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Joe Biden Tries To Convince Americans He Is The Right Person To Lead The Country; The U.S. Economy Shattering Expectations In The First Quarter. Aired: 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 26, 2019 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: But yes, to see the images and to see the extent of the supplies that they had truly chilling in terms of the bombs, the ball bearings and all the things that they would need to carry out a second wave of attacks, which may still be being plotted right now -- Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Will Ripley, thank you so much. And that is it for me. NEWSROOM starts right now.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, I'm Erica Hill, in today for Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN. Thanks for joining us. As Joe Biden tries to convince Americans he is the right person to lead the country, his past continues to overshadow that pitch, including his handling of the Clarence Thomas hearings and Anita Hill, who faced intense scrutiny as she testified against Thomas before the Senate Judiciary Committee.

The committee of course, which Biden then chaired. Just hours after jumping into the race, we learned that the former Vice President had in fact spoken privately with Hill and according to a Biden spokesperson, he quote "shared with her directly his regret for what she endured and his admiration for everything she has done to change the culture around sexual harassment in this country."

So how did that sit with Anita Hill? Not great. In an interview with "The New York Times" Anita Hill says in part, "I cannot be satisfied by simply saying, I'm sorry for what happened to you. I will be satisfied when I know there is real change and real accountability and real purpose."

Biden was pressed on this issue this morning during an appearance on ABC's "The View." It's his first interview since launching his third bid for President.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANA NAVARRO, COHOST, THE VIEW: I don't know why it took you so long to call her. I wish it had happened earlier.

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Since I had publicly apologized for the way she was treated, I publicly said it. I publicly had given credit for her, what the contribution she made, the change -- began to change this culture in a significant way. That what I didn't want to do and I didn't want to quote "invade her space."

JOY BEHAR, COHOST, THE VIEW: What she wants you to say is I'm sorry for the way I treated you, not for the way you were treated." I think that might be closer.

BIDEN: Well, if you go back and look what I said and didn't say, I don't think I treated her badly. I took on her opposite. What I couldn't figure out how to do and we still haven't figured it out, how do you stop people from asking inflammatory questions? How do you stop these character assassinations?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Dana Bash is CNN's chief political correspondent; Irin Carmon is a senior correspondent with "New York Magazine" who interviewed Anita Hill in 2014. Dana, I want to kick things off with you first, Joe Biden, this morning seemed not only uncomfortable for that question, but unprepared, which is surprising.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Incredibly surprising. Look there, there's so much buzz, as you can imagine, here in Washington about how they do. And the overwhelming feeling among Democrats I've talked to all day, or at least the last couple of hours since it started was bewilderment for the exact reason you just said Erica, why wasn't he ready to just say, succinctly, "I'm sorry," about Anita Hill. "I'm sorry" about what happened with not just Lucy Flores, but other women and men, but the women who have come out and said that his attempts at being empathetic went over the line for them.

And the fact that he kind of talked about it in a much more extensive way, which led him to say things like, I am sorry for what happened to her as if he is an observer and not a participant, although he did if you want, go back and listen and look at the transcript, which I did, he did, at one point did say, "I am sorry," but it was kind of drowned out Erica, by the other sort of lack of -- his lack of ability to say that directly and then just end it there -- you know, drowned that out.

And then on Ana Navarro's question about Anita Hill. That's the other thing. I mean, that's really the key question. What took you so long? And we actually don't know the real answer to that, whether it was last week that he called Anita Hill or last year that he called Anita Hill, we still don't know the answer that, but what took you so long speaks to the question of whether or not he made the call, because he knew politically he had to, to launch the campaign, or made the call because he really wanted to do it.

HILL: And that is an important question that many people would like answered, because it speaks so much to what he actually understands about not only the situation as it is today, and what it was back then.

BASH: Exactly.

HILL: But also how important the perception is. Irin, in your conversations with Anita Hill when you spoke with her and even in this recent interview, this phone call she had with "The New York Times," she made it pretty clear her focus is about changing policy around how sexual harassment is investigated, how it is prosecuted.

You know, Biden talking this morning about he has believed her all along and how much he appreciates everything she has done to move the conversation forward and how much he admires her. That too, is an interesting message.

[14:05:10] HILL: Is he the right messenger for it?

IRIN CARMON, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, NEW YORK MAGAZINE: It's interesting because Erica, it really struck me that he does not appear to have listened at all to anything that Anita Hill has said, you know, she actually has been talking about this very consistently in the same nature that she spoke to "The New York Times" that she spoke to me in 2014.

