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Joe Biden Takes Aim at Trump, Dem Rivals Pounce on Biden; Deputy A.G. Rod Rosenstein Defends Handling of Russia Probe; The Atlantic: Mulvaney Says He's Having Fun in the White House. Aired 6- 6:30a ET

Aired April 26, 2019 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was his first fundraiser. He talked about the concern that the values of this country are at stake.

[05:59:38] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At all times, he's going to be aiming at Trump.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (via phone): When you look at Joe, he's not the brightest bulb in the group.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joe Biden has questions to answer just like every other candidate.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The president says he's going to block all of these subpoenas. They're saying that he has the right to do this.

TRUMP: I could have said nobody is going to testify. They do what I say.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You must respect the constitutional checks and balances. Trump is putting his own people in grave jeopardy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. This is NEW DAY. Happy Friday. It is April 26, 6 a.m. here in New York.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: What could possibly go wrong?

CAMEROTA: No, today is going to be a good day.

BERMAN: Excellent.

CAMEROTA: And it's a big day, because the 2020 race has changed in just the past 24 hours.

Former vice president Joe Biden making a splash by taking direct aim at President Trump. And now some of Biden's Democratic rivals are taking aim at him.

CNN has learned that President Trump is irked by the coverage the Democratic field is generating and that the president is asking a lot of questions about Biden's strength as a candidate

BERMAN: So Biden is in. And the question this morning is, now what? What will he say when he holds his first campaign interview on "The View" in just a few hours? How will he handle the new criticism from some of his Democratic opponents, including Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren? And how will he address new questions about his treatment of Anita Hill when he chaired the hearings for Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, whom Hill accused of sexual harassment.

We learned that a few weeks ago, Biden had a phone conversation with Anita Hill, where he discussed regrets for what she endured. Now, in some ways, he's had 28 years to prepare for this conversation. But apparently, that was not enough. Hill tells "The New York Times" she' is not satisfied and isn't sure she sees real change and accountability.

Want to begin with CNN's Arlette Saenz, here in New York with the top Biden story. Biden is here. He's coming on "The View" in a few hours. So you're chasing him. It's taken you here.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, thanks for having me. He's going to be here in New York on "The View." And right out of the gate, Joe Biden made his campaign about taking on Donald Trump, calling this a battle for the soul of the nation.

But before he gets to Trump, Biden has to navigate that crowded Democratic field; and his long record is coming into focus.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hey, guys. You all came for pizza?

SAENZ (voice-over): Joe Biden shaking up an already crowded primary.

(on camera): How does it feel to be the frontrunner?

BIDEN: Well, it's real early. I'll tell you what. The issue is going to be who -- not only who can win this, but who's the best person to lead the country?

SAENZ: CNN has learned that Biden's candidacy is making President Trump fearful. The former vice president's early campaign plan targeting voters in the Rust Belt and Midwest, living in traditionally blue states like Pennsylvania that Trump flipped in 2016.

Sources tell CNN Biden is a frequent topic within President Trump's political meetings; and the president spent months polling advisers on Biden's chances of winning the Democratic primary.

Another strategy: Trump working to highlight internal divides between the former vice president and other candidates within the field . TRUMP: It looks like the only non-sort of heavy socialist, he's being taken care of pretty well by the socialists. They got to him. Our former vice president.

SAENZ: President Trump warning of a nasty primary, writing, "If you make it, I will see you at the starting gates."

Inside a Delaware pizza shop, Biden's response, short.

BIDEN: Everybody knows Donald Trump.

SAENZ: Hours later, Biden still on Trump's mind in a late-night interview with FOX News.

TRUMP (via phone): I think that, you know, when you look at Joe, I have -- I've known Joe over the years. He's not the brightest lightbulb in the group. He's a pretty sleepy guy.

BIDEN: Tell the General I said hello, will you?

SAENZ: Within hours of being in the race, Biden's past is exposing potential vulnerabilities, including his handling of Anita Hill's testimony during the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings.

