Return to Transcripts main page


Bumper Jobs Growth for The U.S.; White House and Congress Clash Over Mueller Report; Strong Employment Number Pushing Up Stocks; Seven Dead after Strongest Cyclone to Hit India in 20 Years; UK Prime Minister Heckled After Huge Defeats in Local Elections; Study Says Drug Therapy Eliminates Risk of Transmitting HIV; Trump Says Putin Not Looking to Get Involved in Venezuela; Trump: Putin Not Looking To Get Involved In Venezuela; Juan Guaido Calls For Peaceful March On Military Bases; Facebook Removing Controversial Figures From Platforms; Chinese Family Paid $6.5M To Scheme Mastermind; Back To The Drawing Board For Iconic French Cathedral. Aired 2- 3p ET

Aired May 3, 2019 - 14:00   ET


[14:00:00] HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London, happy Friday, around the world, I'm Hala Gorani.

A win for Donald Trump. It's been another bumper month of jobs growth for the United States. Also tonight -- dramatic scenes in India. The country

is being pounded by a huge cyclone. Also a huge boost to the prospects of ending the aids pandemic, drugs can stop the transmission of HIV. I'll

speak to the report's author. And it cannot be easy being Donald Trump.

New employment numbers came out today that approved that, the lowest unemployment rate in 50 years and another 260 jobs added to the economy.

Most presidencies would be shouting from the rooftops about numbers like that. But it's not easy be Donald Trump for several years. He can't shake

the cloud of the Mueller report and his popularity rating is low. He's fending off angry Democrats in Congress. Let's check in first at the White


Sarah Westwood is there. The President is boasting on social media about these unemployment numbers. Tell us more.

SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right, Hala. This is a good piece of economic news for the President. He has tweeted about the

fact that 263,000 jobs were added in the month of April. We also saw the unemployment rate fell to the lowest it's been in 150 years. A new poll

shows this is a bright spot for the President politically.

This is while his overall approval rating does remain under water. But the President seizing on that good economic news, a lot of his aides have been

out here promoting the April jobs report even as he is facing some problems on Capitol Hill as Democrats push to interview former members of his

administration that were mentioned in the Mueller report.

GORANI: And Donald Trump spoke to the Russian President, Vladimir Putin, today. I understand they discussed Venezuela. Did we get a readout of

that call and what was said?

WESTWOOD: White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders told us earlier today that we could expect a more detailed readout of that call. We haven't seen

that come from the White House. Sanders did tell reporters that the President and Vladimir Putin discussed Venezuela, that they even briefly

discussed the end of the Mueller investigation and they spoke about North Korea. They manage today touch on many different issues.

That conversation lasted more than an hour. And it's the first time that the two Presidents have spoken since the special counsel's investigation


GORANI: Interesting. I'd be very interested in seeing a more detailed readout. The President is saying he wants to block the -- any potential

testimony requests for don McGahn, the White House counsel on Capitol Hill. What's -- does he have the authority to do that, to block -- even if Don

McGahn is subpoenaed?

WESTWOOD: That's the key question, Hala. Because the White House is going to try to argue that McGahn's testimony to Congress is protected by

executive political privilege. McGahn spent 30 hours talking to Robert Mueller's investigators. So whether the White House has that authority is

going to be the heart of the debate over whether McGahn should sit down with the House judiciary committee.

They have ordered him to come sit before that committee. We asked Sarah Sanders whether the White House has instructed McGahn to defy that

subpoena. And she wasn't aware of that.

GORANI: Thanks very much. At the White House. A bit more on the surging U.S. economy. April was 103rd consecutive month of job growth. That

success is unprecedented. Let's bring in one of the top economists around to talk about it. He's Columbia University economics professor Jeffrey

Sachs, the Director for the Center for Sustainable Development.

[14:05:00] Thanks for being with us. We're talking 236,000 jobs created. Unemployment rate at 3.6 percent and wage growth, up 3.2 percent over the

last 12 months. Are these good numbers as far as you're concerned?

JEFFREY SACHS, ECONOMIST, PROFESSOR, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: These are good numbers, but I wouldn't go overboard in saying this is some kind of new

economic age. There are lots of weaknesses. First the job creation is either professionals or in low wage services, manufacturing, barely budged.

The structure of the economy is changing in a way that's not going to overcome the chronic low and falling wages of a large part of the


Another reason that the unemployment rate fell is that the labor force participation, the people who declare themselves looking for work or at

work, also fell. So there's a little statistical bump here. It was a fine month. We're still in a business cycle expansion. But there's lots of

structural problem in the U.S. economy. It's great for high-skilled, high- paid, highly educated workers. It's not good for a large, large part of the American economy, and nothing that I read in today's bls data changes

that structural problem.

