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WikiLeaks Founder in Custody and Faces Extradition to United States; Julian Assange's Russia Connection; Assange Arrest Ignites Debate Over Press Freedom; Sudan Protesters Reject Military Rule; Trump Pushing Plan to Dump Migrants into Sanctuary Cities; Stephen Miller, the Architect Behind Trump's Policies; Man Whose Son Said "Daddy Hurt Mommy" Now On Trial; Disney Unveils Movie And TV Streaming Service; Meeting The Stranger Who Saved Your Life; Surviving Brexit Through Satire. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired April 12, 2019 - 14:00   ET


[14:00:00] HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London, I'm Hala Gorani. Tonight, Julian Assange awaits his fate in U.K. custody

as his fight over his extradition to the U.S. gathers pace. We have the very latest.

Also using people as political pawns. President Trump says he's considering putting detained immigrants into sanctuary cities as he hits

out at the Democrats. Also this.


How do you thank somebody for doing that for you? Giving you four extra years.


GORANI: What it's like to meet someone for the first time in years after they saved your life. We'll bring you that remarkable story and an

emotional installment of our "Life Changer" series.

Julian Assange may be out of the Ecuadorian embassy but the drama of what we saw on Thursday reverberates around the world still. That embassy

cocooned WikiLeaks founder from one of his greatest fears, extradition to the United States. And today we're hearing reaction around the world, the

U.N. is insisting that Assange get a fair trial. Here in the UK, the opposition leader. Jeremy Corbyn has come out against the idea of his


Meanwhile in Ecuador the government there says they've arrested a close collaborator of Assange. Let's begin with Nina dos Santos. She's outside

the Ecuadorian embassy in London. First of all, talk to us, what more do we know about where Julian Assange is and what the next step is in the

process in this extradition process and the case against him here in the UK?

NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN EUROPE EDITOR: Just checking my telephone to see whether I've had a response from WikiLeaks and Assange's barristers to find

out whether they have managed to speak to him. It's believed that he's building held at the Bellmarsh prison which is a maximum-security detention

facility in the east of London. It's the type of place where high-profile individuals are being held.

Separately, those who have been facing serious charges like terrorism have been held in the past. It's a newly built prison. And obviously they're

quite different facilities to the ones he's been holed up here for several thousand days over the last seven years, nearly, that he's been staying

here. In terms of the future of where this is going to go, what we're expecting is an extradition hearing on May the second. He will appear by

video link by that appearance and another one in early June. So far, we haven't been able to confirm from his solicitors and barristers if they've

been able to visit here. That will be the next thing we will try and ascertain, Hala.

GORANI: Nina dos Santos, thanks very much. By the way we will be talking to you in the coming hours. Very interesting view of the living quarters

of Julian Assange inside the embassy. There's a 3D rendering and a small room there. It gives you a sense of how cramped it was in there. There

was a treadmill, a little meeting table. But this is essentially where he lived for seven years. And it's approximately six meters in length and

three meters in width.

You're talking about a tiny area. Reaction to Assange's arrest is coming in from across the world. And Russia described it as the hand of democracy

squeezes the throat of freedom. Questions about Russia and WikiLeaks have swirled intensely since the 2016 election. Matthew Chance has that angle.


MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It was the posting of this classified footage of a deadly American air strike killing Iraqi

journalists in 2007 that earned WikiLeaks and Julian Assange the attention of the United States. The U.S. had tried to keep the incident under wraps

calling it a tragic accident only after it was posted online for all to see. Later embarrassing dumps of classified U.S. diplomatic cables and

secret files on Guantanamo Bay have left the WikiLeaks founder facing U.S. criminal charges and a request to the United Kingdom for his extradition.

But there are other U.S. suspicions too.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing.


[14:05:00] CHANCE: Maligned Kremlin contacts after WikiLeaks dumped thousands of hacked Democratic party emails in 2016 amplifying alleged

Russian-U.S. election interference. In his last CNN interview later in 2016, Julian Assange from his Ecuadorian embassy hiding place refused to

tell me the source of his leaks.

How concerned are you that the emails that WikiLeaks has released, could have been hacked by the Russian secret services and could have been

released to you as a way of manipulating or influencing the U.S. Presidential election?

JULIAN ASSANGE, FOUNDER OF WIKILEAKS: Well, what we try and do as a protection organization is, we like to create maximum ambiguity to who our

sources are. Because maybe it was a hard drive that came from eBay, maybe consultants, maybe state actors, maybe --

CHANCE: But you're not specifically ruling out the Russian secret services, are you, who are you protecting?

