAN: We'll leave that -- we'll leave that one in the green room.
[08:35:00] I do want to get your guys take on the Lori Loughlin case right now because we have more reporting that they don't feel like they want to be in plea discussions just yet.
JACKSON: Yes.
BERMAN: What do you get by waiting? Now, we talked yesterday about the fact that prosecutors generally want the early plea. But if you were on the defense and you were Lori Loughlin, what are you waiting to see?
CALLAN: Well, I -- you know, I think there are two things going on here. Number one, a lot of times clients can't face the reality that they're going to prison and that it's a good idea to negotiate a plea. So Lori Loughlin may have hesitated to take the initial offer because she hoped to beat the case.
Lawyers also may be waiting to see what the evidence is, how closely can prosecutors prove their case? So there are reasons for their actions, but I think in the end she'll take a plea.
JACKSON: Prosecutors generally what they can do is something called a reverse proffer. They bring you into their office. They show you the evidence and they say, do you really want to fight the power? And you -- it's up to you, as you sit by your client, and they go through chapter and verse, the documentation, the records, the facts and everything else. And at that point should you not take a plea, it's problematic. Two ways to --
CALLAN: Can I add one point, too --
BERMAN: Very quickly.
CALLAN: About statistically. OK, for Avenatti to consider and Lori Loughlin, the conviction rate in federal court, when you go to trial, it's now over 99 percent of people are convicted. So you've got about a 1 percent chance of prevailing. BERMAN: Paul Callan, Joey Jackson, I don't plan on getting in trouble,
but if I ever do, I'm coming to you guys first.
JACKSON: We got your back.
CALLEN: We're here for you, John.
JACKSON: Yes.
BERMAN: All right.
CAMEROTA: That's an important number to know, Paul.
CALLAN: You're another case.
BERMAN: Ninety-nine percent.
CAMEROTA: And that's -- no, I'm going to take that into account.
BERMAN: That seems high.
CAMEROTA: Yes, thank you.
CALLAN: Yes.
CAMEROTA: It does.
CALLAN: Take a look at that stat. It's an interesting stat. Yes.
CAMEROTA: Thank you, Paul.
All right, there's disturbing new video that is rocking the Chicago Police Department. Officers here seen dragging a female student down the stairs, then shocking her with a stun gun. We have a live report on what's behind this, next.
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[08:40:41] CAMEROTA: New surveillance video captures Chicago police officers dragging a high school student down the stairs and a family attorney claims the teenager was later punched and shocked several times with a stun gun.
CNN's Ryan Young is live in Chicago with more.
What happened, Ryan?
RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Alisyn, that's the big question right now. If it wasn't for this new surveillance video, this 16-year-old could be facing multiple charges, but let's take a look at it. You can see the video from January. In the video you don't see what starts it, but you can see one Chicago police officer grabbing, pushing and dragging a student down a set of stairs before the second officer joins in.
This incident happened at Marshall High School on the west side of Chicago. And in the video you can see officers punch her and shock the teenager with a stun gun multiple times. According to a lawsuit filed against the officers and the Chicago Board of Education, the officers held the student down while stepping on her chest and did not seek help from her father or other school personnel who were standing nearby. In fact, listen to her father talk about this incident.
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LAURENTIO HOWARD, FATHER OF DNIGMA HOWARD: I couldn't believe I seen, you know, two sworn police officers of Chicago abusing my daughter like this and I'm standing right there watching them do this and can't do anything about it.
I thought that maybe they were going to try to choke her out or maybe she would lose consciousness or something like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: Now, Chicago police said they can't comment on this right now while they're going through the investigation. But take a listen to this. This is a comment from the school board. They say, the Chicago School District says it is, quote, committed to creating a safe and supportive learning environment for all students and we are deeply disturbed and troubled by this incident, which has no place in our schools.
So you obviously see this. We are told both officers have been removed from that school. But, John, there are a lot of questions about what actually happened in that video.
BERMAN: Indeed there are. All right, Ryan, we know you're going to stay on that for us. Thank you very much.
