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A Stunning Truth About President Trump's True Wealth And Taxes; President Trump Avoided Paying Taxes For Eight Years; "New York Times" Reporting Donald Trump's Financial Losses During The '80s And '90s; STEM School Highlands Ranch Shooting; Gov. Jared Polis (D-CO) Is Interviewed About The Shooting Over In STEM School In Colorado. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired May 7, 2019 - 22:00   ET


[22:00:00] DON LEMON, CNN HOST: You just told a big old, so he just dropped the truth bomb.


LEMON: Truth bomb. And he's not going to like the Jeff part even though we know it's true Jeff made him. Jeff made him and helped him and now he hates Jeff. And so, he should be --


CUOMO: I don't know that the president hates anybody.

LEMON: Really? For real, for real? He should be in a debt -- he owes a debt of gratitude to him.

CUOMO: I think there is a case that that could be made.

LEMON: I agree.

CUOMO: But I don't know if there is real animus.


CUOMO: You never know what goes through the heart of a man.

LEMON: No. The Art of the Deal.

CUOMO: Is that your signed copy?

LEMON: It is signed but it's not to me. It's to a member of my staff. I think you bring up very interesting points. I think this shows what -- how the wool was pulled over America's eyes.

And that is a -- and listen, that's not the reason that Democrats want his taxes, and that's not the reason that Americans should want the taxes. You should be smart enough to figure out on your own if someone is telling you the truth by doing research.

The reason that his tax returns should be shown is, one, there's a precedent. If you're running for president you should do it. CUOMO: Sure.

LEMON: You should be transparent to the American people. The American people have the right to know if you're beholden to anyone who you owe money to, who has loaned you money.

You work for the American people and you should be able to show them that you want a president, just like you want to know what his health is, you don't want to bank on someone who is not going to be healthy if they get into office.

And you want to know their financials because you want to know how they do business and if they're beholden. I think that's pretty simple stuff right there.

CUOMO: I agree.

LEMON: This shows that it's not true.

CUOMO: I agree. Now, the Democrats have a little bit of a challenge, because I think that --

LEMON: Big challenge.

CUOMO: -- the heavy part of why they want it is to look for the conflicts.


CUOMO: I'll give them the benefit of, I can't prove they want to get in got you mode, but they want to see the conflicts. You heard Lloyd Doggett there tonight, the congressman from Texas saying, I want to know why Deutsche Bank loaned him so much money, I want to know whether they were his biggest lender when he was losing so much money for everybody else.

They've had a lot of Russian money, he says, flow through their accounts. Fine, then say that.

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: Don't say it's about whether or not the IRS audited him. Now that just fits it into that law more neatly. But I think that they have a little bit of persuading there to do themselves.

LEMON: Well, they've got their work cut out for them, and listen, this White House keeps saying no, no, no.

CUOMO: It helps them.

LEMON: Yes. Do you think it helps?

CUOMO: It helps the Democrats.

LEMON: It helps the Democrats.

CUOMO: Because look, they don't have to impeach the president to open impeachment proceedings.

LEMON: Exactly.

CUOMO: It will give them reach they don't have right now, especially if they have to go to court for subpoenas. And I think Pelosi is on to something. She's smart. You know, you can like what she's done, you cannot like what she's done, that's fine, that's politics.


LEMON: In her caucus you'll listen to her.

CUOMO: But she's seen it all.


CUOMO: And when she says, you now, he's goading us but they should be wise, why would he be goading you into doing that? You know, look at the polls of people who feel this is gone too far already.


LEMON: He knows it will help him. Many thinks that some of the -- well, many people -- not everyone, they think that -- that's his words. Many people say that they've gone too far with investigating, but then, listen, there is the Constitution. They do have oversight power, and if they allow this president to get away with it, aren't they doing the same things that the Republicans do? They allow him to get with anyway. So, listen.

CUOMO: Perception is reality, so it's going to be who makes a better case of the people that what they did was righteous.