ASSANGE: Well, perhaps one day the source or sources will step forward and that might be an interesting moment. Some people will have egg on their

faces and it will be interesting.

CHANCE: But the only face with egg on it so far is the Kremlin's. The U.S. Justice Department says Russian military intelligence transferred the

Democratic emails to WikiLeaks. 12 of its serving agents have been indicted despite the fact Russia denies any official involvement casting

the hackers instead as patriotic freelancers. Free like artists, the Russian President explained when confronted on the issue.

If they're patriotic, they fight against those who speak badly against Russia, he added. Its probably consequential that the only camera

recording the arrest was from Russian state television. But the condemnation from Moscow seems calculated. They call this the hand of

democracy squeezing the throat of freedom. But for his critics, this controversial whistleblower is a tool of the Kremlin, a co-conspirator

employed to disrupt democracy, finally getting his just deserts.


GORANI: The arrest Assange throws open the debate over press freedoms. One of Julian Assange's lawyers spoke to Jim Sciutto about that exact

question. Here's her take.


JENNIFER ROBINSON, ATTORNEY FOR JULIAN ASSANGE. The charge itself is hacking. If you look at the allegations, actually, it boils down to having

communicated with the source and having provided assistance with -- assisting him with protecting her anonymity in the context. Any journalist

should be concerned about these charges, that the factual allegations are providing a source in protecting their own identity. That is absolutely a

news gathering question and a free speech question.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Let me ask you this though. The argument here, to use layman's terms, there's some electronic specifics to this, was that

they -- that Assange and WikiLeaks gave Chelsea Manning a way to break in, in effect, to the Department of Defense computers by acting as an

administer which gave him, like, when you have someone who's working on your office -- gave him power to get into other parts there. There's not

about protecting his identify. That's about gaining access.

ROBINSON: To preference this by saying, these are the allegations. None of them have been proven. But it does --

SCIUTTO: Did he provide that help?

ROBINSON: It does boil down to the allegations as they read on the indictment boil down to providing assistance to a source to protect their


SCIUTTO: Did he provide more help than that, that's my question?

ROBINSON: That's a matter that's left to be determined and we'll have our arguments about that in time. But looking at this, this absolutely

encapsulates what journalists do all the time in terms of communications with their sources and touches upon the news gathering process. This is a

first amendment question and this is why free speech groups are concerned about the impact that this will have and the chilling impact this may have

on journalists everywhere.


GORANI: This is one of lawyers for Julian Assange. Let's get both sides of this argument. Frida Ghitis is a world affairs columnist at "World

Politics Review", Alex Abdo, a senior staff attorney at Knight First Amendment Institute, you

were a lawyer working on behalf of WikiLeaks in the DNC versus WikiLeaks case, is that right?


GORANI: You say this is a slippery slope. Why?

ABDO: I think it is worth being clear ta first that Assange is charged with conspiring to hack into a government database. Nobody argues that the

first amendment protects anybody trying to hack into a database. It also describes a number of routine journalistic practices as part of that


It says that Assange communicated with Manning using a secure chat service, it says that Assange tried to protect Manning's identity and it says that

Assange created an online folder or drop box for Manning to upload leaked files. Those are all routine journalistic practices. So it's troubling

that those are described as part of the conspiracy.

GORANI: You wrote in a column that Julian Assange is an activist, not a journalist. What difference does it make if what he ended up exposing with

the help of Chelsea Manning, ended up benefitting in the end the public, journalists used a lot of that material in reporting.

FRIDA GHITIS, WORLD AFFAIRS COLUMNIST, "WORLD POLITICS REVIEW": The material that he helped disseminate was of interest to the public. There's

no question about that. But the objectives of his work and the way in which he operated are not the ones of a journalist and to me the clearest

proof that he was not working as a journalist and that his work aimed at affecting political outcome and that deceiving the public, an interview

that he gave to Dutch television during the time.

When there was this big controversy about Seth Rich, a young man who used to work for the Democratic party who had been killed in a robbery. And

conspiracy theories were trying to spread a rumor that it was Hillary Clinton's people who had him murdered. And Julian Assange went on Dutch

television and promoted that theory. He said there's a young man, 27-year- old man who was shot in the back of the head for no reason -- no known reason. And when the --

GORANI: That would be a separate thing, Frieda, from what the U.S. government is accusing him of doing. Alex, you say that in the -- in your

firm's press release after the arrest, it's troubling that an indictment sweeps activities that unlawful and essential to press freedom. What's do

you think the legal options are now for Julian Assange, once this extradition, it appears it's in motion takes place?

