Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Sen. Bob Casey (D-PA) is Interviewed about Joe Biden; Former Staffer Calls for Impeachment; Services Suspended over Security Concerns in Sri Lanka; Diabetic Sweet Treats; Abuse at Boy Scouts. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired April 25, 2019 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00] SEN. BOB CASEY (D-PA): Class gets the short end of the stick, not just through the tax bill but through all kinds of other bad policy by corporate Republicans and this president, and taking away the protections of health care, destroying our ability to be able to tackle and combat climate change.

So, if you want to stay on the road we're on, you're going to support President Trump and you should go out and support him. But if you want change, I think Vice President Biden offers that change, his record, his ideas that he'll outline in the campaign. And I think it's going to be an election about whether you want change or not more than it will be about someone's age.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: : All right, Senator Bob Casey, thank you very much for sharing with us your position on your friend Joe Biden and your early endorsement. Great to talk to you.

CASEY: Thank you very much.

CAMEROTA: And, John, we just -- you know, we were talking about his big video this morning, the campaign video.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Charlottesville, yes.

CAMEROTA: All about featuring Charlottesville. And so we have just made contact with Heather Heyer's mom, the woman who was killed in Charlottesville, and she will be coming on NEW DAY soon. We will keep you posted on that.

BERMAN: I think that's a fascinating discussion to have with her.

All right, our next guest was a member of President Trump's transition team. Now he says the president should be impeached. Why is he saying that now? We'll ask.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:35:14] BERMAN: A former staffer on President Trump's transition team says the Mueller report convinced him that it's time for impeachment. J.W. Verret writes in an op-ed for "The Atlantic" that the president's, quote, pattern of obstruction may have successfully impeded the Mueller investigation from uncovering a conspiracy to commit more serious crimes. At a minimum, there's enough here to get the impeachment process started.

Joining me now, J.W. Verret. He's a law professor at George Mason University's Antonin Scalia Law School.

Thanks so much for being with us, professor.

I just want to give people a sense of your biography here, which is you're a Republican who's worked on presidential transitions in the past. You weren't a Trump supporter in the primaries, but you wanted to be part of the transition. You did quit the transition because then-candidate Trump rubbed you the wrong way, but you were supportive of the Trump administration and the policies that they were implementing. Is that all true so far?

J.W. VERRET, FORMER TRUMP TRANSITION STAFFER CALLING FOR IMPEACHMENT: That's right. I think a Trump pragmatist is probably the best description.

BERMAN: But something changed. The findings and the writings of the Mueller report changed and now you think impeachment is the way to go. Why?

VERRET: If you look at the report, it's clear it's a referral to Congress to begin impeachment proceedings. That was the only choice left to Mueller after the restrictions placed on him by DOJ policy. So that's what he did. And he outlined potentially 12 colorable claims of obstruction of justice. That was all he needed to do to get an impeachment process started because the impeachment process is sort of like a grand jury process. And there's more than enough here to get that started.

BERMAN: So one of the things that you write that I found very interesting is, you say you wanted to share your experience transitioning from Trump team member to pragmatist, as you just said, about Trump to advocate for his impeachment, because I think many other Republicans are starting to make a similar transition.

Do you really think that's the case? Because the polling seems to show that most Republicans are firmly behind the president. Are you talking to Republicans who say they're starting to flip?

VERRET: I've gotten a lot of feedback from my friends who work on Capitol Hill in the administration who say that they're glad I'm doing what I'm doing. I don't know if they're ready to come out publicly about it yet. Some of them won't be able to. But, at the end of the day, the Mueller report is the top selling book on Amazon. Let's give the American people, including Republican voters, a chance to digest it. Some of them don't read as fast as I do, I guess.

BERMAN: Some people in the administration are reaching out to you saying that they're glad that you're speaking out like this>

VERRET: Yes, absolutely.

BERMAN: In the administration? That's interesting.

VERRET: Yes.

BERMAN: They think it's OK that the president -- they would be in favor, then, of an impeachment?

VERRET: I'll just say most of them say, we're glad we're doing what you're doing. We're proud of you. So that's nice to hear.

BERMAN: All right, I'm going to lean on your legal expertise now, because, interestingly enough, the Democrats have not started a formal impeachment process, but they do want to go forward with hearings, which is something that Hillary -- you're not supportive of Hillary Clinton, are you?

VERRET: No. No, no.

BERMAN: Hillary Clinton, though, in an op-ed says, what we should do is find this middle ground basically between nothing and impeachment, which is, let's start holding hearings. Let's subpoena people like Don McGahn, have him come testify. The president doesn't want McGahn to testify. But just this morning the president claims on Twitter that he never asked McGahn to fire Robert Mueller. Now, the Mueller report says the exact opposite, but do you think McGahn should be compelled to testify?

