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CNN NEWSROOM

Social Media's Role In Fostering Attacks In Places Of Worship; Different Strategies: How Each Democrat Plans To Take On Trump; Video Shows Crane Collapse In Seattle That Killed Four; "Brady Bunch" Episode Fuels Campaign Against Vaccines During Measles Epidemic. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired April 29, 2019 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:30:00] CHARLIE WARZEL, DIGITAL WRITER-AT-LARGE, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Not a lot is being done at all. In fact, 8chan, in the past, has sort of deflected blame, especially for the Poway shooting, in fact, turning on the, quote, unquote, "fake news media," which is just a really disheartening thing for a platform that is hosted and helped foment quite a lot of violence in recent days.

What can be done? There needs to be some scrutiny from law enforcement and a better understanding of how these communities work. There was a user on the Internet who stumbled upon the shooter's post shortly before the shooting even took place, before it was reported, and tried to contact the FBI on Saturday.

They managed to contact the FBI, but nothing was able to be done because the lag time wasn't there. I think there needs to be real- time ways for tipsters and others to interact with law enforcement and police these boards, because clearly there're resulting in real violence.

BALDWIN: Agree. And making sure law enforcement understands these platforms and, to your point, policing them in real time.

Charlie Warzel, thank you for your voice and your opinion.

WARZEL: Thanks.

BALDWIN: I appreciate it.

A short time from now, Joe Biden will hold his first campaign rally and he's taking on the president directly. Some of his Democratic competitors not so much. Chris Cillizza joins me next to break it all down.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:35:39] BALDWIN: Job number-one for whoever will become the Democratic nominee, beat Donald Trump. How to do that? That's the dilemma facing the largest Democratic panel in history. Especially given this, no specific contender gets the biggest vote from Dems and Dem-leaning Independents if the primary were held today.

Some White House hopefuls, Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren, are taking on Trump directly. Warren calling for impeachment proceedings. And the former vice president this morning tweeting he's sick of the president, quote, "badmouthing unions." But will confronting Trump head on resonate with voters? Some candidates are betting it will, it won't, and they're taking very different tactics.

Let's go to Chris Cillizza, our CNN politics reporter and editor-at- large.

Let's run through a couple examples. Number one, who is standing out on taking on Trump one on one?

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER AND EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Remember, Brooke, we saw this before in the Republican primaries. People decided, do you try to out-Trump Trump, you ignore him, Jeb Bush ignored him, Marco Rubio ignored him, then attack him, nothing worked. Keep that in mind. It's harder than you might think.

OK, these are people taking Trump head on. Trying to make this -- the race is not really about me versus the 19 Democrats but me versus Trump. Biden, by far, the clearest example. He hasn't been in the race long. Joe Biden is talking exclusively about Donald Trump. Expect later today, in Pittsburgh, more of the same. Talking about Donald Trump, why he can't be president anymore, why Joe Biden is best.

Bernie Sanders will be in two categories. He's tried a few different things. One of which is to say, look, Donald Trump is the worst president in history and has done terrible things. We need an alternative. I'm the alternative.

Warren, in her way, has done the same thing. It's essentially to say she was, remember, coming out after the Mueller report and saying we need to impeach Donald Trump, leading the way there among 2020 candidates. Sanders and Biden not going that far.

But let's go. There's other categories here. Let's go to the next one.

BALDWIN: Next one being the optimism?

CILLIZZA: The optimism.

BALDWIN: Yes.

CILLIZZA: Right. Optimism. It's essentially don't even really talk about Donald Trump. Talk about America and what makes America great. OK. Best example, Cory Booker. Cory Booker, New Jersey Senator, is talking almost exclusively, we need to love each other more. That's not a direct quote, but a close paraphrase. It's different than other people.

Pete Buttigieg, he's selling his personal story, which is America's an amazing place. I've gone from no one to a contender in this race. I'm a different kind of person than Donald Trump. I believe in America. Beto O'Rourke struggles a little bit at this moment largely because

Buttigieg is taking his momentum. O'Rourke's message is what it was in Texas. He didn't make the raise about Ted Cruz in 2018. It was, we need fresher facing.