ABDO: There will be court proceedings about his -- you know, whether the allegations made against him are correct or not. And those will proceed.

But I do want to point out that a lot of the concern that press freedom organizations have about this indictment could be cleared up by the

government itself. The core problem really is that the government has not made clear whether the routine journalistic practices it describes in the

indictment would be a sufficient basis for the charges made against Assange.

If they would, if the government views essentially conspiring with a -- I shouldn't say conspiring. If the government views working with a

government source to obtain classified material and publish that so that the public can read it, if it views those core acts as sufficient basis for

charging something under U.S. criminal law, then that I think is a true threat to press freedom. And the government has not made clear that it

thinks it couldn't do that. And that's why I think you have so many press freedom groups expressing concern about the way in which --

GOLD: But, Frieda, in your column you essentially say -- you acknowledge that this could be of concern to journalists, right?

GHITIS: I think this could be abused by authoritarian governments and we see so much of that now. I think this is a delicate moment for

journalists. I think this case is very important. But I think that Julian Assange is taking cover under a phony claim to journalism. He does not

engage in traditional normal journalistic practices, he does not pursue the truth, he does not -- he seeks to correctly, accurately inform the public.

He seeks to obtain different goals and he does it using methods that are not legitimate journalistic methods. But I do believe this is a risky

moment for press freedoms.

GORANI: Yes. Alex, what's your reaction to what Frieda is saying, he's not using journalistic methods and he did perpetuate that absolutely awful

conspiracy theory about Seth Rich having been murdered.

[14:15:00] ABDO: I'm focused on the indictment and what is described in the indictment. And there you see what I think of, at least in part, as

routine journalistic methods, communicating with a source in a secure way and protecting the identity of the source. That's standard fair in

national security reporting and if the government thinking that those are sufficient basis to charge somebody, that's truly concerning. And if the

government doesn't think that's a sufficient basis, then it should make that clear so that we can have certainty for journalists who do this sort

of work.

GORANI: And so, Frieda, very last one to you, Alex is focused on what's in the indictment, the indictment, if it's about helping someone obtained

classified information in order to be used journalistically, does that -- how then do you still consider this a case that is -- that should be

prosecuted by the U.S. Justice Department?

GHITIS: We've heard that there may be more charges coming and it's hard to speculate about that and again I think it's a slippery slope. But the

important thing here is that Julian Assange is not a journalist. You don't release a trove -- you don't do a data dump for the whole world to read

without checking to see what you're broadcasting is accurate. You don't put out this kind of information without checking with the people who are

being potentially smeared by the information. That's not the work of a journalist.

GORANI: Frieda and Alex, thanks very much for joining us for this discussion.

After 30 years of rule, the people of Sudan are cautious about their safety and their future. President Omar al-Bashir has finally been pushed from

power, but professionals who organized widespread protests for months have little faith in the transition plan offered by the military that is now and

has been in charge.

They are challenging the state of emergency. And last night they defied a curfew. They say the military government is in their words merely a change

of masks for the same regime that people revolted against.

Some protestors entertained others playing violins and singing. The people are vowing to beat all means of violence and intimidation that they've

become accustomed to. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMMED YUSUF, SUDANESE PROTESTER (through translator): The head of the military is under which constitution? We don't know what this constitution

is. They canceled the constitution and they stopped all the government sectors. And until now, the show will continue. But we will also continue

forward and the regime will fall again.


GORANI: Let's go straight to the latest on the unsettled mood in Sudan. What's the latest on the ground? I guess more importantly is what is the

military likely to do if these protestors do not go home?

FARAI SEVENZO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That is the crux of the problem, Hala. Yesterday when -- it's the former defense minister and of course, it is the

very fact that they do not trust this new regime because it's exactly the same as the old regime, they say. And they say that they're changing hats.

They're all the same. And of course with this one month of curfews from 10:00 at night until 4:00 in the morning, that's where the real test is.

They say that the -- if you don't come with a new solution, the solutions must come from the protestors. They're trying to appear conciliatory. But

they want to restore order. But of course that's already been flaunted by the protesters that were out in full force last night and again this

morning. And the mood has turned to giving the protesters the upper hand.

They are festive as they wait near that military headquarters and one more thing, Hala, is there have been some very forthright and angry words from

the Sudanese professional association. We heard from them and they were un-categorically fierce about what they think of their new rulers. They

said they've been forced to legalize murders, marginalization, racism, corruption and favoritism and they circumvent laws and the constitution.

[14:20:00] Of course, they have abandoned the constitution. So at the moment the impasse is quite real and the tension has not abated and of

course we're waiting to see what the army's next move will be, Hala.