LEMON: It's a rock and a hard place. I have so much I want to tell the viewers. They learn so much from you and now I'm ready for them to learn from me. So, thank you, sir. I shall see you tomorrow.

CUOMO: Time for a come up for the viewers.

LEMON: Here you go. That's right. So, everyone, have a seat. Chris is gone. Here it is.

This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

Are you listening? The President of the United States is a fraud and a con man, and the fraud and the con is on us, the American people. Now we know why the president wants to keep his tax returns hidden and it's not because he's under audit. Audit, Schmaudit.

It turns out Donald Trump is our con man in chief, and his biggest con was pulling the wool right over your eyes, convincing voters that he would be the best dealmaker ever in the White House.

So, here's our breaking news right now, and it is stunning, except for maybe the people who know him. The man who ran for president on his reputation as a billionaire business genius was a really, really, really lousy businessman, literally the worst businessman in the country.

I'm speaking the truth here. Read "The New York Times" report. In 1990 and 1991, Donald Trump lost more than a quarter of a billion dollars each year, a quarter of a billion a year. That is more than double the losses of the nearest taxpayers in IRS records.

[22:05:05] "The New York Times" analyzed previously unreleased figures from Trump's federal income taxes, his returns from 1985 to 1984.

And here's what they found. That during those years, Trump lost a staggering $1.17 billion, 1.17 billion on his casinos, on his hotels, retail spaces and apartment buildings, casinos, casinos losing money?

You know what they say about gambling, casino gambling, right, the house always wins? Well, not always. Not if it's a Trump casino. Come on. Who loses money at a casino except for the person gambling? Not the owner.

Here's another way of looking at it. Donald Trump received about $4.13 million in today's dollars from his father's real estate empire, 413, $413 million in todays' dollars from his father's empire. And in just 10 years, just 10 years, he managed to lose nearly three times that amount.

Great businessman. But it's not just all about the money he lost, though that's more than most of us could even imagine. It is this. Trump lost so much money. He lost so much money that he was able to avoid paying income taxes for eight of those 10 years.

Can you imagine not paying your income taxes for eight years? That would be awesome, right? If you're a bad businessman, I guess you can do it.

So, President Trump, who claims to have pushed through the biggest tax cut in history, which by the way is not true, OK, he didn't pay a penny in income taxes for eight years.

And the really incredible bit of irony, do you know what else happened during those years? Specifically, 1987, it was right after this. It was right when the "Art of the Deal" came out, this book that Donald Trump claimed to have written even though we know that he didn't actually write this. Journalist Tony Schwartz did, he's told us before, the book that was supposed to unveil all the secrets to his business success, "Art of the Deal," Tony Schwartz. Which, as it turns out, fantasy, all of it.

I want you to listen to this. This is from page 58. If you have it, read along. And I quote here. It says "the final key to the way I promote is bravado. I play to people's fantasies. People may not always think big themselves but they can still get very excited by those who do. That's why a little hyperbole never hurts. People want to believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular."

Did you hear that? They want to believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular. Biggest tax cut. I hired the best people. I have the greatest success. Where have you heard that?

And he says, I call it truthful hyperbole. It's an innocent form of exaggeration and a very effective form of promotion, and you bought it. Congratulations. He may call the truth hyperbole; I call it a con and a fraud with the evidence to back it up.

And speaking of con, there is this, page 60. Follow along in your notebooks here, in the book. "You can't con people, at least not for long. You can create excitement, you can do wonderful promotion and get all kinds of press, and you can throw in a little hyperbole. But if you don't deliver the goods, people will eventually catch on."

Is that a self-fulfilling prophecy? Yes. People will eventually catch on like right now.

So, let's go to page 46. OK? And here's a quote. "I like thinking big. I always have. To me, it's very simple. If you're going to be thinking, anyway, you might as well think big.

[22:10:00] Because I'm good enough, smart enough and dog gone, people love me."

Think big. Big like $1.17 billion in business losses. That's kind of big, don't you think? Huge.

