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Biden Spoke to Anita Hill, But She's Says Sorry Is Not Good Enough; Former Virginia Governor Terry McAuliffe Weighs in on Biden's Chances. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired April 26, 2019 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, a guy named Tom Brady.

[07:00:03] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you very much, Andy Scholes. Appreciate it.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Thank you.

Thanks to our international viewers for watching. For you, CNN TALK is next. And for our U.S. viewers, the 2020 race changed in one day with Joe Biden. We'll bring you all the developments when NEW DAY continues.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was his first fundraiser. He talked about the concern that the values of this country are at stake.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At all times, he's going to be aiming at Trump.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When you look at Joe, he's not the brightest bulb in the group.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joe Biden has questions to answer, just like every other candidate.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE ANALYST: The president says he's going to block all of these subpoenas. They're saying that he has the right to do this.

TRUMP (via phone): I could have said nobody is going to testify. They do what I say.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You must respect the constitutional checks and balances. Trump is putting his own people in grave jeopardy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

BERMAN: All right. Good morning. And welcome to your NEW DAY. What a difference a day makes. The 2020 race. It's a whole different ball game right now, fundamentally changed since Joe Biden jumped into the contest. He wasted no time, the former vice president taking direct aim at

President Trump, really framing his entire candidacy around that. Now, though, some of Biden's Democratic rivals, the one he was trying to perhaps jump past, they're starting to talk about his record. And CNN has learned that President Trump himself is irked that the Democratic field is making the big headlines right now. And the president, he's asking a lot of questions about Biden's strength as a candidate.

CAMEROTA: Biden's candidacy is -- has exposed a vulnerability. His campaign has revealed that he had a conversation with Anita Hill where he discussed regrets for, quote, "what she endured" when he chaired the hearings for Clarence Thomas, whom Anita Hill accused of sexual harassment. Hill says Biden still does not understand the damage that he caused.

BERMAN: Joining us now, Arlette Saenz, CNN political reporter covering the Biden campaign; David Gregory, CNN political analyst; and Michael Smerconish, host of CNN's "SMERCONISH."

Arlette, I want to start with you, because you were in Wilmington yesterday for the announcement. You covered the Biden campaign. There are 25 hours in exactly, to this point.

How did the Biden people think it has gone so far? The video made a splash. They perhaps got the coverage they wanted on that. But the Anita Hill issue sprouted up.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I mean, you're exactly right. They got the coverage of that video showing that the former vice president wants to make this all a focus about him and Donald Trump. Already looking ahead to that general election match-up.

But you saw those comments. You talked about those comments relating to Anita Hill. And that's certainly not something that they wanted to be addressing on the first day of the campaign.

Joe Biden has faced plenty of questions over the past, really, two years since the #MeToo movement really started to bubble up about his handling of those hearings. And there's questions about why he didn't address this sooner, why he didn't have this conversation with Anita Hill sooner. These are questions that he's going to continue to face. He's going to be on "The View" later this morning.

Potentially, they'll press him a little bit more on that, because there does seem to be some differences. The campaign is saying that he expressed regret for what she endured. And Anita Hill is basically saying that type of apology is not enough.

CAMEROTA: David Gregory, we just had former governor of Pennsylvania, Ed Rendell, on. I asked him about this very thing. He said he didn't know anything about this phone call that we're talking about or Anita Hill's feelings. But he felt that female voters, it wouldn't matter, he felt, that this would not be an issue for female voters.

And part of why he thought that is he cited the enthusiasm last night of a fundraiser from women. And I guess that the point is unknowable, right? I mean, unknowable at this point about how women will respond to Joe Biden. He's been in for 24 hours. And who knows what their top priorities are at this moment?

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. Well, you know, Governor Rendell doesn't know how all women in the Democratic Party are going to feel about Joe Biden. And it would be insulting to suggest his uniformed view. Right?

You know, my mother out in California is not going to judge him harshly for this. She's almost his age. She's going to view the totality of Joe Biden and contextualize this differently. That perhaps a 25-year-old voter is going to look at these issues with fresh eyes. You know, without having been there and seen it in real time.

So I think there's going to be a mix of views. And I think the challenge for Biden right now is that he seems to me to be caught in a place where he'd like to be accountable for the behavior, running the Anita Hill, Clarence Thomas hearing. He'd like to be accountable for, you know, that sense of violating some women's personal space, being the kind of politician he's been for 40 years.