GORANI: And the structural problem, you've spoken a lot about inequality as well, and how those who are at the -- in the bottom 90 percent that in

fact their net worth and real dollars and certainly their wages have not gone up as much as the top ten and even 1 percent. That's not being

addressed as far as these numbers are concerned, is what you're saying?

SACHS: A little bit. But this business cycle is not so strong, we know that also from the GDP numbers. We're seeing the peak of this business

cycle, but the structural problems are serious. Interestingly manufacturing, no change of employment. Retail, trade, the shops are

declining employment because of e-commerce. This is another shock that's going to hit a lot of people with high school education.

They're going to find it's harder to get the good job. Maybe they'll find a job. Because the jobs that are being created are lower wage service

jobs. So I think you should keep in mind that of course month to month, good news, the economy didn't fall off the rails, but it's an economy

that's kind of -- it's not soaring. It is at the top of the business cycle with a lot of structural weaknesses and no sign that the politicians in

Washington are doing anything about the deeper issues.

GORANI: And also debt is increasing, these tax cuts have added a lot to the debt. Longer term, what kind of risk does that pose to the U.S.

economy? If you're saying we're at the top of the business cycle, does that mean that we're looking potentially as going down and could that be

precipitous because of the debt load.

SACHS: We have a deficit of about 5 percent of national income. And that's at these strong times. So imagine if there's a downturn, what

that's going to look like. I can tell you being 40 years in the business of macro economics, we will have a down curve. I don't know when. But we

will have a downturn and we're not punishing ourselves. When you're at the top, you should be accumulating, reducing debt, net saving, we're not doing


The tax cuts, we're spending money we don't have against the future. Remember, Mr. Trump has an attention span that's very, very short. He

wants the immediate gratification, the future he doesn't care about, and so that's what we're seeing right now, that's why it's structurally worrying

that we're not attending to the real problems of soaring health care costs, wages declining for lower-skilled, less educated people, a budget deficit

that is raising the public debt and soaring. I just can't get -- I don't want people to only look month to month at the bumps. I want them to take

a few years out and see, we should be solving some problems.

[14:10:00] GORANI: If you look at the -- Donald Trump's popularity rating, overall, it's not great and compared to other Presidents, but on the

economy, he's at 56 percent approval. Obviously, these numbers help a lot, don't they, professor?

SACHS: They do. The business cycle is a big part of that. I can tell you how unpopular he would be in a downturn if you can imagine what his overall

ratings as adverse as they are right now, and politicians who bet on business cycles, they're making short term bet and is not long-term bets.

GORANI: I want your take quickly on what's going on in Venezuela. Juan Guaido sort of bet on a big uprising. He thought he would be able to oust

Nicolas Maduro. I didn't work. Economically, where is the country? With so much despair, why wouldn't someone like Guaido get more support to take


SACHS: The U.S. government theory was that they could starve Venezuela into it, that's the policy, what the -- it's a very immoral policy because

it's saying we'll make a whole country physically hungry, devoid of food, out medicine because we want the army to overthrow a government. We

shouldn't be in that business in trying to create such a despair that you create an overthrow. But that's U.S. policy.

That's what they mean when they say all options are on the table. It's a cynical policy, but it doesn't work, by the way, it's just leaving people,

very, very hungry, but it is not leading to a political solution, so that's why today the President of the U.N. general assembly said something

completely different. The two sides need to get together to negotiate, not the idea that they're going to create enough hunger and despair that a

military coup happens. That's the U.S. government policy. It makes no sense.

GORANI: And a lot of people forget how rich Venezuela could possibly be. They were producing just a few years ago, three million barrels of oil a

day. And so that's really almost -- makes the tragedy even more infuriating, the fact that they have so much, that they could be providing

for their people.

SACHS: Absolutely. And what happened was a lot of Venezuela mismanagement by Maduro, terrible mismanagement. But then the U.S. came in in the middle

of 2017 and basically said, you can't use international financial markets anymore. That made it impossible for the oil company to get its spare

parts and production has been plummeting. The U.S. has been trying to drive the country into the ground completely. It has succeeded in that.

It's created a massive humanitarian crisis.

But no political solution. The U.S. officials should understand we need negotiation not an overthrow of a government. If they thought that way, we

could see those two sides actually getting together to find a way out of this.

GORANI: For the sake of ordinary Venezuelans, let's hope that happens sooner rather than later. Thank you so much, joining us live from New


SACHS: Thank you so much.

GORANI: Seven people have died and almost a million more moved to higher ground as the strongest cyclone to hit India in 20 years has made landfall.