Donald Trump has just been conning us all along, people. Own it. Maybe it doesn't matter to you whether the United States is conning you. He's spinning. He's been spinning the fantasy that he was a model of success.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm Donald Trump. I wrote the "Art of the Deal."

I didn't need to do this. You know, I built a great company, one of the great companies. I enjoyed any life.

I could have enjoyed the fruits and benefit of years of successful business deals and businesses.

I was a businessman, very successful.

I've always loved business. I've always been very successful at making money. I would buy things that would fail and I would turn them around and make them successful. And I've been good at it. That takes a certain ability.

I say not in a braggadocios way, I've made billions and billions of dollars.

I'm really rich.

I'm very rich. I built an unbelievable company. The money you're talking about is a lot. But it's peanuts for me.

I understand the tax laws better than almost anyone.

They thought I wouldn't file because they said, well, he's probably not as rich as people think.

I was very successful. Thank you.

I built an extraordinary business on relationships and deals that benefit all parties involved, always.

Believe me, folks, I know what I'm doing. I know what I'm doing.


LEMON: Only I can fix this. And his TV career was all part of the fantasy, the fantasy that he had all the money and the power.

The fantasy that all he had to do to make a problem go away was say this.


TRUMP: You're fired.


LEMON: This is a problem that Donald Trump cannot just fire away. The Times reports the information contained in his returns came from someone who had legal access to them.

So that means somebody out there knows a whole lot about the president's taxes, and now they're talking. He's got to be rocking the West Wing right now or perhaps his resident. Just imagine what else is out there. Imagine what is in the returns he's still fighting to keep under wraps. Imagine what the con man in chief is thinking right now.

More to come, a lot more, on Donald Trump's tax news. From the airline he bought in 1989 that never once made a profit to the casino he opened a year later that was drowning in debt.


LEMON: So, here's our breaking news tonight. It's from "The New York Times". They've obtained Donald Trump's tax information from the years 1985 to 1994, showing that over the course of those years, Trump's business has lost more than $1 billion.

The Times also reporting that in those years Trump appears to have lost more money than nearly any other individual American taxpayer.

Let's bring in now Laura Coates, Kirsten Powers, Michael D'Antonio, the author of "The Truth About Trump."

Thank you so much. You know a lot about so I'm going to start with you. So, he ran on being the best deal maker, the best businessman ever. A con, all of it? MICHAEL D'ANTONIO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: All of it was a con. This person

is a walking fraud. There's never been an important issue about which he's been truthful.

If you think back on how he's managed his personal life, how he's been a father, how he's been a businessman, how he's been a publicist for himself. He lied about who wanted to date him, he lied about how attractive he was, he lies about how much he weighs and about how tall he is, and his hair is one great big lie. This man has always been a fraud.

LEMON: So why do people fall for it?

D'ANTONIO: Well, I think people want to believe in these tall tales, they want the P.T. Barnum figure to be -- they want to be happy when they see him and that he says I'm the most important real estate man in New York. And then owning the fact that he's not means that you gave your vote erroneously.

LEMON: Right.

D'ANTONIO: So, this is your mistake. So, there been 16 million Americans who made a profound mistake on election.

LEMON: In television even if written and scripted is a very powerful persuader. You're fired. I'm the boss. I'm the best. Right? You can show me, look, I'm not a billionaire, and you can put me in a --


D'ANTONIO: Well, neither is he.

LEMON: -- showing in a Limo and you know, driving down Fifth Avenue and people would go, my gosh, that guy, right?


LEMON: Television is a very powerful persuader. Let's put this graphic up, a decade in the red. Look at this. This Times story shows 100 percent disproves that, right? Yes, do you agree?

POWERS: Well, yes. Now, of course, the White House -- of the, you know, the White House is saying that this isn't true, but if this isn't true, they want to set the record straight.

LEMON: As if --

POWERS: There is a very easy way to do it.

LEMON: There is a very easy way to do it.