For quite some time, she wrote about it in her memoir. She talked about it when Joe Biden ran for President in the past, none of this should come as news to Joe Biden. So I think the challenge that he is going to face is that he is in a party that is dominated by women in which black women are the backbone -- the backbone of the Democratic Party. And as far as I can tell, from what he said, on "The View," he has not listened to actually what Anita Hill's critiques are.

And I think it's important to also remember what her critiques were of the way he conducted that hearing. Because to hear Joe Biden talk about it, he's just sort of passive. He's sort of feckless, he had nothing to do with what took place then. But if you go back to the historical record, and the reporting at the time, he was being criticized contemporaneously, for the way he conducted that hearing, and quite relevantly for Democratic voters who are making up their mind about someone to take on Donald Trump, he was completely outmaneuvered by Republicans who instantly realized that they had to politicize this hearing, that they had to put Anita Hill herself on trial, allow her to be denigrated, allow her to be portrayed as crazy or a slutty, and to come out the other side with anger to put Anita Hill on trial.

And in response, Joe Biden kind of waffled. He really didn't know what to do. He was tormented. And he actually most crucially failed to call three women, Rose Jourdain, Angela Wright and Sukari Hardnett, who were all willing to testify to corroborate Professor Hill's account.

And so I think that we're looking at really specific structural critiques of how he conducted that hearing; choices that he made, both on a personal level when it came to Anita Hill, and also in making sure that she had due process. And it's so striking to me that none of this is new, right? This is something that she has spoken about consistently for years. And yet, today, it was all focused on, "Well, I didn't do anything and I don't know what she means."

HILL: Should he -- should there be some credit given to him for making that call? CARMON: I guess, I would just wonder why was that call -- according

to "The New York Times," it was in the last couple of weeks and to me that makes it -- that that sounds more like a box checking exercise than it seems like real accountability and real accountability would actually be to listen to what the critiques are, and to directly address them whether you think they're fair or not.

HILL: So you know, it's interesting, you talk about listening, and I think we have a little bit more sound that we can play where he was asked before the topic of Anita Hill came up this morning. The former Vice President was asked whether he was sorry about what happened with Ms. Flores and the other instances that women have since come to light talking about it. I think we have some of that sound. Let's play that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUNNY HOSTIN, COHOST, THE VIEW: Are you sorry for what you did? Are you prepared to apologize to those women?

BIDEN: Look, here's the deal, I have to be -- and everybody has to be much more aware of the private space of men and women. But I don't think anyone has ever said that I invade their space in a way that was designed to do something other than making them feel uncomfortable, but not anything having to do with harassment or anything, right?

HOSTIN: They have said that but they also said, "We'd like an apology."

BIDEN: Well, look, I'm really sorry, if what I did in talking to them and trying to console that, in fact, they took it a different way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: So really, there are two things that I want to drill down on there, Dana, it's the "I'm sorry if ..." it's almost like when you're teaching your kids what they need to do to apologize. I always have this conversation with them of, you can't say sorry, just to say sorry. I want you to understand what's happening here. That's one part of it. And the other part that's related is about listening that Irin brought up because he went on to say, "It's really important we listen and understand what people are going through. Is there a sense, Dana that he has listened and that he does understand at this point?

BASH: You know, I mean, that's getting into his head and it's hard to give a real answer based on what he said today because he kind of said one thing and then said another thing to contradict it.

But on that point, that initial point of what you talk to your kids about in saying I'm sorry, that's what I meant when we started this segment, Erica, which is he got as close I think as he got it in the whole interview at that point that you just played by saying, "I am sorry for ..." you know, so on and so forth. But just if you really are sorry to say I'm sorry, and say it robustly and forcefully and leave it there and don't qualify it or put anything else in there and the fact --

[14:10:10] BASH: Look, the fact that we are talking about this now, on day two of his presidential run is something that I'm sure that they expected, at least in some corners, I know that they did have the Biden campaign. But it's still certainly not where he wanted to be as the introduction.

It is the beginning of a very long marathon and so he can get this out of the way in some ways, and then move forward. Except there are lots of examples in recent history where somebody has something that they can't get over initially, and they can't kind of escape from that.

So we'll see how this one plays out. But it also speaks to, if you bring it up to sort of 10,000 feet, Erica, that this is a man who has been in in public life for decades, for more than a generation and has been a part of and been you know, part of the scene as culture has shifted dramatically. And there are candidates who are running against him who don't have that baggage. And so for people who don't like this about him, they have lots of other options.

HILL: Dana, Irin, good to have both of you with us this afternoon. Thank you.

