Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Where Is Secretary Pompeo?; Country Approves of Trump's Handling of Economy; Trump Administration Defying Congressional Subpoenas. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired May 07, 2019 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: But, despite that, the judge in this hearing and previous hearings has said that the Bail Reform Act just doesn't allow for Mr. Hasson to remain detailed while the trial is pending.

And that's because the government here, despite these enormous allegations that he was plotting to murder innocent people, the government has only been able to charge Mr. Hasson with weapons and drug-related charges.

That's because there really is no domestic terrorism statute that they could charge him with. So, because of that, the judge saying today that Lieutenant Hasson will be released.

However, the terms are the release are still in flux. It appears he will be going to live with either his mother-in-law or his father-in- law in Virginia. Both of them have separate residences. He will also be under strict conditions.

He won't be allowed any devices that have Internet connectivity. He will also undergo drug testing, mental health counseling as well. And he will wear a GPS monitoring device.

The prosecution here, the government, not at all happy with this. They say that there are no conditions of release that they believe would keep the public safe. The judge acknowledged that he does have some concerns here, that he is nervous. He said this. He says, "It makes me very nervous, but I don't think that justifies detention," because, again, Lieutenant Hasson only charged with those drugs and weapons charges.

The judge reiterating here that, when Mr. Hasson is eventually released, that those third-party custodians, whether it's his mother- in-law or father-in-law, the judge said they are expected to be the eyes and ears of the court.

The judge acknowledging that, yes, there is a risk of flight, as in any case, but he hopes that the electronic monitoring will prevent that. So what happens from here? There isn't an automatic release. Lieutenant Hasson isn't walking out of the courthouse free right now. They have to determine the exact terms of release. There has to be

paperwork filed. And, Brooke, prosecutors have said that they will immediately appeal this decision. So, as such, the judge has actually put a stay on his ruling, and the government will be appealing.

Usually, we understand that those appeals take about a week. So we Lieutenant Hasson, although this judge has he should be released, it's not a definite as to when. And it could take at least another week or more before he's actually released, unless, of course, a higher court decides that that's just not appropriate here -- Brooke.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Sounds like there is more to this story still unfolding. Jessica Schneider, stay on it for us. Thank you so much in Greenbelt, Maryland.

And quick check of the Dow here, as it has been plummeting, and fast, down 566 points, an hour to go of the trading day. The key issue, all of this pertaining to those trade talks between China and the U.S.

We have seen the threats from President Trump over Twitter in the last couple of days. He's got until Friday. We will see if he makes good on his threat to raise those tariffs. Will he make good? Is this a negotiating tactic? Is this art of the deal? Stay tuned for that.

Now to the president's war with Congress, tempting contempt. The Trump administration has defied three major legal deadlines in the last 24 hours, requests for documents, congressional subpoenas, and now Democrats say they will consider holding at least four members of the Trump administration in contempt.

Former White House counsel Don McGahn is among those who is not complying. Today, the White House ordered him to ignore a subpoena from House Democrats. And just last hour, staff for Judiciary Chairman Jerry Nadler, they met with the Department of Justice to -- quote -- "negotiate an accommodation."

Let's go straight to CNN congressional correspondent Sunlen Serfaty on this one.

And so what have you heard about the meeting, Sunlen, and these obviously escalating tensions between Congress and the White House?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Brooke.

Well, the meeting is now over, that meeting between DOJ staff and staff on the Judiciary Committee in the House. And they met up here up on the Hill for under an hour. And following that meeting, an aide to Chairman Nadler, the chairman of the committee, says that, as of now, at this moment, the contempt vote is still scheduled, is still on for Wednesday morning.

So, that would certainly suggest that there was no breakthrough, no compromise reached, no deal reached in that meeting today, which was, of course, the goal of the meeting. And going into that meeting, the chairman said that he would be, of course, willing to put on hold the contempt vote, if they could -- in his words, if there was a good- faith effort to give access to Democrats for what they want.

Of course, they want the underlying evidence. They also want the full unredacted Mueller report. But, as you note, this is just one of many battles that has escalated significantly up here on Capitol Hill just this week. We're talking about requests for documents denied, congressional subpoenas, many of which have been defied.

And Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, she said earlier today that this shows that the president and the administration are just trying to provoke Democrats.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Trump is goading us to impeach him. That's what he's doing. Every single day, he's just like taunting, taunting, taunting, because he knows that it would be very divisive in the country, but he doesn't really care. Just wants to solidify his base.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:05:04]

SERFATY: So you can clearly sense some frustration growing on the speaker of the House's face there as she talked about this stonewalling coming from the White House, even as, Brooke, she tries to show restraint and take a more cautious approach to impeachment.

