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HALA GORANI TONIGHT
Democrats Threaten Legal Action Against U.S. Attorney General; Nadler Threatens to Hold Barr in Contempt of Congress; House Panel Faced Empty Chair; Justice Department Defies Subpoena to Release Redacted Mueller Report to Congress; Maduro Seeks to Display Military Loyalty; Guaido Urges Government Workers to Strike; Russia Continues to Support Maduro; U.K. Has History of Not Extraditing Hackers to America; Waiting for Storm on East Coast of India. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired May 2, 2019 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00] HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London, I'm Hala Gorani.
The U.S. Attorney General is accused of committing a crime when he testified before Congress. That as he failed to show up to testify today.
Also, this. A crystal-clear message from Nicholas Maduro. Venezuela's military is loyal, the uprising has failed. We are live in Caracas.
In India, thousands are being evacuated from their homes ahead of what's expected to be the strongest cyclone to hit the country in 50 years.
An empty chair said all this morning. Furious Democrats on Capitol Hill are threatening legal action against Attorney General William Barr, saying
he's attempting on multiple fronts to subvert the rule of law. Bar was supposed to testify in the House about the Mueller like he did yesterday in
the Senate, he did not show up because of objections over the format.
His Justice Department also ignored a subpoena to give Congress the full unredacted Mueller report, leaving Democrats to threaten to hold him in
contempt. Calls are growing for him to resign after his testimony yesterday. Listen to the most powerful House Democrat Nancy Pelosi.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): As the Attorney General of the United States was not telling the truth to the Congress of the United States. That's a
crime. He lied to Congress. He lied to Congress. And if anybody else did that, it would be considered a crime. Nobody is above the law, not the
President of the United States and not the Attorney General.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Let's get the latest from our Congressional correspondent, Phil Mattingly.
Pelosi is saying this is a crime. He lied to Congress. What will the next moves be for House Democrats who are trying to get Barr to testify and
trying to get that full unredacted Mueller report. What are they going to do?
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You kind of hit a key point there, you know this is coming on multiple fronts. What you heard from the Speaker is
as strong as you can get from a leader talking about a cabinet official who just testified under oath less than 24 hours ago, it also underscores the
frustration from Democrats, the frustration that Attorney General Barr did not attend the hearing today.
And the reaction that this White House, this administration has said no to every subpoena that they had issued regarding any investigation they've had
going on over the last couple months. Six House Democrats took the majority in January. The reality here in terms of next steps is a little
complicated, to some degree. You noted that several Democratic Presidential hopefuls have called for resignation.
We've heard that from House members as well. The Speaker said she wants to leave this to the Judiciary Committee. What they have is a few options,
they can hold the Attorney General in contempt for not showing up, for not complying with the subpoena related to the unredacted report, they can also
push forward for impeachment of the Attorney General.
That's something Nancy Pelosi said she's not willing to do yet at this point. Democrats are increasingly frustrated, increasingly looking for
reasons for the lies. The Speaker's comments were reckless and weren't in character for what the Attorney General said, but what you're seeing is a
very real fight, a very real battle between two entities and two institutions that don't look like they're going to get along any time soon.
What could happen to the Attorney General, what's actually the next step. Is he ever going to testify? I talked to people who are involved in the
committee, they look at it two ways, there are multiple subpoenas, multiple investigations, they did not want to give an inch to the Justice
Department. Even if that meant he wasn't going to come up, they were going to be nine with that, the bigger picture is, that Robert Muller himself the
Special Counsel will testify in the coming weeks. That more than anything else is what they're focused on.
[14:05:00] GORANI: Thanks very much. Live on Capitol Hill. Critics say Barr is acting more like President Trump's personal attorney than the
Attorney General of the United States. He raised eyebrows several times yesterday, including when he said a President could shut down an
investigation into his own conduct if he believes he's being falsely accused. Our legal analyst Elie Honig sums up Barr's testimony in one
word, pathetic. In a CNN online column today.
Elie, I was asking Phil, whatever options the Democrats have on Capitol Hill, we are talking here about a protracted battle between House of
Representatives and the Justice Department, what are the likely outcomes here?
ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So really Congress has three options and I think that Phil laid them out. They can issue a contempt of Congress
citation which is largely symbolic, it doesn't really mean anything. No one goes behind bars. No pun intended.
They can also make a criminal referral for contempt, the problem is that referral goes where? To the United States Department of Justice which Bill
Barr the Attorney General is in charge of. So as a practical matter I wouldn't count on that going anywhere.
Our they can start a lawsuit in our civil courts. And I think if this comes to a head, that's where it will be. What is the likelihood of it
succeeding? Congress has very broad oversight powers, it's one of the fundamental constitutional authorities that we vest in our Congress.
Ultimately, I think the courts are going to be quite deferential to that unless it is seen as an excessive or arbitrary or malicious use of that
power, when you're talking about 30 minutes worth of questioning by outside attorneys, I don't think the court is going to look at that and say, you're
abusing your power.