Last one, I mentioned Bernie will be in here twice. This is policy. People saying, don't focus on Donald Trump's personality. Focus on his policy. Sanders might be leading the way in this.

Let's play sound from Sanders. I believe this is from our town halls last week. Sanders talking about Trump's personality versus Trump's policy. Let's play that.

BALDWIN: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), VERMONT: If the next year, year and a half, going into the heart of the election, all the Congress is talking about is impeaching Trump and Trump, Trump, Trump, and Mueller, Mueller, Mueller, and we're not talking about health care, we're not talking about raising the minimum wage to a living wage, we're not talking about combating climate change, we're not talking about sexism and racism and homophobia and all of the issues that concern ordinary Americans, what I worry about is that works to Trump's advantage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CILLIZZA: So that is his answer on impeachment, why he's not pushing for impeachment. You have to argue against Trump on policy, not personality grounds. Warren is the best example. If there's a policy candidate in the field, it's Elizabeth Warren. You have an issue, education, immigration, taxes, she's rolled out policy prescriptions.

Klobuchar, from Minnesota, and Kamala Harris have done so. Kamala Harris a few less issues but has been clear on those. During our town hall, she talked about gun control and what she wants to do within the first 100 days. Klobuchar hasn't got the attention of folks because she's in a tier below, but is rolling out pragmatic policy solutions and not saying, look, I'm not going to attack Donald Trump every day. I'm going to say his vision of America doesn't fit our vision for America in the Midwest in particular.

So a bunch of different approaches. The truth of the matter, Brooke, is they're not -- these three screens we showed -- they're not mutually exclusive. You can do policy and you can confront. I think everyone is trying to figure it out because Donald Trump is an asymmetrical target.

BALDWIN: Right.

CILLILZZA: It is not traditional political warfare. Hillary Clinton and the 15 Republicans he beat in 2016 learned that lesson.

[14:40:21] BALDWIN: This is the time when they're figuring out what works, what Americans want, want to hear, and what they're hoping will take down the president.

Chris Cillizza, thank you --

CILLIZZA: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: -- very much.

The number of measles cases in America hitting a new high. But the conversation today turning to the anti-vaxxers who are referencing a "Brady Bunch" episode.

Plus, the horrifying moment a crane collapsed killing four people. How safe are cities? Let's talk about this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:45:14] BALDWIN: We now have video of the deadly crane collapse in Seattle. A commuter caught the dramatic moment the giant crane just collapses, falls from a roof of a building in Seattle onto cars below. Four people died as authorities continue to investigate the cause.

CNN's Scott McLean has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From a distance, it was clear that something was very wrong. Clear to everyone except those in the line of danger. On Saturday, in a matter of seconds, a towering construction crane comes crashing down onto one of the busiest streets in Seattle, killing four people, including a college freshman. The crane was part of the construction of a building on Google's new Seattle campus.

Cranes are a common site on American skylines, like Denver, which is in the midst of a civic growth spurt.

Greg Hautamaki runs the Colorado Crane Operator School says cranes are only as safe as the humans who work with them.

GREG HAUTAMAKI, DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS, COLORADO CRANE OPERATOR SCHOOL: Some assembling the crane to operating the crane to disassembling the crane.

MCLEAN: While crane collapses are uncommon, they're not unheard of. In 2016, a crane came down in lower Manhattan, crushing several parked cars and killing one person inside. The investigation found the operator failed to properly secure the rig. In 2017, three cranes designed to withstand 95-mile-per-hour winds in south Florida were outmatched by the force of Hurricane Irma, causing them to partially collapse.

Just last year, a 10-story crane in St. Petersburg, Florida, crashed down narrowly missing workers. Nobody was hurt. According to local reports, the company blamed human error. Federal data shows that, from 2011 to 2015, an average of 44 people per year were killed in accidents involving cranes.

