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Escalating Fight Between Trump and House Dems; Chinese Official Heading to D.C. to Resume Trade Talks; U.S. Threatens Tariffs on $200 Billion of Chinese Goods; Prince Harry & Meghan Markle Welcome Baby Boy. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired May 07, 2019 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The House Judiciary Committee plans to vote on Wednesday to hold Barr in contempt.

[05:59:17] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Secretary Mnuchin will not fulfill that request for six years of the president's tax returns.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Democrats are in great peril as they continue to go down this path. It is the president's political advantage to block everything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Congress has a strong case here. The White House is stonewalling them at every front.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hip-hip hooray!

PRINCE HARRY, UNITED KINGDOM: Meghan and myself had a baby boy. It's been the most amazing experience.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This baby is special for all of us. We all saw his parents get married. That's a particular blessing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And we will get to the royal baby, John. Don't you worry.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I imagine that Prince Harry seemed genuinely shocked by what he saw in the delivery room.

CAMEROTA: He was euphoric.

BERMAN: He's like any new dad. And I think that's charming. I agree with you, that is charming. And I also like the beard, which he's allowed to keep. I'm just saying.

CAMEROTA: Still bitter, are we?

BERMAN: He's allowed to keep it. No one called him and said he had to get rid of the beard.

CAMEROTA: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. This is NEW DAY. It is Tuesday, May 7, 6 a.m. here in New York.

So this morning, there is a new fight between the Trump White House and congressional Democrats. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin officially refusing the request from House Ways and Means Committee to turn over the president's tax returns, saying it, quote, "lacks a legitimate legislative purpose."

And today, House Judiciary Chairman Jerry Nadler says his staff will meet with Justice Department officials to try to reach an agreement on access to the Mueller report. If they cannot reach an agreement, lawmakers plan to vote tomorrow to hold Attorney General William Barr in contempt of Congress.

BERMAN: All in all, it seems that one might say it's a completely contemptible week. Former White House counsel Don McGahn could face a contempt citation by 10 a.m. Eastern Time this morning if he doesn't turn over documents to Congress connected to the Mueller investigation. We should get the clock going. Countdown to contempt.

And then the big question, will Robert Mueller himself testify? The attorney general, or the president, they could try to block an appearance before Congress. The House has set aside May 15, one week from tomorrow, for the special counsel to testify.

Meantime, hundreds of former federal prosecutors have signed a letter saying President Trump would have been charged with obstruction if he were anyone other than the president.

We have a lot to cover this morning. Let's get right to Capitol Hill. CNN's Lauren Fox live there with the very latest. Decision time over the next several hours for Democrats, Lauren.

LAUREN FOX, CNN POLITICS CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right. And Democrats are plotting ahead, trying to find a way around the White House's unprecedented obstruction, as they seek information related to their investigations. The latest blow coming, like you said, from Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FOX (voice-over): The Trump administration raising a new roadblock in House Democrats' efforts to investigate the president. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin refusing to hand over President Trump's personal and business tax returns to the House Ways and Means Committee.

In a letter to Chairman Richard Neal, Mnuchin writing he decided Treasury can't give the documents, saying he "determined that the committee's request lacks a legitimate legislative purpose."

Neal saying the committee "will consult with counsel and determine the appropriate response." The tax return battle could make its way to the Supreme Court, as the

Trump administration's contempt for Congress becomes more apparent.

House Judiciary Chair Jerry Nadler considering contempt of Congress for Attorney General William Barr, scheduling a vote for tomorrow after Barr declined to provide the full, unredacted Mueller report by Monday. Justice Department officials will try to diffuse the situation in a meeting with committee staff today.

But Nadler says the "plans to consider holding Attorney General Barr accountable for his failure to comply with our subpoena still stand." Democrats saying Barr's refusal to release the report gives them no choice.

REP. TED LIEU (D-CA): We have to fight fire with fire and have all our options on the table. One of them is contempt. I hope we don't have to use it this Wednesday, but we will if we must.

FOX: While the attorney general skipped a hearing last week, the House Judiciary Committee is pressing forward with another request, to host Special Counsel Robert Mueller at a hearing next week, tentatively May 15.

Mueller is still a Justice Department employee, which means officials could block him from testifying. President Trump tweeting Sunday, Bob Mueller should not testify, after weeks of saying it was up to Attorney General William Barr, who told the Senate Judiciary Committee last week.