The country's east coast has been hammered by winds and rain with some frightens consequences. Take a look. In one city watched a bus tossed in

the wind. We don't know if anyone was inside. The storm is cutting a path towards Bangladesh. With our report, here's Anna Coren.

ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The sound of winds ripping through India's east coast. Cyclone Fani slams into the coast. It

threatens the lives of nearly 200 million people in its path. We have sustained winds of up to 240 kilometers an hour and wind gusts at 305

kilometers an hour. It's evaluated [14:15:00] a category four hurricane. The strongest cyclone to hit India in two decades.

[14:15:09] The powerful storm has been gaining strength over the Bay of Bengal all week prompting officials to begin emergency evacuations on

Thursday. At least a million people have been relocated in the last 24 hours.

Major ports were closed and fishermen were warned not to go out to sea. Some 900 shelters have also been set up across the area, but rain, powerful

winds and storm surges continue to bring widespread destruction. Rural infrastructure struggling against the storm. Meanwhile India's national

disaster response force, the coast guard and navy, remain on high alert for rescue operations.

The army and air force are also on stand by. The Indian Prime Minister says the government has allocated $144 million for cyclone relief to

affected areas. But there is certain that won't be nearly enough. As Fani leaves a trail of death and destruction.

GORANI: Pankaj Anand is Director of Programs and Humanitarian Response at Oxfam India. He's on the phone. You're coordinating relief efforts across

the affected zone. What have you been hearing from your regional offices?

PANKAJ ANAND, DIRECTOR OF PROGRAMS AND HUMANITARIAN RESPONSE, OXFAM INDIA (by telephone): What we are hearing is that the damages are extensive.

People have lost their homes and livelihood and they're taking shelter from their homes and then the telecommunications, transport, all government

services have suffered a massive jolt.

GORANI: Are you able to communicate with your crew on the ground with all of these communications issues and the infrastructure also took a big hit?

ANAND: Since evening, I've been finding it difficult to communicate. But I've been managing to communicate with a lot of our people on the ground.

GORANI: OK. What is most needed right now in the effected areas?

ANAND: Hala, the biggest need that people have is basically shelter, water, and dry rations.

GORANI: Are they getting what they need?

ANAND: The government has come forward and they're doing their best. But the need is much greater than what the NGOs can offer at the moment.

GORANI: What happens to the people who can't get the help they need at this moment?

ANAND: I think the government and the NGOs to the coordination mechanism, they're trying to do their best and identify people who need help.

GORANI: Yes. What is your biggest concern right now?

ANAND: Our biggest concern is being able to reach out to people because the transport network and the telecommunications network has badly

suffered. As you know, Hala, this is India's strongest cyclone in the last 20 years. And a hundred million people are going to get affected. This is

a huge number. And my big worry is that by tonight, past midnight, it will now hit another neighboring state. And the damages are going to be


GORANI: Absolutely. And the storm is not done either. Thanks very much. Good luck to you and your colleagues.

[14:20:00] Here in the U.K. it's been another crushing day for Theresa May. Today was notable, her Conservative Party has been pummeled in local

elections losing more than 1,000 seats. Here she is being heckled by a member of her own party in Wales.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don't you resign? We don't want you.


GORANI: These are people from her own party. If you were wondering how bad it is for Theresa May. A man yelling, why don't you resign. The

opposition Labour Party suffered big defeats. Mrs. May says she'll resume Brexit talks with Labour after this weekend. It could be a major boost to

the prospects of ending the aids pandemic. Resume Brexit talks with labor after this weekend.

It could be a major boost to the prospects of ending the aids pandemic. Scientists say they've found a way to eliminate sexual transmission of the

virus. And it's shaping up to be a dramatic week of protests in Venezuela. We'll tell you what the demonstrators are planning next.


GORANI: Now to what promises to be a major breakthrough in AIDS, the risk can be eliminated with effective drugs treatment. This is huge. And

that's according to a study. If everyone in the world with HIV knew their status and had access to effective therapy, if that was the case, no new

cases would occur. Now, AIDS has killed more than 35 million people since it was first identified in the early '80s. I'm joined by the coleader of

that study. Thank you for being with us. This was a study of 1,000 men.

ALISON RODGER, PROFESSOR, UCL, INSTITUTE OF GLOBAL HEALTH: That's right. The study was in two phases. The first phase, partner one, gave us the

answer to people with heterosexual sex, there was no transmission. We continued the study with gay men and we thousands 1,000 gay male couples,

and over eight years and the couples in total had 76,000 condom-less sex acts which is a lot of sex, and there were no transmissions. We've known

for a while, if you're on an effective HIV treatment, it drops your risk of transmission. To say that it eliminates it completely is new.

GORANI: These are existing drugs that people can take.