VERRET: I think it would give him an opportunity to speak up for himself. I think it's incredibly unfair and dishonorable of the president to call Don McGahn a liar and then forbid him an opportunity to speak up for himself in a public forum. I think someone who doesn't give his staff that kind of loyalty doesn't deserve it in return, to be frank.

BERMAN: And you've said that Don McGahn, of all the people in this report and connected to the transition and the administration, he is the one you respect the most?

VERRET: I respect a lot of people in the administration, but I certainly respect his work on policy issues. And after reading the Mueller report, I think he's provided a textbook case for what a good lawyer could do -- should do when faced with a bad client who wants to break the law.

BERMAN: Do you feel the president has waived executive privilege when it comes to Don McGahn testifying before Congress?

VERRET: Yes, 30 hours of testimony seems to be enough for a waiver to me. And not only that, the second order issue you would get into in something like that is, does executive privilege even apply, even if it wasn't waived, because it can't be used to hide criminal activity. But even before we get to that, there's certainly been a waiver after 30 hours of testimony.

BERMAN: I mean you could make a case, I think, that the tweet this morning waives executive privilege. If he's saying that I didn't tell Don McGahn to fire Robert Mueller, the only way Congress can find out if he did is to ask Don McGahn, I would think.

VERRET: There you go. There's all sorts of great tweets that are going to be admissible in court and all sorts of things.

BERMAN: Do you think politically that the Democrats risk too much by launching informal impeachment proceedings?

VERRET: I think that risk aversion is based on using the late '90s as an analogy. That was 20 years ago, before the age of social media. That was a different president who was very good at comebacks in public approval ratings. That was a different set of facts, that though I think were very serious and worthy of impeachment, were not nearly as serious as the potential treason and obstruction of justice here. So, different man, different facts, different time. I think the Democrats -- the Democratic leadership are drawing the wrong lesson.

[08:40:25] BERMAN: What's your message to Republicans in Congress? You have been someone who's worked on Republican transitions before. What are you calling on Republican members to do?

VERRET: I'm not asking them to jump out ahead of this before it's time, I'm not. Because, frankly, it's the Democrat leadership's in the House's job to start this process. They need to have the guts to jump on this. All I'm asking for at this point is, as the hears go forward, ask honest questions. That's it. Don't just do block and tackle for the president to try to prove your loyalty to him when he watches it on TV. Like, I think we saw in some of the Cohen hearings, with some of the witnesses, some of the members of Congress, just ask real questions.

BERMAN: Or just ask questions, which is always good advice to members of Congress in a hearing. Sometimes they forget the -- about the question mark there.

J.W. Verret, great to have you with us. Come back. A really interesting discussion.

VERRET: Thank you.

BERMAN: Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, John, we're learning about another major intelligence failure before those deadly Easter bombings in Sri Lanka. Why were these signs missed?

BERMAN: And a quick programing note. This Sunday night at 10:00 p.m. join W. Kamau Bell for the season four premier of "United Shades of America," only on CNN. I'm very excited Kamau's back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:45:27] BERMAN: New developments in Sri Lanka this morning after the deadly bombings targeting churches and hotels. Catholic services across the capital city of Colombo have been suspended until next Monday out of fears of another attack.

Our Ivan Watson is live in Colombo, where, Ivan, I understand you just spoke with Sri Lanka's prime minister.

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.

That's right. And some pretty startling revelations about what he described as a breakdown of the security apparatus in this country. I asked him about the profile of the suspected suicide bombers that killed at least 500 -- more than 500 people on Easter Sunday. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RANIL WICKREMESINGHE, PRIME MINISTER OF SIR LANKA (ph): They are middle class, upper middle class, well educated, educated abroad. That is surprising because they've been looking at other places for possible ISIS connections. But these people are also know and were being monitored by the intelligence.

WATSON: They -- they were being monitored?

WICKREMESINGHE: They were being monitored by the intelligence.

WATSON: Some of the suicide bombers?

WICKREMESINGHE: Some -- some of them, yes.

WATSON: And yet they were still able to carry out these deadly attacks.

WICKREMESINGHE: Yes. They said -- they said that they didn't have sufficient evidence to take them in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATSON: Let me correct that. They killed at least 359 people, John. Now, he went on to say that he believes he has met at a social function the spice trader, Mohamed Ibrahim, who's been detained on suspicion of aiding the terrorists at a social function. That man's two sons are believed to have been two of the suicide bombers and police sway that they arrested one of these sons last January when they raided a suspected training camp and found 100 kilograms of explosives there.