That's certainly the message that she continues to send her conference.

BALDWIN: Sunlen, thank you.

Let's analyze all of that.

CNN legal and national security analyst Asha Rangappa is a former FBI special agent.

And, Asha, when you and I spoke last week, when we talked about the possibility for A.G. Bill Barr being held in contempt, you said, we're in the back alleys of crazy town, near the dark dumpster.

You remember this conversation?

ASHA RANGAPPA, CNN LEGAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes.

BALDWIN: And so Chairman Nadler says this vote is still on tomorrow. Where are we now?

RANGAPPA: Brooke, I guess now the bodies are going to start getting put in the dumpster.

(LAUGHTER)

RANGAPPA: I mean, look, this is really the ultimate limits of the showdown between Congress and the executive branch. I mean, ultimately, each institution in our tripartite government has

certain powers. And they need to be honored and respected, or they need to assert them if they're not being honored or respected.

So Congress is really in a position right now where they are either going to have to take the next step, which is not only to hold these people in contempt, but to potentially invoke their own inherent contempt powers, which gives them the possibility of levying fines or sending people to jail, which would be an extreme measure, or to really just up the ante and begin to invoke their impeachment power as the grounds for obtaining this kind of information.

BALDWIN: Well, the Senate majority leader, he says it's case closed.

Mitch McConnell took to the floor today to say this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): This investigation went on for two years. It's finally over. Many Americans were waiting to see how their elected officials would respond.

With an exhaustive investigation complete, would the country finally unify to confront the real challenges before us, or would we remain consumed by unhinged partisanship and keep dividing ourselves, to the point that Putin and his agents need only stand on the sidelines and watch us as their job is actually done for them?

Regrettably, the answer is pretty obvious.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So in that speech, Asha, Leader McConnell suggested that Democrats were more angry with Barr than they have been with Putin.

Let me think of how many times president has been angry with Putin. And he never even mentioned obstruction.

RANGAPPA: This is like gaslighting central, Brooke.

I mean, it is very rich for Senator McConnell to be even speaking about countering Russian aggression. This was the -- somebody who refused to president a united front when the FBI informed him before the election that Russia was interfering in the election and even threatened to politicize it if they made it public.

And, of course, making it public would have helped neutralize Russia's actions, and, therefore, by keeping it silent, it effectively enabled them to a large degree.

So, I don't even know what to say to that. And it's definitely not over. We know that there are at least 12 investigations that have been spun off from Mueller's probe. There's still the open question of obstruction. And there's still an ongoing counterintelligence investigation, which is not over, as far as anyone knows.

And that has been ongoing since Russia began its activities in 2015.

BALDWIN: I also wanted to ask you, just as former FBI, we saw FBI Director Chris Wray clashing with the A.G. in a very public way, right?

This was about Barr and his use of the word spying when he was defending the president's claims that the FBI spied on the Trump campaign. So here was Director Wray today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: Well, that's not the term I would use. Look, there are lots of people that have different colloquial phrases.

I believe that the FBI is engaged in investigative activity. And part of investigative activity includes surveillance activity of different shapes and sizes. And, to me, the key question is making sure that it's done by the book.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: What did you think of that, how he really broke with his boss in a major way very publicly?

RANGAPPA: Well, I think that he said it exactly right.

He said it the way that the FBI would characterize it and as a lawyer would characterize it, Brooke, because spying is a very vague, loaded and unspecific term.

Remember that, in the FBI, as Director Wray said, we -- they conduct investigations. And there are many investigative techniques, which range from relatively nonintrusive to intrusive.

[15:10:05]

So, even the word surveillance, it could be physical surveillance, following somebody on foot, digging through their trash, or listening to their phone conversations.

And all of these have different kinds of approvals and requirements and thresholds to meet. So I think that anyone who is using vague terms, and not actually identifying the specific technique that they are suggesting was misused, everyone's ears should perk up, because that is not a genuine allegation or way of addressing the situation.

BALDWIN: Asha, good to see you. Thank you very much for that.

Despite the fights with congressional Democrats, President Trump is getting high marks for his handling of the U.S. economy. Check this out. This is according to a new CNN poll, which shows that more than half of Americans, 56 percent there, approve of Trump's work when it comes to the economy.

