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U.S. Warships Deployed to Iran in Response to 'Troubling' Threats; Stock Dives as Trump Threatens New Tariffs Against Chins; Maximum Security Owner May Challenge Kentucky Derby Ruling in Court; Trump: Mueller 'Should Not Testify'. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired May 06, 2019 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Do yourself a favor. Go wash the whole thing, because it really is moving.

[07:00:04] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: What a loss. I mean, it just reminded me again last night. It was so devastating when Chris Farley died, and then for Adam Sandler, you know, that was just a great choice that he made, because he knows that we all still feel that loss.

BERMAN: Thanks you to our international viewers for watching. For you, "CNN TALK" is next. For our U.S. viewers, NEW DAY continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: The U.S. deploying an aircraft carrier strike group and Air Force bombers to the Persian Gulf.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My first thought was, here we go again. This is the time of escalation at this point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Trump saying, flat-out, Mueller should not testify. He didn't express those concerns on Friday.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That's up to our attorney general.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The president is realizing it might not look so good for him, despite his claims to have been fully exonerated.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

CAMEROTA: Good morning and welcome to your NEW DAY. We have some major developments overnight to report to you.

President Trump dialing up the pressure on two fronts: deploying an aircraft carrier strike group and Air Force bombers to the Persian Gulf. Officials say this move is meant to deter any Iranian military action. National security adviser John Bolton says it's designed to send a, quote, "clear and unmistakable message" to Iran after the regime made what he calls "troubling threats" against U.S. forces in the Middle East.

To be clear, there is no indication that any action by Iran is imminent.

BERMAN: Also overnight, the president rocked the world markets, threatening a new, more severe round of tariffs on China if there is no breakthrough in trade talks, which were said to be going well.

Markets are falling this morning with the Dow down about 500 points in pre-market trading. "The Wall Street Journal" now reports that China is thinking of walking away from talks set for this week. We begin, though, with the escalating tensions between the United States and Iran.

CNN's Barbara Starr live at the Pentagon with the movement of major military assets -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.

An extraordinary overnight statement, late Sunday night, that President Trump, the White House is ordering a shift of forces towards the Middle East.

The Abraham Lincoln aircraft carrier strike group and a number of Air Force bombers now redirected towards the Middle East, because officials say they had intelligence that Iranian forces and Iranian proxies were possibly preparing for an attack on U.S. forces in the region.

The national security adviser, John Bolton, issuing a statement overnight, saying in part, "The U.S. is deploying to send a clear and unmistakable message to the Iranian regime that any attack on the United States' interests or those of our allies will be met with unrelenting force."

So the message from the United States, from the Pentagon, is very visible, very public, because it's a message of deterrence. It's saying to Iran, "We see you. We are assessing the intelligence, and the price you will pay will be too high. Don't even think about doing it."

So a message of deterrence now as tensions have been rising with Iran over its nuclear program, over President Trump declaring that he wants to stop their oil exports. A tense situation this morning, but as you say, no indication of imminent action -- John, Alisyn.

BERMAN: All right, Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, please keep watch for us from there. Appreciate it, Barbara.

Joining us now, retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, former Army commanding general for Europe and the 7th Army. He's also a CNN military analyst. And John Avlon, CNN senior political analyst.

And General, I want to start with you. Because there is what we can see, which is the movement of military assets. And then there's the subtext of what's going on behind the scenes and how we should read the fact of this message.

If I can start with the top line, though, when you're moving an aircraft carrier into the Persian Gulf, what does that tell you?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It tells you you've got concerns or intelligence in that respect. But the way it was portrayed, John, is very interesting, because the Lincoln, the one they're talking about, the Lincoln strike group has been in the Mediterranean for about a month.

In fact, the Navy has publicized the fact that they've been operating alongside the Stennis strike group. That's the first time in a very long time there have been two carrier strike groups in the Mediterranean.

I think the Lincoln has actually been in the Adriatic the last few days. But to say that it's now going to move into the central command area, the Middle East, is very fascinating. Because it would have to move through the Suez Canal in order to join the carrier that's already in the Arabian Sea, which is the Eisenhower.

