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Nine-Hour Fire Devastated Notre Dame Cathedral; Sudan's Military Commanders Are Now Under Increasing Pressure To Step Down; Reuters Reporters In Jail For Well Over A Year In Myanmar Win Pulitzer Prize. Aired: 8-9a ET

Aired April 16, 2019 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We heard the tower fall.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A horrible, horrible tragedy for this city.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: French officials still assessing the extent of the damage to Notre Dame Cathedral.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just not a piece of architecture. There are memories there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What caused the fire? We're still trying to find out.

EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT (Through a translator): We will rebuild this Cathedral. We will rebuild Notre Dame.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I am Will Ripley in Hong Kong, in for Kristie Lu Stout. Welcome to NEWS STREAM.

Hard to believe not even 24 hours have passed since a fire devastated one of Europe's most iconic structures. And already money for its

reconstruction is pouring in.

Paris City Hall will foot part of the bill, but a number of French billionaires and companies and families are also donating hundreds of

millions of dollars. These images really do give you a sense of just the breathtaking immense reconstruction that will be needed.

The fire was massive. It was frightening for people to look at. We've received these images just a short time ago. You can actually look inside

now, the Cathedral and as much devastation as you see, they are also remarkably intact in some areas.

The roof is damaged, but sunlight is streaming in. The woodwork, the masonry also burned, but the stained glass appears intact. And remember,

they still don't have a clear sense of exactly what the situation is inside because they're not sure if it's safe to enter the building. They don't

know if it's stable yet.

French President Emmanuel Macron is praising firefighters for their valiant efforts. He says that France will launch an international fundraising

campaign to rebuild Notre Dame. The French Culture Minister, he talked about exactly what was damaged.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANCK RIESTER, FRENCH CULTURE MINISTER (Through a translator): There are three important large holes with the collapse that took place of the spire

yesterday, as well as the transept and at the end of the night, the transept of the vaults of the northern transept. And so we are very

mobilized, together with the firefighters of Paris to try and define the best possible measures to protect the areas that are threatened, including

the northern transept and parts of the southern belfry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIPLEY: Notre Dame is one of the world's most famous, most iconic, gothic Cathedrals and it is one of the most recognized buildings in the world.

The 850-year old structure sits on the ruins of two older churches. It has been at the heart of French history and it has suffered great damage during

the French Revolution.

As you can see from all of these sketches and photos, it is known for its beautiful stained glass windows, and of course those gargoyles poised on

the outside of the facade.

Paris Firefighters say that the fire is out right now. But experts are being called in because they need to examine the structure itself. They

need to figure out whether it's safe for firefighters and investigators to go inside. And we know that this is dangerous work that they're doing.

Already two police officers and a firefighter have been injured. And to think that this happened just six days before Easter Sunday, what is

supposed to be a time of gratitude and reflection and peace for Christians. CNN's Melissa Bell shows us these images of an icon up in flames, images

that shook not just the faithful, but many people around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Daybreak in Paris, bringing the first images of the badly-damaged Notre Dame Cathedral after a fire

ripped through the beloved Catholic landmark, stunning the city and the world.

CNN obtaining this exclusive look inside the burnt-out cathedral. A fire hose running. Embers still falling from the ceiling. Rubble scattered

across the floor and an apparent hole in the roof.

In one picture, candles still burning from where visitors left them before the fire began. This haunting image showing smoke surrounding the altar

and its cross illuminated and seemingly intact. Rose of wooden pews and much of the nave appears to have survived.

The image: a stark contrast to the architectural masterpiece that stood just hours before. Flames first seen leaping from the Cathedral's wooden

roof just before 7:00 p.m. local time. Police say the fire began in the attic and spread across the Cathedral's wooden roof, known as the forest

because of how many trees it took to build it. The Cathedral's rector tells CNN that the entire roof structure is destroyed.

The inferno filling the city sky with smoke and ash that rained down on thousands of onlookers who'd gathered on the street stunned as the blaze

gained strength.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We turned around and looked back, and gasped, and saw the spire. We watched as the rest of Paris watched in silent shock, as

these flames just grew and spread across the roof.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BELL (voice over): Sirens echoing through the silence as the fire engulfed the Cathedral's iconic spire. The 300-foot-tall structure eventually

collapsing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We heard the tower fall, and it was the worst sound. And people screamed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:05:10] BELL: Nearly 400 firefighters battling the blaze, working to save what was left of the iconic structure and the treasured artifacts

inside.