CNN special correspondent Jamie Gangel is here with me. And, Jamie Gangel...

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

BALDWIN: ... that number is up eight points since February. And his approval ratings are up. That's good news for him.

GANGEL: Right.

So there's a new Gallup poll that we have out. And it is good news. But the devil is in the details. If you look at that Gallup poll, Democrats 12 percent, Republicans 91 percent approval rating, but independents, key, we know, only 37 percent.

BALDWIN: Huh.

GANGEL: The other thing is, there's a magic number in politics, 50 percent. He only has 46 percent, which is higher and better. But he is the only president in modern history never to have been above 50 percent in his overall approval rating.

And what happens if the economy goes down? This is a snapshot. What happens when Robert Mueller testifies next week? What happens when you see the Dow falling today?

BALDWIN: Yes. Yes.

GANGEL: So these things are going to go up and down. But he still hasn't hit 50 percent.

BALDWIN: Something else I wanted to ask you about today.

You know a core group of constituents for a lot of Republicans, for this president is evangelicals.

GANGEL: Right.

BALDWIN: But when you look on the Democratic side, it's this South Bend mayor who's been making all this news, right, Pete Buttigieg, on -- talking very publicly about his faith.

So here's a clip from him earlier today on NBC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE BUTTIGIEG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's also important that we stopped seeing religion used as a kind of cudgel, as if God belonged to a political party. And if he did, I can't imagine it would be the one that sent the current president into the White House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Can't imagine God would be a Republican.

GANGEL: Right. So this is a little bit of a different tack for him. But you know

what? It's very refreshing. You look at the other Democratic candidates. They do not talk about religion. He is not scared to talk about it.

He goes to church every week, and he has used this against both Vice President Pence and Donald Trump. I just wanted to borrow the headline from CNN.com. One of our colleagues, Zach Cohen (sic), wrote a piece, and the headline was "Pete Buttigieg, a gay Christian, is driving the religious right nuts."

And I think that about sums it up. And he's going to keep on doing it. He is very comfortable in this lane.

BALDWIN: He is. I just -- well, we will talk in the break. I have a thought, but I'm going to hold on to it. We're still so early.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: Jamie Gangel. thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Coming up next here on CNN, where in the world is Mike Pompeo? The secretary of state abruptly canceling a meeting with the German chancellor to go to an undisclosed location. All of this comes as he's making headlines for saying melting Arctic ice may actually be a good thing. Hear his argument based on trade.

Plus, I will talk live to Congresswoman Lucy McBath. Hear her response after the new NRA president said McBath was only elected from Georgia because she was -- and I'm quoting -- "a minority female."

You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:18:55]

BALDWIN: We're back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And now to this schedule change that is igniting speculation the world over. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo was supposed to meet with German Chancellor Angela Merkel and her foreign minister today, but America's top diplomat canceled on them.

The reason? Pressing issues. This is according to the State Department. Might those issues be Iran, where a -- quote, unquote -- "specific credible threat" was detected, prompting the U.S. to deploy that carrier strike group?

North Korea, perhaps, where Kim Jong-un's regime just did a short- range missile test? Perhaps Venezuela, where the U.S. is trying to get cash to the opposition leader amid all those uprising -- uprisings?

The only other detail coming out, Secretary Pompeo's press pool was warned that journalists would not be able to report from the country they are headed to until after they leave.

Heather Conley is a former assistant secretary of state and is now the senior vice president for Europe, Eurasia and the Arctic at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Heather, so nice to have you on.

Listen, this is obviously speculation, because none of us knows where -- where he is. But what location would be so secretive and so important that would merit the U.S. secretary of state canceling a meeting with Angela Merkel?

[15:20:08]

HEATHER CONLEY, DIRECTOR, EUROPE PROGRAM, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Yes, this is a great mystery.

And the fact that there are some press reports that suggest that the secretary's plane was tracking east -- of course, east of Finland, where he was previously attending the Arctic Council Ministerial -- would be Russia.

He was supposed to go to Berlin and then on to London. Now, our British colleagues are telling us that that portion hasn't been visited. So is this a one quick trip? But if he's going longer distances, I would suspect that the London visit may be postponed or canceled as well.

But this is extraordinary. And you're right. You have got the top three contenders would, of course, be Iran, North Korea or Venezuela, those three hot spots, but who knows where Secretary Pompeo is right now?

BALDWIN: All right, so question mark on that.

