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Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris Damaged in Fire; French President Pledges Restoration of Notre Dame Cathedral; Holy Relics Undamaged in Notre Dame Cathedral Fire. Aired 8-8:30 ET

Aired April 16, 2019 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Dangerous and awful situation.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: To parents, vaccinate, and your choice affects so many other children as well. So don't make the decision for them, right? Thank you both Dr. Fauci, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, so good to have you.

All right, more ahead. New information in the investigation and stability of Notre Dame Cathedral after that massive fire. Let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looked like it's an explosion. It was just horrible.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We had the tower full, people screamed. It's so sad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What went through my mind was the heart of Paris is burning.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The redacted report will go to Congress and to the public Thursday morning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fact that they are unwilling to release everything shows a consciousness of guilt.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Democrats believe the president's financial transactions hold the keys to some of the unanswered questions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota on John Berman.

HARLOW: All right, top of the hour. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your new day. It is Tuesday, April the 16th, 8:00 a.m. out here on the east coast. John and Alisyn are off. I'm Poppy Harlow here with my good friend John Avlon. And we have a lot of news.

We are getting a look at the extent of the devastation of Paris's historic Notre Dame Cathedral after the catastrophic fire. The French interior ministry says some weakness has been identified in the structure, that's a big deal. Several neighboring buildings have been evacuated in Paris today. Take a look at this, before and after images from inside of the Notre Dame, the now blackened cathedral, but look what is shining still, the crucifix standing illuminated amid the destruction. That blaze is now extinguished, and investigators are looking into what exactly caused it. France's president has pledged to rebuild the iconic cathedral, and millions of dollars have already been raised and pledged by private citizens to do so and to restore Notre Dame to its full glory.

JOHN AVLON, CNN ANCHOR: Flames erupted Monday evening and quickly engulfed the gothic architectural masterpiece. Some 500 firefighters battled the flames, saving it from collapse. They watched in horror as the cathedrals iconic spire toppled, falling through its wooden roof. Crowds gathering, singing hymns as they watched this powerful symbol of Catholicism and France itself go up in flames. This morning the Paris fire brigade says that the stone construction of the cathedral has been saved along with many of the church's most hallowed relics. CNN's Melissa Bell live outside of Notre Dame with the very latest. Melissa?

MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: John, as we watched this fire engulf Notre Dame yesterday, no one amongst the crowds imagined that as much it would remain intact this morning. It is almost miraculous, really, that so much of the stone structure has survived. And we've been hearing from France's interior minister who has been saying it was a question of about half an hour. If the fire had lasted any longer than it did, then the structure, no doubt, would have been more badly damaged than it is. Some vulnerabilities he noted, but overall it stands solid.

I'd just like to show you quickly, John, this iconic facade. You can see there so much of what makes Notre Dame one of the architectural wonders of the world, those stained-glass windows, that rose as it's called on the front, the gargoyles at the top, the status, the gothic architecture, the flying buttresses that you can't see from this particular viewpoint.

But when this cathedral was built, when its building began in the 12th century it was then an architectural wonder, really exploring areas that buildings simply hadn't thus far, and all of these centuries it survived intact. So a great deal of relief in Paris this morning. Many crowds gathered once again, they, too, wanting to inspect the damage of their beloved cathedral. And a good deal of relief not only that the overall structure remains sound this morning, but also that so much of what mattered to the Catholics in particular who gathered here yesterday was saved. Human chains were formed by policemen, firemen overnight, and they managed to get out those precious relics, so important to the faithful.

HARLOW: Absolutely. That's remarkable, just 30 minutes and the difference that that can all make.

With us now is our colleague Max Foster, CNN anchor and correspondent. Max, 30 minutes has made such a difference, and as Melissa Bell said, almost a miracle that as much is still standing as is.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: It is. I've been really struck, though, is by the reaction really of the public. I was up there where Melissa was on the other side of the cathedral, to come down to this position, and it took forever. People thronging the streets, a real standstill on those pavements, the police doing what they can to try to control people, but people are just staring at the cathedral.

And what's interesting is usually around the cathedral it's mainly tourists, particularly this time of day, but on this occasion it's mainly French people, and they are overwhelmed by the international reaction, actually. They can't believe so many international journalists are here, so many tourists have come down and feel the same way.

[08:05:03] They didn't realize, I don't think, the place that Notre Dame had in the international perspective really and this international reaction and this international reaction we've had from it, world leaders as well. So quite overwhelming. What I would say is last night it felt sad and we felt worried. Today actually felt quite hopeful. There have been some political upheaval in this country in recent times, and it's fascinating to see how this building has managed to unite them in some way.

