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New Day
CNN Reality Check: Did Attorney General Barr Mislead Congress?; Sen. Kamala Harris (D-CA) Discusses Attorney General Barr's Testimony; Venezuela Braces For More Protests Today. Aired 7:30-8a ET
Aired May 02, 2019 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:31:58] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right. President Trump's handling of the economy is getting a big thumbs up in a new CNN national poll. We also have a look at how the leading Democrats stack up against the president.
So let's bring back CNN political director David Chalian who joins us with the new numbers. Tell us everything you've got, David.
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Good morning, Alisyn.
Yes, CNN has brand new poll numbers. What we did is we tested the top six Democrats against President Trump to get a baseline marker. This far out, what does this snapshot in time tell us about how the American people are sizing these Democrats up against President Trump?
Let's tick through them.
Joe Biden, he bests Trump by six points here, 51 percent to 45 percent.
Bernie Sanders in a similar position of strength here, 50 percent to 44 percent.
We should note, for all of these it's a 5 1/2 percent margin of error so these are close races.
Elizabeth Warren is the only one of the six Dems we've tested who actually numerically falls just short of the president, 47 to 48, but that's obviously a tight race.
Mayor Pete Buttigieg, 47 percent; President Trump, 44.
Beto O'Rourke -- this may be surprising for some folks. He does best against the president in these data, 52 percent to 42 percent, a 10- point gap there.
And, Kamala Harris also edges out President Trump. She does so by a smaller margin, 49 percent to 45 percent.
These are real early snapshots but as you know, as we saw in our poll a couple of days ago, electability is a key thing -- who can defeat Trump. That's an argument that's going to take place in the Democratic primary, so these numbers will be part of that.
Here, pardon the pun, is the trump card for the president. Fifty-six percent of Americans approve of how he's handling the economy. This is the highest number we've ever seen in CNN polling.
Look at this. That 56 percent, if you stack it up historically, it's the high water mark. In the entirety of the Trump presidency in CNN polling, we've not seen him have that big of an approval rating on the economy.
As you know, James Carville made famous, right, "It's the economy, stupid."
We know that sensibility about the economy heading into an election matters a ton and this is what the president's team is counting on, even though they're aware that they're going to be in a real fight for reelection.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And I've never seen the Trump team so unsettled during the stock market plunge in December and the shutdown in January. It was because they know the economy is the most important thing to them.
David Chalian, great to have you with us. Thanks so much.
CHALIAN: Thanks, guys.
BERMAN: Did Attorney General William Barr mislead Congress in his testimony?
CNN senior political analyst John Avlon has the reality check -- John.
JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Hey, guys.
So look, justice is supposed to be beyond partisan considerations. Its credibility comes from being objective and fair, rooted in facts.
But yesterday, the head of the Justice Department, Attorney General Bill Barr, again seemed to show that he considers himself part of the Trump legal defense team, first. Time after time, Barr showed an unwillingness to confront facts unfavorable to his boss and even unfamiliarity with the contents of the Mueller report, itself.
The day got off to a rocky start because we just found out that Mueller expressed concerns about Barr's conduct in late March. And a Justice Department spokeswoman said Mueller emphasized that nothing in the attorney general's letter was inaccurate or misleading.
[07:35:03] But, Mueller's own letter said that Barr, quote, "...did not fully capture the context, nature, and substance of this office's work and conclusions." That's definitely one way to say misleading.
Speaking of misleading, that's what Bill Barr seems to have been in April when he told Congress he didn't know whether Mueller supported his conclusions. Again, the letter would suggest otherwise. On the key question of obstruction, Barr said again that DOJ policy -- sitting president -- that a sitting president can't be indicted had no impact on Mueller's work. That's despite the text of the report, itself.
Barr also repeated a Republican talking point that the fact Mueller wasn't fired means there was no obstruction. It wasn't for lack of trying. We know that President Trump asked multiple people multiple times to
derail the Mueller investigation from this then-White House counsel Don McGahn to trying to get his former A.G. Jeff Sessions to unrecuse himself, to even asking a former campaign manager to reinforce that message.
The fact that the president's staff repeatedly ignored his orders is not exoneration as much as it's evidence they knew what he was asking was wrong.
Barr also showed a strange unfamiliarity with basic facts of the report, like whether polling information had been shared with the Russians, even admitting to Sen. Kamala Harris that he hadn't read through all the underlying evidence.
Heck, we even learned the Judiciary chair, Lindsey Graham, hasn't even finished reading the report two weeks after it was released.