RODGER: Yes. It's HIV treatment that we use to treat the virus. If you get people onto them that are positive, they have normal life expectancy.

[14:25:05] GORANI: If everyone one in the world who knew their status had their drugs, we could end the pandemic.

RODGER: We could. We know there's about 37 million people with HIV globally and about three quarters are positive. We still have got about 70

percent on treatment. So you're right, we've got a way to go in terms of offering people easy access and treatment.

GORANI: The infected partner has to stay on these drugs for life.

RODGER: Yes. And it's also used to treat the HIV. Now what we're saying, you're sexually noninfectious which is a powerful message.

GORANI: It feels a bit like that, the last few years, this is a disease you can live a normal which is a powerful message. Which is a powerful


It feels a bit like that, the last few years, this is a disease you can live a normal life where in the beginning it was a death sentence.

RODGER: It was a death sentence. There was a period that were just bleak. Now we have such effective treatments. Now what we're saying is that you

cannot transmit the virus and that's an underlying concern for people with HIV.

GORANI: What about women with HIV?

RODGER: Absolutely. So it's the same and the partner, the first phase of the partner study, got the answer, completely the same message, it's such a

powerful message.

GORANI: This is one of the most significant findings, really in terms of addressing --

RODGER: It's addressed that question, there will be no further research in that area, the question is answered.

GORANI: What was your personally your reaction as one of the co-authors of this?

RODGER: We were delighted, it was such a powerful result that we thought we're just improve the quality of life for people with HIV.

GORANI: How does it work in these studies. Obviously, it's over time. This isn't like one day to the next. Over time you accumulate this data,

right, so little by little you're starting to realize how effective this is?

RODGER: We are. But you really need to get the volume of people into your study and you need to get the length to follow up because otherwise you're

not sure, it could be by chance. You need a large study and such a volume of data that you're completely sure your result is accurate.

GORANI: There were a few of the men who did contract men but that's because you realized they had sex outside of their partnership. They were

honest act that up front?

RODGER: It's a really important part. This was a real-life study. A third of HIV negative men had sex with other men and they were -- we

recorded that information. And we know from sequencing the viruses, we know I didn't come from their positive partner. I think the message is, if

you're HIV and on effective treatment, you can't pass the virus. But if you're not sure of their status, you have to use condoms.

GORANI: This is great news. We don't often report great news. But in this case, we're happy to do it. Let's take you to the White House,

President Trump spoke with the Prime Minister a few minutes ago. Let's listen to what he said.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The best economy we've ever had, people tend to like you. We're both doing well in that regard. Thank

you very much for being here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What options are you looking at to get humanitarian assistance to Venezuela.

TRUMP: I had a good talk with President Putin, we talked about Venezuela and many things. And he is not looking at all to get involved in Venezuela

other than he'd like to see something positive happen for Venezuela. And I feel the same way. We want to get some humanitarian aid. Right now people

are starving. They have no water, they have no food. It's one of the richest countries in the world 20 years ago and now they don't have food

and water for their people.

So we want to help on a humanitarian basis and I thought it was a very positive conversation I had with President Putin on Venezuela.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you address the election meddling issue?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you talking about adding the China to it or what exactly?

[14:30:00] TRUMP: We're talking about a nuclear agreement where we make less and they make less and maybe even where we get rid of some of the

tremendous firepower that we have right now. We're spending billions of dollars on nuclear weapons. Numbers like we've never spent before. We

need that, but -- they are also -- and China is also, we discussed the possibility of a three-way deal instead of a two-way deal.

And China, I've already spoken to them. They would like to be a part of that deal. In fact, during the trade talks, we started talking about that.

They were excited about that, maybe even more excited than about trade. But they felt very strongly about it. So I think we're going to probably

start up something very shortly between Russia and ourselves and maybe to start off, and I think China will be added down the road.

We'll be talking about non-proliferation, we'll be talking about a nuclear deal of some kind and I think it will be a very comprehensive one.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, did you address the election meddling issues that came up in the Mueller report with Mr. Putin today?

TRUMP: We discussed and he actually sort of smiled when he said something to the effect that it started off as a mountain and it ended up being a

mouse. But he knew that because he knew there was no collusion, whatsoever. So pretty much that's what it was. It started off --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: did you tell -- Mr. President, did you tell him not to meddle in the next election --

TRUMP: Excuse me. I'm talking. I'm answering this question. You are very rude.

So we had a good conversation about many different things. OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you tell him not to meddle in the next election?

TRUMP: We didn't discuss that. Really, we didn't discuss it. We discussed five or six things. We also -- we went into great detail on

various things, especially, I would say the nuclear, especially maybe Venezuela. We talked about North Korea at great length and pretty much

that's it.

