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Flyers Remove Kate Smith Statue; CDC Confirms More Cases of Measles; Selfie Trend for Cleaning Up; Warren's Education Plan. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired April 23, 2019 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00] KATE SMITH, MUSICIAN (singing): And be able to sing that's why darkies were born.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The Flyers in a statement said the songs included lyrics and sentiments that are incompatible with the values of our organization and invoke painful and unacceptable themes.

After Smith's death in 1986, the flyers installed a statue of her outside their arena. The team initially covered it, then unceremoniously removed it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They took a statue?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We didn't know.

MARQUEZ: Suzy Andron, niece to Kate Smith, and her husband, didn't know the statue was being removed until they were informed by a reporter in Philadelphia. She says her aunt was no racist and the Flyers could have considered the entirety of her life.

SUZY ANDRON, KATE SMITH'S NIECE: What Aunt Katherine gave to that team freely, freely. She was -- she was so proud that she was their mascot.

MARQUEZ: In their statement, the Flyers said, we cannot stand idle while material from another era gets in the way of who we are today.

In 1982, Smith, a star of the early 20th century, was awarded the Medal of Freedom by President Reagan. Her 1939 rendition of "God Bless America" during Yankees games was also ended. The team saying in a statement, the Yankees take social, racial and cultural insensitivities very seriously. And while no final conclusions have been made, we are erring on the side of sensitivity.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ: Now, here in Philadelphia, some fans were upset at how abruptly the statue was removed. The song itself was considered sort of a good luck charm for the Flyers, but most people seem to fall on the side of, let's start some new traditions.

John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Miguel Marquez for us in Philadelphia. Thanks very much.

Let's talk more about this controversy. Joining me, LZ Granderson, ESPN host and sports and culture columnist for the "LA Times," and Lou Scheinfeld, former vice president for the Philadelphia Flyers, currently the president of the Museum of Sports.

And, Lou, it was you who introduced the Kate Smith "God Bless America" to the Flyers. And for people who aren't sports fans, this was a giant deal for the entire '70s --

LOUIS SCHEINFELD, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT, PHILADELPHIA FLYERS: Yes.

BERMAN: With Kate Smith in person and then the song being played ever since then. And since the removal of the statue and the banning of the song, you say this is the P.C. police striking again.

What do you mean?

SCHEINFELD: Well, I think there might have been a little bit of patience, maybe some public discourse. The -- for the Yankees to say, while they're investigating it, they yanked the song. For the Flyers to ban the song -- and, by the way, the song pretty much had played itself out. It was 50 years ago, in December 11, 1969 when I first played it. And it's rarely been played in recent years. And it was time to put the song to bed. But to take the -- to cover the statue with black tarp and rope and then to have it removed in the -- under cover of darkness or in the wee hours when nobody was around, to me I think that was a little over the top.

BERMAN: LZ.

LZ GRANDERSON, ESPN HOST: Well, I mean, he's entitled to his opinion, but what's not an opinion is whether or not the content, and not just the songs that she, you know, are -- is quoted as singing, but also the fact that she performed in blackface at some point and performing as a black mammy (ph), those things aren't opinions, those are facts. And the reality is, is that just as we no longer celebrate the men who used to kill people who thought the earth was round because they believed it was flat, we've moved on. We've gotten better as a society. And this is just one more step in us becoming better as a society.

BERMAN: You know, Lou, you wrote an op-ed, and in that op-ed you said, what's caused the ruckus are songs she recorded in the 1930s that today are considered racist. Aren't they just flat out racist? Isn't -- can't we just say that the songs she recorded and the language she used then is just racist, Lou?

SCHEINFELD: Absolutely. The language is repulsive to me and to everyone else today with anybody of a decent mind. But that was 80 or 90 years ago and you have to take certain things in context. If you want to go back and rip anybody apart for any transgression they might have done 80 or 90 years ago, look, it was acceptable then. It -- to me it should never be acceptable and I agree with LZ. But are we going to tear everybody down? Francis Scott Key, who wrote the national anthem, was an ardent slave supporter. And what do we do about the national anthem? We can't keep tearing everybody down. It's history. Let's learn from it.

