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ISIS Claims Responsibility for Terrorism Attacks in Sri Lanka; Democratic Presidential Candidates Answer Questions at CNN Town Hall; Presidential Candidate Bernie Sanders Takes Controversial Position on Voting Rights for Felons in Prison. Aired 8-8:30a ET
Aired April 23, 2019 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:00:00] IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And he has blamed the coordinated terror attacks on a little known local Islamist extremist organization named National Thowheed Jamath, and claiming, alleging, that this homegrown organization was acting in retaliation for the deadly mass shootings that took place in Christchurch, New Zealand, against two mosques there last month.
A lot to unpack here, but there is one commonality here. If these two attacks are linked by some twisted logic of retaliation, the weapons may have been different, but if you can see behind me, the end result is the same. Places of worship where innocent civilians had been gathered in prayer ripped apart. Women, men, children, innocents cut down by the scores, leaving families that will forever be broken.
And the Sri Lankans are moving forward in their investigation, calling for international assistance given that there may be international links behind this very carefully coordinated series of attacks that took place on Sunday. They say they have detained at least 40 suspects, all believed to be Sri Lankans. But they're still very much on edge. There is a curfew expected to go into effect at 9:00 p.m. tonight. John, Alisyn?
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Ivan, thank you very much for the reporting from there. Please keep us posted as you get more details.
Joining us now is CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank. He is the editor in chief of the "CTC Sentinel" and the co-author of "Nine Lives, My Time as the West's Top Spy Inside Al Qaeda." Paul, we wanted to get you back, because two hours ago ISIS had not yet claimed responsibility. Now they have. What does it say to you that ISIS could remotely pull off an attack with this level of carnage, 321 people killed, 500 others injured, what does it say about their current viability?
PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: They've claimed responsibility just a few minutes ago via their official messaging channels, but they offered no evidence yet that they are actually responsible for this attack. It was a very short statement saying that the attack was carried out by its fighters targeting the citizens of coalition countries, the anti-ISIS coalition, and also Christians. No mention of the Christchurch terrorist attack in their statement, it should be pointed out. But they've provided no evidence they were behind this attack yet, and
they put out full statements previously claiming responsibility for attacks they had no role in whatsoever. One example was back in October, 2017, with that Las Vegas shooting. They claimed responsibility after that. They had nothing to do with that attack.
So it remains to be seen whether they did have a link to this, but as Barbara Starr has reported, U.S. intelligence have identified one operative, I believe, who was a part of this who they believe had links to ISIS. So that could well be a link to ISIS. It's possible that they provided direction to this, some assistance to this attack.
The group the Sri Lankans have said are responsible for this attack within Sri Lanka are a very small jihadi outfit that haven't really had the capacity or capability to pull something like this off. So you would look as an investigator at the possibility of an assistance from an international terror network. There are 32 and more Sri Lankans that have gone to join ISIS in Syria in recent years. So there is a possibility perhaps some of those fighters came back to plan this attack or provided direction from overseas. A lot of questions still.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And one of the main questions was, was this local group that hadn't done anything like this, this caliber before, could they pull it off without assistance, which is why people began looking to places like ISIS. And also ISIS, after what happened in New Zealand, put out an international call for retaliation, Paul.
CRUICKSHANK: That's right, ISIS put out an international call for retaliation. So did Al Qaeda, but Al Qaeda told their supporters and followers around the world do not attack places of worship. And that's one of the reasons why I think U.S. intelligence is focusing in on ISIS as the group that maybe inspired this, maybe had a link to this. We'll have to wait and see in the hours to come whether ISIS puts out more information suggesting they had insider knowledge about this attack. That may then suggest they really did have some kind of role. But right now, we should absolutely not take their word for it.
BERMAN: Paul Cruickshank, as always, excellent advice and insight from you. Thank you very much for being with us this morning.
So it is the morning after the first major event, in many ways, of the 2020 presidential race, a CNN town hall marathon, five candidates on the same stage, not at the same time, consecutively, we should say, trying to carve out their own space in this large, diverse, and growing field.