Paris's Mayor tweeting that many of the priceless pieces, including the Crown of Thorns and the tunic of St. Louis were recovered successfully.

Firefighters also managing to save Notre Dame's iconic facade and bell towers.

French President Emmanuel Macron emotional as he visited the historic Cathedral.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT (Through a translator): So I say this very solemnly to you tonight. We will rebuild this Cathedral together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BELL: With night falling, the crowd turning their heartache into hymns. Some onlookers mourning. Others on their knees praying, honoring the

Cathedral, a part of the city's core for close to nine centuries.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RIPLEY: The history just extraordinary. I want to bring in someone who knows Notre Dame well, our senior international correspondent, Jim

Bittermann in Paris.

Jim, what is the mood there? And what do we know about the investigation and the lack, apparently of a fire protection system?

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Will, I think the mood is one of the great sadness and dismay, a disbelief, I

think, you know, it's such an icon, something that's there on the horizon, you just don't expect to see it disappear like it has or at least part of

it disappear.

And that is of course going to be the subject of the question -- the question you asked there, the subject of the investigation is exactly why

did this file propagate so quickly? And why wasn't there are more prevention taken ahead of time.

In fact, the rector of the Cathedral said this morning that fire inspectors went through the Cathedral every single day to look for exactly this kind

of thing or prevent this kind of thing. However, there was no sprinkler system involved. And so as a consequence, when the fire did break out, the

inspectors weren't there at that exact moment.

In fact, it spread throughout there, what Melissa just described as the forest that is supporting beams in the roof very, very quickly. These are

beams, some of them, hundreds of years old, and so they went up in flames very quickly.

So, Will, these are questions that are going to be addressed. And I think we're going to see as a reconstruction program starts exactly to what

extent they're going to be able to save parts of the Cathedral that maybe they can build on for later reconstruction -- Will.

RIPLEY: Jim, so many people around the world feel such a personal connection to Notre Dame, and I know everybody will be watching closely to

see how this investigation unfolds. We appreciate your live report from Paris.

I want to turn now to Karen Archer, Deputy Director for Strategic Development and Communications at the French Heritage Society, who also

joins me now live from Paris.

Hi, Karen. It's good to have you with us. And I know that we still don't know at this stage, the full extent of damage inside the Cathedral. But

based on what we do know, right now give us a sense of the magnitude of this fire, what's been lost, and more importantly, perhaps what's been

saved?

KAREN ARCHER, DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR STRATEGIC DEVELOPMENT AND COMMUNICATIONS, FRENCH HERITAGE SOCIETY: Well, actually, I'm quite relieved. Yesterday

what I saw on television, there was still well into the night a question about whether or not the Cathedral itself could be saved.

So looking at it today, we see that the roof is gone. But the structure itself is still standing. So there's -- I think it's a very hopeful sign

in terms of being able to eventually rebuild once we know the extent of the damage.

RIPLEY: As you look back at the more than 850 years of history for this extraordinary Cathedral and all that Notre Dame has survived -- World War,

vandalism, neglect -- how does this compare?

ARCHER: Actually I think this is the most extensive damage that it's ever suffered in its history. I think prior to this, it was during the French

Revolution, but in that time mainly the statues of Kings et cetera were decapitated. So there was damage, but it was more superficial.

And then of course, there was a major restoration in the 19th Century with this fire which collapsed yesterday which was Viollet-le-Duc. So this is

what I think without doubt the most extensive damage the Cathedral has ever suffered in its history.

RIPLEY: The age of the wooden roof, combined with the apparent lack of a fire protection system was really described as a nightmare scenario for the

firefighters who did such an excellent job to save what they could.

Given what we have seen happen in Paris, should other historic houses of worship, take note and perhaps take action.

ARCHER: I think they really should, because Paris - the city of Paris itself owns almost a hundred churches, and many of them are in a state of

disrepair.

[08:10:04] ARCHER: It is an urban city, so oftentimes they're very close to houses and other buildings. So it's an ongoing problem. It is frankly,

a question of resources.

RIPLEY: Karen, talk to me about Notre Dame and the personal connection that Parisians have and people around the world have to this Cathedral.