GORANI: Explain to our international viewers, who have been following the coverage of the Mueller report, before it came out the Barr summary, then
the redacted Mueller report, finally this Barr testimony. Why is this all significant?
HONIG: I think Democrats would tell you that Bill Barr -- and I agree with this, not because of ideology, but I think the criticism of Bill Barr is
that he engaged in a PR campaign to frame in a misleading way what the Mueller report found. It's important that people understand, There was
almost a month that passed between when Bill Barr issued his 4-page summary letter describing what Mueller had found and when the actual Mueller report
came out. In that one-month period, we had a letter from Barr.
Barr testified in Congress, and he gave a press conference an hour before it came out. When we saw the Mueller report itself. I think it became
quite apparent that Barr had spun things at every turn in Donald Trump's favor, and that complaint. That criticism got extra fuel yesterday when we
learned that Robert Mueller had made the same complaint to Bill Barr and we learned yesterday, that just three days after Bill Barr sent out his first
letter Mueller sent the letter saying, you misrepresented the context and substance of my findings.
GORANI: On April 20th, he was asked do you know if Mueller agrees with your characterization, his reply was, I don't know. And this was several
weeks after receiving that letter from Robert Muller saying, I believe you mischaracterized the findings of the report. Nancy Pelosi said, Barr lied
to Congress, that's a crime. Does she have a point?
HONIG: I agree in part. He lied to Congress under any common sense understanding of the word lie. Sure he did. Is it a crime? Did he leave
himself just enough wiggle room and anyone who saw the testimony yesterday, he tried to tap dance and say, well, by conclusions, what do we mean by
that. He tried to tap dance around a little.
Perjury charges are tough to make, if there's any wiggle room, they're awfully hard to charge, and as a practical matter, if there was to be a
perjury charge against the Attorney General, guess who would have to bring that? The United States Department of Justice. One of the U.S. attorneys
all of homework under Bill Barr. I would not expect there to be an indictment of Bill Barr. But was this statement a lie? Yes.
GORANI: The White House is complaining. We learned this in in the last hour, Mueller didn't make -- didn't come to a conclusion whether or not
there was obstruction. So they're complaint, they're saying why leave it to the Justice Department or Congress on whoever else. Do they have a
point here? Why did the report leave that question dangling?
HONIG: A lot of people have question. Why didn't Robert Mueller give a thumbs up or thumbs down decision on whether the President should be
prosecuted for obstruction?
But the big thing that's missing from the letter, there is a longstanding DOJ policy against indicting a sitting President. And Robert Mueller makes
clear throughout the report that that policy really handcuffs him, and essentially, what he says he does not want to do is announce that the
President has committed a crime --
GORANI: Why does it handcuff him in terms of coming to a conclusion, and then after the President leaves office? Then whatever -- of course,
whatever decision the prosecutors take, so be it, why just leave that dangling, it's open to interpretation to all sides?
[14:10:00] HONIG: It's a great question. I think I share -- when you read the report, Mueller twists himself into a pretzel trying to get around this
policy. The character Yoda from "Star Wars." He's speaking in these strange riddles. We're not saying he committed a crime, but we would tell
you if he didn't. And we're not saying he didn't. It's like, why not just say, we finally committed a crime, because he had this policy, can't be
And Mueller does say this part, he does say, there's no reason a President cannot be indicted after he gets out of office. So that's a legitimate
criticism of Mueller and has led to controversy.
GORANI: To Venezuela now, as been more than 48 hours since Juan Guaido the opposition leader and the President of the National Assembly announced the
attempt to oust Nicholas Maduro's government was entering quote, final phase. Kicking off two days of protests. Here's what Guaido did not want
Why did Guaido not want to see this? These are members of the Venezuela military send a clear message in an overt show of unity the embattled
President is claiming the patriotism of Venezuela's armed forces quote, will never break. And they must combat and I'm talking about Nicholas
Maduro saying they must combat what he was calling traitors.
NICHOLAS MADURO, PRESIDENT OF VENEZUELA (through translator): That is why I say we have to face and cut the betrayal, the coup. We need to step
forward. Be active. The order is given. The traitors, stop them. The coup plotters, reject them. And also stop them. The armed forces must be
GORANI: Let's take you live to the Venezuelan capitol. Paula Newton is there. Minutes ago you run streets of Caracas. Is pretty much back to
normal in many parts of the city, right? What's the situation out there?
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Normal, when you say a city still gripped by despair and utter hopelessness in terms of trying to get the basics of
every day life. That is true, they are back, worrying about where their next meal comes from.
Having said that though, look at these pictures.
Quite a comeback from President Maduro there, saying, I can give much better than I get from Guaido. We have not seen him yet today. There are
no protests. He has called for a general strike which he was hoping would start tomorrow. The issue is this, when you are confronted with those
kinds of pictures. And missed what would've been that even the United States administration claimed was Juan Guaido getting the backing from the
highest echelons of the military. That hasn't happened.