CARMON: Thanks, Erica.

HILL: The U.S. economy shattering expectations in the first quarter. The GDP growing at a rate of 3.2 percent, now, that is far above the projected 2.1 percent. Good news for President Trump, who is taking a victory lap touting those numbers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The country, though, is doing very well in every respect. I mean, we're just doing well, we're knocking it out of the park, as they say. GDP is an incredible number. But remember this not only that, we have a great growth, which is growth. We have great growth, and also very, very low inflation. Our economy is doing great. Number one in the world. We're the number one economy right now in the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: CNN business correspondent Alison Kosik joins us now. Okay, so the number is much higher than expected, as we saw --

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, lower than by even some seasoned economists' expectations.

HILL: Right, more than a full point higher. Where'd all that come from? This is great news. Right?

KOSIK: It is great news. You know, usually when you look at the first quarter of any year for GDP, the first quarter is usually the weakest. So this happens to be the strongest first quarter that we've seen in six years. Okay, so what powered this? Well, business investment increased. Exports increased state and

local government spending that jumped and also consumer spending went up as well. It went at a slower pace, but it did increase.

Now, a few caveats here. Because if you look beyond that headline number, if you're a little skeptical, you're going to wonder how sustainable are these figures? So you take, for instance, the spiking government spending, was that just the one off? Also some of what went into that GDP number included inventories. That buildup of inventories. So how sustainable is that? So you've got a few critics who are saying, "Look, are we going to see the same momentum when it comes to the second quarter?"

And keep in mind, this figure still has to be revised another couple of times, before we get the final revision? We're getting that first revision on May 3rd.

HILL: We should point out, though, the first -- what was it? Nearly, the first full month of that quarter --

KOSIK: Good point.

HILL: Was when we were dealing with shut down, right? So that I mean, that must factor in in some respects.

KOSIK: Yes, that was a historic government shutdown, as you see, that continued throughout a third almost of the quarter. And it's shaved off about point 3 percent of GDP. So not a huge amount, but it did take a little bit of a slice. So you would have seen it higher if the government shutdown wasn't in effect.

HILL: We just heard from the President a little bit. He has been touting the economy numbers as well, at his speech to the NRA earlier, here's more of that. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Our economy is now the hottest anywhere on the planet earth. If we kept the same interest rates and the same quantitative easing, that the previous administration had, that 3.2 would have been much higher than that, but they hadn't hit these numbers in 16 years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOSIK: Okay, well, that's a little dangerous, because you don't want to have quantitative easing when you've got a hot economy. When we have that quantitative easing, we were in the middle of a recession, we were in the middle of a banking crisis, and a subprime mortgage crisis. So there were extraordinary measures taken to prop up the economy. So you don't want to see that.

Now, where this discussion is going, as we see growth really, really taking hold in the first quarter of 2019, something we're not seeing in other countries like Japan, Europe and China, we are seeing the U.S. really as a bright spot at this point. Now the focus is going back to the Fed. Okay, so the Fed is saying, "Look, we're not going to raise interest

rates for the entirety of 2019." So that's making some people scratch their heads. Well, where's the risk of maybe seeing an economy that's overheating? And then you've got the President pressuring Jay Powell, Fed Chief to go ahead and cut rates? Well, I would say a rate cut after seeing this growth for the first quarter, a rate cut is certainly off the table.

[14:15:17] HILL: All right, Alison, always good to see you. Thank you. He is not even 24 hours into his campaign, but Joe Biden already seeing shots from his rivals. Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, going after the newest challenger. Why these particular feuds though, actually go back years. Plus, just into CNN, the FBI, we're learning, will meet with officials in Florida about suspected election hacking that was detailed in the Mueller report, and a Coast Guard officer accused of plotting a domestic terror attack now set for release. So what's being done to keep the public safe?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:20:10] HILL: We are keeping a very close eye on the calendar. Exactly two months now away from the first Democratic primary debate. The gloves, however, appear to already be off and the target is clear. It is the newest Democratic challenger, former Vice President Joe Biden. Senator Elizabeth Warren questioning his ties to Wall Street.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: At a time when the biggest financial institutions in this country were trying to put the squeeze on millions of hard working families who were in bankruptcy, there was nobody to stand up for them. I got in that fight, because they just didn't have any money. And Joe Biden is on the side of credit card companies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Senator Bernie Sanders' campaign meantime, in an e-mail to supporters attacking Biden for holding a fundraiser in the home of a corporate lobbyist. Joining me now, CNN political director, David Chalian. David, so as we look at these first two attacks that have been fired here, is this going to be effective moving forward?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, let's first be clear about what this means right? Joe Biden is the big dog in this race. Because when you get in the race, and you instantly draw fire from both your primary opponents and President Trump, all on the same day, it shows you are a target because of how much you are seen as a formidable foe in this race.

