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Rep. Madeleine Dean (D-PA) On Release Of Mueller Report; John Hickenlooper Makes Case For Presidential Run; Three Key Questions For Attorney General William Barr. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired April 18, 2019 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:32:10] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: A redacted version of special counsel Robert Mueller's report will be made public in just hours, but only after Attorney General William Barr will hold a press conference. Democrats are crying foul.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JERRY NADLER (D-NY): The central concern here is that the Attorney General Barr is not allowing the facts of the Mueller report to speak for themselves, but is trying to bake in the narrative about the report to the benefit of the White House. This is wrong. It is not the proper role of the attorney general.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: All right. New this morning, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer are calling on Mueller -- Robert Mueller to testify now before Congress.

So joining us now is Democratic Congresswoman Madeleine Dean. She is a member of the House Judiciary Committee. Great to have you, Madeleine -- correct.

REP. MADELEINE DEAN (D-PA): Great to be with you.

CAMEROTA: Madeleine, correct?

DEAN: Madeleine.

CAMEROTA: Madeleine -- forgive me -- Madeleine. Thank you.

DEAN: Close enough.

CAMEROTA: OK, nice. Thank you very much.

So you want Bill Barr to cancel his press conference today?

DEAN: Absolutely. There is absolutely no reason why he would have a press conference. After all, today should be the release of the Mueller report, not the Barr press conference. There's absolutely no reason for the attorney general to preempt a

report that's not even out with a press conference. I'm wondering what the purpose of that is.

CAMEROTA: Well, one of the purposes is that -- or I mean, at least a byproduct is that reporters will be able to ask him questions. Isn't that valuable?

DEAN: Ask him questions about a report that hasn't been seen, that will be probably -- likely, be heavily redacted? I think we've got a lot of carts before the horse here. And actually, I really think there's no reason whatsoever for Attorney General Barr to be holding a press conference.

The American people and Congress have a right to see the full Mueller report. This was a 22-month investigation of Russia's interference in the 2016 election.

Attorney General Barr is late to the party and we don't need to see him in a press conference.

CAMEROTA: If you were at the press conference, do you have one burning question for him?

DEAN: Where's the full report?

CAMEROTA: Meaning the unredacted report?

DEAN: The unredacted report.

CAMEROTA: You know, "The Washington Post" is reporting that it will be lightly redacted. Does that give you some comfort?

DEAN: No, absolutely not.

We had a letter -- the Judiciary Committee had a letter from Attorney General Barr identifying four areas of redaction. It will be multi- colored, multi-coded. That is not how this works.

When this investigation concluded and the report was given over to the attorney general, the attorney general, in his own words when he testified before the Senate, said that he did not think it was in the public's best interest for him to summarize or chop up the report.

So, what has happened? In whose best interest is he working? What are they afraid of?

CAMEROTA: On of your colleagues -- one of your Republican colleagues on the Judiciary Committee had a rebuttal to all of this. So let me read to you what Congressman Doug Collins said yesterday.

[07:35:01] He said, "The only person trying to spin the report is Congressman Jerry Nadler. The A.G. has done nothing unilaterally. After partnering with Rod Rosenstein to share principal conclusions, Bill Barr is releasing the report voluntarily, working with Mueller's team step-by-step." Does that mollify some of your fears to know, if this is true, that he has been working hand-in-hand with Mueller's team?

DEAN: No. We have no idea who it is among Mueller's team that he has been working with. And we know that Mueller's team operated with great good faith with no leaks. But now you're starting to see the people who have worked on this are very disquieted by what's going on.

Let's remember something. This is an investigation of this administration and a tremendous number of people around this president have wound up prosecuted, convicted, serving time or about to serve time.

I think that what we're seeing is with Attorney Barr a confusion. He's not acting as the attorney general. In fact, he's acting, again, maybe like another fixer for the president -- like a president's attorney -- and that is not his role.

Again, I ask what is this administration afraid of. The president himself, in March, said let the people see the report. What are they afraid of? I think the president and the administration is acting out of a tremendous amount of fear.