GORANI: Thanks very much. Still to come tonight, the U.S. President says he's considering releasing detained immigrants into so-called sanctuary

cities. Is it political revenge? Also --


TRUMP: This American carnage stops right here and stops right now.


GORANI: The man behind those words and this administration's immigration policies, a political student of Steve Bannon who has the President's ear.

Stephen Miller's story is next.


GORANI: U.S. President Donald Trump is facing accusations of trying to use migrants as political pawns. It's over a plan to release detained

immigrants into sanctuary cities. Mr. Trump just tweeted saying it's been strongly considered and this despite sources telling CNN that they deemed

the proposal likely illegal. Jeremy Diamond joins me from the White House.

And the talk is here that the President and his advisors, perhaps, Stephen Miller considered this as political revenge against Democratic opponents so

these migrants would be released into their constituencies and cities.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: What's so fascinating about it too is that the White House had put out a series of statements to "The

Washington Post" and CNN this morning saying that this idea was considered and ultimately rejected as in this proposal.

The White House originated proposal to have I.C.E. essentially take these migrants who were detained at the U.S. southern border and, you know,

release them in these sanctuary cities which are primarily Democratic strongholds across the United States saying that that idea was rejected.

But now we're seeing the President once again tweeting about this, saying that he is indeed in favor of finding a way to do this.

I spoke with a White House official to try to get a little bit of the sense of the inconsistency here and their argument is that while the White House

is no longer pursuing that proposal that was rejected by lawyers at the Department Of Homeland Security, it is now looking at alternative routes,

ways in which they could potentially do this that would not run afoul of some of those previous legal objections. So splitting hairs a little bit


[14:25:03] But, again, the bottom line here is that lawyers at the Department of Homeland Security found this could not be done in a legal

way. Perhaps the White House would need to pursue some legislation to get this done. Again, all of this makes it very unlikely that this would

actually happen. Certainly the President is seizing upon this as a politically savvy talking point and something that he can use to shift the

narrative away from border crisis and onto these sanctuary cities.

GORANI: But it's a remarkable plan anyway. So the President has said, these migrants and asylum seekers saying they're dangerous. But if he

believes that and he's happy to ship some of them to sanctuary cities and Democratic constituencies, he's happy to put fellow Americans at risk and

in jeopardy in order to prove a political point.

DIAMOND: That's right. And the argument that we're hearing from the White House just to provide their perspective is saying that, look, these are

migrants who would already be released. Either because those detention facilities are overcapacity and they have to release certain individuals or

it's under the capture and release policies where individuals are released pending a later court date.

The White House is saying these are people who would already be released but instead of releasing them in towns and cities that are near the border,

the White House would like to release them in Democratic strongholds across the country like say San Francisco. All of that at a cost to U.S.

taxpayers, of course.

GORANI: Live at the White House. One of the key people behind that plan is senior White House adviser Stephen Miller. He's an immigration hard

liner who's finger prints are all over the President's policies. Here's a closer look at Stephen Miller.


STEPHEN MILLER, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: Can you name one foreign threat in the world today outside this country's borders that currently

kills more Americans than the threats crossing our southern border.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The joy of this is I get to ask you questions --

MILLER: The answer is no.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At 33 he's President Donald Trump's youngest policy adviser. The man at the center of the immigration battle

who seems like he's always ready for a fight.

MILLER: That is one of the most outrageous, ignorant and foolish things you've ever said.

KAYE: Stephen Miller embraced his anti-immigrant views early on after the 9/11 attacks when he was 16, he penned an editorial for the "Santa Monica

Lookout" arguing his high school wasn't patriotic enough. "Osama Bin Laden would feel very welcome at Santa Monica High School," he wrote. He

complained about rampant political correctness and his classmates who lacked basic English skills. At one point he tried to stop Spanish

language announcements.

MILLER: I will say and I will do things that no one else in their right mind would say or do.

KAYE: All of this, it seems, just a dress rehearsal for his next stop, Duke University, writing for the "Duke Chronicle," he sounded the alarm

about immigration, making a name for himself in the national media. " We oppose common sense security members. We give driver's license to illegal


After graduating he moved to Washington, eventually landing a job as an aide to then Senator Jeff Sessions. Miller helped sessions derail a

bipartisan immigration deal in 2013 by distributing a handbook full of talking points. He connected with Steve Bannon who gave him entry into

Trump's orbit. Miller now on the world stage crafted Trump's inaugural speech.

TRUMP: The crime and the gangs and the drugs that have stolen too many lives and robbed our country of so much unrealized potential. This

American carnage stops right here and stops right now.

