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Joe Biden Is Set To Make His Third White House Bid Official This Thursday; House Democrats Say They May Hold Former White House Aide In Contempt For Ignoring Subpoena; More Heartbreak Out Of Sri Lanka Today. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 23, 2019 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN. Thank you for being with me. Breaking news: In the race for the White House. After months of speculation, guessing games and endless attempts to read the 2020 tea leaves, Joe Biden is set to make his third White House bid official this Thursday.

Sources tell CNN that the former Vice President will make the announcement in an online video before holding his first campaign event in Pittsburgh on Monday. From there, Biden will go on a tour of key early voting states -- that's Iowa, South Carolina, New Hampshire in the coming days and new poll suggests Democratic voters will welcome the former Vice President to the ever expanding presidential field, at least that's according to the latest numbers from Monmouth.

Check it out for yourself here, which shows Biden hanging on to his lead and edging out Bernie Sanders who comes in and number two. Mayor Pete Buttigieg and Senators Kamala Harris and Elizabeth Warren round out the top five and all three are in single digits in that poll.

Josh Green is Bloomberg Businessweek's national correspondent and CNN political analyst and Maeve Reston is our CNN national political reporter.

So welcome. Welcome to both of you. And we'll get to -- we'll get to the other Democrats here in just a second. But first, let's just hone in on Joe Biden.

So he's jumping in the race. It is really happening. It is happening this week, Josh, so let me start with you. You know, he has been at the top of the polls even before jumping in, so what does he need to do once he's in to maintain that lead in the most diverse presidential field in modern U.S. history?

JOSH GREEN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think the first thing he's got to do is show that he belongs in the modern Democratic Party and that is a party that is more progressive. It is more focused on people of color issues, of social justice, issues of economic populism than the party that Joe Biden came up.

And we've seen the problems that caused for him, the #MeToo problems also, he's got to get out there on the campaign trail and show that he can be a viable candidate. That the goodwill that has pushed him to the top of the polls among Democratic electorate is going to stay there and grow once they get a taste of Joe Biden as presidential candidate.

BALDWIN: Whose path to the nomination, Maeve, just got a bit harder once he's officially in?

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, I think that's an open question right now, Brooke, potentially all of them. But the questions that you have here for Joe Biden are, you know, not just about what policies he's going to be putting forward and the kinds of apologies that he may have to make for his past positions on things like the crime bill, but also how he justifies being the best candidate to go up against Trump when you clearly see a Democratic Party that is that is hungry, potentially to see a woman leading the ticket.

And you know also, he has not shown us in many years what he can do with small donors. Will he be able to demonstrate that enthusiasm? That grassroots organization that is -- that so many of these other candidates have tapped into particularly like Bernie Sanders?

But it's going to be a fight for those voters and he -- we don't know exactly which lane he's even going to fit into, yet, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Okay, so that happens Thursday. Let's roll back to last night. So we had this huge night here on CNN Town Hall after Town Hall. I want to start with Senator Elizabeth Warren because she did this deep dive on her policy ideas, including her plan to use a wealth tax to pay for it. Here she was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If we put that two cent wealth tax in place on the 75,000 largest fortunes in this country, two cents, we can do universal childcare for every baby zero to five, universal pre-K, universal college, and knock back the student loan debt burden for 95 percent of our students and still have nearly a trillion dollars left over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So juxtapose those details with what we heard from Mayor Pete Buttigieg last night. You know, he said that there's still plenty of time to reveal his positions. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Your campaign Web site, it's got a lot about who you are, what you believe in. It doesn't have anything specific about policy -- like nothing. There's no policy section on it. At what point do you need to start actually presenting specific policies and a whole policy platform?

PETE BUTTIGIEG, (D-IN), MAYOR, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think I've been pretty clear where I stand on the major issues. We will continue to roll out specific policy proposals, too, but I also think it's important that we not drown people in minutiae before we've vindicated the values that animate our policies. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So Josh on the minutia, which do you think American voters would rather have?

[14:05:01] BALDWIN: Someone who doesn't do a deep dive on the minutia, on the specifics, but does plan to roll them out or someone who has all these specific policy ideas up front, but the ideas are majorly expensive?

GREEN: Well, I think at some point, voters want to know that a President has a set of policies and an idea of what he is going to do and how he or she is going to pay for it before they'll vote for them as nominees.

I mean, Buttigieg is new to the scene, and evidently making a bet that he doesn't have to supply those details yet. Warren has made precisely the opposite bet. From the get-go, she was first into the race. She wanted to set the tone of the of the primary race and I think she did by focusing on issues of wealth and billionaires and now that's broadened into student loan debt, all sorts of other things.