HARLOW: It's a great point.

AVLON: It is. And sometimes these kinds of tragedies can unite. And that image, I can't get over that now iconic image of the crucifix still shining amid the wreckage last night. That's an image that will inspire. It is about the resilience of faith during holy week. I think that image is going to do a lot of work in the days and months and years to come.

HARLOW: And Max, can you just expound on that a little bit in terms of what you're seeing on the streets there? Because we don't have the advantage of being with the Parisians this morning. Macron was supposed to give a speech yesterday about the protests and about all of the upheaval in Paris.

FOSTER: Absolutely.

HARLOW: And I'm just wondering how different it feels this morning. Of course, it doesn't do away with what their facing, I should just note that, but still, is there a coming together?

FOSTER: A real coming together. The yellow vest movement has been quite violent at times, we saw the Arc de Triomphe, another icon of French architecture, attacked recently. And what we're seeing is a huge amount of social and political division in this country, people are fighting each other openly on the streets. But this building because it's been there so long, because people associate with it, because it's sacred for Catholics, because Napoleon was crowned here, because it was part of the Revolution as well, all that time ago, everyone can attach to it in some way. And it was really interesting to see the French president come down

here, highly divisive. Around the world he is seen as quite a charismatic popular figure. In this country he's very divisive. But actually what he managed to do yesterday was connect with the public, but not just part of the public, his constituency, all sorts of different communities, and everyone thought he did a good job, which is an incredibly hard thing to do as you can imagine.

But that's been very uniting for the country in itself, and the world is engaged in this story. We don't know why, not everyone knows what the cathedral looks like, but they do know the name, and I think that's the thing really.

AVLON: Max, stay with us. I want to bring in Michel Picaud, the president of the Friends of Notre Dame, a Paris organization established in 2016 to raise money for the renovation of Notre Dame Cathedral. Thank you very much for joining us, sir. This must be particularly painful for you given the work you had been doing to restore. What seems to have gone wrong?

MICHEL PICAUD, PRESIDENT, FRIENDS OF NOTRE DAME DE PARIS: I think, as you know, the cathedral was already in a bad state before this fire, and so this is why we have launched this program of restoration with large fundraising all across the world, not only in France but also in the U.S. and all over the world. So we have started with a program of restoration. Thanks to this spending, and actually the first part of the program was restoration of the spire of the cathedral. We had even last week taken down the 16 monumental statues that adorn actually the spire. And now suddenly in a few hours we make a step backward, so we will have much more to do to restore the cathedral.

AVLON: The fire battle itself, which we'll learn more about, is so extraordinary, the work that was done in these incredibly difficult conditions. Mr. Picaud, I want to read a quote to you from a New York City deputy fire chief, named Vincent Dunn, who remarked in his analysis of the fire itself and the recovery, quote, "These cathedrals and houses of worship are built to burn. If they weren't houses of worship they would be condemned." Was that an additional hurdle for you to face in addition to the heroic work of the firefighters yesterday?

PICAUD: I cannot talk about the fire battle because it was led by the firefighters here in Paris. What I can tell you that effectively one of the peculiarities of this cathedral is the fact that it's not only a monument but it's also a place of worship for the believers. So I think this is what makes it unique, actually.

HARLOW: You know, Max, Victor Hugo famously wrote a lot of things, one of them about Notre Dame, is that he called it a vast symphony in stone, right? Can you just speak to us about the importance of the structure that remains, a work of art itself, and then also the relics that were saved from the tunic, the robe, dating back to Louis the 13th, to the Crown of Thorns.

[08:10:05] FOSTER: A lot of people say --

PICAUD: Actually, the --

FOSTER: It's also so well-known and people know the brand everywhere. So it's something that everyone can relate to. It is this huge stone structure, which is why I think people feel quite shocked that it could be vulnerable. When you walk past it, it's so huge, so vast. You walk inside, it's got these vaulted ceilings. You are meant to be looking up to God. It doesn't look vulnerable. But it was vulnerable today, but ultimately that was the feeling last night. Today it's still standing, as you can see. And then we heard that these key relics inside were saved. So the splinters from the cross that Jesus was meant to have been crucified on, also the Crown of Thorns. For Christianity, for Catholics here, these are true sacred relics, and they were saved. And there is some heroism there, someone went in to find them.

HARLOW: Yes.

FOSTER: And we also learned today that actually the one person that knew where the safe was apparently was in a different part of Paris, they couldn't contact him immediately, so they were scrambling around in the flames to try to find it, which is incredible. So true examples of heroism today.