Hautamaki says the industry is closely regulated. Crane operators need to be trained and formerly certified but not those who assemble and disassemble them. The crane in Seattle was in the process of being dismantled when it collapsed and broke apart.

HAUTAMAKI: I think it would be a benefit the industry by having an assembly/disassembly certification. In the end game, it would be up to the employer to train them on the specific make and model of the crane.

MCLEAN: In statements, both Google and the construction contractor offered condolences but no explanations.

Meanwhile, Washington State announced that four companies associated with the collapse are now under investigation.

Scott McLean, CNN, Denver.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Scott, thank you.

Now to "The Brady Bunch." Remember every single episode? Strangely, so do a lot of people who oppose vaccinations. While the U.S. grapples with the worst measles outbreak since the disease was eradicated some 20 years, we have startling numbers, 704 measles cased reported so far this year with 71 percent of those coming down with the disease unvaccinated.

Enter "The Brady Bunch." Anti-vaxxers using an episode from the 1969 series to show what they see as a harmless illness. Here's a snippet.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARRY WILLIAMS, ACTOR: Boy, this is the life, isn't it?

MAUREEN MCCORMICK, ACTRESS: Yes. If you have to get sick, sure can't beat the measles.

EVE PLUMB, ACTRESS: That's right. No medicine.

CHRISTOPHER KNIGHT, ACTOR: Inside or out, like shots, I mean?

PLUMB: Don't even mention shots. Yuck.

FLORENCE HENDERSON, ACTRESS: Measles, measles, measles. Well, all the kids have now had the measles.

ROBERT REED, ACTOR: So have I.

HENDERSON: Mine was years ago. Looks like the Bradys are finished with the measles.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Maureen McCormick, by the way, who played Marcia, says this, quote, I think it's really wrong when people use people's images today to promote whatever they want to promote, and the person's image they're using, they haven't asked or they have no idea where they stand on the issue. As a mother, my daughter was vaccinated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So let's talk about this with family physician, Dr. Jennifer Caudle.

And, Dr. Caudle, nice to have you on.

My goodness, "The Brady Bunch" in all of this? No question. Right? This particular episode made light of the Brady kids getting the measles and anti-vaxxers are using it to play down the seriousness of measles. What's your message to them?

DR. JENNIFER CAUDLE, FAMILY PHYSICIAN: Well, so my message is -- I have a lot of messages, Brooke, but let me tell you, let me start with a reaction to this.

BALDWIN: OK. OK.

CAUDLE: I have to emote and respond to this. I tell you, I read about this episode. I saw it myself, and not only am I shocked and disappointed but I'm embarrassed.

BALDWIN: Why?

CAUDLE: I'm embarrassed that's the way that we were portraying measles at that time. And it's been resurfacing, but it's incorrect. It's not appropriate. And it's incorrect. It's painted as though it's little rash and a fever. I think Carol Brady said something like a high temperature, some dots and a big smile the kids had.

Look, that's not the way it is for a lot of kids. We know that one or two out of every thousand kids who get the measles will die from complications. Pneumonia and swelling of the brain are also potential complications. I'm shocked, but I'm embarrassed and disappointed.

[14:50:18] BALDWIN: So there's this meme going around showing "The Brady Bunch" asking, remember this episode when it was no big deal to have the measles? And I hear you on how you're shocked and this is embarrassing that we portrayed them this way years ago. But today, given the seriousness of measles, what would you say to those especially the anti-vaxxers out there?

CAUDLE: Yes. So for anyone who thinks that measles is not that big of a deal, you're sadly and sorely misguided. That's not the case. We know that, before the time we had a vaccine, half a million people, we think probably in the millions, got measles and 500 were hospitalized every year. Now we're up to 704 cases, Brooke, as you mentioned, in the opening. But 9 percent of those have been hospitalized.

And as I mentioned it before, we're not talking about just a little rash and a high fever. We're talking about people who can become deathly ill. And don't forget this vaccine. This is where a lot of this comes to. Maybe people say, I don't want my kids to have the measles. But more so, people are concerned about the vaccines.

