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Jill Biden Opens Up on Family, Tragedy and Trump; Dow Falls as Trade Talks Hit Wall Between U.S. & China; Newly-Released Video Shows Sandra Bland Recorded Confrontation with Texas Trooper in 2015 Traffic Stop; Judge: Coast Guard Officer Accused of Terror Plot Should be Released to Wife's Parents. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired May 7, 2019 - 14:30   ET



[14:30:00] DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Joe Biden proposed to you not once, not twice, not three times, not four times, five times.


BASH: The last time you got an ultimatum.

BIDEN: Yes, I did. I had to -- I had to be sure, you know. Beau and Hunt had lost their mother and sister in a car accident. And I had to make sure that they would not lose another mother because of divorce. So I had to be 100 percent positive. And I just couldn't hurt them.

BASH: They were the ones who came up with the idea --


BASH: -- that their father should propose to you.

BIDEN: Yes. Joe was shaving one morning, and they were all in the bathroom before school talking, and they said, dad, we think we should marry Jill. So they were the ones who came up with it.

BASH: We think "we" should marry Jill.

BIDEN: Yes. Yes. I think the boys, you know, they wanted a mommy. They wanted -- they wanted the family to be whole again, too. And it was important for the boys to remember their mother. And so her pictures were around, and so we kept her memory alive.

BASH: You write about Beau's death.

BIDEN: Mm-hmm.

BOLDUAN: You say you still don't have words to express your despair, which is understandable. You write, "Since Beau's death, I'm definitely shattered. I feel like a piece of China that's been glued back together again. The cracks may be imperceptible but they're there." BIDEN: Yes. They're there. I mean, you have a son. You probably --

when you probably read that part in my book, I'm sure you just thought to yourself, I can't imagine it. And I don't think any parent can imagine it. I mean, they can't even put their head in that space. And so you know, you just -- it's not something you get over. I don't think any mother who has lost a child is ever the same.

BASH: Let's talk about running for president.


BASH: One of my favorite stories in the book is, in 2004, your husband is meeting with advisers about whether he should run. You're out at the pool in your bikini. You walk through the meeting and you write in sharpie on your stomach, your bare stomach, N-O.

BIDEN: They got the hint.

BASH: Subtle.

BIDEN: Yes, it was subtle.


BASH: Why is this the right time for Joe Biden to run for president and be president?

BIDEN: Well, for the past two years, everywhere I have traveled across this country, people are coming up to me saying, he's got to run, he's got to run, Joe has to run. And I really have taken it to heart and thought about it. And Joe is such a unifier. He brings people together.

BASH: The physical way that your husband expresses himself has gotten a lot of attention. Some criticism from some women. I was struck that you, in the book, write about your own experience coming into the Biden family. You said that you are not someone who was used to public shows of affection. And that was an initially uncomfortable development.

BIDEN: Yes, he comes from a very affectionate family. They're always touching. And I think Joe is -- one thing I have admired about Joe is the way he makes connections with people. But recently, I mean, things -- times have changed. And Joe has heard that, you know, to back off and give people their space. And he has now taken responsibility for that. And someone asked me, did this ever happen to you. I have to say it has happened to me. And I -- like 20 years ago, and I did not have the courage to speak up then and say, stop that, you're in my space. Now, I would have the courage. But 20 years ago, I wouldn't. Times have changed.

BASH: Was there ever a time over the decades where you said, honey, I know this is your DNA, but maybe it's not the way that you should interact with people, especially when you're dealing with women, they might take it the wrong way? BIDEN: No. I didn't say anything to him, I guess, because that's the

way he -- I mean, that's just the way Joe was. But times have changed. And now things are different. And he has to back off a little bit and let people come to him. He shouldn't go to them.

BASH: On the campaign trail, there's no doubt that President Trump will start to attack the Biden family. What should your husband and your reaction to that be?

BIDEN: Well, I don't think we're going to address -- I mean, we're not going to take his bait. And --

BASH: That's going to be hard.


BASH: A lot of people have said that before and haven't been able to resist.

BIDEN: I know.


BIDEN: I know, it is going to be hard. And you know, but our family -- we have talked about it. Our family is resilient. Just think about our grandchildren have never known anything but politics in their life. Our children have grown up with it. And I think it's going to be tough, but we have talked about it. They're ready to run.

[14:35:17] BASH: One of my favorite parts of the book, "fexting." What is fexting? "F," not "S," for the record.

BIDEN: Yes. Yes. So when you're in the car with the Secret Service, you know, they hear -- I mean, they're not supposed to listen to everything, but you're sitting in the front seat and back seat. So of course, I love Joe to death, but sometimes if he annoys me, you know, I start, you know, fighting over text and then he'll say, this is on text.