So I think Arlette is right. I think that we're going to get a sense on his "View" appearance, how prepared he is to deal with this. The danger for Biden is that he'll be ham-handed about all of this.

Annette, it will be a kind of a rolling series of ways to respond to all of this that will be clumsy. But in the end, I don't know how much we're going to know about this. I think there's a real potential. We know there's going to be a generational and a kind of progressive/moderate split within this -- this pack of candidates who are running on the Democratic side.

[07:05:11] BERMAN: Wait. He's had 28 years since the Anita Hill hearings to think about it.

CAMEROTA: The time has changed since then.

BERMAN: And I appreciate your point there. He's had two years, perhaps, during the #MeToo movement to think about the reframing.

CAMEROTA: And that's the real critical period, because I don't think that it is fair to put a 2019 lens over 1991. But these past two years have been a cataclysm that I hope people haven't missed.

BERMAN: So even within the Alisyn Camerota window --

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BERMAN: -- he's had more than a few days to think about this, Michael Smerconish, which I'm getting to here.

And his apology in public, he made that speech a few years ago where he said, "I'm sorry I couldn't give Anita Hill a different hearing before the Senate," which is just so different than saying, "I'm sorry I didn't."

And it sounds like when you listen to her reporting from the phone call that took place, that she didn't get the apology that she wanted, that it's not clear yet what Joe Biden is apologizing for. And I suppose he does have a different opportunity in just a few hours on "The View" to say it differently.

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, HOST, "SMERCONISH": I give credit to Joe Biden for having made the telephone call. I think that it was a positive step for him, after all these years, to have reached out to her and want to achieve some level of reconciliation.

I agree that it's a net loser for him to be relitigating, in the age of #MeToo, the events of three decades ago. It shouldn't go unsaid that there is a defense for the way in which both he and Senator Arlen Specter conducted those hearings, which was as a search for truth, given that there were inconsistencies in her account.

I found myself reading Specter's memoir last night to reacquaint myself with the facts of what transpired.

But let's not overlook the positive for Joe Biden today, which is this. There's all this Pennsylvania focus, because Joe Biden is regarded, as Governor Rendell said, as sort of a third senator from Pennsylvania. I don't know how Donald Trump can win re-election without Pennsylvania, without Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin.

And I don't know how Donald Trump could defeat Joe Biden, given the situation today in the Keystone State. That's why all the emphasis here last night and when he comes back on Monday and when he'll come back again on the 18th of the month.

CAMEROTA: I don't want to dwell too much on the Anita Hill thing. But I do want to represent her point of view, Michael, which is that I know you said it was a search for the truth. OK. But she says he didn't call any corroborating witnesses, that there were other women that had had this experience. That she was the person who was basically, you know, lambasted for her view and that the other women could have reported it. So that's her -- that is her complaint today.

SMERCONISH: It is her complaint today. I guess now I have to respond on behalf of Senator Specter, who's not here to defend himself, which is to say there was testimony she offered to him and an account that she provided to the FBI, as well as the Senate Judiciary Committee, before she testified that was at odds with what she then said in the hearing. And he felt the obligation to push her on that. And Senator Biden, similarly, asked those type of follow-up questions.

GREGORY: Can I just say I think what's interesting, even the focus on this today. And look, the Biden campaign was the one that divulged that he had made this call on his announcement day. So they're the ones who made this decision to bring on this kind of coverage.

On a debate stage with 20 Democrats, is there going to be this debate about the handling of Anita Hill? How would that play for Joe Biden? Joe Biden has got one message, which is I almost feel like I'm looking like Joe Biden. My finger like this.

BERMAN: Literally. Literally looking like Joe Biden.

GREGORY: Literally, I've got one message, folks. That Joe Biden's argument is that he can deliver the country from Donald Trump, period. That's why you vote for him. And maybe you even put future goals for the Democratic Party and the country on hold if that's the priority. That's his argument.

BERMAN: It is interesting. First of all, I don't want this to go without notice that Michael Smerconish may be the one man in America who has an Arlen Specter biography --

CAMEROTA: Talmudic knowledge --

BERMAN: -- near by his bedside.

CAMEROTA: -- of Arlen Specter's decision making. Thank you.

GREGORY: Chris Matthews probably has one, too.