Biden expressing regret for Hill's treatment at an event last month.

BIDEN: To this day, I regret I couldn't come up with a way to get her the kind of hearing she deserved.

SAENZ: Biden's campaign says he recently reached out to Hill.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a private discussion, but they have spoken.

SAENZ: Hill says it wasn't enough, telling "The New York Times," quote, "I cannot be satisfied by simply saying, 'I'm sorry for what happened to you.' I will be satisfied when I know there is real change and real accountability."

With a late start to the race, Biden capped his first day on the trail with a fundraiser in Philadelphia at the home of a media executive.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAENZ: The focus will now turn to how much Biden raised in the first 24 hours; and he'll have his first interview, appearing on "The View" later this morning. On -- on Monday, he will have his first campaign event over in Pittsburgh. It's going to be a busy few weeks for Joe Biden.

CAMEROTA: Fascinating. And it will be fascinating to watch what happens today on "The View." I wouldn't call that a hostile environment that he's going to.

BERMAN: No.

CAMEROTA: I mean, even the Republicans on "The View" have said how much they love him. You know, they have a long history with him.

BERMAN: Well, no, like Meghan McCain --

CAMEROTA: That's right.

BERMAN: -- and Joe Biden have a relationship.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely.

BERMAN: A long relationship. You know, McCain -- Biden spoke at McCain's funeral. So --

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. Thank you, Arlette.

BERMAN: All right. Thank you, Arlette.

CAMEROTA: All right. Stay with us, of course. Don't go anywhere from this set. We're not allowing you to. Also joining us is M.J. Lee, CNN political correspondent; and John Avlon, CNN senior political analyst.

Arlette, I want to go back to you, because Biden himself said the first 24 hours would be critical of his race. He had this big fundraiser in Philadelphia last night. You were there. How did it go? Did he raise the money that they had hoped to?

[06:05:06] SAENZ: Well, it's unclear. The campaign hasn't revealed exactly how much that specific fundraiser, how much they were able to bring in.

But he stood there in the backyard of a media executive, of an executive from Comcast. And it was a few dozen people who were there. And he talked about many of those same themes that you saw in that campaign video about the battle for the soul of the country.

And he really, you know, was trying to make this an argument that he is the person that can bring stability back to the way that the country is run.

And towards the end, there was this quote where he said, "I'm always going to be honest with you. I'm always going to tell you the truth," saying you know, "That can be good and bad. Sometimes I say more than I mean." But then at the very end of that, he said, "I make no apologies for the fact that I always say what I mean." And I think that graphic is up right now, where you can see.

But Biden really speaking to that crowd. There's going to be a lot of focus in these first days, how much money he can actually raise when it comes to small donors and grassroots fundraising fundraising. That's somewhere where Biden is not exactly as experienced as some of the other candidates, like Bernie Sanders. But there's going to be a lot of focus in these first few moments about the money.

BERMAN: So the rollout had the video, which was dramatic and made a big splash, where he took on Donald Trump directly and brought up Charlottesville. He has endorsements, perhaps more endorsements than any other candidate, more high-profile endorsements.

Let me throw it up on the screen, just so people can see. Senators from Delaware, obviously -- Chris Coons, Tom Carper. Bob Casey, Doug Jones from Alabama, Dianne Feinstein from California. Cedric Richmond, who is the former chair of the Congressional Black Caucus, who may be the most interesting in some ways to endorse him, and a number of others. Endorsements, some people see them as old-school. Nevertheless, they're still important. But M.J., he is showing his establishment credentials here.

M.J. LEE, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And I think the former vice president has probably more built-in establishment support than anybody else who has gotten in so far. And we know that the count is now up to around 20 Democrats. And that is going to be a big advantage for him.

And I think, actually, the number of endorsements actually fits really well into the narrative that he was trying to show yesterday with that video.