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): What about Bob Mueller? Should he be allowed to testify before the Senate?

WILLIAM BARR, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I've already said publicly I have no objection to him.

FOX: A Trump administration official telling CNN the president's tweet was misinterpreted, saying, "The president was expressing his opinion, that the investigation is over and it's time to move on."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOX: And House Democrats could move to hold former White House counsel McGahn in contempt of Congress if he doesn't turn over subpoena documents by 10 a.m. this morning. The White House could exert executive privilege, as well, over his testimony before the House Judiciary Committee.

CAMEROTA: OK, Lauren, thank you very much for all of that. Let's bring in Rachael Bade. She's the congressional reporter for "The Washington Post." She's also a CNN political analyst.

You have lots of reporting on all of the stuff that's happening today. So Rachael, Don McGahn, let's start there. Because the feeling was that he might be willing to come to Congress and talk, and willingly turn over things that related to the president pressing him to get rid of Robert Mueller. So why, now, has it become more contentious? RACHAEL BADE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you know, these talks

about contempt for Don McGahn, they're early. And to be clear, the committee is still hopeful that he does cooperate. They are holding out hope that he will.

The -- I guess the -- McGahn and his attorney are expecting that the White House, at some point here, is going to exert executive privilege to keep him from turning over these documents that he needs to do by 10 a.m.

[06:05:03] But ultimately, I'm told it's up to McGahn. You know, if he doesn't think that they have a legitimate reason for asserting executive privilege, he can ignore the White House and choose to cooperate with Congress.

And the reason he might choose to do that is because, apparently, a lot of lawyers are saying that asserting executive privilege after you've already waived it so that he could testify before Mueller probably won't stand up in court. So he would be held in contempt and, ultimately, forced to testify, potentially, with this black mark on his record anyway.

BERMAN: So Rachel, I guess my question is the bigger picture here, which is, at what point do the Democrats actually take action? They risk seeming like the boy who cried contempt, as it were here. Because they've been talking about it for over a week now. So when does the rubber meet the road here?

Steve Mnuchin saying no to the taxes. Will they take him to court this week, or start that process? The contempt stuff, will they vote on that now, or will they succumb to the delay tactics that the White House seems to be instituting here, just inching it forward, day by day?

BADE: I think that, you know, you're going to see them go to court soon. I'm not sure exactly when. I don't know if it's going to be this week.

But Democratic lawyers have sort of made this point over and over again. They have to look like they're trying to work with the White House, they're trying to work with the administration. And that means giving them extension after extension after extension, and then going to court, which apparently bolsters their legal argument.

So for instance, in the case of Don McGahn, this is his first deadline at 10 a.m. I don't expect us to hear anything about contempt today. If they -- with Barr, they asked for the Mueller report. And they gave Barr another extension, I think two extensions. And they don't exactly have a good relationship with Barr.

But they are hopeful on McGahn, so I do think it's going to drag out a little bit. I'm not sure exactly when they go, but I would expect that, at some point, this is all going to head to the courts. And, ultimately, if Democrats do not do impeachment of the president, judges are going to be the ones who decide these issues. And it is just TBD, at what point in time. CAMEROTA: So with Bill Barr, the issue is the Democrats want to see

the unredacted, the entire unredacted Mueller report, and Bill Barr is saying that, legally -- I mean, he seems to be claiming that he cannot show them grand jury testimony.

So they're negotiating today. I mean, what -- are they at an impasse, or what might they -- might Democrats settle for something less than the full, unredacted report?

BADE: So yes, Barr has been arguing that he can't turn over grand jury information, and he's right on that. They would need to go to a judge to do that. But Democrats have asked him over and over again, go to a judge to get that information. Because previous special counsel, special prosecutors did just that so they could turn over grand jury information to Congress in the case of Watergate, in the case of Ken Starr's report on Clinton and Monica Lewinsky. And Barr has refused to do that.

But you know, this meeting today, we might again see a delay in the contempt citation or contempt vote tomorrow, if they come up with some sort of agreement. But there's a fundamental clashing here that I don't know if they're going to be able to fix. Because ultimately, the Justice Department is saying Congress doesn't needs to relitigate the Mueller report, and Congress is saying, "Yes, we do. Mueller wanted us to." So I don't know that they're going to get past that difference.

BERMAN: All right. Rachel Bade, thank you very much for your reporting on this.