In more than that. You have Vladimir Padrino Lopez, the Defense Minister actually opening admitting in a speech that he was propositioned in some
way. But said that somehow the offer wasn't good enough, not sure what he meant by that, but it is with intrigue really that this country and
certainly other countries are involved, U.S. and Russia are looking on to a President Maduro that seems emboldened, there's no other way to put it.
Again, Juan Guaido not seen today and really still with Leopoldo Lopez, the opposition leader standing next to him during that failed uprising is holed
up in the Spanish Ambassador's residence seeking refuge.
GORANI: It is certainly not the scene that Guaido wanted to see. Thanks very much. Let's take a look at what's gone over in the last 48 hours.
Dan Restrepo is a former national security council director of Western Hemisphere affairs. And is now a senior fellow for the center for American
progress. A mouthful there. Thanks for joining us. He is in Washington. Basically, is this a misfire?
DAN RESTREPO, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL DIRECTOR OF WESTERN HEMISPHERE AFFAIRS: It's quite unclear what happened. You have the
Venezuelan opposition and the Trump administration saying there were negotiations at the highest levels of the Maduro regime, the head of the
military, the head of the Supreme Court, Presidential Guard, there's a big question as to whether those were good faith negotiations and those guys
weren't capable of pulling this off. Which would be decidedly bad news.
Or if there were bad faith negotiations and the opposition any Trump administration got played. Obviously, this week wasn't gone the way Guaido
hoped it would have gone. But we have a tendency to get too high when it looks like things are going to change and too low when they don't.
[14:15:00] GORANI: Before I ask you what happens to Guaido now, for a takeover to happen, or an overthrow or what the supporters would call
essentially a legitimate transfer of power, you need the support of a military in a country like Venezuela?
RESTREPO: Yes. The support of the military is the essential element. A lot of time we think of this wrong way. We think of this as Nicholas
Maduro that is the central piece of the regime. Military is the central piece of this regime. And whether the military wants to back Maduro or
Guaido. That's the fundamental question.
Until they decide that they want to back Guaido, that their interests are better aligned with Guaido than Nicholas Maduro. We're going to get the
status quo we've had over the last several months.
GORANI: As far as the Maduro regime is concerned, here's a man who tried to mount a coup and overthrow the President. They have to play it
carefully. If they jail him, he's seen as a martyr. What's going to happen next? We lost Dan.
But that's OK because I have with me John Defterios. We'll try to reconnect with him in a moment. John, what's important to underline, the
fact that it's not just the United States, it's countries like Russia and China that have interest in Venezuela? Specifically Russia has invested in
terms of the gas and energy sector in Venezuela. They're interested in keeping Maduro in place.
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN MONEY EMERGENT MARKETS EDITOR: Both Russia and China for that matter. It's been the better part of a decade they've been
involved. And to the tune of $70 billion, about $20 billion has come from Russia into Venezuela over the last five years. It owns nearly 50 percent
of Citgo which is a name known in the United States as petrol station owners. It is a big refiner as well.
Senior sources in Russia have told me in the past, the CEO of Rosneft that got the ear of Vladimir Putin and said, it's good to be in the sphere of
influence of the United States with the flag planted in Venezuela. They doubled down, they wanted to get this swap for the heavy oil Venezuela
holds. By the way Venezuela sits on 300 billion barrels of oil, even more than Saudi Arabia. It is huge.
GORANI: Extremely rich country that is in a dire economic situation. Is Russia now more involved? I mean, did they invest in Venezuela and that's
why they want Maduro to stay? Or is it because they wanted to Maduro to stay, so they invested in Venezuela.
DEFTERIOS: This goes back to the days of Chavez and Maduro. It's almost like quick sand. One was suggesting Chavez had rule of the country.
Maduro is not a great manager, they're in deep and they'll have to stay there. Economically is very important to point out as well. This is an
economic crisis like we've never seen before. You think of Zimbabwe or Iran or Sudan.
Venezuela is in a league of its own. We had a million percent inflation in 2018. IMF is suggesting a target I have never seen in my 30 years of
covering economics. 14 million percent. The collapse in the oil production, something I've never seen before. You go back to 2009, it was
3 million barrels a day.
GORANI: We have a graphic, by the way.
DEFTERIOS: Look at the numbers here, the oil market was shocked when it came out in March of 2019, just two months ago. 732,000 barrels a day.
The reason is, the United States put on additional sanctions at the end of January, on the state oil company, squeezed it of capital and it cannot
reinvest. They defaulted on the bonds they had in the United States and left a number of investors vulnerable as well.
Economically, Maduro is doing a horrible job. Russia put this money at stake. Preceded by China. They're kind of looking now, are we going to
get our money back. And then there was a conversation yesterday between Foreign Minister Lavrov of Russia and Mike Pompeo, the Secretary of State.
And lower right came out today suggesting, it's amazing, we were told by the United States, stay out of Venezuela, while the United States is
getting involved. I don't see either party right now, and plus China backing off. It was so much money at stake.
GORANI: You mentioned China, what's China that doing in Venezuela?