The measles, mumps and rubella vaccines has been associated with autism. That's false. They do not cause autism. And vaccines are safe and effective. I know I sound like I'm on a soap box, Brooke, but I have to say it over and over and over again.

This is a vaccine-preventable illness. People can die from this condition. The most important and best thing we can do is to get vaccinated. We have to.

BALDWIN: I appreciate you saying that.

Again, taking you back to "The Brady Bunch," which was a TV show, and the real-life Marcia, who was Maureen McCormick saying, as a mother, I got my daughter vaccinated.

Dr. Caudle, a pleasure. Thank you so much.

CAUDLE. Thank you. Thank you.

BALDWIN: Just in, just days before Attorney General Bill Barr is set to testify before the House Judiciary Committee on the Mueller report, we're told the DOJ and the committee's Democrats are meeting over whether he'll do that. The Justice Department pushing back on Democrats for wanting congressional lawyers to also question Barr. Updates as we get them.

Ahead here, the NRA, the National Rifle Association, is in turmoil as the group's internal drama prompts an investigation.

Plus, the man who signed a $2 million pledge to North Korea says the president of the United States authorized that, but did the U.S. intend to honor it?

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:57:23] BALDWIN: One person is dead and seven others wounded after gunfire shattered a neighborhood cookout in Baltimore. But despite the violence, one Baltimore city police officer is finding a new way to combat crime in his community.

CNN's Victor Blackwell shows us how he's going "Beyond the Call of Duty."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Destruction and violence in Baltimore. UNIDENTIFIED NEWS ANCHOR: The state said he planted evidence.

UNIDENTIFIED NEWS ANCHOR: Marches for justice.

BLACKWELL: In recent years, crime has dominated the news in Baltimore.

UNIDENTIFIED NEWS ANCHOR: Detectives put down more than 50 bullet markers.

BLACKWELL: Each of the last four years have ended with more than 300 victims of homicide and local rapper, Saint, knows the names of more than a few.

(RAPPING)

SAINT, RAPPER: I've seen a lot of people die. And I'm tired of it.

BLACKWELL: Saint is writing positive rap hoping to change minds and save lives.

(RAPPING).

BLACKWELL: Saint's lyrics are borne out of tragedies he's seen up close as has Officer Joshua Jackson with the Baltimore Police Department.

JOSHUA JACKSON, OFFICER, BALTIMORE POLICE DEPARTMENT: I want to be able to affect the youth so they know that you don't necessarily have to turn to a gun.

(RAPPING)

BLACKWELL: Rapping came first as a teenager. He joined the BPD in 2017.

JACKSON: After I became a police officer, I said, well, I can combine the two.

(RAPPING)

BLACKWELL: When the higher ups in the department heard his track about being an BPD officer, Baltimore's finest, they teamed up to make a music video.

(RAPPING)

MICHAEL HARRISON, COMMISSIONER, BALTIMORE POLICE DEPARTMENT: Many of the issues --

BLACKWELL: Michael Harrison is Baltimore's police commissioner.

HARRISON: It talks about us, but it's talking about people. You see officers, kids, communities, and the officer's telling his story in a very different way than police generally in our culture tell stories about the work we do. BLACKWELL: Officer Jackson knows that Baltimore's challenges will

require more than music to overcome. But he says it's helping to open dialogue and that's a start.

JACKSON: It means my message is reaching people. It's powerful.

(RAPPING)

BLACKWELL: Victor Blackwell, CNN, Baltimore.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We want to begin this hour with breaking news. CNN has learned of a terror plot involving multiple targets in southern California. This coming just 48 hours after that shooting at a synagogue in Poway near San Diego.

Let's go straight to CNN Law Enforcement Analyst and former FBI Agent, Josh Campbell.

Josh, what do you know?

[14:59:58] JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYS Agent T (via telephone): Yes, Brooke, as you mentioned, federal officials telling us that they have what they're calling an alleged terror plot involving what they're describing as several locations in the Los Angeles area. We expect to hear more from officials in about an hour.