Barr also conveniently forgot a lot, like how many ongoing investigations were referred by the special counsel. And the answer, by the way, is 14 with all but two redacted.
He also had convenient amnesia about whether he'd spoken to anyone in the White House about those cases.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM BARR, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I don't recall, no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AVLON: Now, "I don't recall" is often legalese for telling the truth would cause more problems than it solves. It's a move that President Trump made more than 30 times in written responses to the special counsel.
But, Barr had a much clearer memory when it came to questions about former FBI director James Comey.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Did you have a problem with the way Comey handled the Clinton e-mail investigation?
BARR: Yes. I said so at the time.
(END VIDEO CLIP) AVLON: Except it would appear that he didn't always. Now, don't take my word for it. Here's Bill Barr writing in "The Washington Post" before the election. Quote, "James Comey did the right thing."
Now, Lindsey Graham made clear that all of this is case-closed to him, ignoring the ongoing cases and House investigations. Meanwhile, Barr and Graham have made it clear that they're going to follow the president's demand to investigate the investigators.
It's another sign of the dangerous precedent being sent as democratic norms are undermined in front of our eyes.
And that's your reality check.
CAMEROTA: Thank you for pointing out those memory lapses, and that is one generous way to see what -- the questions and answers he struggled with.
AVLON: You know, I think it's important that we are -- we are charitable but unflinching in our assessment of the attorney general's questions yesterday.
CAMEROTA: John Avlon, thank you very much.
All right.
Senator Kamala Harris's questioning of the attorney general is drawing praise from fellow Democrats and criticism from President Trump. How did she feel about it? Senator Harris joins us live, next.
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[07:41:36] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My question is in reaching your conclusion, did you personally review all of the underlying evidence?
WILLIAM BARR, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: No. We took and accepted -- we accepted --
HARRIS: Did Mr. Rosenstein?
BARR: No. We accepted the statements in the report as the factual record. We did not go underneath it to see whether or not they were accurate. We accepted it as accurate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Twenty-twenty Democratic candidate Sen. Kamala Harris pressing Attorney General Barr about this 4-page summary of the Mueller report. Barr conceded that neither he nor his staff looked at Mueller's underlying evidence before drawing their conclusions.
Senator Kamala Harris joins us now to talk about that and more. Senator, it's great to have you here on NEW DAY.
HARRIS: Thank you. Thanks, Alisyn. Good to be with you.
CAMEROTA: OK, I want to ask you about that exchange --
HARRIS: Yes.
CAMEROTA: -- because to my layperson's ear it sounded as if he was saying that he accepted Robert Mueller's facts and didn't feel any need to reexamine the two years' worth of fact-finding that Robert Mueller had done. So why didn't that sit well with you?
HARRIS: Well, listen, as a former prosecutor and as the former attorney general of California -- which, by the way, I ran the Department of Justice, which is the second-largest Department of Justice in the country -- second only to the United States Department of Justice.
When we are talking about the Attorney General of the United States making a decision about whether the President of the United States obstructed justice, we should assume and we should expect that he will take his duties seriously and examine and be familiar with the evidence before he makes a decision and announces to the world his decision about whether or not, in this case, the President of the United States obstructed justice.
He failed to perform his duties and I find it highly irresponsible and, frankly, unprofessional.
CAMEROTA: You had another interesting exchange with Attorney General Barr, basically asking him if the White House had ever pressed him to investigate the investigators.
HARRIS: Right.
CAMEROTA: So let me play that for everyone. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Has the president or anyone at the White House ever asked or suggested that you open an investigation of anyone? Yes or no, please, sir.
BARR: The president or anybody else --
HARRIS: It seems you'd remember something like that and be able to tell us.
BARR: Yes, but I'm trying to grapple with the word "suggest." I mean, there have been discussions of matters out there that -- they have not asked me to open an investigation, but --
HARRIS: Perhaps they suggested?
BARR: I don't know. I wouldn't say suggest.
HARRIS: Hinted?
BARR: I don't know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Senator, what did you think of that response?
HARRIS: He didn't answer. He did not answer the question.
First of all, he wanted it to be repeated, which impressed me as he wanted time to really think about how he was going to answer the question. He obviously heard the question the first time. And then, parsing words about "suggested."
He did not answer the question, and I'm sure he didn't because he knew he was under oath and he knew that he could potentially expose himself to perjury if he did not answer honestly.
CAMEROTA: Do you wish you had pressed him further to answer the question?
HARRIS: He was clearly, Alisyn, not going to answer the question as he -- as he was throughout the hearing.