DEFTERIOS: China's been quiet during this dispute. But China has needed the energy because of this expanding economy, and decided 10 years ago,
over a series of years, to put $50 billion at play. They're a major player, have you both China and Russia planting flags there, and you have
the United States as a spoiler backing Juan Guaido.
[14:20:00] Guaido is succeeding right now. That's why I don't think Russia is going to be so easy to pick up its sticks and leave and say I lost $20
billion in the last five years.
GORANI: China is interesting. They are really investing all over the world, Africa as well. Very interesting to see them also enter Venezuela.
More questions for Rick Singer. Parents whose daughter got admitted to Stanford paid him over $6 million.
GORANI: Two court cases for WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange. A British court sentenced him to nearly a year in prison for skipping bail. On
Thursday, he tried to avoid more serious charges in the United States.
Dozens of supporters chanted "hands off Assange" outside a London courthouse. Inside, he appeared via video hookup to fight extradition to
the U.S. that wants him to face charges related to the release of classified files almost a decade ago. The next step in the extradition
process will be another hearing at the end of May. While extradition might seem like a simple thing between two countries as closely allied as the
U.S. and U.K., it is often very complicated. Especially when it comes to cyber crimes. Isa Soares has our story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ISA SOARES, CNN HOST: Before Julian Assange faced extradition, it was his friend
Lauri Love who fought to avoid American justice.
LAURI LOVE, FOUGHT EXTRADITION TO THE UNITED STATES: On an October evening in 2013, a large number of gentlemen turned up to the door. They got
handcuffs and arrest warrants and thrust in my face.
SOARES: Love was accused of hacking several government agencies, stealing data from the U.S. Army, NASA and the Missile Defense Agency.
You could consider yourself a computer hacker?
LOVE: I am a hacker, Yes. Those skills can be put to more constructive and malicious ends. I would consider myself more on the constructive or
SOARES: The Americans didn't see it that way. A U.S. indictment detailed crimes that carried a U.S. prison sentence of up to 99 years.
How did you react? What did you think?
LOVE: It was scary and mind-boggling as well.
SOARES: He lives with his parents in rural England, is diagnosed autistic. At his extradition hearing he argued he would not survive the U.S. prison
system given his health and should instead be tried in the U.K.
[14:25:00] LOVE: I worry for the toll it's taking on my health and the family's.
SOARES: A British judge ruled in his favor after a four-year battle. His case struck a nerve among the British public wary of American justice. And
could provide a road map for Julian Assange.
You said publicly that Julian Assange is being put on a sacrificial altar?
Why do you say that?
LOVE: He is up for this quite horrific treatment he would face in the U.S. it is a pretext to send a message, if you are going to report on things,
there is a line, you need not to go beyond that line.
SOARES: They're making an example of him?
LOVE: They're making an example of him, yes.
SOARES: The U.K. has long wrestled with sending hackers to the U.S. for extradition.
In 2012 then Home Secretary Theresa May controversially blocked the extradition of Gary McKinnon, he was accused of breaking into U.S. military
NICK VAMOS, FORMER HEAD OF EXTRADITION FOR THE CROWN PROSECUTION SERVICE: She said his health and his life was in danger, because he was threatening
to commit suicide if he was extradited.
SOARES: Former head of extradition for the Crown Prosecution Service, he worked on all three cases, McKinnon, Love and Assange, and says there's a
key difference with Assange.
VAMOS: When it comes down to, the U.K. doesn't have any skin in the game with Assange. He did not commit any offences here. He's not a U.K.
citizen, there's no great national interest to say, you know, we need to protect Julian Assange.
SOARES: Lauri Love says he visited the WikiLeaks founder in the Ecuadorean Embassy just weeks before his arrest.
LOVE: I know this from personal experience, knowing your situation is about to go from difficult to extremely difficult. This was weighing
heavily on his mind.
SOARES: It's a weight Assange may be bearing for a long time. It may be years before there's a final ruling on his extradition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Still to come tonight, a tense night for millions in India. There's a powerful cyclone on the way, we'll tell you where it is now,
where it is headed and we'll have other top stories as well, stay with CNN.
GORANI: If you're watching us in India or that part of the world, some of you may be quite worried, a monstrous storm is just hours of way from
slamming into the east coast of the country. And it has strengthened significantly in the Bay of Bengal. What is remarkable about this cyclone
is the number of people who could be affected. As many as 100 million or along the path.
[14:30:00] They are racing to get out while they can. This could be the region's biggest and most powerful storm in years. Meteorologist, Tom
Sater, is tracking it from the CNN Weather Center. This would be the -- I understand this would be the equivalent of a category 5, once it has fully
TOM SATER, CNN METEOROLOGIST: We're just two kilometers per hour away from category 5 strength, it's a strong four. We've been watching it since last
weekend. We thought the environment would break it down somewhat, sheering the top level of the winds. That is not occurring right now.