We also discussed trade. We intend to do a lot of trade with Russia. We do some right now. It's up a little bit. But he'd like to do trade and

we'd like to do trade and getting along with Russia and China, getting along with all of them is a very good thing, not a bad thing, it's a good

thing, it's a positive thing. Getting along with other countries, including your country, by the way. But getting along with countries is a

good thing. And we want to have good relationships with every country.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, should Mueller testify? Would you like to see him testify?

TRUMP: I don't know. That's up to our attorney general, who I think has done a fantastic job. Yes, go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, why would the Congress --

TRUMP: Yes, go ahead. Yes, please.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, what about you visiting Slovakia?

TRUMP: Well, I'd like to. I know people from Slovakia and they're incredible people. I would love to. It's a beautiful country and it's

doing very well. It's doing very well. Yes, please?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) tariffs on cars, it was the car industry --

TRUMP: Well, the tariffs have been a necessary thing for me to do, because in the case of the European Union, they have not treated us right. We're

losing $181 billion a year. We have been for many years. And the European Union has not treated us properly. But we'll see what happens with regard

to tariffs on cars with the European Union. We haven't made a decision on that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, are you going to nominate the defense secretary, Shanahan? Are you going to make it official?

TRUMP: It'll be discussed next week.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, it's World Press Freedom Day. Can you say anything? We've heard a lot about your grievances to us --

PRESIDENT TRUMP: Say it again. Say it again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's World Press Freedom Day. We've heard a lot about your grievances about us. But can you say something that you can

improve to improve communication and relationship with the press?

TRUMP: Well, I think I have a very good relationship with some of the press. And, unfortunately, some of the press doesn't cover me accurately.

In fact, they go out of their way to cover me inaccurately, so I don't think that's a free press. I think that's a dishonest press. And I want

to see a free press.

I mean, today I was happy to see on the front page of the New York Times, for the first time, where they were talking about spying and they were

talking about spying on my campaign. That's a big difference between the way they've been covering, but that's a big story. That's a story bigger

than Watergate, as far as I'm concerned.

So, I want to see freedom of the press. And I get treated fairly by some press, but I get treated very unfairly by other press. And, frankly, I

think that's very dishonest. And I don't consider that. When you have stories that are purposely written badly, in many cases, very much on

purpose, I mean, you look at it. That's not free press, that's the opposite of free press.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, have you decided whether you'll invoke executive privilege as it relates to Don McGahn?

TRUMP: That'll all be determined over the next week or so.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But you said it was done --

TRUMP: But, you know, I will say this, there has been no president in history that has given what I've given in terms of looking at just a total

witch hunt. I call it the "Russian hoax." It turned out to be no collusion, no obstruction. It was a total hoax.

And, yet, I was transparent. We gave 1.4 million documents. We gave hundreds of people. I let him interview the lawyer, the White House

lawyer, for 30 hours. Think of that, thirty hours. I let him interview other people. I didn't have to let him interview anybody. I didn't have

to give any documents. I was totally transparent because I knew I did nothing wrong.

It turned out I did nothing wrong. No collusion with Russia. Think of it, $35 million, they spent, they wasted, over a period of two years. No

collusion, no obstruction.

Thank you all very much. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you.

HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: All right. Words we've heard before from the U.S. president, no collusion. He called the Mueller investigation

the "Russian hoax." No obstruction as well.

He talked about his conversation with the Russian president, Vladimir Putin. He said the men discussed Venezuela saying that Vladimir Putin and

Russia are not looking to get involved in Venezuela. That they had a very positive conversation on that.

[14:35:05] He was asked, well, did you ask or discuss Russian election meddling with the Russian president, and he said we did not discuss that

Russian meddling in upcoming elections, which is -- would be surprising to many people who have been covering Russian attempts at interfering in U.S.


You'll remember, of course, that the American intelligence community reported that there'd been attempts to interfere and meddle in U.S.

elections. That that finding was then affirmed by the Senate Intelligence Committee and the Mueller report detailed as well. Many attempts to


The president of the United States, though, did not feel the need to bring that up with Vladimir Putin in his phone conversation with the Russian

president today. So that's what we just heard from the oval office in the White House. The president was hosting the Slovak prime minister,


Now, speaking of Venezuela, the opposition leader there is trying to rally more soldiers to join as attempted uprising against President Nicolas


Juan Guaido, president of the National Assembly, is urging his supporters to peacefully march on military bases across the country tomorrow.

So far, Venezuela's top military brass is pretty much standing by, by Mr. Maduro.

Let's get the very latest now from Caracas. Paula Newton joins us live.