BASH: You're sitting right next to each other.

BIDEN: Yes, but you can't say something horrible or anything that you would say to a spouse when they annoy you.

BASH: Because the Secret Service is right there?

BIDEN: Yes. Yes. So I came up with that word, fexting, fighting over text.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Not that any of us know anything about --

BASH: I don't know about it.

BALDWIN: -- fexting with our -- (CROSSTALK)

BASH: But I know it goes out very fast.

BALDWIN: You're such a trooper and your voice. She's OK. But you're a stud for --

BASH: I'm on the upswing.

BALDWIN: I want to go back to your asking her about will she take -- Trump is going to come after the Biden family, especially if he's the one who locks in the nomination. And you're asking -- she is saying, well, our family won't take the bait. And your follow-up was perfect, how is that possible, especially as you go down that road for so many months.

BASH: And how many candidates did we see in the nomination, fellow Republicans --


BALDWIN: Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio.

BASH: Yes. I mean, the whole thing. And they swore they wouldn't do it. And it happens. And it is really hard. Joe Biden has been in public life and has been in elected office for decades, absolutely, as she said, but never against somebody who has just the gumption -- probably other words to use -- to go after his opponents in a way that we haven't seen before. But we'll see what happens. There's a long way to go.

BALDWIN: There is.

BASH: He's already doing it. Already got a nickname for him, Sleepy Joe. But it could turn if he gets close to being the nominee.

BALDWIN: And her book is out today.

BASH: Yes.

BALDWIN: Dana Bash, thank you so much.

BASH: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: It was considered a water-shed moment in the Black Lives Matter movement. Now nearly four years after the death of Sandra Bland in police custody, cell phone video surfaces taken by Bland herself. Why are we just now seeing it?

Also, we're following breaking news on Wall Street this afternoon. The Dow falling fast as trade war talks between China and the U.S. appear to be crumbling.


[14:42:35] BALDWIN: Breaking news on Wall Street. The Dow falling fast as the president threatens China with new tariffs.

Let's go straight to Richard Quest.

Richard, down 578 right now and all over China.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE & CNN HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": It is. The president made the threat yesterday. The Chinese are still coming to Washington. But the reality is everybody is ganging up in his favor. So you start the day lower, miserable, I would say. Miserable start to the day. But then the snowball goes downhill, to mix the metaphors, and the selling continues. And, Brooke, we're now at that very difficult part of the day, heading into the last hour of trade. So just about five minutes ago, we were off 600 points on the -- that's the lowest point so far of the day. We rallied back up a bit. But the next hour will be crucial.

I was down at the stock exchange earlier today talking to the traders and they said the selling is broad, it is deep. People are taking profits, Brooke, after four months of good gains. It makes sense when you think that there's profits to be taken.

BALDWIN: The deadline is Thursday. We just have no idea what happens between the U.S. and China. We saw what the president has threatened. Why do this so late in the game?

QUEST: A negotiating tactic, I suppose the president would say. He intended to do it on Friday. We've already seen from the past he will do it. Anybody who thinks this is negotiation, per se, I think they're wrong. He would do it. But the market has risen so sharply since January but you've got this massive froth on the top and you're seeing it wiped away. If it all calms down, the market may recover just a little bit. But if these tariffs come in on Friday, you're looking at a much more serious situation. This number becomes extremely dodgy.

BALDWIN: Richard Quest, thank you very much for the update as we keep a close eye on the Dow.

Backlash erupts after the new NRA president says the only reason Congressman -- Congresswoman Lucy McBath won is because, and I'm quoting, "a minority woman." So we'll talk live with Congresswoman McBath and get her reaction to that.

Plus, the president's latest pardon, a former Army lieutenant convicted of killing an Iraqi prisoner. Hear why.

[14:44:50] You're watching CNN.


BALDWIN: There's a renewed focus on the controversial arrest of Sandra Bland during a 2015 traffic stop that drew national attention. Newly-released video shows Bland recorded her own video of the confrontation with the Texas state trooper who stopped her for failing to signal.



SANDRA BLAND, FOUND DEAD IN JAIL CELL AFTER CONFRONTATION WITH TROOPER DURING TRAFFIC STOP: Why am I being apprehended. You're giving me a ticket for failure --


BLAND: Why am I being apprehended? You just opened my car door.


BLAND: You just opened my car door. So you're going to threaten to drag me out of my own car.

ENCINIA: Get out of the car!


ENCINIA: I will light you up. Get out!




ENCINIA: Get out of the care.

BLAND: For failure to signal. And you're doing this for a failure to signal.

ENCINIA: Get over there.

Yes, right, yes. Yes, let's take this to court.

ENCINIA: Go ahead.