The strength in the environment is favorable for this to make landfall at least equivalent to a strong category four. You mentioned 100 million in
the path here, about 200 million are going to feel tropical storm force winds. There's big concerns here, we could have images like we did in
Mozambique. But their population is so much greater in this area. They're very vulnerable, because in the state of Odisharight here, it's one of the
economically challenged state. Many lived on the coastline, they're fishermen, they live in huts. Even the building materials are not up to
the standards they were in some of the villages in Mozambique. So this is a big concern.
Evacuations are taking place. They believe they're going to be able to evacuate a million people. It's after the midnight hour now and already
the rain and the winds are moving in.
But then this system moves in toward Kolkata. These are the warnings right now. In 1999, the last time we had a system of this strength, took 10,000
But things have changed since '99. India's Met department is good at getting out warnings. Here Odisha, this is Madhya Prades. And so where
we're going to have landfall, the amount of people that live here, staggering. Visakhapatnam, right here, is a good two million people.
The town of -- we've got about 600,000 in Brahmapur. And then you get 15 million up in this area. You can see how bright the colors of red is.
They've already been receiving some rains in the north, it's pre-monsoon rain up in Bangladesh, in northeast India. So the rivers are high. And
the Brahmaputra River runs through here, so that could be a big problem like we had with Idai that hit in southern Mozambique.
Strongest cyclone this early in the season. Monsoon season doesn't begin until June 1st. Typically, we'll have some cyclones in May and June. But
the last time was Nargis, that moved into Myanmar. And, Hala, that took 100,000 lives.
There are some differences here. And we're hoping that if we get the system move fast, then we'll alleviate some of the problems with it just
hanging around like some storms do and drop a lot of rain.
This one, $6 billion in damage, Hudhud. That was the last time we had anything even equivalent to a category three. This is going to be
Puri is a town, that's got about 200,000. They have holy sites there, Hindi holy sites. They have told everybody to leave this area and they're
evacuating. But they're going to be in the strongest winds.
I suspect we could have a storm surge over five meters. And again, a number of the people who live here, most of them are at sea level or just
Now, the winds die down, but it's really about these rains. And, of course, even with the tropical storm force winds, knocking out
communication, knocking out power, water supply, Puerto Rico took them a year to get electric and power back on. This could really be devastating.
And again, the economic problems that they have in some of these areas such as Odisha is going to be aggravated. When, of course, you have all this
flooding in the storm surge, the wind damage, and then the heavy, heavy amounts of rain.
When you get into this area, the delta of Bangladesh, it is prone to widespread flood problems, just because of the sea level and the slow rise
getting anything higher than that.
So again, a well-defined eye is just underneath the Visakhapatnam moving toward Puri. It'll probably make landfall, we think it between 10:00 a.m.
and 11:00 a.m. tomorrow morning. Winds right now are howling already in the dark.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: We'll keep our eye on it. Thanks, Tom Sater.
Some news just in. Facebook, we all use it and it has designated some high-profile people dangerous, and says it is taking them off the platform.
They include the right-wing conspiracy theorist, Alex Jones, and his media outlet, Infowars. He was previously banned from Facebook, but will now
also be banned from Instagram.
Also banned, the Nation of Islam leader, Louis Farrakhan, who's notorious for using anti-Semitic language. And the fringe right-wing media
personality, Milo Yiannopoulos. He was kicked on Twitter, I believe. And now, this means he is not on Facebook anymore.
Now to the story. Intelligence experts have been pouring over a video released this week, reportedly showing ISIS leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi,
for the first time in five years.
The video appears to refute the rumors that he was seriously injured or even dead. Al-Baghdadi mentions the fall of Sudan's president and the
attacks in Sri Lanka, indicating it was recorded in just a past few weeks.
I've been speaking to journalists, Hassan Hassan, and former CIA analyst, Nada Bakos, to get their take on what we can learn from the video itself.
GORANI (voice-over): This is the first time we've seen Abu Bakr al- Baghdadi, the leader of ISIS, since this video shot at the Al Noor Mosque in 2014.
He's visibly aged, note the graying beard. But what else can we glean about his possible condition or location? Former CIA analyst, Nada Bakos,
is trained to scour videos like this for clues. The first thing she noticed was how similar the Baghdadi video is to the last one released by
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. The former leader of Al-Qaeda in Iraq who was killed by U.S. forces in 2006.
NADA BAKOS, FORMER CIA ANALYST: Having that AK-47 at him, sitting next to the wall on the pillows. It's all very staged, very similar to (INAUDIBLE)
several of his videos.
[14:35:00] GORANI: She thinks the walls may have been covered in fabric to hide revealing details.
BAKOS: They don't want to give away what country they're in by anything that's representative of the walls.
GORANI: For instance, they'd be trying to cover say sockets, wall sockets, anything that could pinpoint where they are geographically.
BAKOS: Right, exactly. Anything that gives an indication of where they are --
GORANI: Author and journalist, Hassan Hassan, thinks there may in fact be no wall at all.
HASSAN HASSAN, AUTHOR AND JOURNALIST: So the sheet behind him could also indicate not just that it could be a tent, but it could be a tunnel or the
wall has some distinct features. In my opinion, the more likely thing is that he's living in a tent in a tunnel.