What's the very latest here? Because Guaido is out. He's trying to rally support. Is he -- is he going to be successful? Because in the first few

days, the crowds really probably were disappointing to him and his supporters?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think the issue here is that he's escalating the situation. You know, he said that he wants them

to peacefully march on military escalation - I'm sorry, military installations. Hala, that's not really possible. He is setting his

protestors up for some type of a confrontation.

Now, of course, he says he admits himself that it is important that they continue to have the numbers out on the streets. But when we have both the

U.N. and human rights organizations said that they're very concerned about the violence, we are unfortunately being set up for more pitched battles on

the streets tomorrow as Juan Guaido continues to say in the first place, that we will win. And the second place, so they continue to have

conversations with high-ranking military officials. And that he wants people out on the streets literally, their presence felt in front of those

soldiers, in front of that National Guard, whether they're at barracks or airfields to say please come with us and join us.

I thought it was interesting, though, President Trump there, talking about his phone call with Vladimir Putin, the tone completely changed in terms of

we heard earlier in the week from Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, saying not only all options are on the table, but clearly military action would be

one of those.

And now, President Trump really changing the tone, Hala, and saying, look, our concern is humanitarian aid. Humanitarian aid. And what he's doing

there is really bringing back to the floor what have been weeks of back channel negotiations with many, many countries involved including Russia to

try and see if they could come to some kind of peaceful conclusion here in Venezuela, to call for those internationally monitored elections within the

next year.

We are far from that, Hala. And remember, that this week on Tuesday started with Juan Guaido saying that they would prevail, and instead we had

that failed uprising. Hala?

GORANI: Yes. So why is Juan Guaido still a free man? I mean, to put it bluntly, Maduro, from his vantage point, this man tried to overthrow him.

But he's holding rallies, he's out in public. What's the reason for that?

NEWTON: Well, I can tell -- trying to be able to arrest him, to actual charges and evidence, that's ongoing. They continue to try and gather

evidence to try and prove that his actions have been treasonous. Having said that, Hala, you have to think that around the table is Nicolas Maduro,

they are discussing whether or not arresting him wouldn't play into his own hands and make him more of a figure head for the opposition.

The opposition here for years, Hala, has been anything but united. This might be something that actually unites them. And as Juan Guaido has said

before, I'm ready for you, if you want to arrest me. You can give it a try.

So at that point in time, what they're trying to do is really put pressure on those around him. And I want to remind everyone, that his chief of

staff still remains detained today with no evidence or charges against him.

GORANI: All right. Thanks very much. Paula Newton is live in Caracas.

Many Venezuelans have been living in dire circumstances for years. There have been shortages of food, medicine, and other critical supplies.

They're only getting worst. And that may explain why some are willing to risk their lives, to take to the streets against the Maduro government.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh talks to some of the protestors and we warn you, his report, includes some disturbing images.

[14:40:02] NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Venezuela's army brushing under the carpet, the mess made here Tuesday by protests that showed the divisions like never before.

The same morning, President Nicolas Maduro put on this code like display of loyalty from his army.

As both sides in this month's long standoff licked their wounds.

This abiding image, which is graphic, of a protestors hit by an armored vehicle, captured the world's attention. Showing the escalating brutality.

It all happened next to this man, Edison (ph), who says he rushed to help his fellow protestors hit by a truck and he's now in intensive care in the

next hospital room.

"I saw one of my fellow protesters on the floor," he says. "And when I reached down to grab him, the police shot me. The bullet got in and

perforated my artery. I was close to death. They're still draining it. This pillow is blooded from the night before. I thought we were all going

to die. I couldn't say anything. I just saw the policeman above me. He kicked me and I tried to cover my wound, but he kept kicking me."

Outside, a body is taken away. We think it is that of 14-year-old Yoifre Hernandez (ph), shot dead by the same security forces that are now

investigating the death, his father says.

"It was a live bullet," says the father. "It looks like he was shot from above because of the angle of the bullet. It came in here and left here.

I didn't go into the protest at all, neither that he. But that day, I don't know, maybe the adrenaline. He told me, "I'll be right back, dad."

And he left.

Back at the scene of the crime, police combed the ground near the damaged fence. But there are as many holes now, too, in the army's claim to be the

righteous protector of the people.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Caracas.


GORANI: The U.S. is looking for ways to give Guaido a financial boost as it weighs possible military action. Although, we -- as Paula newton was

mentioning there, have heard a slightly different message coming from the White House and President Trump there talking about trying to prioritize

humanitarian relief.

Our Kylie Atwood joins me now from Washington with more.

First of all, let's talk a little bit about this conversation between Vladimir Putin and the U.S. president. Donald Trump saying Vladimir Putin

told him he's not looking to get involved in Venezuela. I found that interesting since they have a couple hundred military personnel on the


KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: That's right. And it's going in stark contrast to what we heard from Secretary Pompeo just earlier

this week saying that it was the Russians who convinced Maduro not to leave the country earlier this week.