POWERS: Like you can release the tax returns and let everybody see it. And the fact that you won't is what makes everybody so suspicious, and it's just interesting that in the story they talk about how when he wrote that book that you have in your hands, you know, he was hemorrhaging money. And yet, here he is telling people how to -- you know, the "Art of the

Deal," how to make deals, how to get rich, how to be like him, when he knew full well that he was losing money.

LEMON: Yes. Well, a lot of people. You know, Tony Schwartz wrote it. A lot of people have ghost writers. But he's like, you know, he claims to have written it --


LEMON: -- and Tony is like, not so much. Right?

D'ANTONIO: Another lie.


[22:20:00] D'ANTONIO: I mean, this is another gigantic lie. I'm a best-selling author. Well, no, you're not. You're the guy who has your name on the cover of a best-selling book.

LEMON: Yes. Laura, he likes to say that he can't show his tax returns because he's under audit. Roll this and we'll talk.


TRUMP: As far as my tax returns, you don't learn that much from tax returns, that I can tell you.

I will release my tax returns against my lawyer's wishes, when she releases her 33,000 e-mails that have been deleted.

When the audit is complete, I'll release my returns, I have no problem with it.

I'm releasing when we're finished with the audit. It depends on the audit, not a big deal.

When you're under audit, and I'm on a continuous audit because there are so many companies and it is a very big company, far bigger than you would even understand.

I've been under audit for many years because the numbers are big and I guess when you have a name, you're audited.

I'm under audit. When you're under audit you don't it. But I'm under audit.


LEMON: So, look, he talks about being under audit which, by the way, doesn't preclude anyone from releasing their tax returns. Remember during the presidential campaign, the IRS said that?

But now we know the real reason, Laura, why he doesn't want to show the American people his tax returns. LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: We do. We also now know a real

reason why the Ways and Means Committee would want to be able to exercise some oversight into how he -- if he is being audited, how that's being conducted when it comes to the President of the United States.

One of the statements he made there, you can't learn anything from a tax return, well, that's very far from the truth, isn't it, Don, if the idea of being able to figure out not only a whether somebody has the word used earlier beholden to some other entity or a nation or anything else also have the money is coming.

It also points out in many ways, particularly when it comes from Congress who has a legislative oversight function, to suggest, listen, there are obviously tax loopholes that probably shocked the American people to know that somebody who professes to live in the lap of luxury is able to pay no income taxes for eight out of 10 years?

Somebody who has said publicly on the campaign stamp and thereafter that he knows the tax code better than anybody else, certainly can navigate it better than anybody else and avoid paying those taxes? That's also part of the oversight function.

And part of what the American people would need to know to be able to fully evaluate the claims he's made and how the IRS is treating somebody who leaves the executive branch.

LEMON: But I think Kirsten brings up a very good point. And you are saying that if he -- the White House is saying that this isn't accurate, right, of course, that's their prerogative, but there is a good way to show its inaccuracy is to release the tax returns. Or -- OK, maybe if you want to bargain.

You can get the IRS to say whether you're under audit or not. I'm just saying.

Listen, we know that you're very busy at home and you don't get a chance to read -- hey, look, I'm just being me. It's the truth. The truth is the truth all day long. It will be the truth tomorrow and the next day and yesterday.

So, we know that don't get a chance to read, you know, maybe not a lot because you're busy. You're busy. We read the full report and it goes into immense detail about the huge purchases and bigger losses, and you definitely want to hear it, right after this.


LEMON: So, we're back now with Laura Coates, Kirsten Powers, Michael D'Antonio.

OK. So, let's go over this, everyone. So, Michael, I'll throw it to you and then everyone can weigh in.

The Times -- here we go. It said had immense detail about the huge purchases and bigger losses. Here's one example. Nineteen eighty-nine, he bought Eastern Airlines for $385 million. It never made a profit. Trump's business losses that year hit $189.7 million.

And just to give you here's another example here. Trump Taj Mahal casino opened in 1990. It was saddled with $800 million in debt. As a result, in 1990 and 1991 he has combined losses of $520 million and that's only a span of a couple of years. It's stunning. And those -- weren't this supposed to be the golden years?