GORANI: Hassan says there are clues in the other fabrics as well.
HASSAN: The kind of furniture that's displayed in the video is a common furniture sold in places like Iraq and Syria. I would say from the -- one
of the men sitting next to him was wearing, I would say is more specifically from either eastern Syria or northern Iraq. The areas that
ISIS controlled. There are areas like the Hamrin Mountains, for example, in northeast -- northern eastern Iraq. Also in Iraq, in the north, there
are mountainous areas, there are desert areas where it's very hard.
Even if you know that al-Baghdadi is somewhere around there, it's very hard to track him down and know where he is.
GORANI: We notice there's an AK-47 leaning against the wall or the fabric of the tent, whatever it is. And also, you said a suicide belt. What
should we take away from that?
HASSAN: That also indicates that he's not living or staying in Istanbul or somewhere else. He's in the areas where ISIS has some center of -- some
GORANI: Baghdadi is wearing heavy winter clothes, including thick socks in the video. But Bakos thinks this could be a ruse.
BAKOS: It could be that he's some place warm, but he's wearing, you know, clothing that makes it appear that in some place that's actually cold. So
I wouldn't think Baghdadi is having -- would be thinking through some of these things.
GORANI: She says the fact Baghdadi has gained some weight could give us a clue about his living conditions.
BAKOS: It looks like he hasn't had a lot of activity, which tells me that also that he's having to stay in a confined area, whether it's the house or
GORANI: For Hassan, this video appears to refute the theory that Baghdadi is injured or unwell.
He doesn't look like someone who's living a difficult life. Having to do - - you know what I mean? So when you look at his nails and his appearance, and the fact that he looks clean and bathed, what does that tell us?
HASSAN: Well, it shows that he wasn't on the run. He was moving from one place to another comfortably. There's some sort of confidence where he is
-- you know, unlike reports that shown he was always panicking, he's always -- he's losing his health and so on and so forth, so it shows that when he
was hiding, when he is hiding now, he is pretty comfortable.
GORANI: The slick production techniques clearly an effort to demonstrate that ISIS, as an organization, and Baghdadi, as its leader, are alive and
well, despite the loss of their territory.
GORANI: And we'll be posting that, by the way, on our Facebook page. So check that out. And you can also post your comments below, if you'd like
Now, in the United States, a rabbi survived who survived that deadly synagogue shooting in California, says his faith taught him what to do as
bullets started flying.
A gunman opened fire in southern California Saturday killing one person and wounding three others. One of them, Rabbi Yisroel Goldstein who lost a
finger in the attack. He spoke at the National Day of Prayer service at the White House today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RABBI YISROEL GOLDSTEIN, SYNAGOGUE ATTACK SURVIVOR: I should have been dead by now based on the rule of statistics. I was in the line of fire,
bullets flying all the way. My fingers got blown off, but I did not stop. The rabbi taught me, as a Jew, you are a soldier of God. You need to stand
tall and stand fast and do whatever it takes to change the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The rabbi spoke as Israel marked one of the most solemn days on its national calendar, holocaust remembrance day. Prime Minster Netanyahu
later read that day holocaust memorial in Jerusalem. The entire nation came to a standstill this morning as sirens rang out across the country to
mark the occasion.
The commemorations also included the traditional March of the Living at the site of Auschwitz concentration camp in Poland. International Holocaust
Remembrance day is on January 27th, but Israel marks it separately.
[14:40:03] Meanwhile, a new holocaust movie is creating a big debate in Israel. "Eva's Story." It is based on a diary of a 13-year-old holocaust
victim. The film was released on Instagram, interestingly. And it depicts what the holocaust would have looked like if social media had existed at
But as Oren Liebermann reports, not everyone likes the idea. Take a look.
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): More than 70 years after the holocaust, there are dwindling few survivors to pass on
their memories. The stories commemorated in documentaries and museums, amidst a fear their lessons are fading.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, my name is Eva. That's me.
LIEBERMANN: Eva Heyman (ph) is the new face of those lessons. The 13- year-old Hungarian Jew kept a diary the last months before she was deported to Auschwitz in May 1944, where she would die.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are surrounded by war, but I'm always seeing the sun.
LIEBERMANN: Her story was all but forgotten, until Instagram brought it back to life.
MATI KOCHAVI, CREATOR, "EVA'S STORY": We were looking for a way to deal with this memory, and manage this memory in a way that's going to be
relevant for the younger generation today.
LIEBERMANN: Eva's diary was reimagined on social media. On March 31st, 1944, she wrote, "Today, an order was issued that from now on Jews have to
wear a yellow star-shaped patch. The order tells exactly how big the star patch must be, and that it must be sewn on every outer garment, jacket or
coat. When grandma heard this, she started acting up again and we called the doctor."