Secretary Pompeo said that he was headed for Cuba and that the Russians convinced him to stay. And now we have President Trump taking as far as we

can tell, the stance of the Russians, President Putin at this point, face value, saying that he's not looking to get involved in Venezuela. We

obviously know that's not the case based on what we've seen over the past few days and over the past few weeks there.

But one of the interesting things to note here is that there's been a change. We saw President Trump, as you said, talk about trying to get

humanitarian aid into Venezuela and trying to do that with Russia. The question is, can they actually work together? How are they going to

actually work together to make that happen, considering they're both supporting the two leaders who are in competition there?

GORANI: Yes, that was interesting. And also, you say that what Mike Pompeo said was in contrast to what we're hearing from the Oval Office

today. And Lindsey Graham, the top Senate Republican, tweeted, where is our aircraft carrier? Let's put up this tweet. "Cuba, Russia, send troops

to prop Maduro up in Venezuela while we talk and sanction. Where is our aircraft carrier?"

Who is he speaking for exactly here?

ATWOOD: It's a bit unclear. And Senator Graham is known to kind of say these random things sometimes, because he is an advocate of military

intervention when it's needed.

But one thing to consider here is that I reported yesterday that the Trump administration is considering financially bolstering their support for

Maduro which could come in the form of cash. And obviously, if they decide to do that, they're going to have to figure out how to free up some cash,

which is now frozen in the assets of the Venezuelan government here in the U.S. But they'd have to fly it down some way, right?

And so it could possibly be that they'd be using a U.S. military aircraft to do that. Now, sources tell me they would not fly directly into

Venezuela. They'd fly to countries along its border, places like Colombia and then bring that cash in so that Guaido would be able to potentially

provide some more financial support to military leaders and to members of the government who are on his side, giving him some more legitimacy.

[14:45:05] But we haven't seen that come to fruition just yet. So it's something that we're tracking very closely.

GORANI: All right. Kylie Atwood, thanks very much.

Facebook is banning a number of high-profile people from its platform calling them dangerous individuals. Among them, right-wing conspiracy

theorist, Alex Jones. We first reported this on the program yesterday. He is being removed from Instagram after having been kicked off of Facebook in


But not just him, we have Milo Yiannopoulos, also an extreme right-wing provocateur, and others.

Oliver Darcy joins me now from New York with more.

First of all, Oliver, how do they -- how do they identify specific individuals? What makes them more dangerous than others that they should

be deleted and kicked off the platform?

OLIVER DARCY, CNN SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER: Yes. Really strong action from Facebook we saw yesterday. And they're saying that they've taken a long

process to look at these individuals and weighed a number of factors before they identified them as violating against their dangerous policies.

One of the factors would be, have they identified with a hate group, like someone like Louis Farrakhan, who's a member of the Nation of Islam, the

leader of the Nation of Islam, which is a known hate group, according to SPLC.

Have they posted stuff on Facebook that violates Facebook's policies against hate speech? These are some of the factors that Facebook says have

weighed before it determined that these people are, "dangerous" and need to be removed from the platform.

I'll read you a statement from Facebook, actually. They did say, we've always banned individuals or organizations that promote or engage violence

and hate regardless of ideology. The process for evaluating potential violators is extensive and it is what led us to the decision to remove

these accounts today. Today being yesterday.

GORANI: You're saying, we've always. I mean, that's an interesting -- it's an interesting way to -- because, I mean, if they've always done it,

then why have these accounts lived on their platform for as long as they have?

DARCY: Right. It was not even a year ago where Facebook was tweeting at reporters defending their decision to allow Alex Jones, one of the right-

wing extremists banned, to have a page on their platform. It was not even a year ago that that was happening.

So when they say they've always banned these individuals, I think those words ring a little hallow for a lot of reporters who have bene covering

Facebook over the years. Not only do they allow these people to have pages on Facebook, but they really thrived on Facebook. Someone like Milo

Yiannopoulos was not going to be able to build a platform -- an empire, media empire on his own. He leveraged Facebook, he leveraged Instagram, to

do that.

And so for Facebook to come out and say that they've always done this, is a bit ridiculous. But that said, this is strong action Facebook is taking

and it'll be interesting to see how it continues.

GORANI: And they're accepting they have a responsibility to the public. Does this make them a publisher? There's so many questions here. But

it'll be for another time.

Oliver Darcy, thanks very much. We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.


[14:50:10] GORANI: The family of a Chinese student admitted to Stanford University is denying that they bribed her way into the elite school.