D'ANTONIO: Well, supposedly. You know, he told me that he invested too big to fail. And I went back and check the records and he sort of did. So, this is the concept of you owe so much money that the banks keep reissuing your loans and changing the terms, and they keep you on running the asset because they can't walk away from it.

And I think this is something that Donald Trump the businessman understood, was that he didn't know how to run anything, but he sure knew how to borrow and get leverage and then hold the bank hostage. This is what he does. So, he's always playing a game of chicken with whomever he's in business with.

LEMON: Well, the big question is, why didn't his -- because most of us who, if we had done anything near that, and not with the millions of dollars, because you know, obviously most people don't have that much money, we would be out of house and home and probably cars and we have to --


LEMON: -- you know, declare bankruptcy and wouldn't be able to get loans and on, on and on. But that didn't happen to him because everybody else was leveraging him and they --


D'ANTONIO: They needed him to stay.

LEMON: They needed him to stay in business in order to pay back.


LEMON: How does this play, eight to 10 years not -- you now, eight years without paying taxes, and you know, he avoided income taxes in a 10-year period. Eight years he didn't play. How does this play with the voters?

POWERS: In a normal world, this would be a problem. But in today's world, I think it would be the type of thing that Democrats care about and Republican voters don't care about, and maybe a few, you know, independent voters split the difference.

LEMON: So, what if Barack Obama didn't pay his taxes?

POWERS: They would be impeaching him or something. You know what I mean, they would be -- it would be absolutely unacceptable. Now, I think what -- I'm going to -- I think what Republicans who want to defend this would probably say is it was legal, right? That seems to always be the defense these days. This doesn't matter if how, you know, what it looks like or if it's ethical. And I'm not --


LEMON: Or if he's telling the truth.

[22:30:01] POWERS: Yes. I'm not just talking across --


LEMON: No, but you're right.

POWERS: I'm saying about across the board, it always just comes back to, well, it was legal so, therefore, it's fine.

LEMON: There's nothing -- it doesn't say that anything is illegal, but it does -- and we've talked about this before. If he used false information for creditors that they thought his net worth was more. He had more assets. If he used that false information, then that potentially could be illegal.

POWERS: Yeah. And if he's underreporting his earnings to the IRS, that would be illegal. But I don't know that him having massive losses, and I don't know enough about this. I guess we could ask a lawyer.

LEMON: We will ask a lawyer. But it does negate the whole, you know, I am the best businessman. Laura, I do want you to weigh in on this. But I just want to play this, because I think we also got this clue from Michael Cohen who went to jail earlier this week, yesterday, as a matter of fact, during his Congressional testimony. Watch this.


REP. JIMMY GOMEZ (D), CALIFORNIA: Can you give us any insight into what the real reason is that the president has refused to release his tax returns?

MICHAEL COHEN, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S FORMER ATTORNEY: Statements that he had said to me is that what he didn't want was to have an entire group of think tanks that are tax experts, run through his tax return, and start ripping it to pieces, and then he'll end up in an audit. And he'll ultimately have taxable consequences, penalties, and so on.

GOMEZ: So that's an interesting point that basically said he didn't want to release his tax returns because he might end up in an audit. So could you presume from that statement that he wasn't under audit?

COHEN: I presume that is not under audit.


LEMON: Interesting. OK, so listen, Laura. So it was never about the audit. And the point that Michael Cohen was making about, you know, fearing tax experts picking it apart, is that that is key, because we do see red flags there. There is a mysterious -- in this report, $52 million in income back in 1989. We've been talking about the legality of this, so go on.

COATES: Well, it's important also because think about it. You have somebody who just last week or two weeks ago said that members of Congress were not smart enough to look through his taxes. And it turns out perhaps he feared perhaps the opposite, that they would be actually too smart to pick out the red flags and identify issues that may say, huh, what is that source of income?