ARCHER: Yes, when we speak of Notre Dame, it's really the heart of Paris. It's not just the location, but it's really what -- it's the living force

of the city. You can't conceive of Paris without Notre Dame, and even France. But beyond that, it represents that too many people around the

world.

At French Heritage Society, we raise funds for historic preservation, and many of our donors are Americans. And they have an affinity as if they

were from Paris when they come to Notre Dame. It really belongs to humanity.

RIPLEY: Karen Archer with the French Heritage Society, I know you have been watching as so many of us have been watching very closely and it's

good to hear that you're feeling more optimistic this morning that many of the historic relics have been saved, we appreciate your time.

ARCHER: Yes, yes.

RIPLEY: Thank you. You're watching NEWS STREAM and still to come, we're going to go back to Paris for the latest on that massive fire the

devastated the 850-year-old Notre Dame Cathedral and the millions -- hundreds of millions already being pledged to restore it.

Plus protests around the clock in Sudan, even though Omar al Bashir is out of power, we will tell you about the new deadline facing the military.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We watched as the rest of Paris watch in silent shock as these flames just grew and spread.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So globally, a symbol of Paris just go up in flames like that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is going to take a little while to realize what we lost.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

RIPLEY: The thoughts and words from just some of the people who witnessed yesterday's devastating fire at Notre Dame Cathedral. French officials are

investigating the cause of that fire. Experts will be assessing the stability of the structure, and they need to safeguard they say, the towers

and also the relics inside.

Notre Dame is known for so many treasures within these historic walls that are nearly 900 years old. It houses several religious relics, including

what's called the Crown of Thorns, which some believe is from the crucifixion of Jesus, and also a piece of what is said to be the original

cross.

It has several stunning stained-glass windows that depict the lives of saints including St. Genevieve, the Patron Saint of Paris; and the great

pipe organ of the Cathedral, perhaps one of its most famous fixtures dates back to the 17th Century. A Paris City Hall spokespersons says incredibly

despite the fire, it's in good condition.

Our next guest is no stranger to Paris and knows more than most, just about anyone probably just how important this Cathedral is not just to Paris, but

really the entire world.

[08:15:10] RIPLEY: Following the fire, I want to read you a tweet from Rick Steves Rick said, "It's heartbreaking to imagine the faith of the

people who built this great stone wonder. They broke ground in 1163 with the hope that someday their great, great, great, great, great, great

grandchildren might attend the dedication mass 200 years later."

Rick is a leading authority on European travel and the host of the radio program, "Rick Steves' Europe," and he joins me now from another iconic

European capital, Rome. Hi, Rick. That tweet of yours. It really does speak to the extraordinary history of Notre Dame. And this event now

becomes a part of that history.

RICK STEVES, RADIO HOST, RICK STEVES' EUROPE: Yes, Will, when you've traveled you really gain an appreciation that here in Europe, people are

very closely in touch with their heritage and their history. There's so much history, so much culture. And it's amazing to think, I'm here in

Rome. I mean, the buildings surrounding me now means a lot to the local people.

And in Paris, of course, the Notre Dame is like the needle around which Paris spins geographically, culturally, historically and religiously. And

for eight centuries, this has been the stage upon which life in Paris has played out.

And, you know, now it's had this this tragic event and people are reminded how important these are for people's patrimony for their heritage, and

they'll certainly muster the energy to repair it and the role that Notre Dame plays for Paris and for France and for Western civilization will carry

on -- Will.

RIPLEY: Everything about Notre Dame has a remarkable story, even the roof. What are some of your favorites?

STEVES: Well, to me to think that eight centuries ago, countless people basically dedicated their lives to wheel barrowing stones, cutting stones

and stacking stones and building a sacred place of worship that they knew would not be completed in their lifetimes.

I mean, it took 200 years to build it and that sort of commitment to who they were and what was important. And it's been just that for eight

centuries. I mean, this is the place of coronations. This is the place of all sorts of history and gatherings in Paris. And of course, Paris is in a

lot of ways the capital of Europe.

RIPLEY: What are you most worried about right now in terms of what we know, was destroyed, in terms of what cannot be rebuilt or replaced?

STEVES: Well, thankfully, structurally, it sounds like the Notre Dame is okay. And we've got to remember these are stone skeletons with wooden

framework connecting the stone structure. Gothic is like a skeleton of stone with the pointed arches and all of this very, very impressive

interplay of architectural forces, and then it's filled in with wood and glass.