KAYE: Miller has a reputation as Trump's enforcer on immigration. He co- authored the President's travel ban, later suggesting the federal judge who struck it down had no right to question the President's authority.

MILLER: Our opponents, the media and the whole world will soon see as we begin to take further actions that the powers of the President to protect

our country are very substantial and will not be questioned.

KAYE: Miller often in the President's hear. Also reportedly helped derail negotiations for the border wall and government shutdown.

MILLER: It is a very fundamental issue. At stake is the question of whether or not the United States remains a sovereign country.

KAYE: For his part, the President seems to like what Stephen Miller represents. Not only his conservativism, but his combativeness too.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: My question --

MILLER: You can be condescending --

TAPPER: I'm not being condescending.

KAYE: Randi Kaye, CNN New York.


[14:30:00] GORANI: Still to come tonight, prosecutors say the truth was always out there, buried in their backyard. A Florida man makes a horrific

discovery that could answer a decades' old mystery. You don't want to miss this incredible story coming up.


[14:30:47] HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: "Daddy hurt mommy." A 3- year-old boy told authorities those exact words decades ago after his mother went missing without a trace. Her body was never found until the

now grown up man, who said, "Daddy hurt mommy" all those years ago, started doing renovations at his childhood home.

His grizzly discovery, back in 2014, led his father to be charged with murder finally. And that trial is now wrapping up in Jacksonville,


CNN's Martin Savidge is outside the courthouse and joins us now live. A remarkable story of a man who didn't live with his father, he bought his

childhood home, started digging up the backyard and then found something. Tell us about it.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Literally makes a discovery that changes just about everything when it comes to the course of justice here.

The jury now has this case. So they are deliberating the fate now of Michael Haim. It was Bonnie Haim who disappeared back in 1993, and she was

not seen again for at least 20-plus years. But then her own son makes an incredible discovery.


SAVIDGE (voice-over): By her family's old words, 23-year-old Bonnie Haim was a loving mother, daughter, and sister, who in January 1993 suddenly

vanished leaving behind her 3-year-old son, Aaron.

Bonnie's husband, Michael Haim, has always maintained his wife walked out on him following an argument.

MICHAEL HAIM, HUSBAND OF BONNIE HAIM: Actually, she just wasn't happy and she wanted to leave and I couldn't stop her from leaving.

SAVIDGE: Bonnie Haim was never seen again.

Her disappearance profiled in a 1994 episode of "Unsolved Mysteries." The program focused on a startling revelation, a very young Aaron made to

Florida's Child Protective Services, saying, "Daddy hurt her."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From what Aaron told us that day, my only conclusion was that there had been a domestic fight and that Michael Haim had killed

his wife and had removed her. And that their three and a half-year-old son, Aaron Haim, had witnessed this.

SAVIDGE: But with limited evidence and no body, there was little police could do. Aaron was adopted and his mother's case went cold for decades.

Then, in 2014, police were called to the former Haim family home, finding the once-little boy of 21 years ago now grown up and going by his adopted

name, Aaron Fraser.

Aaron had recently acquired the home and was renovating it, digging up the pool, when he discovered some plastic sheeting with what he thought was a

coconut wrapped inside -- recalling the moment from the witness stand.

AARON FRASER, SON OF BONNIE HAIM: I picked up the coconut object and it ended up being the top portion of her skull.

SAVIDGE: Tests would confirm Aaron had found the remains of his own mother.

Prosecutors say authorities also recovered a 22-caliber shell casing.

Now, 52-year-old Michael Haim is on trial for murder. His attorney still maintaining he had nothing to do with Bonnie's death.

JANICE WARREN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: In this case, the lack of evidence is just as important, if not more important, than the evidence you will hear.

[14:35:06] SAVIDGE: Just before the trial began, Bonnie Haim's sister posted online what it means for her family." It's going to rip off

bandages and expose us to things we had long ago pushed to the back of our memories. But sometimes we have to rip off bandages to really begin to


For Aaron Fraser, the trial is his chance to finish the story he first told when he was just three, the remarkable truth of how he lost and eventually

found his mother.


SAVIDGE: Even as this trial progressed, Hala, there were more surprises. Michael Haim himself took the witness stand. That seems to surprise both

the prosecution and his own defense team.

The prosecution went after him aggressively asking all sorts of questions about the case. He maintained his composure, his voice level never really

seemed to change. He was asked directly if he had ever hurt his wife or would have, he said, "Absolutely not," he loved his wife. He would have

never hurt his wife. Hala?