He is -- Joe Biden is many, many things. He has a lot of qualifications. And it was incredibly telling that, with that first video he decided not to talk about his Senate record, not to talk about his foreign policy credentials or even his working-class roots. He decided to talk about Trump.

And a part of that message was to be able to say, "My campaign is going to be a general-election campaign, and it is going to be singularly focused on taking on President Trump and telling the American people that the America that we have seen under President Trump is not the America that I stand for."

And I think the endorsements really, really back that up.

CAMEROTA: Go ahead, John.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, look, it highlights the fact that Biden is uniquely respected for someone who spent that long on the Hill. It's not simply that he's the former vice president. He has real reservoirs of respect and affection across the aisle.

One of the things you'll see on "The View" today, the affection from Meghan McCain and her family and respect. That is not typical in our hyperpartisan, polarized environment.

Obviously, yes, M.J.'s exactly right. He's making a general election argument. He's saying, "This is why I'm getting in the race."

And I think it highlights the fact one of his greatest strengths is that Donald Trump is a genius at defining people, usually through insults. The play they've been running, the negative partisanship playbook that they are preparing -- where all Democrats are socialists and radicals -- don't -- doesn't work for Joe Biden. And that's a real asset he's going to take maximum advantage of.

Will he have stumbles out of the gate? Sure. He already has.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

AVLON: But that's a real asset.

CAMEROTA: OK. So in the first 24 hours there is already criticism, high-profile criticism. And we've learned that there was this phone call between Joe Biden and Anita Hill sometime in the past few weeks.

And they have very different interpretations of the upshot of this phone call.

AVLON: Yes.

CAMEROTA: I think that Vice President Biden said that he thought it went well and that he had apologized. And that's not what she heard, basically.

And what she -- because I think that when you say -- hold on. When you say, "I'm sorry for what happened to you." OK, so here's what she says: "I cannot be satisfied by simply saying, 'I'm sorry for what happened to you.' I will be satisfied when I know there is real change and real accountability and real purpose."

And John, to your point, I mean, yes, he's had 28 years, I guess, for that phone call. However, there's been a cataclysm in the past two years. OK? So in the past two years is where all the sand has shifted with the #MeToo movement.

And so in the past two years, perhaps he could have crafted something that said, "I'm sorry for how I conducted myself, for how I handled myself during that hearing."

LEE: And the statement from a spokesperson to Biden, it said that he expressed regret for what she endured. And that's something that you've heard from him repeatedly.

He was -- really, this first came into -- resurfaced in the spotlight right in the wake of the #MeToo movement in 2017. And he was asked about his handling of Anita Hill. And that's when he said, you know, "I owe her an apology."

And then you've seen over the past two years. Just different variations of that, saying, "I express regret for the way -- for the way she was treated."

[06:10:03] But what Biden's critics want to see is an actual apology for his actions and the way he handled that. And you saw that in Anita Hill's interview with "The New York Times" and also saying that she is not ready or will be unable to support Biden unless he actually accepts responsibility for what he did.

BERMAN: There's two things here that I think are fascinating. No. 1 is the language he continues to choose to use. We heard it in public: "I'm sorry I couldn't give her a better hearing," which is different than saying, "I didn't give her a better hearing." So what are you sorry for exactly, Vice President Biden? He needs to answer that.

And the second thing here is process, and I know some people don't like process, but I find this fascinating. How is it the new Biden campaign let this be the story yesterday? Right? They knew there was one thing that they had to make sure was taken care of, maybe before he got in or a few days after he got in. They had this video rollout. You know, the glow for the video rollout lasted six hours, M.J., before this broke.

LEE: Well, and perhaps they thought that it was taken care of, that a phone call like that, that happened a couple of days before he announced, was enough. And that the message that he sent to her was enough.

But clearly, in her own words, the were -- the apology, or the non- apology, was not enough. And I think this Anita Hill episode is a tough reality check for Joe Biden, that as much as he would like to fast forward to the general election, that is not the reality. He cannot do that. It is April of 2019, and he needs to get through the primary process.