BERMAN: LZ.

GRANDERSON: Yes, we can learn from it, but we don't have to continue to celebrate those same figures at the same time. I mean you're absolutely correct, history is filled with men and women who have helped society become better culturally who happen to have racist views or have done racist things.

[08:35:05] We celebrated Tiger Woods recently returning back to glory winning at the Masters. We didn't spend very much time asking ourselves, why was this tournament called the Masters in Augusta, Georgia, founded by two men that we know, in fact, were racist, who are quoted for saying racist things. Ever wonder why it was called the Masters? So, I mean, we have to find a way to find a proper balance, but that doesn't mean that we have to celebrate our past mistakes.

BERMAN: LZ, the statement from Kate Smith's family was not only was she not a racist, she was a loving, gentle, deeply religious soul who helped America through two world wars and the very songs declare her demonstrative appreciation for what she would today refer to as all African-Americans.

What would you say to the family?

GRANDERSON: Well, I never had the opportunity to meet her. I haven't interviewed or done any reporting with her family. So I'm not going to say whether or not she was a loving person or whether or not she was someone who believed in celebrating all people.

I will simply say that her record is her record. And she opted to record those songs. She opted to perform in blackface. And so I'm sorry that they feel that somehow she's been wronged, but she's the one that did those things.

BERMAN: Lou, I want to give you the last word here.

SCHEINFELD: Well, Judy Garland did blackface. Al Jolson did blackface. A lot of people did blackface. Kate Smith was a patriot.

GRANDERSON: Black people didn't. Black people didn't do blackface.

SCHEINFELD: Oh, yes, they did. Yes, they did, as a matter of fact. In the (INAUDIBLE) parade this past year a black man did blackface and was criticized for it.

GRANDERSON: Not by -- yes, yes.

SCHEINFELD: I mean we can't do anything anymore without getting criticized, as being racist. Are we all racists?

BERMAN: LZ.

GRANDERSON: Well, listen, we're not -- we're not running around trying to say all white people are racists and all black people are angels. That's not the point. The point is, is that you're absolutely correct, black people were forced to perform in blackface because society forced black people to do blackface or you couldn't perform and you couldn't eat. So, yes, those were the choices handed to us today. But just because we're at a different place doesn't mean that we don't have the opportunities to go back and correct some of those transgressions, or at least not celebrate the people who were at the center of that racist behavior back in the day.

BERMAN: All right, LZ Granderson --

SCHEINFELD: Correct. But let's not -- let's not wipe them off the face of the earth.

BERMAN: All right, guys, I appreciate you being with me today and having this discussion. I'm sure we will have an opportunity to have this discussion again. Thank you.

Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: That was really great. That was a great discussion because they were also respectful, you know, and dispassionate about a very passionate, heated subject, and I thought -- I think that that is really interesting in what people are talking about and their model for how to do it.

Thank you, John.

We have an update for you on the near record outbreak now of measles. Where are these new cases? Dr. Sanjay Gupta is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:41:57] CAMEROTA: All right, the CDC has just confirmed 71 more cases of measles nationwide. That brings the U.S. close to a new record number of cases since the disease was declared eliminated nearly two decades ago.

CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, joins us now.

Sanjay, are these new cases all concentrated in one place?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, no, you're starting to see new states as well that are going up. You know, so you -- if you look at the map, you add Iowa and Tennessee. So 20 states before, now 22 states. Those are the two new ones.

And then you look at that, Alisyn. This is getting pretty spread around the country. In New York, where you are, you still have the highest concentration. Washington state is the second highest concentration.

We're four months into the year. We're getting very close to having the highest number of people with measles since the year 2000, since this was virtually eliminated in the United States. So that's the concern and that spread is the concern as well.

CAMEROTA: So, Sanjay, if you live in an area around one of the concentrated places, are you protected?

GUPTA: Yes, this is the question. Let me -- and I'm going to answer that. But let me tell you something. You remember last week we talked about, Alisyn, this man who traveled by bus from New York to Michigan and got some 40 people infected along the way. So just keep that in the back of your mind.