Where does it come from? The natural questions that you would ask if you saw unidentifiable income. And it goes right back again to the legislative function of why they're asking for this information. Remember, they're asking for the information because they have an oversight issue. They have to figure out, as you were talking about with Kirsten earlier, the notion of what may not be illegal but what we believe is wrong and should not happen.

Well, part of Congress' role in oversight and in creating laws is to close the gap between that which is legal and that which we do not want to be legal, because we do not want loopholes to give one set of rules to some people and some to the others.

It also raises the question, of course, remember, the president and his adult children are currently fighting places like Deutsche Bank, being able to hand over information as to why, unlike the common person, who God forbid may have a six in their credit score, can't get a loan, can't add upward mobility for any reason, but why somebody could have losses that are exponentially like this and still be able to go from one department to the next.

You have to wonder about the links for all these things. And it comes down to, Don, when someone continuously tells you don't look over there, and it's the only place you want to look.

LEMON: Hey, Laura, I got to ask you real quick. And I've got to get to the break, though. So the Times reports -- and I was looking as you were talking -- the information contained in the returns came from someone who has legal access to them. Who would have legal access? Who might that be?

COATES: Well, somebody perhaps -- I'm trying to actually remember. These are tax summaries of sorts. They're not the actual tax returns. You can actually get them as a common person, to go to the IRS and get the tax transcripts to see that it includes adjusted growth income, I think, is one of them. You know it's a question of who would have it. But they're trying to ward off what, of course, Bill Barr and others have already said about there being multiple investigations into leaks.

So if somebody had information, maybe it's a regular person who has access to the IRS transcript data, also from previous reporting. I know they were able to get Fred Trump's information from previous reporting stories. It sounds like perhaps it was for a request. It's up in the air. I don't know what that is. But I need to find out how they were able to get what people Representative Neal had been trying to get but was stonewalled for quite some time.

LEMON: I mean I don't know the answer to this. Could it be Michael Cohen? Could it be an ex-wife?

COATES: I just don't know.

D'ANTONIO: There are lots of people with motivation to do such a thing.

LEMON: Thank you. Thank you, all.

COATES: It wasn't Trump. We know that.

[22:34:55] LEMON: It could have been. Maybe he's avoiding a more explosive tax coming out from 94 on, and he's just getting us primed for it. You never know. You never know. If all this information about the president's taxes had been out in 2016, would he have been elected? Would you have voted for him? I'm going to ask someone who ran against him. There he is, Governor John Kasich, next.


LEMON: So here's our breaking news tonight. "The New York Times" reporting that Donald Trump's businesses lost more than $1 billion in the 10 years, from 1985 to 1994. The Times citing information from tax documents it obtained.

Meanwhile, top Republicans in Congress toe in (ph) the Trump administration line on the Mueller investigation and its report. Senate Majority Leader, Mitch McConnell, claiming its over, case closed. We got a whole lot to discuss.

[22:39:53} John Kasich, the former Republican Governor of Ohio. Man, do we ever all night? There's a lot here. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. People love our conversations so let's have another one. So you ran against Trump in 2016.

Do you think it would have made a difference if the public had known the truth about his business record, even though he was saying otherwise, and that he had more business losses at one point than any other American taxpayer?

JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Don, it might have put him on the defensive. And it might have blown this narrative that he could fix everything. But if you really want to know what it was that helped him, it was the fact that cable television put his little town hall meetings from the beginning to the end of those town halls, and gave him maybe 2 billion, at least $1 billion worth of free publicity.

You know, I would have had to climb to the top of a flagpole, you know, and tried to sit up there to get any attention. Trump would just, you know, clear his throat and step up to the microphone. And there he is live on cable television. And everybody took it. And I remember what that one guy said from CBS. He may not be good for our country, but he's sure been good for our bottom line. So I mean, look, for money, money, money, you know so --

LEMON: I will give you what you said. I think there were other factors. But I think you're right on. And I think you won't see that this time from most of the cable networks going on and on and on without fact checking, because the American people did fall for a lot of that. Listen, vote for who you want, but to have someone come on and just spew misconceptions and lies and hyperbole, that is not good for an informed electorate.