CAMEROTA: But do you have any information one way or another if Mueller's team has been involved in this all along? If Mueller's team is involved in what the public will see today?

DEAN: No, I do not -- no.

CAMEROTA: "The New York Times" is reporting that Bill Barr has had several -- numerous conversations with the White House, briefing them on some level -- the lawyers -- the White House lawyers about what will be released today.

DEAN: Again --

CAMEROTA: What do you make of that?

DEAN: -- wholly inappropriate. Can you imagine -- I read that reporting as well and our committee has seen that reporting that over the course of the last at least a week, maybe more, that the White House and Attorney General Barr have been cooperating -- dare I say colluding.

It was the president himself who announced the attorney general's press conference today. What is that cooperation all about?

Again, I'd say that this is a lot of distraction and a lot of division in order for us, maybe this day before a couple of very important holy days in this country, to hope that the American people won't want to focus on this report.

But the Judiciary Committee will do its jobs. We're going to get the full report.

CAMEROTA: Well, let's talk about that. So what are Democrats' plans after today, after the report comes out? Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer have said that they want to hear directly from Robert Mueller. What's your next move?

DEAN: Well, we are in the majority and Chairman Nadler has the gavel and he also has subpoena power. So I am fairly confident that we will be subpoenaing Barr and Mueller -- we want to. And, Mueller, we may not need a subpoena.

We will need to hear --

CAMEROTA: You think he'll voluntarily come?

DEAN: I hope he will. I have a feeling he might. I think he's probably quite confident in his work and knows the role that Congress has to play in terms of oversight. So I feel confident that we will hear from Mr. Mueller and he is going to be the more important to hear from over Barr.

As I said, Barr just came to this party recently and apparently is in it to protect the president.

CAMEROTA: Congresswoman Madeleine Dean, thank you very much. Great to have you in-studio with us this morning.

DEAN: My pleasure, thanks.

CAMEROTA: Chris --

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right.

The man coming up is an unfamiliar face with a very unique name in a crowded field for the Democratic nomination. So, how can former Colorado governor John Hickenlooper stand out? He makes his case to you, next.

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[07:42:00] CUOMO: If you're keeping count, there are already 18 presidential candidates in the race for the Democratic nomination. There are all your faces and from the different places, including former Colorado governor John Hickenlooper. So, what will separate the governor from the pack?

Joining us now, Gov. Hickenlooper. It's good to see you.

JOHN HICKENLOOPER (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's nice to see you.

CUOMO: Former governor -- just got out in 2019.

So we were discussing before we came on, you have a unique background. You were a businessman, you were in Colorado's history in a pivotal time of the need to rethink how Denver would be, and one of the most ambitious things we've seen in terms of social programming in this country, which is what to do with legalizing marijuana.

What do you bring to the table nobody else does? HICKENLOOPER: Well, I am an entrepreneur who built a business from scratch, but I also -- eight years as a successful mayor, eight years as a successful governor.

The one thing I bring is that I've been able to bring people together and get things done. So I have a long record of progressive accomplishment with people that hadn't been -- they'd been feuding.

And I think that ability to, you know -- obviously, Democrats, we want -- we have to defeat Donald Trump, but I think I can bring us together on the other side and get stuff done.

CAMEROTA: One other thing that you tragically have experience with -- and again, it's in the news -- is the Columbine massacre. And again, we've just been reporting on it this morning.

It ended -- it ended, obviously, better than a massacre but in a tragic way. Probably a mentally ill woman made these threats. She has taken her own life.

You think that there is a solution for some of these things. What do you think is the way out of this horrible violent cycle that we're in?

HICKENLOOPER: Well, you look at yesterday in Denver. A half-million kids couldn't go to school and in a serious way they were terrorized. So once they got off the joy of not having to go to school they realized that they're at risk in school.

And I think there's a whole network -- a sequence of things we've got to do. Obviously, universal background checks have to become national. We got it passed in Colorado, the only purple state to actually achieve universal background checks and limiting the size of -- the capacity of magazines.