And when we think about these Gothic European cathedrals, remember, we stand inside and we look up at the vaults, that there's 30, 40, 50 feet

between the ceiling and the roof. And that would be afforced of timbers. And in the case of a gothic cathedral, those timbers or 600 or 700 or 800

years old, and that's, in a lot of ways a fire just waiting to happen.

And there's been a lot of tragic fires in great cathedrals around Europe, I have no doubt that they'll muster the resources to rebuild this -- people

of faith and people that that just see it as a historic and important monument for the culture of France. They'll get it together and rebuild

Notre Dame and I would bet, a hundred years from now, Notre Dame will mean the same thing to Parisians than it is today and when they tell the

sweeping story of the Notre Dame Cathedral, it'll just have one more chapter in that story and that will be the fire back in 2019 -- Will.

RIPLEY: And you know, we're hearing that the work could take decades to repair everything that was lost in such a short amount of time. Finally,

Rick, speak to us about the significance of Cathedral not just in Paris, but also the world.

STEVES: Will, the fact that, Will, that people would spend decades rebuilding it, it's really not impressive to me. I mean, that's the

standard operating procedure for buildings of this importance. I think at the United States, we want it right now. You know, we do it for the next

election cycle, or we do it for the quarterly profit statement.

But these buildings are built -- they're built for the heritage. They're built for the legacy. They're built from now on out. And to me, that's a

celebration of culture. That's one reason I'm so inspired by and charmed by culture here in Europe. And you know, this this church is an important

cultural monument, it is an important religious monument. It's symbolic in so many ways of the story of the French people. It's part of who they are.

[08:20:03] STEVES: And there's no question to me that we tend to look at things in a quick right now crisis point of view. But this is a tragedy,

it might take 20 years to fix, but it will be fixed. That's the good news, it will be fixed.

And from my experience, nobody ever built a great cultural edifice in Europe and regretted the resources it took to build it. Europe is rich

with this kind of culture and rich with this kind of commitment to who people are. And it is one reason why I've been able to spend a big part of

my life just celebrating the story of Europe, and we can celebrate the resilience of Europe and we can celebrate the resilience of the Notre Dame

in Paris, I'm sure -- Will.

RIPLEY: Rick Steves, that's a great way to end this interview on a positive note from someone who knows Europe and Notre Dame very well.

Rick, thank you. A windy day there in Rome. We appreciate your time.

I want to turn now to the situation in Sudan; the military commanders who took power in that country last week, they now under increasing pressure --

pressure to step down.

As protest continue in the streets, African Union officials are condemning a military proposal for a transition period that could take two years. Now

they're calling on the Sudanese military to turn power over to a civilian government in just about two weeks.

CNN Senior International Correspondent Nima Elbagir is live in Khartoum. So Nima, what are you hearing on the ground there about this demand,

essentially, for 15 days and a hand over to a civilian government? Is that going to happen?

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what it's done is it's bolstered what the protesters said that they wanted all along,

which is a transition, a speedy transition to civilian rule, and they're backing out those demands, Will, with a swell in numbers, but I think it's

important for our viewers to know that alongside the persistence, there is also euphoria, a real joy when it comes to what they know that they have

already achieved.

We spent some time with the night shift protesters. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

ELBAGIR: Welcome to downtown Khartoum. It may look like things are clearing up here and people are going home. But actually what is happening

is that they're swapping shifts because the protestors here still will not leave this space unoccupied.

They're saying, "We are the generation that brought down Al-Bashir. And we're not going to be fooled."

This is Faja (ph). Faja was imprisoned three times. He was tortured. He was abused. And he's not the only one. Most of the young men sitting here

have been imprisoned.

How many here have been detained during the demonstrations? Everyone?

Can you hear that? We have been hearing sporadic gunfire for most of the night. It doesn't sound very far away. We spoke to some of the Army

officers, when we were coming in and they were saying that they have been exchanging fire with some remnants of the former regime's national

intelligence services.

What's that? What's over there?

We are trying to get up high to show you exactly how many people are here. It's completely extraordinary.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ELBAGIR: But beyond the music and the exuberance is of course, a very serious intent. And that is to stay in place until they are given what

they feel they deserve, which is free and fair elections -- Will.

RIPLEY: All right, Nima, we know you'll keep following of it. We appreciate those seeds of euphoria on the ground there in Sudan.