[08:05:00] So what was most revealing to me, at least, were there were real differences emerging on key policy issues -- voting rights for prisoners, felons in prison, tuition free college, and then there were growing disagreements on the crucial choice facing Democrats, whether to begin impeachment proceedings on the president of the United States based on the Mueller investigation.
So joining us now to discuss, Nia-Malika Henderson, CNN senior political reporter, Jeffrey Toobin, CNN chief legal analyst, and in the flesh, Michael Smerconish, host of CNN's "SMERCONISH."
CAMEROTA: You exist.
BERMAN: We only get you on remote usually.
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN ANCHOR: Toobin manhandled me a week ago when I was remote. I thought I better come in today.
(LAUGHTER)
BERMAN: We had to separate you by this big table.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Even better to have you right here.
(LAUGHTER)
BERMAN: So I was struck last night as a point of policy that there were real divisions between these candidates. One of them was on an issue which was a surprise to me, which was when Senator Bernie Sanders said he supported voting rights for people in prison, felons in prison, including the worst of the worst. So listen to what Senator Sanders said, and then listen to the different other positions that the candidates carved out for themselves. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think the right to vote is inherent to our democracy, yes, even for terrible people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People who are convicted, in prison, like the Boston Marathon bomber on death row, people who are convicted of sexual assault, they should be able to vote?
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS, (D-CA) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think we should have that conversation.
PETE BUTTIGIEG, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: While incarcerated?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
BUTTIGIEG: No. I don't think so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: So Bernie, yes. Kamala Harris, study it. Pete Buttigieg, no.
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes. And one of the things you saw as a result of Kamala Harris' answer was basically Republicans come out and say, really, she wants to have a conversation about whether or not the Boston Marathon Bomber should be able to vote in prison?
The Democrats obviously want to have this discussion about voting rights, or having it, for instance, in New Hampshire, with voting I.D. laws. There's been discussion in Florida about folks who get out of prison. That's something that voters in Florida voted to allow. And so there you have Bernie Sanders being Bernie Sanders, staking out a very far left position on this. Kamala Harris essentially saying she has to study it. And then Pete Buttigieg I think really taking another firm decision and probably a decision, I think an approach that most Democrats will take, which is to say that, listen, they're in jail. They are deprived of some rights while in jail. But when they get out of jail, then they should have their voting rights restored.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: The larger point is I think Democrats are going to make voting rights a big deal. Today the Supreme Court is hearing a case about whether the Census can ask about citizenship, this sort of larger network of issues relating to the Republican Party's attempt not to count Democrats, whether it's not to allow them to vote through their absentee voting, early voting, felon voting. Most of those issues Democrats are united around. I do think that Bernie took a position that the others are unlikely to take on actual serving prisoners voting. But on those other issues, I think you're going to see a lot of unanimity.
CAMEROTA: And maybe that is the point, just seeing right now who is willing to carve out a bold position that they've thought about, whereas some candidates are still saying, we'll see, we'll study it.
SMERCONISH: He's principled. It's a legitimate conversation to have, but he had to have known as he said that that this is a series, for lack of a better description, of Willie Horton ads that are just ready to be made.
BERMAN: And Chris said that to him. Cuomo said that immediately.
SMERCONISH: The worst of the worst are going to be on screen, and they're going to say this is someone that Bernie Sanders thinks should not sacrifice their right to vote.
BERMAN: Eric Swalwell who was with us last hour said firm no on this. It took him no time to say no, this is a bad idea. And I do think you are hearing from more people in the Democratic Party nationally looking at Bernie Sanders' and his numbers in the polls, which are very high, consistently high.
TOOBIN: To say nothing of how much money he has, which is also enormous.
BERMAN: In his fundraising numbers, he is the clear frontrunner right now, and that makes a lot of establishment Republicans -- I'm sorry, establishment Democrats, I so used to that -- establishment Democrats who want to beat Donald Trump, it makes them nervous.