But I think we've got to go beyond that. We probably should be raising the age of certain gun purchases. We should be looking at how to do more training on gun safety and making sure that we have red- flag laws so that when someone's having a psychological issue they are -- I mean, some of this stuff -- we can't get this basic stuff passed, like universal background checks.

It's infuriating, right? It really -- I mean, over 90 percent of the American people -- of the American people believe in universal background checks and it's still not passed.

CUOMO: So let's roleplay a little bit. Let's say you were able to get the Democratic nomination. Now you're going to go toe-to-toe with one of the dirtiest fighters in modern history in politics, and I think the president would probably take that as a compliment.

So you know he's going to have fun with your name. But when he looks, he goes 'Well, that's the pot guy and he wants to legalize drugs.' We all know what that means. That is still going to be a raging debate within this country.

[07:45:09] And you have data that suggests a mix of results right now in Colorado. Probably to be fair, too soon to tell, but you have had concerns about crime and upticks in crime in Colorado.

How do you make the case on that basis because it's going to distinguish you?

HICKENLOOPER: Well, in the first case, I'd love to have that chance to take Trump on and I'd love to -- I mean, what's he going to say about my name that I haven't heard, right, that I didn't learn on the playground?

CAMEROTA: What rhymes with Hickenlooper?

HICKENLOOPER: Chicken cooper --

CAMEROTA: Oh, OK.

HICKENLOOPER: -- poopin' scooper.

CAMEROTA: Oh, I didn't know those.

HICKENLOOPER: You could go down the list. The name -- the name --

CAMEROTA: Thank you.

HICKENLOOPER: -- lends itself to that.

In terms of pot, I think the key with pot is to recognize that we -- you know, I opposed it in the beginning and our voters passed it 55 to 45. So I felt a constitutional -- you know, the State Constitution says that you've got to obey the will of the people, so we did everything we could to make it work and I think it is working.

We do a poll every two years of over 20,000 people and we can say with pretty much confidence that young people -- there is no spike in their consumption, right. The only increase in a demographic consumption is senior citizens. You can make your own conclusions from that.

But the bottom line is we haven't seen dramatic increases in driving while high. Most of the things we most feared haven't happened.

And I think that the federal government should delist it from the schedule one narcotics so we could do testing on it. We should get the FDI -- the FDA to look at really making sure that we're treating it as a -- or measuring it and testing it as a narcotic -- as a medicine that could help people.

Then the second thing you should do is make sure the Department of Agriculture is looking at what pesticides -- you know, are we doing anything that could be harmful to people.

And then let states, one-by-one, decide what they want. Sort of what we did when we repealed prohibition. The federal government didn't come and say alcohol is going to be available for everyone.

The federal government said states can choose. And within certain states, even to this day, some counties in Texas or Oklahoma still are dry counties. You can't get liquor there. CAMEROTA: The Mueller report comes out today. Your thoughts?

HICKENLOOPER: Well, I'd like to see transparency, right. The -- all the negotiating and the kind of twisting and turning, it makes everyone suspicious.

You know, when I talk about why I'm running for president, right, I'm running because we're in a crisis of division. We haven't been this divided since the Civil War, and I think that's true.

Part of it is all this suspicious behavior makes people break into their corners and everyone's either pro or con instead of just saying let's get the facts. Let's all, as a country, make a decision together. I mean, that's what the country really needs right now is to get -- begin getting stuff done.

CUOMO: What do you need to do to get it done within this field? You're going to have to deal with recognition. The early money numbers coming out aren't playing to your favor but it's early on.

What are you going to do to distinguish yourself?

HICKENLOOPER: I think I've got to demonstrate again and again to people that I have a record of accomplishment.

So we have almost universal health care in Colorado by expanding Medicaid and having a really innovative exchange.

We got the oil and gas industry to sit down with the environmental community and we addressed methane, 25 to, some people say, as much as 60 times worse than CO2 for climate change.