[07:45:03] And I'm the most junior on the committee. I was the last to ask questions during the first round and repeatedly, my colleagues asked questions that he did not answer. He parses his words.
And again, let's just be really clear about this. We are talking about the Attorney General of the United States who runs the United States Department of Justice. And this is a person who should conduct himself at the highest level of integrity.
This is someone who represents the people of our country and should conduct himself in a way that is about representing the interests of the people of our country and not the President of the United States.
But this is not how Attorney General Barr has conducted himself. He is clearly biased. He is clearly reluctant to share the truth with the United States Congress and clearly, unable to perform his duties as the Attorney General of the United States.
CAMEROTA: And so, I believe you have called on him to resign. He doesn't seem inclined to do that. Do you think that Congress should move towards impeaching him?
HARRIS: I think he should resign.
And I think that he has made it very clear that 1) he has -- he is not able to perform his duties, not only in terms of doing it with the interests of the people in mind and being unbiased and fair and honest.
Not only is that an issue but when you're talking about an investigation that took place over the course of two years by the special counsel on a subject that has been a subject of intense concern for all of the American public. And for him to, after two years of an investigation, render his opinion after two days. And then we find out he didn't even review the evidence.
I'd say that he also has performed basically in a way that suggests that he is not a professional in the way that he does his work and does not take his duties seriously. So I think he should resign.
CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, betting people don't think that he's going to resign. Do you think that Congress should move towards holding him in contempt or impeachment?
HARRIS: Let's see. I think that there is a lot more work to be done and I think he should resign.
CAMEROTA: Will Robert Mueller or Don McGahn come to answer questions before Congress this month?
HARRIS: I really hope so.
I mean, I have called and believed that Robert Mueller and/or members of his team absolutely should come before Congress. There is a lot of information that I think he possesses that needs to be shared with the American public. I have long said and believed that the underlying evidence that supports the report should be shared with the United States Congress, at the very least, but with the public.
And I think Bob Mueller would be probably the most credible witness to come before the United States Congress to share what actually happened and to share the significance of the evidence that he discovered during the course of his investigation.
CAMEROTA: I want to ask you about your campaign for the president.
In our latest poll -- I'll pull it up for everybody -- the candidate that voters say they want to learn more about, you are at the top. Twenty-three percent of respondents chose you that they want to hear more from.
Furthermore, you have another distinction of getting the highest ratings of any CNN candidate town hall.
What is it about you that you think voters find so intriguing?
HARRIS: Well, I think that I have been traveling the country. I've been spending a lot of time in Iowa and New Hampshire, and South Carolina, and Nevada -- a lot of the early states, in particular. And I think what I'm finding is that people want a leader who has the ability to speak the truth about what's not working in our country.
I think that people want someone who has a proven track record of leadership. I have held elected office and leadership roles in local government and state government, and now, in the federal government.
I think that people want a leader who has a proven track record of knowing how to fight and be successful. I took on the five big banks of the United States during the foreclosure crisis that robbed so many American families of their homes.
And I'm finding that there is a lot of interest and excitement, frankly, in the possibility of having the next President of the United States be someone who actually has a vision for the future of our country as opposed to just looking in the rearview mirror.
And so, that's the kind of feedback I get when we're on the road, so I'm assuming that's what it is.
CAMEROTA: Well, President Trump also has zeroed in on you a couple of times, particularly after yesterday, and he used another insulting word. Let me play this for you and everyone.
HARRIS: OK.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He performed incredibly well today. And for the --
TRISH REGAN, HOST, FOX BUSINESS NETWORK, "TRISH REGAN PRIMETIME": Well, you have the -- you know, Kamala Harris.
[07:50:00] TRUMP: Well, she was --
REGAN: I'd be --
TRUMP: -- probably very nasty.
You have three of them running against me and they're up there ranting and raving -- no, like lunatics, frankly.
REGAN: Yes.
TRUMP: And they're running and how is that fair?
So, you have Bill Barr, highly respected, great attorney general, and he's got to take the abuse from people that are running for office. They don't care about this. They're just looking for political points.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: OK, that was on Fox Business. That was the second time he's used the word "nasty" about you. What's that about?
HARRIS: God only knows.
Listen, let me be very clear about how I think about what is important and what is before us.
We have a President of the United States whose primary interest, I think that has been clear as a result of what we know from the Mueller report -- his primary interest has been to obstruct justice.
My primary interest is to pursue justice. And you can call that whatever name you want but I think that's what the American people want in a leader.