We return now to the most prestigious prize in American journalism and its effort to shine a spotlight on the plight of two journalists -- Reuters

reporters who have been in jail for well over a year in Myanmar.

Wa Lone and Kyaw Soe Oo won the Pulitzer Prize for International Reporting. This is for their courage in exposing a massacre of Rohingya Muslims in

Myanmar. They were then imprisoned for their work, a move widely criticized as an attempt by Myanmar's government to silence the press.

As CNN's Andrew Stevens tells us, Reuter says they appreciate the recognition, but they see the real focus should be on the Rohingya

themselves.

ANDRES STEVENS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Will, the crime these two journalists were charged with was exposing state secrets as they uncovered a shocking

story of a mass killing in Myanmar.

[08:25:05] STEVENS: The case was seen as a test of the progress Myanmar making towards democracy. Remember, this is a country where a former

democracy icon, Aung San Suu Kyi is now the de facto leader. But despite the renewed international attention, there's still no sign of the

government changing course.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEVENS (voice over): An explosive investigation into the killing of 10 men got these reporters thrown in jail. Now it's won them up a Pulitzer

Prize.

Wa Lone and Kyaw Soe Oo will celebrate twinning one of journalism's most prestigious awards from a cell in Myanmar's most notorious prison.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA CANEDY, PULITZER ADMINISTRATOR: And this year we are awarding a second prize in international reporting for expertly exposing the military

units and Buddhist villagers responsible for the systematic expulsion and murder of Rohingya Muslims from Myanmar.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEVENS (voice over): In late 2017, when Myanmar's military was in the midst of a brutal campaign against the Rohingya, the two Reuters

journalists journeyed to the heart of the violence.

At least 10,000 Rohingya Muslims have been killed, the U.N. says women raped and babies burned alive in Myanmar's far west. Claims the government

denies.

More than 700,000 refugees have fled to Bangladesh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONI SLODKOWSKI, MYANMAR BUREAU CHIEF, REUTERS: This was one of the stories that are seared in your mind and keep you awake at night.

Especially for Wa Lone who became almost obsessed with finding out the truth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEVENS (voice over): Their reporting focused on a killing of 10 men forced to dig their own grave then brutally stabbed, shot and even beaten

to death. It was the type of massacre that was being repeated across Rakhine State where Rohingya Muslims have long been persecuted. Horrors

the U.N. thinks may have included genocide.

And for the first time in Myanmar, the reporters were able to produce clear evidence of an atrocity. Evidence that led to a military tribunal and

censure for the soldiers found guilty of supervising the brutality.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SLOKOWSKI: It was an extraordinary field of investigative journalism. It includes one after another, stories from the people who actually did this.

And in some cases, we're actually very proud of what they've done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEVENS (voice over): But it wasn't just the soldiers that found themselves in prison. Police arrested Wa Lone and Kyaw Soe Oo in December

2017 and charged them with exposing state secrets. They were later found guilty and sentenced to seven years in prison.

As the world celebrates their courageous reporting, it's their young families that are most proud. But Kyaw Soe Oo's child is too young to

understand where her father is. One day, she'll know her father is a Pulitzer Prize winning reporter.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STEVENS: Heartbreaking for the families of those two reporters, obviously, and as the editor-in-chief of Reuters put it, he is thrilled that the two

have been recognized for their courageous reporting, but he remains deeply distressed that they are still behind bars -- Will.

RIPLEY: Andrew Stevens reporting for us. Thank you. You're watching NEWS STREAM and our coverage from Paris continues ahead.

Not just an icon of beauty and arts, but a symbol of Christianity and history. How the loss of this religious sanctuary is affecting Paris and

the world, next on NEWS STREAM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RIPLEY: I'm Will Ripley in Hong Kong and you are watching NEWS STREAM on this Tuesday. We continue to follow the situation in Paris, a city coming

to terms with the destruction of one of its most iconic landmarks. I want to show you a live image right now as the world expresses sympathy.

Shock after a fire devastated Notre Dame Cathedral on Thursday evening. In less than 24 hours, pledges have been pouring in, pledges to fund its

reconstruction, promises of hundreds of millions of dollars.

CNN's Melissa Bell joins me now from just outside the Notre Dame Cathedral where she has been on the ground with the crowds who are gathering to see

the facade pretty much intact. Melissa, what's the mood out there?