And you saw in the Town Hall -- I traveled with Warren over the weekend during her kind of impeachment tour up in New Hampshire. And she is fully fluent on every issue that voters could ask. Part of the vetting in her campaign was they wanted to get her out there. Get her exposed to voters and to reporters so that you would be comfortable in these kinds of environments.

I think the Town Hall last night showed that at this point in the race, she is and that she is more comfortable answering these questions than some other candidates like Buttigieg.

BALDWIN: Well, let's get into some of the other candidates, actually, if I may, Maeve, because that just drives me into my question for you being in California, you've been covering Senator Harris a lot -- Kamala Harris. And this seems to be sort of her go-to response when asked about a multitude of issues.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you believe that Americans should have the right to vote at age 16?

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm really interested in having that conversation.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Senator, yes or no? Do you support financial reparations?

HARRIS: I support that we study that. We should study it and see.

LEMON: Elizabeth Warren is here as you know, she said that she supports student loan forgiveness for 42 million Americans?

HARRIS: Yes. LEMON: Would you go that far? Do you support that?

HARRIS: Well, I support anything that is about reducing the debt of student loans, and I think that's an important conversation to have.

LEMON: People who are convicted in prison, like the Boston Marathon bomber on death row, people who are convicted of sexual assault, they should be able to vote?

HARRIS: I think we should have that conversation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right, so Maeve, you see where I'm going. Let me also though caveat that by saying Senator Harris did lay out specifics when it came to gun control last night.

RESTON: She did. She did.

BALDWIN: But on the on the debate stage, you know, you have to respond in real time. How many more times can kind of default answer be, "We should have that conversation"? How many more times will that be sufficient?

RESTON: Well, it's so funny, Brooke, I did write about this last night because that is what I call her graceful dodge. She does this all the time on the campaign trail when voters ask her questions where she's not quite sure what position she's going to stake out yet, but she wants to kind of convey the idea that she might be on your side.

So you hear that phrase over and over again with her and it's part of her trademark caution that we've seen throughout her career and what I think could actually be a big problem for her going down the line.

Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders -- they just answer those questions flat out last night, a lot of them. With Bernie Sanders, we even saw potentially something that will come back to haunt him. But I don't think that voters really like that kind of caution.

They want someone to really lay out at least kind of what they're thinking. And she often has gone back and you know, looked at the polls and talked to advisers and is just really careful about these kinds of questions. And is that what voters are going to want? I don't know.

BALDWIN: Yes, it's a great question. Everyone watching is the ones to decide. We'll have more clips from last night's Town Halls, guys. Maeve and Josh, thank you all so much for analyzing some of that with me.

Meantime, days after its release, Jared Kushner is speaking publicly for the first time on the Mueller report and the President's son-in- law and senior adviser is downplaying the Special Counsel's findings about how Russia meddled in the 2016 presidential election.

According to Kushner, while speaking today at the "Time" 100 Summit, Russia's interference amounted to a few Facebook ads.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JARED KUSHNER, PRESIDENT TRUMP SENIOR ADVISER: Quite frankly, the whole thing is just a big distraction for the country, and you look at, you know, what Russia did, you know buying some Facebook ads to try to sow dissent and do it and it's a terrible thing, but I think the investigations and all of the speculation that's happened for the last two years has had a much harsher impact on democracy than a couple of Facebook ads.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: "A couple of Facebook ads," he says. Let's hear the facts. The Mueller report paints a much different picture. It cites how a Russian troll group, the Internet Research Agency engaged in a year's long campaign to sow discord in the U.S. and to eventually support Trump's election.

Not to mention, this conclusion directly coming from a report and I quote, "The Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systemic fashion." Phil Mudd is our CNN counterterrorism analyst and a former CIA and former FBI official and Phil Mudd, you know, when you listen to Jared Kushner, it's an age old concept, if you don't first recognize the problem, how are you supposed to solve the problem?

PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: I think that's right. I think one of the ways to look at this, Brooke, is to take politics out of this if you're Republican or Democrat that pretty much decides how you view this issue. For a moment, I'd say let's go back five years before the age of Trump.

[14:10:08] MUDD: And let's say somebody walked into your newsroom and said a hostile foreign intelligence service is going to steal information, massive amounts of information from one candidate, that hostile intelligence service is going to introduce that information into America by the hundreds of thousands of Facebook placements. That service is going to approach American campaign officials, including those close to a presidential candidate who will appear willing to accept hostile information from a rival power, and then you conclude by saying, and the U.S. government should not look into that.