So you have three -- three -- carrier strike groups in this area to take care of issues that might come up. And they're prepared to do that, wherever they set sail. It's concerning, because you're shifting one carrier strike group with all of its ships, not just the aircraft carrier, from one area of operations to another. And that sends a signal, to be sure.

CAMEROTA: So, John, the national security adviser, John Bolton, says this is in response, what the U.S. is doing is "in response to a number of troubling and escalatory indications and warnings." Do we know what Iran has been doing?

[07:05:10] JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: We don't. And that's what's so striking, is that this seems to be relatively recent intelligence. Mike Pompeo did say this is part of a larger issue with Iran. We know Pompeo and Bolton have been very hawkish with regards to Iran, but we don't know what the precipitating intelligence was to bring about this really significant shift of hardware. It's a significant escalation for information we don't know what precipitated it.

BERMAN: Well, the United States declared the Iranian Revolutionary Guard to be a terror group, and then the Iranians came back and said U.S. troops in the region are terrorists. But it's unclear whether that -- any of that is more than rhetoric and actually --

AVLON: Yes. And of course, that could increase pressure and make U.S. troops even more a target in the region. But we don't know that that was the event.

BERMAN: And general, to you. The fact that it was the White House national security adviser, John Bolton, that put out this memo last night, you make note of that. Why?

HERTLING: It's inappropriate. First of all, he is a national security adviser. He is nowhere in the chain of command for a movement of ships.

So this is an announcement that should be made by either the president or the secretary of defense, not the NSA.

John, this is very unusual. I've never heard of a national security adviser making comment on troop movements or deployments. But it goes in line with what we've seen with both Secretary Pompeo, the secretary of state, and the national security adviser talking about military actions. This is something that should be left to the secretary of defense. It isn't happening, and it's a little bit bizarre in my view.

CAMEROTA: That's a really interesting perspective, General. And so, what does -- I mean, since you're on the military end of it, what's their response when they hear something like this from the national security adviser?

HERTLING: Well, the military are certainly keeping track of all of this. And when you hear something that -- like this, you've probably already received orders to either, in the Navy's case, do something they call out chop from one area of operation to another.

But it seems a little bit bizarre, because as I said, again, and as you just said, the secretary of state and the national security adviser have been the two hawks regarding Iran in the last several months.

The comment about declaring the IRGC, the Republican Guard Corps, as a terrorist organization, that's a -- that's a big organization. That's not just a few men. That's the entire army, the special army and Navy of the Iranian Republic.

So all of these things are a little bit unusual, as you just said. There's probably additional intelligence. I haven't seen it, but it -- I wouldn't have seen it. It's probably top-secret stuff on things that Iran is doing.

But we also have to bring in the fact that Hamas, in the Gaza Strip, is supported by Iran. Those missiles that have been flying into Israel over the last couple of days have all come from Iran.

So these are signals, not only of things that might be occurring in the Arabian Gulf region, but also what Iran has been doing supporting Hamas and the Gaza against Israel the last few days. And I think it's the president's team sending a message across that front.

BERMAN: No question that Bolton and Pompeo are both Iran hawks, to be sure.

AVLON: Absolutely. I mean, this has been on the to-do list for Bolton for a long time, ratcheting up pressure on Iran. That doesn't mean that the president wants war with Iran, but they're all about increasing pressure on the Islamic Republic, because they're seen, and credibly so, as bad actors in the region.

The question will be, you know, where some of these things line up with their policy towards Russia, for example.

But I think the general's exactly right to point out, of course, the escalation in Israel, how that might affect. And generally, this is sort of part of a full-court press to try to contain Iran as much as possible.

CAMEROTA: OK, next topic, China. John, Dow futures, I think we have a live look at where they are right now. I think that they are down.

BERMAN: Four hundred and sixty-seven points.

CAMEROTA: That's a lot. So they -- I'm no Christine Romans, but that's a lot. And so, just this week, Chinese officials were coming here for these trade negotiations.

AVLON: Yes.

CAMEROTA: And so the president threatening to impose big severe tariffs. What's going on here?

AVLON: Ten to 25 percent. And what's striking is that on Friday, the president spoke to the press and said how well these negotiations were going.