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, one of relief for many of the people who came out here expecting to see far worse. This was awful, Will,

a fire that raged for nine hours. It took 400 firefighters to get to the end of it. We watched those spectacular flames last night.

Everyone who was here, the many thousands of people who gathered to watch it fearing that the entire structure might be compromised. And yet, we've

just been hearing from France's Junior Interior Minister who says that in fact, it is remarkably solid. There are a few vulnerabilities to use his

word. But within half an hour, if the fire he said had lost it even half an hour longer than it did, the entire edifice might have been compromised.

But as you can see, I'm standing just next to it's a very famous front facade. You can see there the rose stained glass windows there intact.

The gargoyles, the gothic structure, the sculptures, the flying buttresses that you can't see from this particular angle, but so much of what makes

Notre Dame one of the architectural wonders of the world this morning intact.

So there is huge sadness, of course at what happened here last night, but also a sense that things could have been far worse than they were and the

heroes, the people who are responsible for that, and this is what the French President said, Will, when he came here last night, are of course,

the firemen who worked so hard overnight to bring this fire under control, at one point forming a human chain to get some of the precious artifacts,

the artwork, but also those precious relics so important to the faithful who gathered here last night out of the building and to safety.

RIPLEY: Oh, Melissa, I have to say, someone who has visited Paris and seen Notre Dame in person, I got goosebumps, as I'm sure many of our viewers did

to see the gargoyles still there and the facade intact and I'm sure it gives a lot of people great comfort and hope that this will be rebuilt and

things will be okay. We appreciate your live report there, Melissa in Paris, just outside the Cathedral. Thank you.

On the other side of the world, a YouTube feature designed to fight misinformation, well, it offered some of its own misinformation on Monday.

It linked the Notre Dame Cathedral fire to the September 11th terrorist attacks. The company blamed the mix up on its algorithms?

CNN's Donie O'Sullivan joins us now live from New York to explain. Donie, what happened?

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN POLITICS AND TECHNOLOGY REPORTER: Yes, Will, just to give you some background on this, we've been hearing for years now how

YouTube and other social media platforms are awash would misinformation.

Last year in 2018, YouTube tried to be proactive about that and they took a step by introducing these panels that they would place under videos, which

linked out to facts about subjects that are sometimes the sort of topic of misinformation and disinformation.

And at the time, they gave an example of the moon landing of the Oklahoma City bombing, you know, topics and events where there are tons of videos

out there by conspiracy theorists who are trying to mold the facts into whatever narrative that they're trying to play.

Yesterday that all went very wrong. As the world turned to watch Notre Dame burn, many thousands of people turned on YouTube and reputable news

outlets like NBC News, CBS News and France 24 we're streaming live coverage from Paris of the destruction.

[08:35:04] O'SULLIVAN: For the thousands of people that went to those streams, they would have seen a box directly under those videos with facts

about the September 11 terrorist attacks.

Now, these boxes weren't placed there by conspiracy theorists, but by YouTube itself. YouTube is of course blaming an algorithm, but it hasn't

explained to us how that mistake happens and how they'll prevent it from happening again.

RIPLEY: Wow, Donie O'Sullivan, obviously, you can see how people would have been very upset and confused to see that. Thanks for the explanation.

We appreciate it.

The word "volatile" barely begins to describe the ups and downs that Facebook went through and 2018, its slow response to privacy scandals such

as the one involving Cambridge Analytica really destroyed public confidence in the social networking giant, the behemoth seen by more than a billion

people every single day, Facebook's reputation still unable to recover to this day.

CEO Mark Zuckerberg pledged to quote "fix" Facebook that was early last year. But still, the hits just kept on coming. The heads of WhatsApp and

Instagram, they quit. The company was exposed for commissioning opposition research on their critic, George Soros in November.

And now there's this. A new story by "Wired" magazine takes a deep dive into what was happening behind the scenes. "Wired" editor-in-chief Nick

Thompson joins me now from New York. Nick, this reporting remarkably thorough, 12,000 words; you spoke with 65 current and former Facebook

employees. What's your biggest takeaway?

NICK THOMPSON, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, WIRED MAGAZINE: My biggest takeaway, I wrote the story with Fred Vogelstein at "Wired" and our biggest takeaway is

that the company had one of the most interesting, dramatic, chaotic, crazy years of any company I've ever looked into. They were dealing with scandal

after scandal. We tried to dig in, piece everything together figure out how the company was trying to fix itself, why it was succeeding, where it

was failing, and look at the little landmines they'd set for themselves in the past that blew up this year.