BLAND: Let's do it. For a failure to signal. Yes, for a failure to signal.

ENCINIA: Get off the phone.


ENCINIA: Get off the phone.

BLAND: I'm not on the phone. I have the right to record.

ENCINIA: Get off the phone.

BLAND: This is my property. This is my property.

ENCINIA: Put your phone down. BLAND: Sir --

ENCINIA: Put your phone down right now!


[14:50:18] BALDWIN: Nearly four years later, a lawyer for the Bland family said the family is just now seeing that video. Up until now, the public has only seen the dash-cam video showing the trooper yanking Bland from her car. Three days after her stop, she was found hanging in a jail cell in what was officially ruled a suicide. And Trooper Brian Encinia said he feared for his safety during that incident. A grand jury indicted him for perjury but that charge was later dropped when he agreed to never work in law enforcement again.

We should note that the Texas Department of Safety and the special prosecutor in the Bland case have yet to respond to our inquiries.

Joey Jackson is here. He's a criminal defense attorney and CNN legal analyst.

I mean, gosh, where do I even start. And what scenario would this piece of evidence never have been shared?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: There should be no scenario. This is so disturbing and troubling in that you look at an issue like this and it is unavoidable or it certainly is avoidable. And the fact is you would expect and anticipate and hope that police would be into de- escalation. I don't want to indict the entirety of police officers. Officers are out there working hard every day.


JACKSON: But you look at this issue like this and you ask yourself, how does it come to this. In terms of how and why it should be released, as part of the evidence that goes forward through lawyers every day, Brooke, this evidence gets shared. And this is significant because it shows from her advantage point, Sandra Bland's, what she was encountering, what she was approaching and how she felt.

If you look at the critical question of the officer saying he feared for his safety, did he really fear for his safety? Is that demonstrated and shown? And that goes to the issue in question on the perjury charges when he said, I fear for my safety. What is perjury? A lie about a material fact. A fact that's important. No more important fact than the officer saying, hey, I did this because I fear for my safety. Why were the charges dropped? Why was it not pursued? The prosecutor said because we don't think we could get a conviction. That's not the standard. The fact is that, they should, if they're going for in grand jury, had a reasonable cause to believe a crime was occurred, pursue the case to fruition and not give a sweetheart deal. That is troubling.

BALDWIN: I know everyone is sitting here thinking, now that you have the video evidence out there, could they not reopen the case. A reminder, the Bland family did take a $1.9 million settlement. Beto O'Rourke just tweeted on this, demanding they reopen this

investigation into the arrest and into the death. Is it out of the realm of possibility that this gets reopened?

JACKSON: Brooke, before we talk about reopening it, I want to talk about what they had access to during the time. Generally, cases could get reopened if there's newly discovered evidence not in the province at the time.

BALDWIN: But they would have had this information.

JACKSON: They would have had this information. If they had the information and they had enough to go to the grand jury, as it relates to the criminal case, you would think the prosecutors felt they could prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. Why was this not brought out in the first place? Why were they not transparent about it? And why now are we learning about it? And I should hasten to add, of course, that the -- Sandra Bland's own attorney said, hey, I'll chock it up to an oversight but why am I seeing this now. That was in a civil context because of the $1.9 million settlement. But why it now that we just seeing it. It raises troubling questions as to whether prosecutors were doing their job to get justice or were they sweeping it under the rug and outside of the public view, which is more disturbing.

BALDWIN: That remains to be seen.

Joey Jackson, thank you very much --

JACKSON: Always.

BALDWIN: -- for your perspective.

JACKSON: Thank you, Brooke.

The president is completely ignoring Congress as it investigates. And today, the White House ordered former counsel, Don McGahn, a key witness in the Mueller report, not to comply with the subpoena. Here what is next.

[14:53:47] And just in, a judge decides where a Coast Guard officer accused of plotting terror will go once he walks free. We'll take you there.


BALDWIN: Just into CNN, a federal judge in Maryland has ruled that a Coast Guard officer accused of plotting a domestic terror attack should be released from detention but will remain in custody for now. Lieutenant Christopher Hasson is accused of being a white supremacist who wanted to kill politicians and reporters.

CNN's justice correspondent, Jessica Schneider, was in the courtroom for today's hearing.

So, Jessica, tell me about his release. [14:59:41] JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: The judge

has ordered the release of Lieutenant Christopher Hasson. Prosecutors have alleged that Christopher Hasson wanted to come up with a plot to murder innocent civilians as well as have this hit list of prominent Democratic politics and media figures. But despite that, the judge in this hearing and previous hearings, said the Bail Reform Act doesn't allow for Mr. Hasson to remain detailed while the trial is pending. Because the government here, despite the enormous allegations he was plotting to murder innocent people.