Here's what's so interesting to me, Erica about these lines of attack, Elizabeth Warren, at our Town Hall on Monday night started drawing this contrast, didn't mention Biden by name, then yesterday, he got the race she mentioned him by name. It's from the most -- in terms of these comments -- It's from the most progressive folks in the party, right? The Warren, Sanders wing and to benefit their own candidacies, they're trying to draw the biggest contrast possible and paint Joe Biden on day one of his campaign as sort of the centrist corporatist establishment Democrat. They want to immediately carve out some ground with progressive saying, "He is not one of us." That's what they're attempting to do there.

HILL: I'm getting the feeling, David that 2020 is going to feel very 20th Century in a number of ways, because there's so much that we can look back to. And part of that, too, is not just what we're hearing from obviously, Senator Warren. But also Biden is already being criticized for helping to craft the 1994 Crime Bill, which has been blamed of course, for fueling an era of mass incarceration. Here he was talking about it on the Senate floor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: It doesn't matter whether or not they were deprived as a youth. It doesn't matter not whether or not they had no background that enabled them to have -- to become social -- become socialized into the fabric of society. It doesn't matter whether or not they're the victims of society. The end result is they're about to knock my mother on the head with a lead pipe, shoot my sister, beat up my wife, take it on my sons. So I don't want to ask what made them do this, they must be taken off the street.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Now Sanders, of course, voted for that bill, partly because it contained a 10-year assault weapons ban, but now says he regrets it. In '91, though, he voted against a bill aimed at cracking down on crime. So let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've got a problem with a president that a Congress which allows five million children to go hungry, two million people to sleep out on the streets, cities that become breeding grounds for drugs and violence. And they say we're getting tough on crime. If you all want to get tough on crime, let's deal with the causes of crime. Let's demand that every man, woman and child in this country have a decent opportunity at a decent standard of living.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: As we look back at all of this, Joe Biden, of course, saying he has changed his stance on these issues. Does Bernie Sanders get to claim he's on the right side of history?

CHALIAN: Well, he will certainly make that case as you noted, that's not where his vote was on the '94 Crime Bill. Just stepping back for a moment, Erica, I looked at that and said, "Wow, here's one advantage Pete Buttigieg at 37 has." This is not a videotape of him with some long record. But when you've got the two front runners in Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders, who have been on the public stage for quite some time, there's a lot of videotape votes and quotes to dig through. Joe Biden earlier this year went to Al Sharpton's National Action

Network and acknowledged in reference to the Crime Bill that they didn't get everything right, is what he said. That won't be the end of his comments here. I am sure throughout this campaign, this is an issue he is going to have to address.

We watched Hillary Clinton, whose husband obviously was President at the time that that bill passed, had to address this time and time again throughout her entire 2016 candidacy as this issue of Criminal Justice Reform has become so prominent in American politics today and certainly inside the Democratic Party. And so this is something Joe Biden will have to continue has become so prominent in American politics today and certainly inside the Democratic Party. And so this is something Joe Biden will have to contend with as he goes forward.

[14:25:10] HILL: I also want to just get your take on these very strong GDP numbers, the growth numbers out today. The President touting them, not surprising there as he should, how should Democrats approach that? Do we have a sense of how they're going to handle that?

CHALIAN: It's a good question. And you're right, the President should tout these numbers. They're really strong. And if he is to get reelected next year, it is going to have to be in large part because the economy is doing so well that voters who are skeptical about his behavior in office are still willing to stick with him. So it's critical to him.

Democrats, as you know, they're trying to make an argument that Donald Trump and his policies only takes care of the wealthy and not the middle class or lower class, low income Americans. So their argument is a class argument that Donald Trump is in it for his rich cronies that may have resonance. I am sure that it will have some resonance out in the country. But if the economy overall continues to do well, and if people at all income brackets feel the benefits of that that argument may get tougher for the Democrats to get a full hearing on.

HILL: David Chalian, always appreciate it. Good to see. Thanks.

CHALIAN: Sure. You, too.

HILL: A measles outbreak has quarantined nearly 300 people at two universities in California. President Trump also weighing in now on anti-vaxxers. Plus, he is accused of plotting terror attacks against politicians and journalists, had an arsenal for war. And now, this Coast Guard officer is set to walk free. Why is the judge making that decision? And is the public at risk?

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