Boy, if you take the politics out of it, I don't know how you say it was not worth investigating, especially when you get information that is so precise that allows you to indict members of the Russian GRU. It looks simple to me, Brooke.

BALDWIN: We just heard last week, CIA Director Gina Haspel commit to paying more attention to Russia but when you listen to Jared Kushner today, does it sound to you like the Trump campaign will take those threats more seriously?

MUDD: I don't think so. I mean, one of the ironies of this is the Trump campaign saying, "Boy, I wish Obama had done more. This is really at his doorstep." And from day one, Trump saying during his pre-inauguration intelligence briefings, I don't believe this that much. After his inauguration, obviously, spending a lot more time vilifying the investigation than talking to the American people, including during midterms, when his own administration said, the Russians are still coming after us, more time talking about Mueller than he did talking about us.

If you couple that with Rudy Giuliani saying in the past couple of days, maybe it's okay to accept Russian information. Boy, any national security professional is going to tell you politics aside, the President should be telling the American people, "Be careful."

BALDWIN: And when you -- I know people stopped me in the street and they say, "Will my vote count in 2020?" How would you respond to that? Given all that we know.

MUDD: There's two separate issues here. One is whether you should be looking at information and being cautious about it. I don't even do Facebook and I would, the second is whether do you think American voting processes are secure? I look at what the Department of Homeland Security has done and the states have done across America, I would say yes -- much different opinion. I'd be worried about where you're getting your opinions from. Going to the voting booth, I'm going to go and I think we'll be okay.

BALDWIN: Phil Mudd, thank you very much.

MUDD: Thank you.

BALDWIN: We've got some breaking news this afternoon. Up on Capitol Hill, House Democrats now say they may hold a former White House aide in contempt for ignoring their subpoena. We'll have a live report for you on that. Also what happened inside the White House last night? I mean, for 30 minutes, the President went on this wild tweet storm.

And it is no secret, the President likes to insult the free press, but now we're learning the White House is actually telling administration officials to boycott the dinner celebrating the First Amendment. We'll be right back. You're watching CNN, I'm Brooke Baldwin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:16:08] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: So you don't put impeachment on the table as the only item on the table and say you're going to get there no matter what, which is what happened in '99. Instead, you say, "We are going to proceed with the seriousness that this demands."

And that House Judiciary Committee, if there is a sufficient careful analysis of what's in the Mueller report, and what's coming to light through congressional hearings, may well start an impeachment inquiry, whose responsibility is not to prejudge the outcome, but to examine the evidence as objectively as possible, and then to draw conclusions and if at that point, they believe that high crimes and misdemeanors have been committed, then I think it is the obligation of the Congress to put forward Articles of Impeachment and I think --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That was Hillary Clinton just speaking moments ago, for the first time on the Mueller report, essentially echoing what we've heard from a lot of Democrats who say they need to fully investigate every revelation from the report before seriously talking about impeachment.

Meantime, the administration is escalating its defiance against Congress. The deadline for the IRS to hand over the President's tax returns is in fewer than three hours. But a White House official says that the Trump administration will deny Democrats' request once again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOGAN GIDLEY, DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Look, as I understand it, the President is pretty clear. Once he's out of audit, he'll think about doing it, but he's not inclined to do so at this time. He turned over hundreds of pages of a financial disclosure form during the campaign. Everyone knows he's a very successful billionaire. He's had a lot of success in the business world, but people see what he's been able to accomplish and there is nothing nefarious there at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Now, if the IRS defies this deadline, it will be just one of many ways the Trump administration is now stonewalling Congress and its attempts at oversight. After Democrats issued a subpoena for former White House official, Carl Kline were approved some questionable security clearances, today the White House directed him not to comply.

Before that, Chairman Elijah Cummings issued another subpoena for the President's bank records. The President responded by filing a lawsuit. All the while, the White House continue to withhold even more documents related to interactions with Russian officials.

CNN Senior Congressional Correspondent, Manu Raju is live on the Hill for us. And so I know you have some new reporting on Carl Kline and how will Chairman Cummings respond to this defiance to testify?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well expect a vote to hold Carl Kline in contempt of Congress, that's what Elijah Cummings made very clear over the last couple of days in a statement that he put out this afternoon saying that he's going to discuss about holding Kline in contempt.

Now we just got a statement from Kline's attorney saying that they take this very seriously. They will consider their own next steps.