This morning, attorneys for New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft will argue against the release of videos of him in connection with the solicitation of prostitution charges that he is facing.
CNN's Rosa Flores is live in West Palm Beach.
This is the most important thing to the Kraft team, Rosa.
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, John, this meeting is -- this hearing, rather, is about whether or not the media will gain access to that video. Now, Florida has very generous open records laws and now those laws will be challenged by the high-powered attorneys hired by Robert Kraft. Kraft is charged with two misdemeanors of solicitation of prostitution.
Now, he denies that he has committed any crime and we're not expecting him to be in court today. But here's what the media is alleging. They are arguing that this is a case that is significant to the public and that this video should be released. Kraft's attorneys arguing that if this video is released, he would never be able to get a fair trial.
Now, further, on top of all of that, there is a separate hearing scheduled for April 26th, and that is to suppress this video all together. And what Kraft's attorneys are arguing there is that misinformation, false information, was used to obtain the warrant that allowed law enforcement to record this video and, therefore, the video is illegal and it should not be used at all.
Now, today, the judge has probably two big questions to ask -- to answer. First of all, will he release the video to the media, and that's a yes or no answer. And then, Alisyn, the other question that he has to answer is when will he release the video, today, or will he wait for the suppression hearing to happen and then make the decision at that point in time.
Alisyn.
CAMEROTA: OK, Rosa Flores, thank you very much for reporting for us.
So this week's CNN Hero is bringing a hidden population of teenagers out of the shadows, 1.3 million kids sleep on the streets or they couch surf every night. In the U.S., these are teenagers who have made the tough decision to leave unstable homes. They are forced to navigate a dangerous world on their own.
Vicki Sokolik is not only giving them a safe house to live in, but also giving them love, belonging and a chance at a brighter future.
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VICKI SOKOLIK: There's a lot of shame that goes with being a homeless unaccompanied youth. They hide what's actually going on with them. And so they really become this very invisible population.
Most people don't even know these kids exist.
[08:45:02] The transformation of these kids is monumental. They come in so broken and I'm just one person telling them I'm going to help them.
They become softer. It's just great that they can be happy and they're able to be kids again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: To see one young woman's journey from living without electricity for a year to trying to become a lawyer and to nominate someone you think should be a CNN Hero, go to cnnheroes.com.
BERMAN: All right, so why are there now dozens of needles on our set?
CAMEROTA: What does it mean for us?
BERMAN: I think it means something for our face. I'm just concerned about where those needles are going.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta has the answer as he previews his new show "Chasing Life." Chasing needles in our face (INAUDIBLE).
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [08:50:03] BERMAN: Oh, boy. All right.
CAMEROTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta is on a mission to find the secrets to living a long, healthy and meaningful life. In his new CNN original series "Chasing Life," Dr. Gupta travels the globe exploring other cultures' health practices.
And on his first journey, he tries acupuncture in Japan where stress has become an epidemic.
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DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): This is the moment of truth.
GUPTA (on camera): Real act of trust, I think, for both of us.
It's very close to my carotid artery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
GUPTA: I mean it felt like the needle went almost to the bone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
GUPTA: Five centimeters?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The needle is completely inside.
GUPTA: There's two inches of needle in my skin?
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BERMAN: I've seen a happy Sanjay face and that is not a happy Sanjay face.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us right now.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Thank you.
BERMAN: And before you even address the grimace, that acupuncturist was blind?
GUPTA: The acupuncturist was blind. This is a thing in Japan, 20 to 25 percent of acupuncturists are blind. They go through these training programs, oftentimes starting very early in life. And they didn't tell me this, John, until I got there, by the way. This is how it works in television sometimes.
BERMAN: Yes.
GUPTA: But I kind of looked, I'm like, I'm not sure. It doesn't seem like he can see. But apparently it's a -- you know, they feel like they use other sensations, they use tactile sensations to really zero in on areas that they think, you know, they should place these needles.
CAMEROTA: And before you use us as guinea pigs and do acupuncture on us, what are some of the other strange or effective things that you found for improving life?