CAMEROTA: OK, we have a little fun kicker that we like to do with all of the presidential candidates that come on NEW DAY.
HARRIS: OK.
CAMEROTA: It's called "Candidate Mixtape." That was the musical sting for it. And we like to talk a lot about music here on this program.
So --
HARRIS: OK.
CAMEROTA: What is your favorite musical genre?
HARRIS: Oh, I mean, I'm hip-hop and reggae and jazz. Those are -- those are some of my favorites.
CAMEROTA: OK, do you have a favorite band or favorite musician?
HARRIS: I'd say one of my favorites is Bob Marley.
CAMEROTA: Good choice. You can't go wrong with that. That's a crowd pleaser.
HARRIS: No.
CAMEROTA: On your mixtape, what would be like your favorite three songs?
HARRIS: Oh, OK, let's see. Aretha Franklin -- anything Aretha Franklin. I would say Bob Marley and then -- I don't know. I love Cardi B.
CAMEROTA: OK -- as she says.
Those are great. Thank you for playing along.
Senator Harris, it's great to have you and get your perspective on all of this. We'll see you again soon.
HARRIS: Thank you. I appreciate it, Alisyn. Thank you. I'll see you later.
CAMEROTA: Thanks so much -- John.
BERMAN: All right. It could be a new day of violent protests in Venezuela as Nicolas Maduro holds on to power. We have a live report from Caracas, next.
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[07:56:34] BERMAN: New protests are expected today in Venezuela as the president there, Nicolas Maduro, hangs on to power. And the head of the Secret Police has defected to support the president of the National Assembly, Juan Guaido.
Our Nick Paton Walsh is live in Caracas with the very latest. Nick, you just arrived there. Give us the situation on the ground.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, a lot for President Nicolas Maduro to absorb today having lost that key lynchpin of his intelligence agency on Tuesday, seen this morning marching alongside his armed forces trying to show that they're surviving this and calling the weekend a time for reflection about how their sort of so-called Venezuela revolution will move forward and perhaps a suggestion he needs to make some kind of changes.
But, Juan Guaido has called people out on the streets again today for the third day in a row. He, himself, accepted yesterday that the bid he made on Tuesday morning early to get the military to entirely change hands simply didn't get enough people to sign on. And frankly, looking at the small window of central Caracas around me now, we're not looking a daily life massively changed.
He's also called for a substantial strike.
But it's the United States trying to keep wind in his wings, really. Here's Donald Trump, the U.S. president, speaking on Venezuela just last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Yesterday was rough and probably tomorrow is going to be very bad, and it's a terrible thing. We have -- all options are on the table. We'll see.
We want to help people. We're not interested in anything else other than helping people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALSH: Now, obviously, Venezuela is in a dire humanitarian crisis -- rolling blackouts, food shortages.
But the U.S.'s focus, I think, is trying to continually suggest the international community is behind the opposition leader and self- declared interim president Juan Guaido, saying that they have potentially -- Mike Pompeo thinks that military is possible.
The acting Sec. of Defense Patrick Shanahan canceling a trip to Europe to partially deal with the Venezuelan crisis. A lot of external pressure.
The question is does that change the calculus on the streets here and so far, that's been underwhelming in support of the opposition -- John.
BERMAN: Yes, Nick Paton Walsh in Caracas for us.
Administration officials here in the U.S. have threatened military action but what they haven't made clear is what would trigger it and that, of course, is a key question.
Nick, thank you so much for your reporting.
The fallout from Attorney General William Barr. He testified before the Senate.
This morning, the big question, though, is when we will hear from special counsel Robert Mueller? How did he feel about this Barr testimony?
NEW DAY continues right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Barr is declining to testify before the House Judiciary Committee.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He picked a fight because it's good for him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The attorney general is afraid to be accountable and it's terribly disappointing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bill Barr was not coming to the circus that was presented to us.
REP. DOUG COLLINS (R-GA): Chairman Nadler sabotaged his own hearing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Barr's rejection follows a defiant performance where we saw him getting grilled.
BARR: It was my decision when to make it public, not Mueller's.
TRUMP: They want to treat him differently than they have anybody else.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The performance was what you would expect a paid defense lawyer for the president to be doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.
BERMAN: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. It's Thursday, May second. It's 8:00 in the East.
And this morning, what is Robert Mueller thinking? How will the special counsel respond to direct criticism from the attorney general who called Mueller's concerns a bit snitty? And how will he react to the attorney general's claim that Mueller's report cleared President Trump of obstruction despite.
[08:00:00]