And through that primary process, a whole lot of things from Joe Biden's past is going to come back and haunt him. Whether they are the policy positions that he has taken, whether they are ways in which he has conducted himself, including in the Anita Hill hearings, these are all things that are going to get litigated again.

AVLON: Yes. Steven Collins (ph) at CNN.com had a great line: "Biden is In, The Knives are Out."

Elizabeth Warren has deep-seated policy differences going back to his -- what she says a defense of credit-card companies, representing Delaware.

Bernie Sanders known to play really rough ball behind the scenes. You know, and some of the early negative stories about Biden may or may not have been pushed by a lot of these candidates.

So these are going to be folks on a general -- he opponents obviously aren't going to just give him a pass, even though he's got an reservoir of affection and definition of the most.

Was it an unforced error out of the gate? Absolutely. The most anticipatable thing in the world.

Was Anita Hill ever going to be a Biden supporter in this primary? No, probably not. And let's not forget: Biden voted against Clarence Thomas. That sometimes gets lost.

I'm not sure this is what mainstream America is going to wake up saying was the biggest takeaway from Biden's first day on the campaign trail, but it's a sign of the baggage he's got. That's the negative flip side of having so much time in the public service.

AVLON: The Bernie Sanders thing is fascinating. Sometimes it's behind the scenes. Sometimes it's not so behind the scenes. Sometimes it comes in a campaign email that they send out that everyone can read. This is what the Sanders campaign said yesterday.

"It's a big day in the Democratic primary, and we're hoping to end it strong. Not with a fundraiser in the home of a corporate lobbyist -- "

CAMEROTA: That's specific.

BERMAN: Let that hang out there for a second. "But with an overwhelming number of individual donations in response to today's news."

So Bernie, his people are saying it's on.

SAENZ: Completely. And friends and supporters of Biden's that I've spoken to have said that he's fully prepared for all of these attacks. He was expecting, not just from President Trump. But he knows that he is going to be the target of all of the Democratic primary rivals now that he is officially in the race.

And pretty soon you're also going to have to see Joe Biden start to unveil some policy positions. You know, he hasn't really weighed in on the big debates that have been animating the Democratic primaries so far. So Medicare for all, the Green New Deal. Reparations is another issue he's going to have to touch on. Impeachment.

We haven't actually heard what he thinks about that in light of the Mueller report. So there are real big questions about where Biden stands. And he's going to have to start to answer some of those in the coming days.

BERMAN: All right, guys. Thank you all very much. Great to see you. Have fun at "The View."

Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein taking on his critics and defending how the Russia investigation -- at least his part of it -- was handled. We'll tell you what he's now saying. That's next.

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[06:17:43] BERMAN: Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein overnight defending himself and his handling of the Mueller probe, really while taking on his critics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROD ROSENSTEIN, U.S. DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: I did pledge to do it right and to take it to the appropriate conclusion. I did not promise to report all results to the public. Because as my fellow U.S. attorneys know well, grand jury investigations are ex-parte proceedings. It's not our job to render conclusive factual findings. We just decide whether it's appropriate to file criminal charges.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: John Avlon is back with us. Also joining us now, Elaina Plott, CNN political analyst and White House correspondent for "The Atlantic"; and Frank Bruni, CNN contributor and "New York Times" op-ed columnist.

And Frank, this speech that Rod Rosenstein gave overnight to the Armenian Bar Association.

AVLON: As one does.

BERMAN: As one does. Was fascinating, because he seemed to be taking on critics from all sides, defending his role in all of this, saying, "I'm the one who did it all right."

Look, he was critical of Obama administration for not taking Russia more seriously. He was critical of people like Donald Trump, inadvertently, for not directly, for saying that the investigation, the independent counsel investigation shouldn't have happened.

But one of the things that jumped out to me was how serious he said the Russian attacks were.