GORANI: And this son, Martin, did -- he bought his childhood home, right? He'd been adopted, he had -- used another name, so he bought his childhood

home and then started doing these renovations in the backyard and that's when he found his mother's remains.

Do we know if he bought that house with the intention of looking for his mom?

SAVIDGE: No. That has never been brought forward. The way he actually got that home was that he sued his father, a wrongful death lawsuit for the

death of his mother. And as a result of that, he got the house as part of the settlement. The young man won that lawsuit against his father and the

house was given to him.

He was renovating the home, he says, because he wanted to rent it out. Use it for generating income. He didn't believe in any way or know that by

renovating that home, he would make the horrible discovery he did.

GORANI: All right. Martin Savidge, thanks very much. We'll be keeping our eye on that trial.

And check us out on Facebook, and @HalaGorani on Twitter.

Disney has revealed new details on its upcoming streaming service. Everybody's getting into streaming these days. A lot of you watch Netflix,

some of you may have the Amazon Fire Stick. And Disney is seeing like many other content companies, a big opportunity.

Disney Plus will launch in North America in November with a massive collection of TV shows and movies.

The heroes and characters from marvel, "Star Wars," Pixar and IDsney animation, will now be exclusively on Disney Plus. The company expects to

produce dozens of original programs and films in the first year alone.

Disney hopes the new service will end the streaming dominance of Netflix. The cost for one month of Disney Plus will be cheaper than the standard

option from Netflix.

Brian Stelter joins me now from New York. It really is -- we're in the streaming wars right now. Netflix has a huge head start though, but every

content company now is desperately trying to catch up.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And Disney is really, I think being well received for its plan to do so. The stock is way up

today. Investors like what they heard.

And, of course, in November, this will roll out. So folks in North America will be able to subscribe this service in November. All around the world,

it will be available in the next two years. This is the future of Disney.

The CEO, Bob Iger, is banking almost everything on this venture. He's moving from selling his channels to cable companies which then distribute

them on satellite and cable around the world to a more direct business model where he has direct relationships with tens of millions of families

who he hopes will be subscribing to Disney Plus.

This is the media revolution happening as we speak. And, of course, as you said, Netflix has led the way by signing up hundreds of millions of people

for streaming video accounts. But, now Disney, as you can see, they're up almost 11 percent today on the news that Disney Plus will launch soon.

Disney has decided this is its course, its future as well.

GORANI: I wonder -- so this is also our future, right? I mean, watching streaming, bingeing programs, original content. Netflix though is spending

a ton of money, not making money yet.

I mean, this is going to be -- I mean, I guess like Amazon in the early days where you really throw everything you can at the business model and

hope that it will pay you back. But shareholders are being quite patient because they're betting on future success. Yes.

STELTER: You're right. Disney is going to be spending billions of dollars and it's projecting billions of dollars of losses with this new streaming

business. But with the expectation, with the hope that they can get this thing rolling and get it into 50 or a hundred million homes and then it'll

start to make a healthy profit.

I also think Disney is starting out at a very low price, $7.00 a month. The idea being they can get you hooked and then start to raise the price.

[14:40:01] It is not alone though, Netflix and Disney not alone, Warner Media, which on CNN, Comcast, other major media players are all doing a

version of this, trying to bundle up shows and movies together and sell it as a streaming product. All these companies are convinced that that is

what consumers want.

I think the data does bear that out. Live news and live sports is not going away. But other kinds of entertainment, other forms of media are

going to be mostly on demand. And the companies that don't catch up to that and don't have a plan for it are going to be left behind.

GORANI: And I mean -- for you, I know you have a -- you have one child and another on the way.

STELTER: That's right.

GORANI: Is the content -- for parents, it's great to have this type of thing, right? I mean, you have all these -- this Disney content and then

Netflix might be for the adults.

I mean, I'm wondering if our future is we'll have two or three streaming platforms, no more traditional cable, no more traditional satellite.

STELTER: I think the lines are blurring so much between them, however. My cable bundle that I get also has a button a press to watch Netflix. So the

lines that have gotten so blurry that I'm not sure we'll be able to recognize it at the end of this media revolution.

But there is going to be this foundational situation where you choose a few different bundles to subscribe to, you buy your Netflix, you buy your

Disney, you buy a few others, and you create a -- create a version of your media world that way. That is -- seems what consumers do want.

There's an interesting analyst note now -- saying on Wall Street that's saying, hey, maybe parents don't want their kids watching TV all day,

certainly, that's something I've been thinking about so that's going to be a factor for Disney.

But, look, Disney, if anybody can pull this off, it's going to be Disney. They are a media empire.