But also let's remember, only two people were injured, they were a policeman and a fireman. And to consider that that whole incredible church was full shortly before the fire broke out, it's an amazing example of survival, not just for the church, but also for the people of Paris.

HARLOW: Absolutely.

AVLON: It's just to see the edifice, the front still stands, but to see that empty space behind.

HARLOW: So let's take a look at this, here is some new video just into CNN of the restoration work that was going on last month. So this is there in the tower, and that's what they call the forest.

AVLON: The forest. And these are, and I believe, Michel, it's called the forest because each of these timbers are not only centuries old, but in some cases taken from whole trees. And that seems to have been what ignited, is that correct?

PICAUD: It's correct, yes. So actually, we call it the forest because it was made of 1,400 oak trees from the forests taken in the middle ages, and this is what burned yesterday, and this is a pity to have lost this forest.

HARLOW: It is indeed. I will tell you, sir, Michel, that we've learned this morning that one of the wealthiest if not the wealthiest family in France, the Arnault family, has pledged some 200 million euros to this process, and I hope many, many more contributions of that size follow this and are extremely helpful to you and those who will rebuild. And we know it will take a long time.

Thank you so much, sir. And, again, we're so sorry for the loss for you personally, for Paris, for the world, and we look forward to seeing the restoration. Thank you. And, Max Foster, great reporting on the ground, thank you.

PICAUD: Thank you very much.

HARLOW: Hope. There's hope amid tragedy.

AVLON: The resilience of hope. That's what holy week is all about.

HARLOW: There you go. It's just the fact that this happened in Easter week. Wow.

People across the globe heartbroken, of course, by this fire that ravaged Paris' Notre Dame Cathedral. We'll have more on this historic symbol of Paris, next.

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[08:17:04] AVLON: When you take a look at those photographs from the overview of the fire last night, you really get a sense of the scope of this fire and the way that the stone structure exterior stands, but the internal, the roof, entirely gone. If you look closely, you can see the individual timbers of what was called the forest, whole oak trees dating back centuries that really seems to have been where the fire emanated.

Take a look at this video and you see this was taken a month or so ago as part of the restoration effort to show the work that was being done and it seems that this is the space where the inferno ignited. These are these ancient oaks, the forest, that are gone today. It's an extraordinary look inside Notre Dame Cathedral which today lies in ruins.

Joining us now, Ian Bremmer, president of the Eurasia Group, to talk about this and the geopolitical implications because it comes at a time when France has been so bitterly divided and this is such in some ways a metaphor for that division, the assault on the country, but also potentially a unifying moment for the nation.

IAN BREMMER, PRESIDENT, EURASIA GROUP: Well, you know, Paris has been burning every weekend since November. This has been an absolutely horrifying year for this country, it's been incredibly divided.

The Yellow Vests, the gilets jaunes, have been out and have been so upset with the direction that the country has been going with, the direction of the leadership under President Emmanuel Macron. Now, just yesterday,. we see one of the most iconic structures in the world burning in Paris, but not an act of arson, not an act of terrorism, we think, an act of restoration that went wrong, and Macron has the ability to bring the country together.

And these yellow vests who were going to organize the biggest demonstration they had hoped since November because it was a response to what was meant to be Macron's big speech, the result of his grand debates where he went around the country to hear what the people's concerns were, and he was going to put a big policy agenda out that the Yellow Vests had already said they rejected and they were going to come out and be violent this weekend.

Now, they will either the appropriate thing not march this weekend for the first time since November the streets will be quiet, the country will come together after what was a magnificent speech by the president, or they will march in small numbers and there will be backlash. And that's a big deal.

AVLON: Yes.

HARLOW: So a fire, a tragedy, does not heal the wounds of those who are protesting for more, you know, economic liberty, et cetera. It doesn't change their lives, but what it can do is remind them of a commonality.

BREMMER: Sure.

HARLOW: Right? And the commonality of being French and the commonality of what this represents beyond, you know, just the Catholic and the Christian faith. Do you believe that it will do that or will it be a band-aid and maybe there won't be protests this weekend, but a month from now we will be back to where we were yesterday before this?

[08:20:09] BREMMER: You know, I think it's going to matter. The fact that Macron had already -- his approval ratings had bounced a bit because he was listening.

This is not the least self-confident guy we have seen occupy a head of state stage in France. He leaned in when he won, having created his own party and he said, I've got all the solutions.

The whole point of the last couple months was a listening tour, was a recognition that when decided to up the petrol taxes in France that that was kind of deaf. That he was hurting the people that, you know, weren't taking taxis every day, that lived farther away from the cities, they couldn't afford the easy -- he needed to listen.