FRANK BRUNI, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: A hundred percent, yes. He said we haven't even heard all of it in the Mueller report. But that is a part of the Mueller report that I fear has been obscured by all of our -- all of our looking at how Trump behaved and did he obstruct justice, did he attempt, whatever.

Beyond all of that, what Donald Trump hasn't done as president is address this interference and take steps to make sure it doesn't happen again. Because as we know, he can't do that without feeling like the legitimacy of his election has been questioned.

Going forward, long term, that's a really, really serious thing. And I think years from now, when we look back at this episode, when we look at the Mueller report, which went into this in great detail, I think we're going to be talking as much about the absolute complacency, you know, the cavalierness about what happened in 2016 and how to protect the American democratic system.

CAMEROTA: But I mean, his administration says he's doing it. So he is not personally doing it, but the people around him say that they're taking steps.

BRUNI: Alisyn, do you believe for a nanosecond that when the person at the top is not enthusiastically urging that and, in fact, won't even talk about it that the people below him can do what they --?

CAMEROTA: We've asked the question a million times. And for instance, Secretary Nielsen, Kirstjen Nielsen said that she had to convene her own meetings with other intel agencies. So they're trying -- it would help if the person at the top were on board, but do I think the DNI is -- Dan Coats is doing it? Yes. And I think they're trying to do things.

[06:20:09] BRUNI: He's doing it as best he can without the proper backing and support.

AVLON: Yes, the story of this administration is an effort to contain the president and -- and carry on the business of government outside the president's worst instincts.

The problem is, we know that Donald Trump doesn't want to deal with Russian interference. And that will be one of the things that is the probably most damning in the eyes of history, because it's an area where he could unite the nation. But instead, people in his administration tried to go around the president and the White House. Because as we saw Jared Kushner with the same issue. This is just really an irritation.

And the Mueller report, even the stuff we've seen is a damning indictment of how extensive, much more extensive, and much more pro- Trump and anti-Hillary than had previously been reported.

BRUNI: The deputy attorney general is saying, as extensive as those details are in the Mueller report he's saying that only scratched the surface. Sources and methods.

BERMAN: John Avlon just gave us a really good segue into Elaina Plott here, when John said the story of this administration has been trying to contain the president.

Well, maybe the story up until this point. Because there's a new sheriff in town when it comes to being chief of staff. And that's -- well, I should say acting sheriff, Elaina. Sorry, acting sheriff Mick Mulvaney, who's the chief of staff.

You've got a really interesting article with big fat quotes from Mick Mulvaney on how he sees his job as chief of staff. And man, I have to say, it's a lot different. You know, he said, "Often, Mulvaney said, the president is not telling aides 'to do something illegal'; he's 'just giving ideas on what his priorities are and what he wants to accomplish.'"

That's how he's explaining why he's letting Trump be Trump.

ELAINA PLOTT, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I remember when he told me that, and I thought, OK, so sometimes illegal requests? Just, you know, a sliver of the time out of all of our days in the White House?

But no, I mean, you're absolutely right. And Mick Mulvaney was quite candid with me in his trashing of John Kelly. What he said was general Kelly's institution of a place in which morale was quite low in the White House. He said now senior staff meetings are more of a free-for-all. White House official told me that they're hanging from the rafters now in Mick Mulvaney's office.

It's kind of more closely resembling what Reince Priebus's time in the White House looked like. A lot more freewheeling. Mick Mulvaney said that he doesn't want information to be a currency in this White House. But above all, what I think is so important to communicate to viewers of this segment is that Mick Mulvaney is a really ambitious guy.

I mean, he's had essentially three titles in this administration thus far. And sources say that he's already looking on to see at what point he could maybe succeed Wilbur Ross as commerce secretary. One senior House GOP aide told me that he is a master of self-

preservation. So when he says that he would like to help Trump be Trump and just sort of give him the tools he needs to be the kind of president he wants to be and lead the way he wants to. That's Mick Mulvaney looking out for No. 1, not necessarily the president

AVLON: Sure. And look, it's a great profile on it. And everyone should read it.