KASICH: Well, the rallies were unbelievable, Don. Think about this. He was out there yelling out there. Beat that guy up. Could you imagine that? The guy's running for president, and he's yelling at somebody to beat somebody up at a rally.

LEMON: I can't only imagine it, I witnessed it. We all din. All right, so listen. We got a lot to talk about. Let's move on.


KASICH: If you keep doing this show the way you're doing -- if you keep doing this show, he's going to ask you for a loan. I think you can make enough money. You could give him a loan. Don't bail him out here.

LEMON: OK, OK. So listen. I want to move on, because there are lots to talk about. The majority leader, Mitch McConnell, took to the Senate floor and said that the case was closed. And that's a quote, case closed. The Mueller report is done. No mention of any of the damning information that involved the president and his campaign. Do Republicans care about Russia's interference now?

KASICH: Hey, I got to tell you, Don. Maybe you hit on a topic that's really critical. With everything that's going on around that, what are they doing in Washington and in Congress to try to stop this from being repeated in the 2020 election? Where is the urgency? And part of the Mueller report, from my understanding, is that it outlines exactly many of the ways in which the Russians got involved. Think about this.

The Russians, you know, when I was a kid, we used to hide under the desk thinking that we were going to have a nuclear war because of what was happening in Cuba. I mean, the Russians, OK? They are interfering in our election. There is no doubt about that they tried to manipulate us, and nobody is doing anything about it. I don't understand that.

It doesn't make any sense to me. Furthermore, Congress also has a right to review what the Mueller report did. And frankly, I hope Mueller testifies.

LEMON: Well, I want to make my point. But let me just say this. McConnell never even mentioned obstruction of justice after more than 700 prosecutors signed onto that letter yesterday. Anyone other than the president would have been indicted. Why no mention of obstruction?

KASICH: I can't answer that. And the fact is that that's why the Congress has a right to review. But I also have to say, Don that the Democrats have to be about this. I had a conversation with one of the leading Democrats about a year or so ago. Maybe it was a little longer than that. And I said, look, you are in an important position. You're going to have a lot of important information.

Be an American first. Don't be a partisan. And what the Democrats have to be concerned about is that fine line they have to walk, where they are not just being blatantly using this for political gain, as opposed to a legitimate review of what is in that report.

LEMON: Yeah. Hey, I've got to run. But I understand you wanted to correct me, because you said I said on my show I don't know if it was last week that Republicans weren't doing anything or not saying anything about someone who is just going against the rule of law. And you said no, not true, Don Lemon, that what?

KASICH: No, no. I said that you were saying that all the Republicans caved and toadied up to Trump, all of them. I never did. I didn't go to the convention. I didn't vote for him. I didn't support him. Why? Because I didn't really feel as though we were going to have somebody who was going to bring this country together. So I've taken a lot of heat.

The other day I was on an airplane, a lady leans across and says to me, you know, I've been your constituent. Why didn't you go to the convention? I was -- I really wanted to say to her, which convention are you talking about?

[22:45:04] But I mean this is what I hear sometimes. It's OK. It doesn't bother me. But I want people to know, not that I'm the greatest, but there were principles I stood on. And a lot of people think because I was mad or I got ripped off. No, I didn't.


LEMON: I've got to run. History will show you well for that.


LEMON: Thank you. I'll see you soon.

KASICH: Thanks.

LEMON: All right. We'll be right back.


LEMON: A deadly school shooting, a Denver suburb. An 18-year-old student was killed, 8 others were injured at the STEM School Highlands Ranch. The school is located less than eight miles from Columbine High. It was one of the schools closed last month on the 20th anniversary of the Columbine massacre amid security concerns. Police say two suspects are in custody.

[22:50:07] Let's bring in CNN's Nick Watt now with the very latest. Nick, good evening to you. You have been following this all day. What happened?