BERMAN: Yes, so Captain Pennsylvania right there, Michael Smerconish. Thank you for that.

Arlette, I want to talk about where the Biden campaign thinks it's going and how it intends to deliver the message it wants to deliver. It's going on "The View." Biden is going on "The View" --

SAENZ: That's right.

BERMAN: -- in just a few hours. An interesting audience. Female hosts. Overwhelmingly, the audience will be filled with women. Why this show? What message? I think there are many facets to it.

SAENZ: Right. And there have -- a lot of the presidential candidates, in their early days, have gone on "The View." But it is a forum. You have, I think, four or five women who will be there questioning Joe Biden.

You have to remember, Meghan McCain and Joe Biden have a very personal relationship. There was -- one of the most emotional moments on "The View" was just a few years ago, where he went and he was sitting there consoling her, telling her that she was going to get through what her father was battling.

Joe Biden was a very close friend of Senator McCain's. He delivered a eulogy at his funeral. And also, Joe -- Senator John McCain and Joe Biden's son, Beau Biden, suffered from the exact same type of cancer. So that personal connection is really going to be on display today on "The View."

And also, you know, thinking about Joe Biden and Senator McCain, Joe Biden often talks about McCain, about how he is a character of a different time; and talks about him in terms of decency. And I think those are things that you'll probably hear him stress today. But I assume that the hosts of "The View" are going to be asking him questions about the Anita Hill and how he thinks he handled it.

CAMEROTA: Yes, but it will be a friendly environment.

SAENZ: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Let's just be honest. This is not going to be any sort of intense or gotcha. I mean, I'm predicting that they ask good questions. Don't get me wrong. But they are fans, I think, in general.

Here's the moment that you're talking about where -- that was emotional between Joe Biden and Meghan McCain.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And one of the things that gave Beau courage, my word, was John. Your dad -- you may remember when you were a little kid, your dad took care of my Beau. Your dad when he was a Mil A (ph), worked with me, became friends with Beau. And Beau talked about your dad's courage, not about illness, but about his courage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: And you know, looking at the clip, that's what Biden and his supporters point to, that personal connection. His ability to emote with people. They see that as one of his strongest assets going forward.

So, though he's going to have to defend a very long record, I think Biden and his team are hoping that people will remember those moments and realize that he -- or, you know, argue that he is a real person who can connect with you. And that's what I think that they're hoping voters will bank on going into the primaries.

BERMAN: You know what else is interesting and I think isn't getting enough focus here is how Biden will lean into the middle, because there are independents who will vote in the primaries. There is no real Republican contest, which might mean that you get more independent, especially in a state like New Hampshire. That can be a huge deal.

So you appeal to McCain voters, because they could actually show up.

And I do think you're also seeing his opponents start to worry about this. There's a reason Elizabeth Warren made critical comments about Joe Biden yesterday. There's a reason that the Sanders team, the Bernie Sanders team sent out a fundraising email off of Biden's entry into the race, David.

GREGORY: Yes, and it's easy to distinguish Biden from the rest of the group that is struggling to find different lanes. Among them right now, there's a stature gap; there's an experience gap. He's been very close to the Oval Office, a vice president. He's run for vice president before. With that comes the baggage; with that comes past failure. With that comes the debate over the '90s and the early 2000s.

I think it's amazing that you and I can remember the big question in previous cycles was "Where were you on the Iraq War?" We don't see that bubbling up yet, but he was for the Iraq War, which seemed to be a death knell for -- for progressives at a certain time.

So he will be able to distinguish himself. I agree with you about the point about independents in a primary state like New Hampshire. And Biden operates -- is operating within his own lane right now in this Democratic field.

And again, I put on top of that, who can win, who can beat Trump? And to Smerconish's point, who can win in a state like Pennsylvania?

Again, we talk about where was his first day, big fundraiser with David Cohen, who's a big fundraiser in the Democratic Party, showing that he's got to chops to be able to raise that money and to be able to do it in a state like Pennsylvania.

CAMEROTA: And Michael, ten seconds is all we have left. But you think that he is, at this point, the biggest threat to President Trump?

SMERCONISH: I think there's a -- there's a tension between emotion and practicality. There will be more emotion for Bernie or Elizabeth Warren, but the practicality says this is the guy with the best shot to win.