GUPTA: Well, you know, Japan's one of the most stressed countries in the world and, as a result, they develop all these stress-relieving practices. Some of them are really wild. That acupuncture you see. But things like adult swaddling was another thing.
CAMEROTA: I like the sound of that. Can we do that?
BERMAN: Wow. This is morning TV.
CAMEROTA: I like that.
GUPTA: Rage rooms. You've done rage rooms?
BERMAN: No. Forest (INAUDIBLE) have.
GUPTA: Forest bathing.
BERMAN: Forest -- I'm a big fan of that.
GUPTA: Yes. No, the aroma of the forest, all that sort of stuff certainly helps.
BERMAN: Yes.
GUPTA: But the acupuncture is obviously something people are very familiar with.
And, you know, I thought you guys should experience this as well. Since I did, you guys should.
CAMEROTA: Bring it on.
BERMAN: Go ahead.
GUPTA: So we invited Dr. Daniel Hsu.
Welcome, doctor.
DR. DANIEL N. HSU, NEW YORK ACUHEALTH ACUPUNCTURE: Thank you very much. Thank you very much.
GUPTA: Thank you.
Here are your patients/victims.
HSU: How are you -- my victim/patient.
How are you?
CAMEROTA: Hi, Dr. Hsu, a pleasure. So, listen, Dr. Hsu, I've done this before when I was going through infertility I did this and it worked. So, am I going to get pregnant here on this show right now?
HSU: No, no, no, I -- I -- no, not by me.
GUPTA: Is that swaddling (INAUDIBLE).
CAMEROTA: Because it works, is all I can say, it works.
BERMAN: You have three kids now.
CAMEROTA: Yes, I have three kids, OK. So anything's possible right now, all right.
HSU: So you've done this before.
CAMEROTA: I've done it before.
HSU: So you're used to it. Should I use the small needles or should I use the big ones?
CAMEROTA: I prefer the small.
HSU: Oh, the smaller ones, OK. Well, I'll get the small ones out.
CAMEROTA: The small.
GUPTA: Got the Rolls-Royce in needles right there.
CAMEROTA: All right, where are you going to put them?
HSU: All right, so Dr. Gupta is talking about relaxation and stress relief, so we're going to do points on you guys today for stress relief because --
CAMEROTA: We need that.
HSU: Yes.
BERMAN: Great.
HSU: It's important.
All right, so we're going to do one on top of the head for each of you.
CAMEROTA: I like that one.
HSU: OK. And then we're going to do one on the ear.
CAMEROTA: Oh.
HSU: And then I'm going to end up with one right between the eyes.
BERMAN: All right. CAMEROTA: Oh, goody.
BERMAN: Bring it.
CAMEROTA: OK.
HSU: I've got to alcohol you with a swab a couple points.
GUPTA: It's a metaphor (INAUDIBLE).
HSU: All right, we're going to do your ear.
BERMAN: OK.
HSU: Top of the head.
BERMAN: Wow.
HSU: Right there.
OK. We're going to do one --
CAMEROTA: OK, with the same -- oh, I have an IFB in this ear. You should do this ear.
HSU: All right.
All right.
HSU: Here we go.
BERMAN: He's the doctor. You know what.
CAMEROTA: OK, never mind.
BERMAN: All right.
CAMEROTA: Sanjay, did it work?
HSU: Who's going first?
BERMAN: Alisyn better go first.
HSU: Alisyn. All right, here we go, ladies first.
CAMEROTA: Are you ready doing it in my ear?
HSU: I'm doing your head first.
CAMEROTA: OK.
HSU: Here we go.
GUPTA: I did think it worked for me. And I had never done acupuncture before.
HSU: There you go.
BERMAN: There's the needle in your head.
CAMEROTA: I like it.
BERMAN: Not even a flinch.
GUPTA: Good luck (ph).
CAMEROTA: I know, it doesn't bother me.
BERMAN: Camerota doesn't even flinch.
CAMEROTA: I like it.
HSU: Pay attention to the needle. There you go.
BERMAN: All right.
GUPTA: Pierced the helmet.
CAMEROTA: Did you feel it?