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, a regular Tuesday lunchtime at a school in Colorado, and two young men got beat onto that campus according to the sheriff and shot in two different locations, shot eight of their fellow students. Now, we are told that there is a sheriff's deputy, a substation just a block away from the school. So deputies were on the scene within a couple of minutes.

As they walked onto the campus, they ran onto the campus. They heard more shots ring out. And we were told by an undersheriff earlier that when those deputies got onto the school property, they saw these two suspects engaged in some kind of struggle with members of the school, unclear whether they were staff or students, whatever. We're still waiting to hear on that.

Those two suspects were then taken into custody. One of their homes is right now being searched by authorities. And you mentioned Columbine, only seven or eight miles away from this school. Now, the sheriff said that today the quick action of those deputies really helped. And that is partly because everything changed after Columbine.

It used to be the authorities stood back and set up a perimeter. Now, they go in. And the sheriff today saying that quick action, he believes, saved lives, Don.

LEMON: Just an awful situation. Nick Watt, thank you for your report. I want to bring now Colorado Governor Jared Polis. He joins us on the phone. Governor, thank you so much. So sorry for what happened, but we appreciate you joining us here on CNN and explaining to --


GOV. JARED POLIS (D), COLORADO: Well, you know, Don, I wish I was on under different circumstances. I know that, you know, America mourns for the victim's families and certainly can Colorado does. And, you know, it's what a tragedy for everybody that it impacted.

LEMON: Yeah, terrible. Do you have any new information that you can tell us about the victims?

POLIS: Well, there's one fatality that you reported, an 18-year-old male. Others are in the hospital in varying conditions. And they're -- we're all trained for their welfare through the night.

LEMON: You know, as we look at this video of students trying to comfort each other and they were, you know, out of school -- as they ran out of school. It is heart-wrenching. How are people at Highland's Ranch and that area? How are they doing tonight?

POLIS: Well, you know, this is an upscale community. It's a science, technology, engineering, mass charter school. Really many friends or friends of mine and people we know attend this school. I think so many are relieved to find their children safe. I mean I saw some of the video of the parents here are running to the center to arrange to pick up their kids afterwards.

It was done in an orderly way. The kids were moved to the pick-up site. The system worked in that sense. And, of course, if not for the courageous and prompt response of our first responders, the situation could --


POLIS: -- been far more tragic than it was.

LEMON: Absolutely. Look, can you tell us anything new about the investigation?

POLIS: Well, no. It's an on-going investigation. Sheriff Spurlock has done a terrific job with this. I sat in his most recent press conference, because the suspects are in custody and it's an ongoing investigation. Much of the information will be referred to the DA or likely prosecution. So in many of these situations, as you know, Don, the suspects are either killed in the process or kill themselves.

In this one, we do have confirmed two suspects that have been apprehended, and will most certainly be prosecuted with multiple witnesses and strong forensic evidence is being investigated.

LEMON: You know as I introduce you, I talked about, you know, about the anniversary and what's going on in Colorado, the fourth school shooting in Colorado since Columbine, 20 years ago. What are your -- are your constituents saying anything to you? Because I would imagine if this happens so much in a community that people would want some answers and they would want some corrective measure. What are they saying to you?

POLIS: You know it was only I think about two weeks ago. I attended the 20th recognition of the Columbine tragedy. And what many of the surviving students today, they're now young men and women in their 30s, you know did is they established a day of service. And we hope a national day of service for communities across the country where people take the today off one of the greatest school tragedies in our nation's history, Columbine.

[22:54:57] And they dedicated to making their communities better. So this is the strong community. People in Colorado are strong. And I know that it's these kinds of events that bring us all together, across, you know, any divide that we have, geographic, racial, political. All off Colorado and I know all of America mourns for the families.

And I know that those who are in the hospital, all of our thoughts and prayers are for their full recovery.

LEMON: I second that. Thank you, Governor Polis. I appreciate that. One student dead, eight other students injured, STEM School in Colorado. We'll be right back.