CAMEROTA: All right, everyone. Thank you so much for all of the reporting and the perspective. Be sure to watch "SMERCONISH" tomorrow at 9 a.m. Eastern right here on CNN. His guest will be White House counselor Kellyanne Conway.

BERMAN: All right.

So is Joe Biden the best candidate to beat Donald Trump? We're going to ask the former head of the Democratic National Committee, the former governor of Virginia who spoke to Biden before the big decision. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:18:15] BERMAN: Joe Biden's Democratic rivals are already pouncing on his record, within hours of Biden jumping into the race. President Trump is also taking aim at the former vice president and his intelligence.

Joining me now is former governor of Virginia, Terry McAuliffe. He's also the former chair of the Democratic National Committee, a longtime friend of Joe Biden and until about two weeks ago a potential presidential candidate.

TERRY MCAULIFFE, FORMER GOVERNOR OF VIRGINIA: We were close, John.

BERMAN: But you didn't do it.

MCAULIFFE: Yes.

BERMAN: You spoke to Joe Biden a few weeks ago, and you both talked about your potential candidacy. So my first question to you is how much of a factor was Biden's entry into the race? How did that factor into your decision not to run?

MCAULIFFE: Well, listen, I went over -- I spent about three hours with Joe, talked about a lot of issues; talked about Charlottesville at length when I was with him. And it was a factor, but not a defining factor.

The big issue for me, John, at the end of the day, Virginia has got historic elections this year. We have our House and Senate up. Many people from Virginia came to see me and said, "Terry, we'd love you to run for president, but we need you at home."

So I'm going to stay home in Virginia, work for the first time in 26 years, win the House and Senate. Encouraging all the presidential candidates to come in.

You know, John, you've got to get out of bed every day. Where can you make the biggest impact on people's lives? And I determined, for me, that was Virginia. It's a state I love. It's where Dorothy and I raised our five children. They need me, and I'm ready to go fight for them.

BERMAN: I heard you say that, but you do say the Biden entry was a factor, yes?

MCAULIFFE: Sure. Yes, I mean, Joe and I would be in a similar space. I'm a huge fan. I've known Joe Biden forever. I love that he kicked off his campaign talking about the issues of Charlottesville.

BERMAN: Why?

MCAULIFFE: I'll tell you why. Because this is -- this campaign is going to come down, to me, as a question of character, the character of Joe Biden versus Donald Trump.

I was the governor of Virginia when Charlottesville happened. I was there in Charlottesville when a thousand neo-Nazis, white supremacists and alt-right, screaming the most vile things you could imagine against members of the African-American community, members of the Jewish faith.

[07:20:20] I talked to the president that day, President Trump, told him what was happening in the streets of Charlottesville. He said he was was going to do a press conference. I said, "You go first. I'll wait for you."

He came out and said there were good people on both sides. John, there were not. These were neo-Nazis, alt-right, screaming obscenities.

So what I love about what Joe Biden has done -- he didn't talk about his record -- this is about who we are as Americans. And Charlottesville was a defining moment. Donald Trump failed that test as president as the moral leader of our country. But also, on the other side with Charlottesville, racism exists in this country.

BERMAN: I get it.

MCAULIFFE: And people didn't think racism exists. It ripped that scab off.

We've got to do things about income inequality, about inferior schools in many African-American communities. So the next step for Joe Biden, and for all the candidates running for president: Tell me what you're going to do, how we're going to make all schools equal.

Every child in America deserves to have a quality education. Every child deserves to have a nutritious breakfast. Same quality teachers. And that's what this debate's about. And I think Joe launching the campaign with Charlottesville is going to bring all those issues. And that's what the debate is about.

BERMAN: But -- but -- but -0

MCAULIFFE: Yes, sir.

BERMAN: You say that's what the debate is about. And clearly, that's how Vice President Biden wants to frame the debate. But how much of the discussion, particularly a Democratic primary, will be about Joe Biden's record?

Do you know that he chose not to talk about that record? He was elected to the Senate the year I was born, in 1972. There's a long record.

MCAULIFFE: Yes. Don't dig it into me, John. I'm sorry. But yes, sure, I mean, he's had a long legislative record. And a lot of great accomplishments. Affordable Care Act, worked with President Obama. The Violence Against Women Act, which he was actually the author of. Assault weapon ban, the issues on climate change.

But when you're in this, everything is fair game.