What we know is the vast majority of people who are getting measles are people who are not vaccinated, over 90 percent. That makes sense. But also, as part of that, that means that around close to around 10 percent of people who are getting measles were people who had been previously vaccinated. So what do you do?

If you -- if you went to public schools and you had required vaccinations and you got two shots, you should be fine because your immunity should be close to 97 percent. That should be pretty good.

If you're not sure of your vaccination status and you live in one of these areas where measles seems to be spreading, you may want to just go ahead and get another shot, another measles shot. That's a new recommendation that's starting to come out.

Another recommendation, Alisyn, you know, you don't start these shots until babies are 12 months of age. What we're likely to hear over the next couple of months is babies as young as six months of age go ahead and get that first shot if they're going to be traveling internationally or living in an area where measles is spreading. This is what it's come down to, Alisyn, now, because, you know, we thought we didn't have to deal with this, no one worried about how immune they were to measles because it simply wasn't around. Those recommendations are changing.

CAMEROTA: Sanjay, thank you very much for the update this morning.

GUPTA: Yes. Thank you.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Senator Elizabeth Warren is promising to wipe out student debt and make public colleges free. But do the numbers add up? That's next.

CAMEROTA: But first, there's a new online challenge going viral around the world. It's called hash tag trash tag and it taps into the selfie craze as a way to help the environment. So here is "Impact Your World."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I declare a second area clean. (INAUDIBLE). Let's move on to that front part.

My name is Byron Roman (ph) and I have recently reignited the hash tag trash tag challenge.

My post was mainly to inspire or motivate younger people.

[08:45:02] The challenge is, they're taking a photo of an area that needs to be cleaned up, and they clean it up.

Let's put the bags over there.

And they're doing selfies or shots of the area they have cleaned up.

Trash tag!

And post it using hash tag trash tag.

I did not think ahead of the magnitude this was going to take on.

My post has been shared 333,000 times and it's been liked over 100,000 times. And I started receiving more pictures being posted. When it started going viral, from people in Vietnam, from India, Nepal and Europe of them doing their share.

I'm very humbled that someone like me was able to share a post that crossed countries, crossed cultures, crossed languages and inspired people to make the world a better place.

So the challenge right now is for you to find an area, get some trash bags, whatever it is, pick it up, take a photo of it and post it online.

I declare this area clean!

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:50:20] CAMEROTA: 2020 candidate Senator Elizabeth Warren is out with an ambitious proposal to eliminate student debt. The plan would forgive billions of dollars of student loans and expand on her promise for free tuition at public colleges. The question, of course, is, does the math add up?

Here to discuss this is Bianna Golodryga, CNN contributor, and Catherine Rampell, a columnist for "The Washington Post" and a CNN political commentator.

Great to have both of you here in studio.

Catherine, I want to start with you.

You are not -- well, let me first put up what Elizabeth Warren specifically -- let me put it on the screen for everybody what her proposal does. It cancels up to $50,000 in student debt loan based on your income, free undergrad tuition at all public colleges, invests $100 billion in Pell grants over ten years, creates $50 billion -- a $50 billion fund for historically black colleges, it costs $1.25 trillion over ten years.

You are not convinced that this is actually the best way to get kids to go to college.

CATHERINE RAMPELL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So I absolutely think that the United States should be investing more money in education, in higher education, in lots of different forms of higher education. We have been disinvesting for a long time, particularly in public schools.

My concern is that the way that the free tuition proposal is framed is not the most targeted way to do it because if you make four-year college free for everyone, that means it's also free, for example, for Bill Gates' kids, who will almost certainly go to college on their own, their dad can afford -- their parents can afford to send them to college. So basically you're spending the money on people who are going to go to college anyway and who can afford it.