HARLOW: I'm just glad that you say that because it's the outskirts of Paris. We have learned from French media that Macron is having a call with the pope today. It's the outskirts of Paris where there this economic disparity, it's not the Paris that the tourists know.

I mean, that's what is being addressed here as well in all of this.

BREMMER: I think what we saw yesterday and it reminded you of "Charlie Hebdo" when everyone was like we are all French today and that then lasted for a bit, but now, of course, you get this sort of political headline and everybody marches into their corners respectively. France was not like that yesterday. France -- yesterday was, oh, my god, this structure that all of us care so much about and it's still standing, but it's not going to be like it was. It's going to be a generation or more.

And I think the fact that that matters to the French, that culture matters, that nation matters to them, no matter what class you're from, is important. AVLON: I think especially at a time when questions of national

identity are what's at stake, the sense that the nation state is fraying, that liberal democracy is under assault and that this cathedral which has been a witness to so much history can once again reunite the nation in this indelible moment and that Macron seems to have timed -- the timing seems precipitous. It's really fascinating to see whether the Yellow Vests keep going out there or whether Macron steps up and continues that more inclusive approach and contrast to his early days.

Knowing Macron, knowing the kind of figure he is, do you think that's likely, that he will continue to seize the opportunity to reunite the nation around this moment?

BREMMER: I think it's possible, but he definitely has -- this is a real opportunity. The Yellow Vests do not stand for anything, they are leaderless, they stand against things, right? And that's been the attitude.

Macron has the ability with Notre Dame as an incredible symbol can stand for something. If that becomes the beginning of an architecture of a larger plan, we know that the Yellow Vests are not going to perform well in European parliamentary elections coming up next month, Macron looks like he will actually have a little wind in his sails here.

If he can take yesterday's speech and take some of the national French will to ensure that this gets rebuilt, and he is in front of it, he's going to have some time to undo the damage that was largely self- imposed over the last couple of years of his presidency.

HARLOW: I just had a thought. When you think about the Arnault family who has pledged $200 million, of course, they owned and built LVMH.

BREMMER: LVMH, yes.

HARLOW: You talk about giving from the wealthiest to help in a moment of need and part of what is fraying France is the growing income disparity and income gap. I don't know, I wonder if there is something of that. I'm not talking about a redistribution of the wealthiest money across, but do you know what I'm saying, a moment of giving back more than just to a structure, but a moment of seeing each other as more similar than different.

BREMMER: Well, the symbolism who is going to get the jobs to do the reconstruction, obviously, Macron you're going to make sure that that is done in a way that is useful and fruitful and builds bridges where there were divides.

Let's be clear, in France it's not just about income inequality, it's also about a civilization divide and immigration and that's going to be tougher here. There are about 6 percent of the French population is actually Muslim. When you ask the French how many Muslims they think are in the country they say a quarter, a third, right? You're not rebuilding that tomorrow, but the point is that if Macron can be seen as a leader, as someone that is bringing hope, is trying to unify, is trying to reconstruct, then I think that that's a big step forward for them.

AVLON: And the poetry of this grand cathedral being something that symbolically might be able to reunite the nation again and solidify that fragile sense of a nation state.

BREMMER: Let's be clear, if it was burned to the ground, this would feel different. They can still see the structure. They can still feel like this is something -- we can be France again.

HARLOW: Yes.

BREMMER: That's kind of the way we feel in this country, too, right? It's not over. We're going through a tough time.

And in tough times, in periods of adversity that's when we actually see what human beings are really made of.

[08:25:02] HARLOW: Yes, and we've been through worse and France has been through worse.

BREMMER: Absolutely.

AVLON: Absolutely.

HARLOW: Nice to have you.

AVLON: Thank you, Ian.

All right. The Justice Department says it will release the redacted version of the Mueller report on Thursday morning. What will it reveal and what it will not be able to see. We will discuss that with an all star panel, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AVLON: The Justice Department says it will release Attorney General William Barr's redacted version of Robert Mueller's report on Thursday morning. The White House insists it will do little to change the public opinion.

Joining us now, Jeff Toobin, former federal prosecutor and CNN chief legal analyst, and Bianna Golodryga, CNN contributor.

It is great to have you both here.

A lot coming down the pike in the next couple days.

HARLOW: Yes.

AVLON: Bianna, let me begin with you. What are you looking for? What are the open questions you really want and need to see answered from the report? BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, clearly, what's redacted and

what isn't redacted, right? That's going to be the first thing to look for. Also, the involvement of family members, Don Jr. in particular and the Russia meeting, really want to focus in on what happened with regard to any Russia relations over the course of not only the two-year span but obviously during the campaign and leading up to it.

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