We know that he left Finland, where he had spoken before to the Arctic Council. Those are the leaders of the nations of the countries that touch the Arctic Circle. And he'd argue that melting Arctic ice might be an opportunity. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE POMPEO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The Arctic is at the forefront of opportunity and abundance. It houses 13 percent of the world's undiscovered oil, 30 percent of its undiscovered gas, and an abundance of uranium, rare earth minerals, gold, diamonds, and millions of square miles of untapped resources.

Steady reductions in sea ice are opening new passageways and new opportunities for trade. Arctic sea lanes could come before -- could become the 21st century Suez and Panama canals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Want to bring another voice into this conversation, CNN climate change correspondent Bill Weir. And people are taking note that he failed to say two key specific words in that speech, being climate change.

BILL WEIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Climate change, right, yes.

What's interesting is, he was part of a group that years back denied it was even happening. They said it was a 17-year pause, this is a liberal stunt, the Chinese -- it's a hoax.

But now you can buy a first-class ticket on a luxury cruise line and go from Anchorage to New York over the top, because so much ice has melted. You can have a hot toddy and wave at a polar bear taking routes that would have killed any sailor for hundreds of years.

BALDWIN: Because it used to be, so, so, so cold.

WEIR: And world scientists yesterday put out a massive report on biodiversity and said a million species are at risk because human beings are digging and mining and drilling and paving every corner of the planet.

And instead of seeing a melted Arctic as a huge red flag, they're rubbing their hands together and say, more oil, more minerals, at a time when scientists are trying to call for world leaders -- look, Russia is -- they're licking their chops too. As the planet warms, not only will their grain belts turn into the new breadbasket of the world, but they can get all that oil in the Arctic.

So...

BALDWIN: It's a rush to get up there.

WEIR: It's a rush to get up there, at a time when scientists are saying, guys, come together, because we keep this up, there will be no planet left to claim. There will be no supply chains to defend or no more minerals to mine.

It's sort of like they're the -- the scientists are like the guy in the movie theater on fire yelling fire. But the managers, instead of calling the fire department, they lock the doors and open the snack bar.

(LAUGHTER)

WEIR: Like, it's so opposite of the message you're getting from the -- those in the environmental side.

BALDWIN: Wow.

We're also getting some more news just relating to this part of the world.

Heather, let me bring you back in, because the Arctic Council this year did not issue a formal -- formal declaration that's been signed by all eight foreign ministers. And, reportedly, that's the first time it failed to do so since this council was created back in 1996. And a source is now telling CNN that it's because the U.S. refused to

sign over wording on climate change. A source from the U.S. State Department refuted that, saying that the U.S. was ready to sign.

What do you make of all of this and how much does it concern you?

CONLEY: So, yes, this is the first time that we had a -- basically a chairman statement. Finland is the chair, the two-year chair, of the Arctic Council.

The U.S. was the chair of the Arctic Council from 2015 to 2017, but the difference being, after we passed the chairmanship to Finland, this is when the Trump administration withdrew from the Paris climate accord.

And so they were able to wordsmith climate change in the previous Arctic Council Ministerial declaration, but, this time, clearly, it was not. So, it's a very unusual way for the chairman to issue a statement.

And even in that statement, it was very clear that, when any reference to climate change or the Paris accords, it was a majority of us. And that was the U.S. standing alone.

Look, Secretary Pompeo gave a very big speech, a big warning speech about great power of competition in the Arctic. But those economic opportunities that Bill was talking about is due because of the dramatic transformation in the Arctic, the minimization of the polar ice cap, the absolute disappearing Greenland ice sheet.

[15:25:02]

These are really powerful global climate impacts that we're seeing happening in the Arctic. The Arctic is warming twice as fast as any place on the planet.

This is what's driving those economic opportunities, but it comes down to climate change. So it was not, again, U.S. leadership at its finest once again.

BALDWIN: We got to leave it.

Heather, thank you very much.

And, Bill Weir, thank you, as always, for the metaphors.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

WEIR: I got a million. It's a renewable resource.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Ba-dum-bum. Coming up next, the new NRA president apologizing after saying Congresswoman Lucy McBath was only elected because she's a minority female. The congresswoman will join me live. We will get her reaction coming up next.

Also, we're getting breaking news from the Pentagon on the Iranian threat that U.S. officials say prompted them to deploy that big carrier strike group. Barbara Starr, our Pentagon correspondent, is standing by with that.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:30:00]