BERMAN: OK.

MCAULIFFE: And you've got to look at the entire record, and folks are going to make a decision. But who's going to lean in on infrastructure? Who's going to lean in on lowering drug costs?

BERMAN: I hear you, but he didn't -- he chose not to talk about either of those things. And I understand there's time. There's time. But that's not what he chose. He chose something else.

You brought up the record. One of the things that's also up in discussion, it did come up yesterday on the day of his campaign launch, was the phone call with Anita Hill.

Now, we don't know the exact language that was used. But it does sound like Joe Biden said to Anita Hill something like what he said out loud a few weeks ago when he expressed regret. Let me play it for you so you can hear the language.

MCAULIFFE: Sure, sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: When Anita Hill came to testify, she faced a committee that didn't fully understand what the hell it was all about. To this day, I regret I couldn't come up with a way to give her the kind of hearing she deserved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So Anita Hill said that apology isn't enough: "I regret that I couldn't give her the kind of hearing she deserved." She says that's not accountability. That's not saying, "I regret that I didn't do it."

So does Senator -- then Senator Biden, now Vice President Biden need to do more here?

MCAULIFFE: Listen, according to reports, he called her yesterday. Listen, you've got to look at Joe, the entirety of his record. That was a mistake back then. He's admitted that. But you know, you've got to look at people through their own -- we all make mistakes, John, at some point in our lives. You learn by them. I think Joe Biden has made a lot of mistakes. He'll be the first to do it. I've made many mistakes. I've learned by it. I'm sure you have, too, John.

It's all about where, you know, the issues and the mistakes that you may have made, how you've learned from. And no one has dug in more on fighting on women's issues than Joe Biden has.

But you know, you've got to look at the totality of someone's record. As I say, he was the author of the Violence Against Women Act. But we've got to look at the whole record.

Also, we've got to look at what Joe Biden could do on the world stage. I'm disgusted about the way America is now viewed on the world stage, or what the president, Trump, has done in our relationships in NATO, what's happened in Asia, what he has done with the tariffs.

Farmers in Virginia, soybean farmers in Virginia are no longer selling their soybeans to China because of these ridiculous tariffs.

BERMAN: I do want to ask you, you're saying lots of nice stuff about Joe Biden, but just to be crystal-clear, you haven't endorsed him yet. Correct?

MCAULIFFE: Yes. I'm a big fan of Joe Biden. I view my role. Listen, endorsements will come in time. I view my role, and this is what I did leading up to thinking about running for president. I want all the candidates, I want to push the candidates is to have a real discussion. I don't want to hear about all these litmus tests, all of these labels: are you for this? Are you for that? It's like a "Game of Thrones." And if you're not for it, they all try to kill each other. Tell me what you are going to do for me today. That's what voters

want. How are you going to lower drug costs? How do we deal with --

BERMAN: But don't the positions matter there? I mean, if you are for Medicare for all, that matters. Doesn't it?

MCAULIFFE: What does it mean? That's my point.

Now when you ask most voters, Medicare for all means you will lose your private insurance; they're not for it.

But when you do that -- and coverage is important, John. It's a very good point that you raise. It is a moral issue. Under President Obama and Vice President Biden, we got 20 million more Americans covered.

[07:25:10] So most Americans are now covered. Coverage is important. But that's not the issue for most Americans. It's when they go to the drugstore and the costs they have to pay for drugs. When they go to a hospital and they're in network and all of a sudden, an anesthesiologist shows up who's out of network, and you get a bill, $2,000 a week after you get out of the hospital.

That is the issue that I want Democrats talking about. Helping people every day with money in their pocket. And that's the focus that we have to deal with.

We need infrastructure in this country. Something I worked with Joe Biden on when I was governor. I took over a port that was in financial distress. We rebuilt it, made it one of the best in the country. The White House and Joe Biden were there. They came down to that port. They helped me.

That's what -- that's what I want. What are you going to do? How are you going to govern? How are you going to help?

BERMAN: You said a lot of nice stuff about him, but not endorsing, at least not yet, which is interesting. Take that for what it is.

Governor Terry McAuliffe, always a pleasure to have you with us. Come visit us in New York.

MCAULIFFE: Thank you. Great, great.

BERMAN: Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right. Did President Trump blow his chance to claim executive privilege with a tweet? We'll look at that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: All right.

[07:30:00]