BERMAN: Yes, I didn't think anything could get through my hair. Honestly --
HSU: You have great hair.
BERMAN: The headline here is you got through my hair.
CAMEROTA: I do like it. It doesn't -- I like it but normally you're lying down for this, by the way. And so I thought that that was part of the relaxation. Did it work on you? Did you feel relaxed?
GUPTA: I felt like it worked for me. And I had never done it before. They zeroed in on areas that I had, you know, soreness.
BERMAN: Get her right in the ear.
GUPTA: But I definitely felt more relaxed afterwards. I don't think it's going to work for everybody. I think Dr. Hsu would even agree with that.
CAMEROTA: Is it in there?
HSU: It's in.
CAMEROTA: I didn't even feel it.
HSU: See.
BERMAN: He's ---
CAMEROTA: I like it.
HSU: I'm that good. CAMEROTA: You are that good.
BERMAN: It may -- it may be --
GUPTA: Very good.
BERMAN: That actually being able to see, which he can do, is better than us than your guy in Japan.
Yes, I don't feel it.
CAMEROTA: What -- no. Isn't that --
BERMAN: I don't feel it.
GUPTA: (INAUDIBLE). It's a good look.
CAMEROTA: And so because you can't feel it, and you're going to put one in between my eyes now, is the point that -- I mean I know something about this, the meridians open up even though you don't -- we don't feel it, is that the thinking?
HSU: Well, so there's -- there's that way of thinking. But that's an older way of thinking. That's an ancient way of thinking.
BERMAN: He just called you old.
CAMEROTA: Ancient.
HSU: No, no, not you, but the modern way of explaining it is that the acupuncture needles are actually stimulating your body's feel good chemicals and they're also relaxing your fight or flight response, your nervous response. So that's what we're doing here.
[08:55:06] CAMEROTA: OK.
HSU: We are going --
GUPTA: Lowers your adrenaline, right, your -- those --
BERMAN: All right.
CAMEROTA: I felt that one.
HSU: All right, let me get it in a little bit deeper then.
CAMEROTA: No. Oh, my God, I do feel that.
BERMAN: All right. All right.
GUPTA: What does that -- does it hurt?
CAMEROTA: I'm aware of it.
Did you feel it?
BERMAN: I don't. I don't feel it.
HSU: You don't feel it? I've done something wrong, then, if you don't feel it.
There, how about that?
CAMEROTA: Do you feel it?
BERMAN: Oh, my God, no, I am -- must have no nerve endings in my face.
CAMEROTA: So I like it and I feel that it works. And in Japan you're saying that they -- a lot of people do this.
GUPTA: It's a very common practice in Japan and many Asian countries. But, you know, one of the things is, we talk about, you know, the opioid epidemic in this country, running to medications first, all that sort of stuff. This, you know, can help. I mean it's not going to work for everybody. I think even Dr. Hsu would agree with that. But for some people it can offer benefits that medications sometimes --
CAMEROTA: How long do I have to walk around the halls of CNN like this?
BERMAN: I was going to say --
HSU: All day.
BERMAN: People do this in Japan. Do TV anchors normally do shows with needles in their faces in Japan?
GUPTA: No. This was -- this was just special for you guys.
BERMAN: All right.
GUPTA: Thank you for being such good sports.
HSU: When you leave the ones in your head, you can actually get am and fm.
BERMAN: I may forget the one in my head because of the helmet.
All right, doctor, thank you very much.
HSU: Thank you.
GUPTA: Thanks, guys.
CAMEROTA: Thank you. It really is --
BERMAN: Very much.
CAMEROTA: I feel more relaxed already.
You can watch "Chasing Life with Dr. Sanjay Gupta." It premieres tomorrow night at 9:00 p.m. only on CNN.
Sanjay, I can't wait to see this.
GUPTA: Thank you.
CAMEROTA: It looks really good.
BERMAN: All right, there is developing news on what the White House is trying to do with undocumented immigrants and we have needles in our head.
CAMEROTA: I'm totally relaxed.
BERMAN: We'll be back with much more after this.
GUPTA: Deep breaths.
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