HENDERSON: It makes them nervous and it really makes them want Joe Biden want to get in this race. And he will likely get in sometime at some point this week. He is more of the establishment favorite. This is a replay in many ways of 2016 when you did have the establishment coalescing around Hillary Clinton, being very anti-Bernie Sanders, essentially saying that he was too far left. He was a Democratic Socialist and that he couldn't win the White House.
But then you had Bernie Sanders supporters, basically, on the day after the election saying Bernie Sanders could have won the election if he had been the nominee for the Democratic Party. So if you're Bernie Sanders, you feel like you're in a pretty good position.
[08:10:01] As you said, the fundraising has been off the charts. He's got a real dedicated slice of the electorate. And in many ways, they haven't seemed to move very much on to different candidates.
SMERCONISH: Can I say to Nia's point, that dedicated base, they're not going anywhere. That statement last night will not defend Bernie's supporters. And what we need to keep our eye on the ball is the proportionate nature of the Democratic vote in the nomination process. So that you're going to have a super Tuesday. It will involve Texas. It will involve California. If Bernie locks up 25 percent of that vote, whether he secures the nomination ultimately, I think he'll be the one holding the cards in terms of who will be the nominee.
CAMEROTA: So let's listen to what the candidates said last night about impeachment. Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS, (D-CA) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I believe Congress should take the steps towards impeachment.
PETE BUTTIGIEG, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think he's just made it pretty clear that he deserves impeachment. I'm also going to leave it to the House and Senate to figure that out.
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN, (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If there's going to be any accountability, that accountability has to come from the Congress.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Congress has got to take a hard look at that. At the end of the day, what is most important to me is to see that Donald Trump is not reelected president.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR, (D-MN) PRESIDENT CANDIDATE: There is a third way to hold this president accountable, and that is by defeating him in the 2020 election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: So leave it to Congress and the voters. Not as perhaps a radical position as we heard from some of the other candidates.
TOOBIN: I think other than Elizabeth Warren, there is pretty much unanimity among the Democrats, which is the Nancy Pelosi position, which is keep investigating. It's a good idea for the House Judiciary Committee to call Don McGahn, the former White House Counsel, as a witness, but don't call an impeachment proceeding yet. And I think politically as well as substantively, that's the right decision, brother Smerconish.
(LAUGHTER)
SMERCONISH: I just think there is a temptation for Democrats to overplay the hand that they've been dealt here. It's a very good hand. There is a lot of good substance. Those hearings that your prescribing could be advantageous.
But if they are placating the base because the base wants impeachment, they want this vote to be taken regardless of what the Senate will do, if they listen to those loudest voices, I think it will drive the party into a ditch for the next election.
TOOBIN: But is there any sign of that happening? Pelosi, Nadler, they're all saying, no, we're not doing impeachment.
SMERCONISH: In light of the Pelosi call last night, the 87-minute call, I think there probably isn't. Joe Lockhart, who is here often, has a provocative essay, I think, today in "The Times" arguing that the best thing for Democrats is keep Donald Trump exactly what he is right now. They want him to be in position in the 2020 election because he's the best liability that they can ascribe to Republicans.
HENDERSON: And sort of drawing out the scrutiny, right? If you do go forward with impeachment, the articles in the House, it goes over to the Senate. We know what is going to happen in the Senate. And then you essentially have Donald Trump saying he's been exonerated and this is all over. But if they kind of drag it out, you can always have that as part of the conversation.
BERMAN: What about the hearings, Michael? Don McGahn, is it worth the Judiciary Committee bringing Don McGahn in?
SMERCONISH: Yes. Yes. It's worth hearing from Robert Mueller. The top of my list would want to be to question Robert Mueller about how for 22 months many of us labored under the view that he would reach conclusions that were never a part of his plan.
BERMAN: Never, never.
SMERCONISH: Never a part of his plan. And sure, Don McGahn is someone you want to hear from. There are some select witnesses, but at a certain point, I think it goes too far.
CAMEROTA: Jeffrey, Michael, Nia-Malika, thank you.
TOOBIN: We're much more in alignment than we were last time.
SMERCONISH: Jeffrey has come around.