What's unclear is what brought this change in strategy about. Is this impulse? Is this the president's negotiating impulse to just really ratchet up the pressure at a critical moment?

Now, of course, the markets are reacting this way, because the future of the talks is unclear. China saying, well, it's unclear whether we'll follow through. That said, strikingly, Senate -- Democratic leader Chuck Schumer actually praised the president, said that the way to deal with China is strength.

And so it's a really interesting question; it's a very delicate point. Remember, the president famously said trade wars are good and easy -- good and easy to win. This is a test of that, but the American economy is in a very strong position. China has been battered about a bit.

BERMAN: We'll see if China walks away from the talks that were scheduled for this week. Looking tough may be one thing, but there's going to be a whole lot of wealth lost over the next few hours, if futures hold.

All right. General, thank you very much for being with us. John Avlon, thanks to both of you.

[07:10:00] Now to the controversy at the Kentucky Derby. The horse that crossed the finish line first was disqualified. Now the owner of Maximum Security says he wants to appeal the ruling.

CNN's Martin Savidge is live in Louisville.

And Martin, I get the sense this isn't over yet.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, no. The finish line is a long way off when it comes to potential litigation here, John.

You know, it was an historic finish, there's no doubt to that, but it's not the kind of history that anybody wanted to see happen for the Kentucky Derby.

And you've got to feel for Gary West. That's the owner of Maximum Security. This is a man who's waited 40 years to get into the winner's circle, and he's out of it in about 20 minutes.

Let me take you back to Saturday, what happened. It was raining cats and dogs. It's the final turn, and 19 horses are running as they get ready to come into the home stretch.

And it appears, depending on the version you go by, that the lead horse here, Maximum Security, either jumps a puddle or is startled by the crowd, but moves, veers, comes out of its lane and, thereby, interferes with the other horses.

After the race is run, even though he came across the finish line first, there are objections, protests. The referees are called stewards, in this particular case, review the video, talk to the jockeys and then come out and say, "You know what? The lead horse is disqualified."

That means that Country House will go down as the winner here, with a great big asterisk in the history books here.

But there's a lot of money at stake here. The value of the horses goes up depending on if you win or not, and then on top of that, a purse of $1.8 million. So even though there doesn't appear to be an appeals process, under the horse racing rules of Kentucky, it's possible this could end up in a courtroom as some kind of lawsuit.

So yes, a long way from the legal finish line.

BERMAN: It may end up in a federal courtroom. Martin Savidge for us in Louisville.

Look, just based on what the people who watch horse racing every day, the stewards, you know, the betters who watch this, this was a clear rule and a clear infraction.

CAMEROTA: That's not how John Avlon feels about it.

BERMAN: Apparently, the words don't matter.

CAMEROTA: John -- John has a distinct --

AVLON: A strong semi-informed opinion. Look, this was an amazing race. He was ahead significantly. That rule is almost never invoked. Certainly not at the derby.

BERMAN: Because -- because the rule is not often broken like that.

CAMEROTA: You mean other horses drift like that? BERMAN: This horse drifted. It wasn't a persistent problem. He was

ahead by a length. This is -- Maximum Security was robbed by this decision. And we'll see. There's no appealing on this, but it -- this strikes a lot of folks as violating common sense, if not B.S.

CAMEROTA: I like the strong feelings.

BERMAN: Oh, yes. I just think that the rules are the rules. And if the people who watch horse racing every day, including the stewards, say that the rule is broken here, I don't think they have much of a choice.

CAMEROTA: Not -- that's not what John Avlon says.

BERMAN: No. Apparently, the rules are ridiculous!

CAMEROTA: Thank you.

All right. So the president reversing course and saying that Robert Mueller should not testify before Congress. What changed over the weekend? Is the president afraid of something? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:16:57] BERMAN: President Trump is reversing himself on Robert Mueller, now saying the special counsel should not testify before lawmakers on Friday -- testify before lawmakers. On Friday, the president said he would leave it up to his attorney general whether or not to make that decision.

Joining us now, Jeffrey Toobin, CNN chief legal analyst; Abby Phillip, CNN White House correspondent; and Joe Lockhart, former Clinton White House correspondent and CNN political analyst.