We got the oil and gas industry to pay $60 million a year. It's the equivalent of taking 320,000 cars a year off the road. But we got them to do that together by collaborating.

That's what America needs right now is to be able to get people together and actually get things done.

CAMEROTA: OK, Governor, lightning round. Here's the kicker. We've been doing this segment here on NEW DAY called "Candidate Mix Tape."

So, let's talk about music. What's your favorite music genre?

HICKENLOOPER: You know, I love kind of what they call roots or traditional music. It's the Old Crow Medicine Show, The Avett Brothers -- a lot of those. They've got banjos but they've also got electric bass and drums.

CAMEROTA: That's cool. Who's your favorite band or musician?

HICKENLOOPER: Oh, that's so hard to say. It depends on where I am.

I love local music when I can get to it. If I'm in New Orleans, I'm going to be excited about a different band than if I'm in Denver. Right now, there's a band in Denver called the Nathaniel Rateliff & The Night Sweats. They are awesome. They've got a horn section -- kind of a Memphis sound. They're breathtaking.

CAMEROTA: That's awesome. Thank you for educating us about this.

HICKENLOOPER: Oh, and The Lumineers. I mean --

CAMEROTA: The Lumineers are great.

HICKENLOOPER: They're a Denver band. We have all these great bands --

CAMEROTA: OK.

HICKENLOOPER: -- in Colorado. Colorado has become -- there are more live music venues in Denver now than there are in Nashville or Austin.

CAMEROTA: Get out of here.

HICKENLOOPER: Fact.

CAMEROTA: Governor Hickenlooper, great to have you here in-studio.

HICKENLOOPER: You bet.

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much.

HICKENLOOPER: Thank you.

CUOMO: Thank you, Governor.

CAMEROTA: Great to talk to you.

All right. Up next, our legal analyst, Elie Honig, is going to tell us the three key questions we all need to be thinking of today ahead of Mueller's report.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:53:57] CAMEROTA: All right, the clock is ticking. Attorney General William Barr will be holding a news conference about 90 minutes from now. What are the three key questions for him today?

Joining us now is CNN legal analyst Elie Honig, former federal prosecutor. He has thought about these three questions.

Elie, what is your first burning question for Attorney General Barr?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: So the first question I would ask the attorney general is does this report exonerate the president?

Now, Alisyn, this one's a little bit of a catch because we know the answer. We know that Robert Mueller has concluded that the report does not exonerate the president. Yet, Donald Trump has been out there declaring that it does totally exonerate him.

And so I want to test William Barr's independence and his credibility. Is he willing to give a direct, accurate answer -- 'no, this report does not exonerate the president' -- even if it might upset the president?

And, William Barr ought to not hide behind, 'Well, the report speaks for itself.' He's the one who is going behind that podium. He's the one who is giving us the image of transparency. He's the one who has the report, not us in the public.

And so, we will tell -- we will be able to tell very early on is this real transparency or is this just a show.

[07:55:04] CUOMO: All right, what about number two, national security? How so?

HONIG: Yes. So I would ask the president (sic) -- look, as the nation's chief law enforcement officer, do you have any security concerns about the contacts between Donald Trump and the Russians?

We know that Robert Mueller and William Barr have concluded there is not sufficient evidence to prove a criminal conspiracy beyond a reasonable doubt. That is the highest legal standard we have in our system.

But it does not mean that nothing happened. We know the Trump Tower meeting happened. We know there were all these contacts.

And so I would ask William Barr, as the chief law enforcement officer in the United States, even if there's not a crime here, do you see things that give rise to security concerns on your behalf? Do you have any concern whatsoever about all of the Russian contacts and about the lies that followed those contacts?

CAMEROTA: OK, Elie, this is hot off the presses. Chris and I have just been handed this bit of intel from our reporter, Jessica Schneider, about what his 9:30 press conference will actually be about.

So she has learned that the attorney general will address: 1) whether executive privilege was invoked, 2) the DOJ interactions with the White House in the past few weeks. That's something that Congress certainly would like to know. And, 3) his redaction process.