(LAUGHTER)
CAMEROTA: Excellent.
TOOBIN: Let's just say we agree more.
CAMEROTA: There you go.
BERMAN: I thought he was going to jump across the table.
TOOBIN: No, I love Mike Smerconish.
BERMAN: She is not a senator, a governor, or a mayor, but she is running for president, and she says she has got every bit as good of a platform as all the other candidates. Why Marianne Williamson thinks she has as winning message. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:17:40] CAMEROTA: All right. With 19 Democratic presidential candidates, it can be hard to stand out. I feel you don't even know I'm running. No.
Actually, Marianne Williamson is one of those running. She is a best selling author and activist. Her new book is called "Politics of Love: A Handbook for a New American Revolution."
And, Marianne Williamson joins us now here in studio.
Great to have you.
MARIANNE WILLIAMSON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you. It's great to be here. Thanks.
CAMEROTA: So, how do you stand out in a crowded field of 19 people? Do you wish there were fewer?
WILLIAMSON: No, I think it's very healthy for our democracy and very healthy for the Democratic Party that so many people are running. I don't think of myself as running against anyone, I think of myself as running with a lot of smart people. This is an all hands on deck moment in the United States. If anybody has a good idea, put them out there.
In terms of standing out, I don't wake up in the morning and ask how to stand out. But I do try to speak as fiercely and authentically as I can, a conversation that I believe goes deeper than that which is held by some of the candidates.
BERMAN: So when you come out, you have this new book, "Politics of Love." What does that mean when you implement a policy platform, if you become president, how do you implement the politics of love?
WILLIAMSON: Well, look at the politics of hate. Look at what just happened in Sri Lanka. That's hate operationalized.
That's what Nazis are. They are hate operationalized. There is much racism, bigotry, anti-Semitism, et cetera, operationalized.
You can also operationalize compassion, you operationalize mercy, and you see that as a political process as well. I'll give you an example. The factor that most wages peace, that creates situations in life where there is a higher incidence of peace and a lower incidence of conflict is expanding educational opportunities for children, expanding economic opportunities for women, reducing violence against women and ameliorating unnecessary human suffering wherever possible, that is love operationalized and it is actually more successful at waging peace.
Making love operational would mean actually addressing the chronic trauma of millions of American children who go to school where they don't even have libraries, they don't even have school supplies needed to teach a child to read. And if a child cannot read by eight years old, the chances of high school graduation are drastically decreased, the chances of incarceration are drastically increased.
We have 41 millions of people in America who are hungry. That means millions of American children go to school every day and eat only what they get from at the food bank.
[08:20:04] That is love operationalized to feed those children.
We need to include, I believe, in our conversation of political expertise, wisdom and morals and ethics and goodness. I think that the American people, I think we're good people, and I think the average American tries to live a good life, but we need to ask about a good society.
And whether something is loving, ethical and moral should be part of our public as well as our private conversation.
CAMEROTA: Why do you think we're so bitterly divided?
WILLIAMSON: We're so bitterly divided because we, among other things, have a chaos agent for president. We know that.
BERMAN: You said we're good people. Do you think he's a good person?
WILLIAMSON: I'm not going to go there. I would say this. I believe there is goodness in all of us. I see many instances where he does not act from the goodness that I believe is our God-given mission on this Earth of loving each other.
CAMEROTA: Elizabeth Warren laid out her plan last night for free college education. The way she would pay for it is by taxing the wealthiest people, two cents on the dollar. Do you like that plan?
WILLIAMSON: I do. I do. I think Elizabeth Warren, her whole concept of holding capitalism accountable, I think, is extremely important. I think there are too many people, particularly young people, because they weren't even born when all of this started, don't even realize the radical departure from economic ethics that began in around 1980, begun in the '80s where corporations were not -- the social contract by which corporations were expected to have ethical and moral consideration that went beyond fiduciary responsibility to the stock stockholders. They were thought to have a moral responsibility to workers, to community, to environment.
That is a radical shift. It has not built a fine economy. It has decimated our economy. It has decimated the middle class. It has created 40 percent of all Americans struggling just to make ends meet -- food, transportation, health and rent.