The idea to bring the diary to life on Instagram was the brain child of Mati and Maya Kochavi, who wanted the Holocaust to reach a younger
KOCHAVI: The diary, the journal is very short. It starts on February 12th when it's her birthday. On March, the Germans invade into Hungary. In May
30th, she's already on the train to Auschwitz. So it's a journal -- it's a journal of 108 days. That's all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think we will see sweet mother for some time.
LIEBERMANN: "Eva's Story" was released on the eve of Holocaust Memorial Day in Israel. By that time, it had hundreds of thousands of followers.
LIEBERMANN (on camera): Not everyone has been thrilled with the Instagram story. Advertised on billboards like this here behind me all around Tel
Aviv, critics have said it dumbs down the Holocaust and is a PR campaign in bad taste. Others have said it's a very short distance from a social media
campaign like this to selfies at Auschwitz.
LIEBERMANN (voice over): That was never the intent behind Eva Heyman's story, of course.
MAYA KOCHAVI, CO-CREATOR, "EVA'S STORY": Social media, especially Instagram is shallow, if you're looking for content that is shallow. And if
you're looking for content that is powerful and has magnitude and can cause revolutions even, you will very easily find it there.
LIEBERMANN: In her final diary entry written three days before she was deported from Hungary, she wrote, "Dear Diary, I don't want to die. I want
to live, even if it means that I'll be the only person here allowed to stay. I would wait for the end of the war in some cellar, just as long as
they didn't kill me. Only that they should let me live."
This was a way of humanizing the Holocaust for a modern audience, making it more relevant to millennials. It's the same message of "never again", it's
creators insist, just reimagined for a new generation to learn.
Oren Liebermann, CNN, Jerusalem.
GORANI: Still to come, the man at the heart of the U.S. college admission scandal was reportedly paid millions of dollars to admit some students.
We'll tell you more about these new revelations after the break.
[14:45:43] GORANI: You remember that college admissions scandal that involved some celebrities in the United States? Well, a source is telling
CNN that the family of a Chinese student admitted that Stanford University paid millions of dollars to Rick Singer, he's the mastermind behind the
scandal dubbed, "The Varsity Blues."
No charges have been filed against the parents or the student. Singer worked with dozens of wealthy parents to unfairly get their children into
top universities. And these sums are eye popping.
Brynn Gingras joins me now from New York with all the details. We're talking millions of dollars here for some of these students. What are the
BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Hala. This is why this is so -- its's mind blowing, really. It's significant. Because this is the
most amount of money that U.S. attorneys say any parent paid Rick Singer.
Now, it's unclear from our source exactly what sort of advantage these parents from China gained for their child. But we do know that child did
go to Stanford and that they give this amount, according to U.S. attorneys -- according to a source as well that $6.5 million. So, yes, a hefty
amount of money there.
Now, what we've also learned from all of this is that those parents have not been charged yet. Their child has not been charged or maybe won't even
be charged in this case.
And we also learned that the parents were actually connected to Singer, according to a source by a Michael Wu.
Now, he was a financial advisor at Morgan Stanley. And, you know, I talked to Wu's attorney who says that it was Morgan Stanley who gave the
recommendation of Singer to -- for him to then give to this client, these Chinese parents.
Morgan Stanley says they've actually terminated Michael Wu, since this is all broken out, because he wouldn't even cooperate its own internal
investigation inside the company of Morgan Stanley. So there's a lot going on.
And really, the bigger picture of this is just to show you how global this scam really went. We're talking about parents in China. We're talking
about serious amounts of money. We're talking about major companies, which we've known all along from the beginning of the scam that there were some
very wealthy parents tied to major, major companies that were part of this. So again, it gives you that idea.
GORANI: Sure. We know wealthy parents donate millions to universities. Sometimes they have entire buildings named after their families. And let's
be honest, that helps their kids probably get into those schools.
But this would be criminal. Well, I mean, this is -- this is basically corruption and paying someone off to get their kids in fraudulently.
I wonder, why did it take so long to uncover? Because these sums are so huge that they should be traceable, right?
GINGRAS: Well, yes, exactly. And again, these parents haven't been charged, and investigators say they're still looking into exactly what the
advantage was. So there isn't enough evidence there just yet to say that they paid Rick Singer this large amount of money to get their daughter,
their child into an elite school. That's, again, all still being investigated.
But that is a big defense that attorneys have said they'll be using is that they think Rick Singer, he had a legitimate business. They paid these
large amounts of money because that -- they believe that was the cost it took in order for his services. So those are some of the things we will
see, as these trials for the parents who pleaded not guilty, possibly go to trial maybe uncover. But that is certainly a defense that we've been
hearing as we continue with these discussions about the bigger picture of the story.
GORANI: Brynn Gingras, thanks very much. We'll be right back.
[14:50:48] GORANI: Some breaking news coming into us. The house of Venezuelan opposition leader, Leopoldo Lopez, has been raided, and this is
according to his family.
These are images that I'm, in fact, seeing for the first time.
They say it was done by, quote, "Unknown delinquents." This is obviously the inside of the apartment.