[14:20:02] RAJU: But at the moment, Kline is agreeing with the White House that he should not testify before the House Oversight Committee because according to Kline's attorney, he currently works for the Defense Department, which is of course, an Executive Branch agency and the White House is his boss, not Congress. Nevertheless, this all stems back from the Democratic investigation

into security clearances. There were 25 individuals with security clearances who have questions about them and questions why they should not have been approved that were ultimately approved and Carl Kline was singled out by for White House official, Tricia Newbold, who played a key role in greenlighting those security clearances.

Newbold also alleged that Kline retaliated against her and Democrats want to know why, what exactly happened. Whether the President was directly involved in overruling those concerns, particularly for Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump's security clearances. But the White House says that information about individual security clearances should not be turned over to Capitol Hill and Cummings in a very sharply worded statement said that they are standing quote, "open defiance" of a congressional subpoena. So he's planning on holding him in contempt and not letting go of this fight at the moment -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Wow. Manu with fresh reporting off Capitol Hill. Manu, thank you. Although the Mueller investigation still has more than a dozen open cases and Congress awaits his decision to testify, CNN is learning the President is hoping to take the findings from the redacted report on the road for 2020.

So with that scoop, I have CNN Special Correspondent, Jamie Gangel with new reporting on this. Nice to see you.

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Thank you.

BALDWIN: OK, so we know that Trump has been harping on this whole Mueller investigation hoping it goes away for over two years. No collusion. It's a win shot. So why is he so focused on it right now?

GANGEL: And now, he can't get enough of it.

BALDWIN: He can't quit it.

GANGEL: Because this is classic Donald Trump, right? As he said to friends, because I it feels good to punch back. Other people have worked with him have said he likes to pick a fight even when he is winning. But the reality is, he's also on the defense. He has seen those poll numbers, his approval numbers going down. His ratings, as he calls it -- that makes him nervous.

And the one thing we know about Donald Trump, he always lets us know exactly how he is feeling. We started this morning at 5:59. Tweet storm.

BALDWIN: Let's talk about that. So 24 posts in about 30 minutes covering everything from the Mueller report to the Easter Egg Roll. He even tweeted, "In the old days, if you were President and you had a good economy, you were basically immune from criticism. Remember, 'It's the economy, stupid.'"

So PS that phrase was coined during the Clinton era, just a reminder, Bill Clinton was impeached, but I digress. So he continued this morning. Twelve tweets before 8:00 a.m. What does this tell you about his mindset?

GANGEL: He is nervous. He is upset. He is obsessed, you know, pick a word. I think Bill Clinton would take exception to that particular tweet, but look at who he went after this morning. He went after "The New York Times," he went after cable news. He even went after his favorite platform -- Twitter.

This is -- and I think we're going to see more of it because he knows these hearings are coming, whether it's impeachment, whether it's hearings. When former White House Counsel Don McGahn goes up to the Hill. It is going to be stunning testimony. It's not going to be good for Donald Trump and he knows it. His head is going to be exploding.

BALDWIN: So this is the pre -- to that.

GANGEL: Get ready. Get ready.

BALDWIN: Jamie Gangel, thank you.

GANGEL: Sure.

BALDWIN: More heartbreak out of Sri Lanka today. The stories of sacrifice and loss from those who lost loved ones in a terror attack with the father of a fifth grade boy who says about the son he will never see grow up. Also developing today, officials with more people -- say more people with explosives may still be on the run. So we have that update for you on the investigation. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:28:37] BALDWIN: A fifth grade boy from Washington, DC is among the victims from the horrific Sri Lanka bombings and now his father is sharing his grief. I'm talking about 11 year old Kieran Shafritz de Zoysa. He was on a leave of absence to live and study in Sri Lanka when he was killed in one of the explosions and the boy's father says his son was having breakfast at a hotel in the capital city of Colombo when a suicide bomber walked in and detonated his backpack.

And his father says the world lost a sweet, curious and extremely bright young man who was about to skip the sixth grade and had dreams of one day curing deadly diseases.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEXANDER ARROW, FATHER OF KIERAN SHAFRITZ DE ZOYSA: Kieran was articulate and insightful. He wanted to work on diseases like Alzheimer's disease. The terrorist didn't know who they were killing. We should know what the world lost, what they took from the world -- a brilliant mind who was going to be a neuroscientist and he won't make it to his 12th birthday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The boy's mother and grandmother were also with him when the bomb exploded, but we're uninjured. We also have new details on the investigation into the Sri Lankan attacks. An Indian official tells CNN, its Intelligence Services warned Sri Lanka of a pending terror attack in the weeks leading up to those bombings. ISIS is now claiming responsibility for the attacks.

[14:30:09]