Let me walk you down memory lane on what the president has said in the past. This is what he said just on Friday about Robert Mueller testifying. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, should Mueller testify? Would you like to see him testify?

TRUMP: I don't know. That's up to our attorney general, who I think has done a fantastic job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Leave it up to the attorney general, William Barr, a walk further down memory lane to what William Barr has said about Robert Mueller testifying.

CAMEROTA: This is five days ago.

BERMAN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: So this is going to put more restrain on your memory.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about Bob Mueller? Should he be allowed to testify before the Senate?

WILLIAM BARR, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I have already said publicly, I have no objection.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Now the president says "no." Jeffrey Toobin, to me, it seems as if this puts a lot of pressure on William Barr.

We're going to learn a lot about Barr in the next 24 hours if he responds to this. He has said that he's OK with Mueller testifying in the past. Now the president says no. So is Barr the principled attorney general, or is he just carrying water for the president?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Well, that is the question. And we're going to need an answer very soon.

Another development over the weekend was David Cicilline, the member of the House Judiciary Committee, saying it looked like there was a tentative deal for Mueller to testify on May 15. Cicilline walked that back a little bit, but obviously, this is a very live issue about Mueller's testimony. The Judiciary Committee wants him sooner rather than later.

You know, I don't know what's going to happen. I mean, the president is the boss of the attorney general. He has now spoken out. I -- you know, we'll see. Ask Abby Phillips. Ask her.

CAMEROTA: But he's not the boss of Robert Mueller.

PHILLIP: That's exactly the question that I have.

TOOBIN: Right.

PHILLIP: Is that it's not clear to me that President Trump has the ability to stop Robert Mueller from testifying. I mean, under -- on what grounds would he or even Bill Barr have to stop this testimony from happening? So --

CAMEROTA: Because he's a private citizen. Because Robert Mueller, if you --

TOOBIN: Not yet. Not yet.

CAMEROTA: But today, he could say, "I quit the Department of Justice, thanks very much," and he'd be a private citizen.

TOOBIN: Well, that's correct. That is correct that, once Mueller leaves, he's in a different position. But it is quite clear that the Mueller office is still open, and Mueller is an employee of the Department of Justice, for the time being. PHILLIP: So it could be, I mean, I think, to your question, it could

be that this is a question of how much does Bill Barr take what President Trump is signaling to him publicly and internalize that and act on it?

I think, given that he has already made a public statement on this, he's kind of boxed in on the issue, unless they can find some legal grounds to hold Mueller back. And it's not clear to me what exactly that is.

I think President Trump is just venting about this issue. He wants to stop Congress one way or another, and that's what the tweet over the weekend was about.

CAMEROTA: I'm not sure Bill Barr feels a lot of compunction about things that he has said in the past and being consistent with them currently.

[07:20:06] Do you think that, because he's said he has no problem with Robert Mueller testifying, he'll feel that way this week?

JOE LOCKHART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Listen, I think if he found a way to spin the Mueller report as exoneration of the president, he can find a way to spin and turn this around.

This really, though, is the problem, the president of having two divergent strategies. Of saying, "I've been totally exonerated, but the person who totally exonerated shouldn't talk about it publicly." That is -- it's -- it undermines his No. 1 strategy.

If he felt totally exonerated, he should want the special counsel to be up on Capitol Hill, talking about that total exoneration. We're now, you know -- that was what the problem with the strategy, which is, he wasn't exonerated. So he's now going to try to keep him from doing it or talk about keeping him. All it will do, though, is raise the drama of when Mueller eventually testifies and brings this report to life.

TOOBIN: Have you watched CNN? Do you think we will not do enough drama if Robert Mueller testifies? How many banners, countdowns -- there'll be lots of drama.

LOCKHART: But the point is, when you -- you will start that day by saying, "This is the testimony the president doesn't want you to hear." It's -- it's --

CAMEROTA: Oh, I'm going to right that down, that's good.

LOCKHART: Yes.