HONIG: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Does that change your third burning question for him?

HONIG: Yes, it does, Alisyn.

So let's go into process. Let's go into executive privilege. That should be a straight-up yes or no -- has anyone invoked executive privilege?

Another question that I have about redactions. One of the categories that Bill Barr said he'd be redacting for is information that might be embarrassing to peripheral third parties, as he phrased it.

Now, in his testimony last week, Bill Barr said I do not include the president in that. He's a public servant so I will not be sanitizing for him.

But the question I'd have is do you include Donald Trump, Jr.? Do you include Jared Kushner in that category? They're private citizens. Are you going to be making -- have you made redactions in order to protect their interests?

If so, then I think that's really a misstep. Those people are obviously accountable to the American public and they're close inner sanctum people. And if they -- if he has sanitized to protect those people then I think we've got a big problem.

CAMEROTA: That's how nimble you are, that you just added a question. But I know that you have -- before you got this intel, had a question about obstruction. What's the big question there?

HONIG: Yes. So, I want to know can reasonable prosecutors disagree about whether there is sufficient evidence for obstruction of justice?

We know that Robert Mueller and Bill Barr actually disagree here. Bill Barr, on his own after two days of review, said no obstruction, in my view. But, Robert Mueller did not reach that conclusion. Robert Mueller said it's a -- it's a close enough call that I'm going to leave it somebody else.

And so, I would ask Bill Barr is this a close enough question that two reasonable prosecutors --

CUOMO: Right.

HONIG: -- like you and Robert Mueller, could disagree? Is there any evidence of -- that the President of the United States committed obstruction? Clearly, there is. Robert Mueller --

CUOMO: The answer has to be yes.

HONIG: Yes. Robert Mueller would not have ended up on the fence.

CUOMO: Right. And if the answer is no -- see, this is how you know he's a former prosecutor, is that he knows what the answer is.

HONIG: You've got it, Chris.

CUOMO: So if you don't give that answer, now he's going to start walking --

CAMEROTA: Got you.

CUOMO: -- you down a path of where he thinks that you've been playing him the whole time.

Well done, Honig.

HONIG: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: Now, you made a point early on and I think it's going to be a real key consideration for people as they start to digest these 400 pages. And please, do not leave it to people who are wearing makeup all day -- mostly men, on that count -- women do that on a more regular basis -- to tell you what to think about this.

You said they can't make the case of a criminal conspiracy beyond a reasonable doubt when it comes to their coordination with any Russian interference, but that doesn't mean nothing happened.

Explain that in the context of well, what is wrongdoing and what could be in there that isn't a crime but still stinks.

HONIG: Chris, that is such an important distinction that I hope everyone keeps in mind throughout the day today.

In order to charge, and prove, and convict on a federal crime, a prosecutor needs to be able to show proof beyond a reasonable doubt. That is the highest burden of proof we have in all of our legal system.

And so, there's plenty of room though between that and nothing happened. There is all sorts of wrongdoing that could have happened that either is not provable beyond a reasonable doubt or that is bad conduct or a security breach or an ethical breach or an abuse of power that doesn't quite fit within the contours of one specific federal criminal statute.

And so, people need to read this with a sort of holistic view and an objective view. But it is not the case that the only question is crime or no crime.

CAMEROTA: Elie Honig, it is wonderful to have you on standby for us to synthesize everything when it is made public this morning. Thank you very much.

HONIG: Thanks, guys.

CAMEROTA: We do now have breaking news on the release of the Mueller report. So let's get after it, it says.

CUOMO: Well said.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CAMEROTA: All right, good morning, everyone, and welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Thursday, April 18th, 8:00 in the East.

Do not adjust your sets. This is Chris Cuomo. He is joining us this morning. John Berman is off this week.

It is great to have you. It's a very busy morning.

CUOMO: The pleasure is mine. Let's make a little history together.

CAMEROTA: OK, let's do that because it is a landmark day in American political history.

END