But Mulvaney -- Mulvaney is a master of self-preservation at the expense of anything resembling principle. And only in the Trump administration would -- would a stint as commerce secretary be seen as a step up in terms of peace of mind and career trajectory from the chief of staff in the White House.

The problem, of course, is that we know from the Mueller report that basically, Donald Trump's bacon was saved by aides who tried to contain his worst instincts.

PLOTT: Exactly.

AVLON: And not execute them. So when you have someone who says "My survival game is based on being the biggest sycophant possible in this position," that actually doesn't help the president or the administration or the country.

CAMEROTA: A couple of quotes that I want to read from Elaina's great piece. So this is -- he is not mincing words about his predecessor, John Kelly. I mean, he goes out of his way, Elaina, it sounds, to criticize him.

So here's just one. "It was an experiment gone bad," he says. I think -- I just think it's very hard to cultivate a healthy work environment when somebody near the top lets everybody know that they hate their job."

So Frank, the experiment gone bad was, I guess, trying to exert some control in the traffic of the White House.

One more thing, because I know your love of food that I share.

BRUNI: Oh, thank you.

CAMEROTA: This is the physical effect that the job has had on Mick Mulvaney. "He cheerfully extolled his relationship with Trump, joking that he's gained ten pounds since becoming chief. 'I eat more with the president now,' he said. 'He eats hamburgers all the time.'"

BRUNI: Well, yes. This also is the president who greets people with vast volumes of fast food spread out, right?

But I just -- it is, by the way, it is a great -- congratulations to Elaina; it's a great profile.

The idea of the White House as a place of high morale, that to me doesn't pass the smell test or even begin to. Come on. I mean, the vast and bruised Trump administration diaspora attest to what it's like to work in this administration. You know, let's ask Kirstjen Nielsen. Let's ask Rex Tillerson. For that matter, let's ask John Kelly.

AVLON: One of the great lines as when Mulvaney said, "Look, any of us could be fired at any time." You know, it's like, "We got no job security here, and it's totally capricious. I'm just going to go on and hope I can become the next commerce secretary."

BERMAN: If his desire is to get more power, as John says, he wants to do it one hamburger at a time. Eating your way --

AVLON: That's right.

BERMAN: -- into the cabinet.

AVLON: Eat yourself fitter.

[06:25:03] BERMAN: But Elaina, what about Alisyn's point here, and John's point and Frank's point here, which is that if, when you read the Mueller report, you take away that it was only the presence of people saying either no to the president -- not directly but not carrying out his actions. If those people are gone and that attitude is gone, is the president, is the country in some kind of new jeopardy?

PLOTT: I do think you have to consider the implications of this notion that, when it comes to Trump's guardrails, I mean, they are gone.

I think, you know, one way I thought of Mick Mulvaney was the ability Don McGahn. Think of it this way. Were Mick Mulvaney, as I interviewed him, was in many ways, as the anti-Don McGahn.

I mean, think about it this way, where Mick Mulvaney holding Don McGahn's position which, theoretically, he could, because he does have a J.D. And Donald Trump had called him and said, "I want you to fire Robert Mueller immediately."

I'm not sure that Mick Mulvaney would even blanch at that thought. I think he would immediately pick up the phone and give the orders needed to make sure that Mueller was swiftly gone.

I don't think you would see something like Don McGahn's slow walking the president's orders and assuming that he just won't bring it up at some point in the near future.

CAMEROTA: All right.

AVLON: Then you have obstruction.

BRUNI: I was just going to say, the idea that letting Trump be Trump is a good thing, letting Trump be Trump is letting a despot bloom. Right? That's what it is.

CAMEROTA: On that note, Frank, Elaina, John, thank you all. PLOTT: Have a great Friday, everyone.

CAMEROTA: You, too. Thanks for the perspective.

All right. So arson investigators are searching for clues after two fires at one Pennsylvania church. We'll tell you what we know, next.

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