RIPLEY: I was fascinated to read about this apparent split between Instagram and Facebook, you compare it to the pupil surpassing the

professor.

THOMPSON: Yes, so what happened is the number of people using Facebook's core product, which they call the Blue App, had been declining. And the

number of people using Instagram, which Facebook had acquired and owns, had been growing.

And so inside of Facebook, there's a little bit of tension of are people leaving Facebook to go to Instagram; and in Instagram, they really hated

that line of thinking. They thought, "Wait, we are part of Facebook, too. Why would you be worried about people coming over here?" And led to a lot

of tension between the founders of Instagram and leadership at Facebook, and then as we reported, tension boiled over, and the two founders of

Instagram left in September of last year.

RIPLEY: Another really prominent point you mentioned is that Facebook was seemingly oblivious to the animosity that was building up with all of these

scandals and complaints and executives just sort of tone deaf following the same old playbook they've been using for years. Has the company learned a

lesson?

THOMPSON: Oh, I think the company has learned a lot of hard lessons in the last year. I do think the company is genuinely focused on fixing the flaws

in its product, fixing its public perception, changing its relationship to the news industry, changing its policies on privacy.

The problem is that nobody trusts Facebook anymore. Even when they tell the truth, everybody thinks they're lying. They also helped create a news

ecosystem that prioritizes outrage, and much of that outrage is now directed at Facebook.

And so they are in this really hard situation where the policies they had in the past created all of these nasty problems. There are really no easy

solutions. And in fact, many of the solutions are contradictory.

If you want to increase privacy, you also make it easier for hateful operators to work on the platform. If you want to try to knock out some of

the bad stuff on the platform, you kind of lose privacy. And so they're stuck in this really tough situation. They're not sure what to do. And

their history of dissembling and obfuscating has really come back to hurt them this year.

RIPLEY: And they still obviously have huge numbers for now. But based on everything that you've learned, everything that you heard through your

interviews, what is going to be out of all of that Facebook's greatest challenge as they move forward?

THOMPSON: Well, the biggest risk for them is that they end up in something of a trap, like what Microsoft had a decade and a half ago, where antitrust

regulators or other regulators just keep coming at them and they can't get out of it, where they're mired in regulation, where they're in court, where

they are testifying, where new bad stories continue to come out because of various forms of discovery and past information comes out and is

interpreted in the worst possible light.

So that's the risk and it's a real risk. And if that happens, they won't be able to innovate. It won't be an exciting place to work.

[08:40:10] THOMPSON: They'll have a harder time retaining employees. And if they're lucky, the best case scenario would be like Microsoft, they come

out positive on the other end. Their hope is that they get through this and sometimes it just starts to turn around. And it is certainly true that

that company still continues to make quite a bit of money.

RIPLEY: And yet you have a lot of young people who just aren't interested and think it's old fashioned. But anyway, a fascinating read, all 12,000

words of it, Nick, we can read it in "Wired," and we appreciate you being with us here in NEWS STREAM.

THOMPSON: Thanks so much for getting through it. Thanks for having me here. Good to see you.

RIPLEY: We're live in Hong Kong. You're watching NEWS STREAM. I want to take you back live to Paris next, where hope is pouring in along with

hundreds of millions of dollars.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RIPLEY: Okay, so here's the good news. The fire that consumed much of the Notre Dame Cathedral is out. French government officials are now saying it

could be 48 hours before the building is secure enough to go in and retrieve any remaining artwork, but they were able to save quite a bit.

Investigators trying to determine what caused the fire and many of course are mourning the damage, but they are also hopeful that it could have been

a lot worse and they recognize the Cathedral is not just a symbol of Catholicism, but of European culture and history.

And the really good news is that French billionaires and companies have been pledging hundreds of millions of dollars to the effort. You can see

some of the offers here. I mean, these are massive sums of money. Of course $225 million topping the list there.

In time, Notre Dame and the Paris skyline will be restored to its former glory that much is clear, but some of the history inside might be lost

forever. And the emotional scars the flames inflicted, they may never go away.

That is NEWS STREAM live from Hong Kong. I'm Will Ripley. Don't go anywhere, "World Sport" with Amanda Davies is next.

(SPORTS0

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