So, again, a lot of chances to stop the incredible killing that took place last Sunday. And the threats are still out there. As you mentioned, the Catholics church suspending all religious services until at least April 29th for fear of further attacks.

John and Alisyn.

BERMAN: Missed opportunities clearly.

Ivan Watson, thank you so much for that new reporting. Appreciate it.

The Boy Scouts on defense amid alarming new revelations that sexual abuse was more widespread than previously known. What we are now learning about that.

CAMEROTA: But first, more than 1 million Americans are diagnosed with diabetes every year, which could mean, of course, changes to your diet or the diet of someone you love. So in this "Food as Fuel," nutritionist Lisa Drayer shares new ways to master the menu.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA DRAYER, CNN HEALTH CONTRIBUTOR: The secret to diabetic sweet treats is thinking, what foods can I replace, not give up?

Instead of eating sugary snacks, like cookies, candy or cakes, reach for a healthy fat and fruit combo, like a Greek yogurt parfait topped with fresh fruit, cinnamon and chopped walnuts to get your day started.

For a midday snack, you can join a cup of berries with slivered almonds on top. Or apple and banana slices with a nut butter spread. You can also treat yourself to a couple of dark chocolate-dipped strawberries.

These simple food swaps not only taste great but can also prevent your blood sugar from spiking and crashing.

Just remember, portion control is key. As your portion sizes increases, your blood sugar level and calories will increase as well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:53:04] CAMEROTA: We're learning stunning new details this morning about the scale of the sexual abuse scandal that is rocking the Boy Scouts of America. New court documents suggest thousands of volunteers and former leaders were involved in abusing children over the course of seven decades.

CNN's Erica Hill joins us now with more.

Oh, my gosh, the scale is incredible.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: So we're learning more about these records, Alisyn, and it's also -- we're learning how long they have been keeping records, back to the 1920s, to make sure that anybody who was accused of inappropriate behavior with children could not rejoin as a volunteer.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HILL (voice over): Newly revealed court testimony shows more than 7,800 former Boy Scout leaders were removed from the organization over the past 72 years for, quote, reasonable allegations of child sexual abuse.

JEFF ANDERSON, ATTORNEY REPRESENTING SEXUAL ABUSE VICTIMS: When we got this information, we -- we had to sound the alarm.

HILL: That information, exposed as testimony in an unrelated case, is part of the organization's private database of banned volunteers. Records which also identify more than 12,000 alleged child victims in that same period. It's unknown how many other potential victims and abusers have gone unreported.

The attorney who shared the information represents sexual abuse survivors.

ANDERSON: There is and has been a large scale, wholesale cover-up by the Boy Scouts of America.

HILL: The findings, part of testimony from Dr. Janet Warren (ph), an expert hired by the Boy Scouts in 2011 to review their database of banned volunteers and to offer recommendations on how to best protect children from predators.

On a call Wednesday, Warren defending the Boy Scouts, saying the reported abuse rate in the organization is, quote, far less than the rate of incidents in society, and stating clearly she found no evidence of a cover-up.

In a statement to CNN, the Boy Scouts of America expressing support for victims. Nothing is more important than the safety and protection of children in Scouting and we are outraged that there have been times when individuals took advantage of our programs to abuse innocent children. At no time have we ever knowingly allowed a perpetrator to work with youth. And we mandate all volunteers and staff members nationwide immediately report any abuse allegation to law enforcement.

[08:55:20] MARK CRAWFORD, SEXUAL ABUSE VICTIM'S ADVOCATE: If they really felt that way long ago, they wouldn't have kept these secrets, they wouldn't have hidden these files, they wouldn't have allowed children to remain at risk.

HILL: In February, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo signed the Child Victim Act, which allows survivors to file civil lawsuits even after the statute of limitations has passed. New Jersey lawmakers passing a similar bill last month.

GREG GIANFORCARO, ATTORNEY REPRESENTING SEXUAL ABUSE VICTIMS: We absolutely anticipate Governor Murphy signing this bill wholeheartedly and giving these victims in the state, in this great state where I was born and raised, the voice.

HILL: The new law is prompting survivors and those who represent them to encourage others to come forward.

ANDERSON: This is far from complete. And this work has just begun.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: So, on that call yesterday, Dr. Warren and the Boy Scouts saying that they expect her full report, which she's finishing up now, should be out later this year. And I do want to point out, too, we asked specifically about why this information was not public. So part of what they said on that call is, their threshold is much lower than law enforcement. So if it's reported, it doesn't have to be a conviction or a crime for those people to go on their list. CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh, these numbers are staggering.

HILL: They are.

CAMEROTA: Erica, thank you very much for all of that reporting.

All right, Joe Biden is running for president. It's official. How will this impact the race? New developments in the fourth hour of his candidacy, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END