My approach to questions like this, as well as the approach of some of the other Democratic candidates, by the way, is a more progressive system, progressive in the technical sense, not in the sense of a synonym for liberal. Meaning that you have very big subsidies for low income and lower middle income people and then you have them sort of phasing out so that basically rich kids who can afford it will pay, maybe full freight, and those who need the help get it. And -- and there are lots of proposals that look like this --

CAMEROTA: And which candidate like that. Which candidates proposes that?

RAMPELL: So, Amy Klobuchar, for example, has talked about making community college free, but not four year college free, which is sort of tantamount to the same thing. And a number of the other candidates have basically expressed similar reservations about, again, sort of socialism for rich people.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, and Pete Buttigieg brought that up, too. I mean he calls himself a liberal and a progressive and says that it's hard for him to square how somebody who earns less money likely will not be attending college may have to pay the burden as far as taxes are concerned for those who will go to college, as we know, will typically earn more money as they get older out of school.

BERMAN: It was interesting to hear Pete Buttigieg talk about it because he said he was generally supportive of the Warren plan, but --

GOLODRYGA: He thinks that people maybe making over $200,000 shouldn't be receive the same benefits as someone making $30,000.

GOLODRYGA: Yes. Well, what I think you're going to see a lot more people embrace is her idea of student loan debt forgiveness. You've got $1.4 trillion of student loans out there that are outstanding. For her to embrace this idea is -- clearly she's got her eye on Bernie Sanders. She's been saying that her plan is bigger, more expansive, more detailed, and it's this area where I think you're going to have more people say that's not a bad idea and that tackles a huge issue that a lot of Americans are struggling with right now.

BERMAN: And the thing is, is that, generally speaking, when these plans are introduced, historically, there's no set plan for how to pay for it. Elizabeth Warren has a plan that she was eager to talk about. So let's listen to that. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So your 50 millionth and first dollar, you've got to pay two cents and two cents on all of the dollars after that.

If we put that two cent wealth tax in place on the 75,000 largest fortunes in this country, two cents, we can do universal child care for every baby zero to five, universal pre-k, universal college, and knock back the student loan debt burden for 95 percent of our students and still have nearly a trillion dollars left over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: The wealth tax.

GOLODRYGA: Look, she knew her audience. She came out here. She knew that this was going to be announced today that she was going to be giving this town hall in front of a lot of students. It's where she feels comfortable. Remember, she had been a professor prior.

Where you're going to see some pushback, not only from the Republicans, but also from people like Michael Bloomberg, who initially said, how much can you go after rich Americans who, you know, also contribute in taxes and also contribute in hiring and in jobs throughout the country. Getting something like this passed in Congress for many people would be considered pie in the sky at this point.

RAMPELL: I will say, it polls very well, even among Republicans, a wealth tax. But it does have some legal issues. There's some constitutional questions about a wealth tax. There are other ways you can do sort of the same thing, including, you know, raising capital gains taxes and inheritance taxes and things like that.

[08:55:11] I think my greater concern about using the wealth tax to pay for all of this -- and kudos to Elizabeth Warren for having pay fors, not --

GOLODRYGA: And details, right?

RAMPELL: And details. The problem is that there is some debate amongst tax experts about whether the numbers that she has -- that her team has compiled, are overly optimistic for how much a wealth tax would raise because of things like tax evasion and tax avoidance. So I think it's good that we are talking about these kinds of proposals that are expensive in the context of how do we pay for them. But, again, there's an open debate about whether the revenue sources identified here would actually be sufficient.

GOLODRYGA: Which is where we would say, we're not just going to be taxing income, we're going to be taxing net worth. That's all of your belongings, your value, your home, what have you. Anybody that wants to try to evade that, like, let's say renounce their U.S. citizenship, would have to pay an exit tax as well. So it is interesting and kudos to her for addressing some of these specifics. BERMAN: All right, Bianna Golodryga, Catherine Rampell, thank you very

much.

And Elizabeth Warren driving a serious policy discussion. I think we can all agree on that right now.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely.

All right, meanwhile, there are breaking developments in the Sri Lanka terror bombings. So "NEWSROOM" picks up after this quick break

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:00:01] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: All right, top of the hour, good morning, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.

Investigate now, impeach maybe at some point.

END