BERMAN: Just to be clear, your -- YOUR take on this -- and I want to ask Jeffrey about it, but I want to get your take to make sure I understand -- is that the president is just sticking his fingers in the eyes of Congress. That's his goal here on the Mueller testimony, more than specifically having specific concerns about it. PHILLIP: The reason I say that is because, you know, when you talk to

people around the president, they believe that Trump, he just simply views all of this as people out to get him. He's -- and he's acting out a lot of times, not based on specific concerns or specific information, but just because he wants to stop anything that he views as a potential threat to him.

It's the kind of behavior that, over the last two years, a lot of people, you know, why is he lying about all of these things if he has nothing to hide?

Well, you know, I think no one really came up with an answer to that, because sometimes the president will act in a way that makes it seem like he has something to hide, even if there isn't anything to hide.

And I also think that Trump really just -- you know, he spent some time over the weekend thinking about this, and he wants to make it clear to his supporters that he's not going to just stand idly by and let Congress do whatever they want to do. That's important signaling to his base.

BERMAN: But Jeffrey, couldn't there be questions that Robert Mueller would be asked in Congress that would be really problematic for the president, maybe even William Barr?

TOOBIN: Absolutely. And that's why the Democrats want him there. And you know, to -- to talk about just how incriminating this report is and, you know, the idea that the attorney general has been putting out there, that Mueller simply just couldn't make up his mind about obstruction of justice, he sort of shrugged his shoulders, as opposed to, if you read the report, a very conscious decision not to reach a resolution out of fairness, out of a sense of fairness to Donald Trump, who couldn't defend himself from an actual accusation.

CAMEROTA: Is Vladimir Putin pinching himself at how well this has all worked? The idea that he got a congratulatory, or at least a friendly phone call from the victim, OK? So United States is the victim of this campaign from Vladimir Putin to interfere in our election. The fact that the victim called Vladimir Putin to have some sort of congenial, congratulatory conversation about it being all over, what does that make Vladimir Putin think?

LOCKHART: It makes -- it puts him in the hall of fame of black ops operations. This could not have worked out better.

He wanted to disrupt the U.S. election. He disrupted it. He helped get elected the person he wanted. And that person has pursued his interests, because it aligned -- his personal interests aligns more with Vladimir Putin than with our national interests. And that's what -- that's what makes all of this matter.

That's what makes CNN, you know, making this dramatic. That's why. Because the stakes are so -- the stakes are so high. So he's the happiest person in all of this.

And just -- to underline Jeffrey's point, just the fact that Bob Mueller will speak and talk, it's -- on paper, it's dry. Like a poll came out that said 3 percent of Americans have read the report.

Bob Mueller methodically going through ten examples of obstruction of justice, methodically going through, while there wasn't a crime committed, there were certainly elements of interference and improper cooperation with Russians during the campaign. That brings this to life. That's -- I think this is more than Trump venting. I think Trump is scared to death of this.

TOOBIN: It's why, also, the possible testimony of Don McGahn, the former White House counsel, is so important. It's one thing to read in a 400-page report that Don McGahn was told to fire Robert Mueller. It would be a very different thing to have him testify on camera, describing the phone calls from the president.

[07:25:15] BERMAN: Jeffrey, very quickly, Michael Cohen heads to prison today.

TOOBIN: He does.

BERMAN: You've written the definitive article about Michael Cohen heading to prison.

TOOBIN: I'm kind of the Boswell of Michael Cohen. Yes.

BERMAN: Mark the moment in history. What does this mean today?

TOOBIN: Well, the remarkable thing about Michael Cohen is that, if you look at his crimes -- and they are real crimes -- all of them, with one exception, were for the benefit of Donald Trump. He didn't get anything out of the illegal campaign contributions, out of his false testimony to Congress, his bank fraud to get money to pay off Stormy Daniels. His tax fraud is a separate issue.

But the idea that Michael Cohen is going to prison for three years when Donald Trump was president of the United States, no one else has been prosecuted for that stuff, you can see why he's a pissed off dude.

CAMEROTA: On that note, thank you all very much for the analysis.

So there is a new debate beginning on the 2020 campaign trail. How important is electability and likability, by the way? That's another debate happening. And are these the only factors the Democrats should be considering? We discuss all of it, next.

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