GORANI: Right. That's the way I've been going too. I have a few streaming platforms. I pick and choose. I binge watch shows sometimes and

then I watch news live. That's -- and I found that I don't really need the traditional model anymore. So I wonder if that's the way we'll all be

doing to.

STELTER: And this is an improvement. This is an improvement. That's what matters. Yes.

GORANI: Yes. Brian, thanks very much. Have a great weekend.

STELTER: Thanks. You too.

GORANI: Still to come tonight --





SCOLTOCK: We meet.


SCOLTOCK: I'm so happy.



GORANI: Two strangers meet for the first time, but they greet each other like old friends in the next installment of our "LIFE CHANGERS" series.

We'll bring you the story of a lifesaving gift, next.


GORANI: Welcome back. Welcome back. We want to take a break now from the headlines and return to our "LIFE CHANGERS" series where prevailing people

who changed the lives of others.

In this case, it's not just changing a life, but saving one. And after years of waiting, one man met one woman to finally thank her in person. We

have the opportunity to be there when they met for the first time and it was an extraordinary moment. This is Gary and Karen's story.



[14:45:59] SCOLTOCK: At last.

HODGES: Hi, Karen.

SCOLTOCK: We meet.


GORANI (voice-over): This is the story of a face-to-face meeting probably unlike any you've ever seen.

HODGES: I've waited three and a half years.

GORANI: There were tears and long hugs. Even though this man and this woman are unrelated and had never met before.

To really understand the story of Gary and Karen, we need to go back to the beginning.

On holiday visiting his son in California in 2015, Gary says he began to feel unwell.

HODGES: I was feeling weaker and weaker, day by day. Eventually, it got to the stage where I could hardly walk, I couldn't stand up. So my son and

my wife took me to the doctors in San Francisco and I was told to go to the hospital immediately.

GORANI (on-camera): They realized right then and there that there was something serious going on.

HODGES: Oh, yes. Once I was on the plane and flying out of San Francisco, it really struck me that I was dying and that I had a serious problem. And

I remember looking down at the city, thinking that I -- and thinking that I probably wouldn't see my son in San Francisco again.

GORANI (voice-over): Back home in England, Gary had the crushing diagnosis confirmed. He had leukemia and swiftly began chemotherapy.

Fast forward a few months. And Karen is in the hospital for a procedure of her own.

SCOLTOCK: So I was lying on the bed. There was a big needle in one arm, big needle in the other, and then there's two machines.

GORANI: Only weeks before, Karen had seen a story on television about a young boy with leukemia. It was that moment she says she decided to act

and do something that would come to save Gary's life. She signed up to be a stem cell donor, helped by a charity, DKMS, Karen soon got a letter

saying there was a match.

GORANI (voice-over): What was that like, getting that letter?

SCOLTOCK: I was just overwhelmed. I felt like I've won the lottery, because I believe it's millions to one, sometimes, to get a good match for


GORANI (voice-over): Her lucky match was Gary.

HODGES: It just came out of the blue and we were really excited, very, very happy.

GORANI: In October 2015, less than a year after falling ill, Gary received Karen's stem cells. Within two weeks, he was producing functioning bone


HODGES: Karen is with me all the time now. Her hemoglobin provides the oxygen that how is my body, how is my brain, everything I do. If I get

ill, like get an infection, it's her immune system that protects me.

GORANI (on-camera): You're giving a part of yourself, literally, to help a stranger.

SCOLTOCK: If you're in that position to do it, why not?

GORANI (voice-over): After a stem cell transplant, donor and recipient are allowed to communicate, but only anonymously for the first two years.

For Karen, it began with a card from Gary.

SCOLTOCK: Dear donor, thank you for your kindness and generosity. The stem cells you've provided have taken well and I'm looking forward to going

home from the hospital soon. Your gift of life is very much appreciated. And I will always be grateful to you.

So, obviously, when I received that, I was quite emotional and then you just start praying that they will do well.

GORANI: Gary did do well. And over time, he also received regular letters from Karen.

HODGES: I think of you often. Sorry. And it's comforting to know that together we have achieved our goal.

GORANI (on-camera): That we've achieved our goal. That's just so lovely. And you're still getting very emotional. I'm getting emotional because

this is my first time hearing this story. But you, years later is still getting emotional. Why is that?

HODGES: How do you thank somebody for doing that for you? You know, giving you that four extra years, 3-1/2 years since my transplant. That

extra life. Some of the best years of my life.

GORANI: So back to that face to face, the day has come for Gary, Karen, and their families to meet for the very first time. As the moment

approaches, the excitement and nerves are palpable.