Chinese pharmaceutical billionaire, Zhao Tao, as seen here with Donald Trump in this photo. He says his daughter's education has no link to his

company. He wanted to make that clear.

His wife admits she gave $6.5 million to Rick Singer, the man at the center of the largest college admission scam ever prosecuted in the United States.

Brynn Gingras is following the case from New York. So the wife admits the $6.5 million payment. What does she say it was for?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Hala, you know, she basically says that she was like any other parent that could afford to give such a

donation to a prestigious university in the United States. She thought she was donating money through Rick Singer to Stanford University where her

daughter went to college and is no longer attending there.

So she essentially says she's a victim of Rick Singer. He, as you said, is the convicted mastermind behind this huge college admission scheme that has

now, obviously, gone global and has a global impact. But she says that Rick Singer approached her. She met him through a financial adviser in

L.A., and when they had discussions about his services, he said the money - - the purpose of it was for academic staff, for scholarships, athletic programs, helping those students who had the rights who will not be able to

afford to attend Stanford. So in her mind, she was paying that money.

Now, let's keep in mind that this family, the Zhao family, the daughter, the father, who you saw that picture with the president and the Mrs. Zhao,

who released a statement through her attorney, they haven't been charged in the case. Authorities say that they don't have enough evidence at this

point and it's unclear if there will be any charges against those families.

But the big picture here, though, is really what sort of defense we might be hearing from the parents who are charged in the case. Are more parents

going to say that they were duped by Singer as well? He told them a bunch of lies and that's the defense we may see if any of these cases go to


GORANI: All right. Brynn Gingras, thanks very much.

More to come, including sketching out what a rebuild -- rebuilt Notre Dame Cathedral could look like. Budding architects hope to meet the challenge

to come up with the best design to replace the spire. We'll be right back.


GORANI: When France rebuilds the fire-damaged Notre Dame Cathedral, it won't look quite the same as it used to. An international competition is

under way to submit designs for a new roof and spire. Architects are flocking to Paris to give it a go, including a group of American university


Ben Wedeman has our story.


BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pencil on paper, it's very old school, yet perhaps, it's the best way to capture

this scorched majesty of Paris' 800--year-old Notre Dame Cathedral.

French Prime Minister, Edouard Philippe, announced an international competition to redesign the roof in 300-foot spire the flames destroyed.

The task the government flush with around a billion dollars in donations hopes to finish in five years.

Architecture students from Notre Dame, the University in the U.S. state of Indiana, are here to draw and study this medieval marvel and planned to

join the competition.

[14:55:11] Texas native, Ethan Scott (ph), hasn't come up with a specific idea just yet, but he's thinking --

ETHAN SCOTT, ARCHITECTURE STUDENT, UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME: Gothic. It could be bigger, it could be gilded, it could be stone, it could be marble,

but I think something that respects what's still there.

WEDEMAN: A balance between old and the new is what's needed, says classmate Jessica Most (ph) from San Diego, California.

JESSICA MOST, ARCHITECTURE STUDENT, UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME: I think it's important to also stay relevant too. But what structurally was there as

well as keeping it modern.

WEDEMAN: Keeping it modern however has its limits. Already some designers have posted their ideas online, some are interesting.

Notre Dame Architecture student Mary Repsinski (ph), from Boston Massachusetts, puts it this way.


WEDEMAN: Paris-based heritage architect, Marie Anne Tek (ph), is confident sober head will prevail, in a masterpiece like Notre Dame, which took a

hundred years to be built won't be rebuilt in a rush.

"It's not a train station, it's not a museum," she tells me. "It's a special place and I believe we should provide this special place."

All the means necessary to express itself with genius and audacity. The outlines ingenious have long been there. It will just take a brilliant

mind to fill in what defy the risk.

Ben Wedeman, CNN, Paris.


GORANI: I think it should be something funky. I don't know.

And finally, the movie world is mourning a beloved actor whose face almost never appeared on film.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You made a fair move, screaming about (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't have it. It's not wise.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But, sir, nobody worries about upsetting a droid.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because the droid don't pull people's arms out of their sockets when they lose. Rookies are known to do that.


GORANI: Peter Mayhew, the actor who played Chewbacca in "Star Wars" has died. Mayhew stood more than 2.2 meters tall and drew praise for the way

he infused emotion into a character whose largely just fur and grunts.

He played Chewy for nearly 40 years, handing the suit over to a new actor only two years ago.

Now, tributes have been pouring in including Mark Hamill. Luke Skywalker himself who said, "Mayhew was a big man, with an even bigger heart who

never failed to make me smile."

Peter Mayhew was 74 years old. The family did not reveal the cause of death.

Thanks for watching tonight and stay with CNN. I'm Hala Gorani. If it's your weekend, have a great one. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.