Lopez who was freed from house arrest a few days ago who said that he was - - his release was facilitated by armed people is staying at the Spanish embassy in Caracas with his family. And this is the wider family. They're
saying that his house has been raided and we're seeing -- I'm seeing these images for the first time and we're sharing them with you here on CNN.
We'll have more from Venezuela in the next hour.
Let's turn our attention to some lighter and happier news. The Duke and Duchess of Sussex have a reputation by now for not doing things the same
way as the royals before them.
We can add another thing to the list as the expected couple keeps the eagerly awaited birth of their child under heavy raps. The newest twist,
Meghan won't bring out her newborn for the same kind of photo opportunity that introduced the world to her husband Prince Harry decades ago.
And you'll remember, of course, in London, Kate as well coming out with each of her three babies on the steps there of that maternity wing in
Max Foster is covering all of this from Windsor. So, we were expecting potentially this birth to have happened by now. What's the latest, Max?
MAX FOSTER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What we're looking for the latest really, I can tell you, if I peer over the edge of the balcony here
there are probably more journalists than residents in Windsor currently right now.
Lots of people looking for story, partly based on fact that yesterday. It was announced by Buckingham Palace that Prince Harry will be going on a
foreign tour to the Netherlands next week. So the assumption is that the due date has to be this week, otherwise, we wouldn't be thinking about
traveling away next week.
And then there's this whole narrative, as you say, about the fact that they're trying to keep things as private as possible. So there's very
little treasury film here. And the photo call will be delayed. But we do expect it at least by next week.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The new royal heir in the United Kingdom.
FOSTER (voice-over): When the Duchess of Cambridge emerged from hospital with their first baby, Prince George in 2013, she amazed everyone waiting
outside. Including royal reporter, Emily Nash.
EMILY NASH, ROYAL CORRESPONDENT, HELLO!: She looked, every inch, the princess, as a mom myself, I found it slightly incredible that she was
looking so fresh.
FOSTER: Then Kate did it again with baby number two, Charlotte. And again with number three, Louis.
NASH: Most women who have given birth are not remotely thinking of putting themselves on display in front of the world's media within several hours of
that happening. So it's quite a feat for anyone to endure.
FOSTER: The tradition of royals appearing outside hospital shortly after giving birth only goes back a generation to, most famously, Princess Diana.
DICKIE ARBITER, FORMER ROYAL PRESS SECRETARY: Yes, it would have been painful, but she put on a brave face and she smiled. And she did what she
thought was expected in front of the cameras. Difficult to do straight after birth, but it was something that she felt had to be done and it was
FOSTER: The Duchess of Sussex isn't having any of it, though. She hasn't even revealed where she's having her baby. And she'll only appear before
the cameras after the family's had time to celebrate privately, in the words of the palace.
BONNIE GREER, CNN COMMENTATOR: She's saying to us that her baby, even though this baby's born into a very public family, one of the most public
in the world, is not a public baby. This is our baby. And we'll let you see this baby when we're ready to show you, if we show you.
FOSTER: And then there's the example that sets for other new mothers.
GREER: Women won't feel the pressure to look like they're ready for the cover of "Vogue" after they've given birth. And I think Meghan is leading
the way with that with this. I think it's great.
[14:55:08] FOSTER: It is pretty extraordinary, Hala, for anyone to expect a woman come out a few moments after birth then go back to work. But as
effectively what we now expect from senior royals, we have got used to that tradition over the last couple of decades.
GORANI: Yes. So there was this conspiracy theory, over the last few days that, in fact, they've had the baby, but they're just not sharing the news.
What are you hearing? As all the royal watchers and correspondents are gathered in Windsor eagerly expecting and anticipating an announcement?
FOSTER: Well, you know, they're not giving away much on the story. But they're not -- what information they are giving us is that they're going to
tell us when the duchess goes into birth and when the baby is born. And then there'll be this photo call.
So (INAUDIBLE) they are saying, we will find out when this baby is born. So they're flatly denying that the baby's been born already.
And while they're doing their own thing with their media strategy, if I can say that. They're certainly not misleading us anyway. They haven't misled
us in any way, up to this point, at least. So we're trusting them on this. We're trusting them the baby hasn't been born yet.
GORANI: All right, Max Foster, thanks very much. Have fun in Windsor this Thursday night. The weather looks delightful after we had a pretty good
All right. We're going to have a lot more at the top of the hour. I'm going to remind you of our top story. Of course, the attorney general of
the United States, William Barr, did not show up for congressional testimony in front of House of Representatives today, in the same way he
did at a Senate committee yesterday.
We are reporting that congressional Democrats are extremely unhappy about that. Nancy Pelosi, the top Democrat in the House, essentially saying that
Barr committed a crime.
Also, our top stories, what's happening in Venezuela with crowds that are a lot smaller in some cases, life pretty much back to normal in Caracas and
this is not something that Juan Guaido will be happy about. Of course, he was hoping for a much bigger uprising.
A lot more at the top of the hour. I'm Hala Gorani. Thanks for watching. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is next.