SCOLTOCK: At last.

HODGES: Hi, Karen.

SCOLTOCK: We meet.


SCOLTOCK: I'm so happy.


GORANI (voice-over): For Gary's wife, Marian (ph), who's accompanied him, the moment is especially emotional.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you for saving my husband.

SCOLTOCK: I know. Your words -- thank you. Your words really make me cry. When you thought on the e-mail the other day that you couldn't wait

to hug the person who saved your husband's life -- I was like --

[14:50:10] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every extra day is extra special for us. Thank you so much.


GORANI: Karen's gift of life has had a profound impact not only on Gary, but his whole family.

GORANI (voice-over): You're holding hands.

HODGES: She's my sister. That's my sister.

GORANI: How is it different to meet in person?

HODGES: Well, it's --

SCOLTOCK: Yes. It makes it all real now.

GORANI: Are you going to keep this relationship --

HODGES: You bet. Yes, definitely.

GORANI (voice-over): Bond in blood that will last literally a lifetime.

Thank you, guys. Thank you so much.

HODGES: Thank you.


GORANI: And we'll be posting this story, by the way, on our Facebook page and we'll give you the website of this particular charity that organizes

stem cell donations. There are others as well.

Certainly, it's something that I know personally has encouraged and inspired people to consider stem cell donation. A real life-changing


More to come including Brexit. Brexit has been so chaotic that many people in Britain don't know whether to laugh or cry.

After the break, we look at how the political chaos has been the perfect fuel for comedians.


GORANI: It's been another exhausting week of Brexit drama in the U.K. and beyond. Britain was headed to crash out of the E.U. today, by the way.

This is the second day that Brexit has not happened.

Well, that was before EU leaders agreed to further delay it until Halloween, October 31st. The British have now endured years of agonizing

over Brexit and the political chaos has pushed some to the point of despair.

But as Nick Glass reports, others are seeing opportunities to laugh about it all.


NICK GLASS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We're all also familiar now with the "B" word, just animate the cartoons. And here's a

movie Franchise, Theresa May crashed as pilot.

Also from the Guardian, May plucked. From the New Yorker, walk on part Big Ben has cuckoo clock.

So, what are they all looking at here, why all the mobile phones? Well, a simple reason, a big painting by the street artist Banksy is back on show

in Bristol. His version of the House of Commons. The image has been widely disseminated on Facebook.

GLASS (on-camera): Very, very out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's so tropical I think we go, yes.

GLASS: Sorry, sorry, out. Sorry out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wondering why it's actually not based on an actual photo from Parliament. You can imagine that they probably are that

(INAUDIBLE), and picking the noses, that's a loaded among screaming over there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think they're all monkeys. I think Parliament are doing a good job of not passing a mess, not making a big mistake.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The way they're behaving recently, I don't think he's gone far enough.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But the country has developed now around the political situation is the kind of God help us all. We've got to laugh, there's

nothing left to do.

GLASS (voice-over): The artist John Springs has worked obsessively on this huge Brexit canvas for almost two years. Jean-Claude Juncker, driving in

apparent gravy train in a hellish vision partly inspired by Hieronymus Bosch.

[14:55:06] JOHN SPRINGS, ARTIST AND CARICATURIST: You can't put their heads on spikes anymore. So, this is all you can do.

Through humor, it has a rather comforting effect, and it's what brings people back together, whether Remainers or Brexiteers.

GLASS: A more sobering response to Brexit from another British artist, Anish Kapoor, a relief map of the kingdom violently ripped apart and in

urgent need of surgery. The work is called "Brexit, Broxit, We All Fall Down."






GLASS: The fact is there's simply no escaping the "B"-word, used teasingly to promote a bookmakers --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brexit, it's like Boris Johnson's hair. He's the only one who doesn't sink to complete disaster. It's why you, my dear British

champs, let's hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

GLASS: And for a television newspaper ad, the Commons turned into an open- plan zoo.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I could talk to the animals, learn their language, maybe take an animal degree.

GLASS: An Edvard Munch exhibition has just opened at the British Museum with an original lithograph of "The Scream." The London Evening Standard

cartoonist just couldn't resist it.

The museum was so impressed, it acquired his Theresa May version for its collection.

The truth is, we all need cheering up at this Brexatious (ph) time. Being British, that means ever darker art, wit, and satire.

Nick Glass, CNN, in London.


GORANI: I'm Hala Gorani, if it's your weekend, have a great one. I will see you next Monday. Do stay with CNN. We have a break and then it's

Richard Quest here in the studio.