So, she's absolutely correct. I'm totally with Elizabeth Warren on that. We need more than incremental approaches. We need to really interrupt this horrible pattern of injustice by which 1 percent of all Americans own more than 90 percent of the wealth.
BERMAN: One of the things she said supported last night was also impeachment. She does support impeachment proceedings against the president in the House. Is that something you support?
WILLIAMSON: I think we're still in process. I believe that the Senate House needs to do its job now, its constitutionally appointed task. I'd like to hear from Mr. Mueller, I'd like to hear from Mr. Barr, probably Mr. McGahn.
I believe that there are -- having it on the table is correct. Whether -- I'm not ready to go all the way over to we should impeach. But we're in process and that process needs to occur.
CAMEROTA: We like to talk about music on the show. We have a new feature.
(LAUGHTER)
CAMEROTA: How rocking is that, number one?
BERMAN: Not very. Every time you ask that question, I'm going to say not very.
CAMEROTA: So, John loves the Grateful Dead.
WILLIAMSON: OK.
CAMEROTA: I love the '80s, punk rock, alternative.
What's your favorite musical genre?
WILLIAMSON: Well, I'm with John in terms of the age, but I would say Aretha, early Motown, Bob Dillon, but --
CAMEROTA: Who is your favorite band, favorite musician?
WILLIAMSON: I love Earth, Wind & Fire. I love Steven Tyler, I love Nacho, I love -- like I said, Bob Dillon, and Aretha.
CAMEROTA: OK, on your mixed tape, your top two songs? Your top two favorite songs?
WILLIAMSON: Gloria Gaynor, "I Will Survive." If it's a bad day, I go to Gloria Gaynor.
I would counsel a lot of people who are like going through breakup and things, and I say, if nothing else works, it's Gloria Gaynor.
CAMEROTA: It is such a good one. It is such a good one. Come on, tell me that is not your female empowerment song. BERMAN: When I'm going through a hard breakup, I always put on Gloria
Gaynor. Absolutely.
Marianne Williamson, thank you so much for playing. Thanks for coming on. I really appreciate you being here.
WILLIAMSON: Thank you. Thank you so much.
CAMEROTA: Great to talk to you. Thanks so much.
BERMAN: All right. Talking about music, her version of "God Bless America" has played for generations. Now, Kate Smith's voice is being silenced. Decades after her death, the offensive lyrics that have some of the biggest teams in sports taking action, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:28:02] CAMEROTA: Kate Smith's iconic rendition of "God Bless America" is now banned by two sports teams three decades after her death. The singer's statue in Florida -- sorry, in Philadelphia -- has been taken down after racist lyrics were discovered in two of her songs from the 1930s.
Miguel Marquez is live in Philadelphia with the latest.
So, tell us about this, Miguel.
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning to you.
I want to show where we are right now. That's where the arena is for the Flyers. This is where the arena used to stand, only the base is left now. I will tell you that there are some racially charged lyrics in the story you're about to hear. Perhaps the most amazing thing about reporting this is it reminds us just how far -- where this country was and how far it has to go on matters of race.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATE SMITH, SINGER (singing): God bless America --
MARQUEZ (voice-over): Her voice, a Philly and New York favorite. For decades, Kate Smith, a staple of Philadelphia Flyers games from the mid-'70s on. In her rendition of "God Bless America," played at New York Yankees games since the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.
For both teams, no more.
SMITH: I'm going to sing this next song for a lot of little colored children who are listening in an orphanage in New York City.
MARQUEZ: The recent rediscovery of overtly racist songs casting Smith in a new light. The 1993 Paramount Pictures film "Hello, Everybody" features Smith singing "Pickaninny Heaven."
SMITH: Little pickaninnies listen to the tale of a place that I know -- MARQUEZ: And in 1991, she recorded "That's Why Darkies Were Born."
The song, a top 10 hit that year.
SMITH: Someone had to slave and be able to sing. That's why darkies were born.
[08:30:00]