We do have some breaking news we want to tell you about this morning. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, he is on a trip overseas, and we are learning this morning it is taking an unexpected turn. He just cancelled a trip to Berlin. He was due there, set to meet with the German chancellor, Angela Merkel. We got word from the State Department that that trip was cancelled at the last minute.

While this is going on, the press pool traveling with the secretary of state, they're not being told where they are going next. And they have been told they may not be able to report from the country they're going to until after they leave.

Now, we do know that Pompeo will meet with the Russian foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, a week from today in Sochi, Russia. But one of the reasons this is of note is because, obviously, the United States has ratcheted up the pressure on Iran over the last several days. Mike Pompeo has been talking about that. There are warships moving to the Persian Gulf. And this meeting with Merkel was cancelled for pressing issues. So is there some kind of crisis situation the secretary is now dealing with? We're trying to get some new reporting on that.

CAMEROTA: Obviously, we'll continue to follow that for you.

Meanwhile, China's vice premier is traveling to Washington on Thursday to try to get trade talks with the U.S. back on track. President Trump has been rattling global markets by threatening to impose new tariff on $200 billion worth of Chinese goods on Friday.

So CNN's Matt Rivers has the latest, live from Beijing. What's the situation there, Matt?

MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, China announced that the vice premier would, in fact, be going to Washington this week after there was some speculation that he would cancel that trip. Given what the president tweeted on Sunday, given the harsher words coming out of D.C., there was some thought that Beijing would cancel the Chinese delegation's trip to D.C.

But it is going forward as planned. And as you said, it's an attempt by the Chinese to get these trade talks back on track.

[06:10:08] But make no mistake about it. In this game of last-minute brinksmanship between China and the United States, at least for now, this is China blinking. Had China chosen not to send a delegation to the U.S. this week, that would have meant a deal was off for a long time.

So by sending their chief economic negotiator to D.C., I think that shows you that China does want a deal to happen. They don't want tariffs to go up. They're nervous about that. And I think they're taking the president and his advisers at their word, that tariffs would go up on Friday.

I think -- there was some thought here in Beijing -- they were surprised at what the president said. They weren't expecting it, but they do want to get a deal done. And sending their top negotiator means that they're serious about that -- John.

BERMAN: All right. Matt Rivers for us. Thank you very much for that.

U.S./China trade talks and the president's tweets are taking stocks on a roller-coaster ride. As of this minute, U.S. futures are pointing lower. So let's get to CNN chief business correspondent Christine Romans for what the markets see in all of this -- Romans.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, John.

You know, so much of the stock market's advance this year has been predicated on the idea that you were going to get a trade deal, and you would get one, you know, this summer, with a signing ceremony maybe in June.

And the president, you know, throwing that up in the air here. The U.S. says it is going to keep to those tariffs, raising those tariffs on Friday, that is going to happen. And that's going to be a significant move. A 25 percent tariff on $200 billion in goods, that's going to be disruptive for the retail industry. And the retail trade group has said so.

All of this, of course, roiling markets. Yesterday, a very big decline in the Dow, down 400 and some points. And then it came back to close down just 66. So there's also a feeling there that maybe the president talking tough here, John, could get the Chinese to give the concessions that the U.S. wants.

I mean, word here is that American negotiators say the Chinese were reneging on some of the progress that had been made, and that's why they had to put this tariff threat on.

Looking at futures right now, they're down, but they're not down real hard. So I think that it's going to be volatile here for the next couple of days as we find out whether there's progress made in Washington this week with these trade talks, and when those tariffs really go into effect on Friday.

BERMAN: I think the fact that the Chinese are sending their top negotiator is something that might soothe the market worries --

ROMANS: Yes.

BERMAN: -- at least for the next few days. Christine Romans, great to have you with us from the new set.

ROMANS: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: In the new studio. Thanks, Romans.

Breaking overnight, it's long overdue and very welcome. Two Reuters journalists that have been jailed in Myanmar for more than 500 days, they are free this morning.

Wa Lone and Kyaw Soe Oo have been reunited with their loved ones. The pair, who received this year's Pulitzer Prize for international reporting, they've been locked up since 2017. They were charged under Myanmar's colonial era Official Secrets Act for their report on a massacre of Rohingya civilians.

The two men were released as part of an amnesty of nearly 6,300 prisoners by the country's president. As we said, very welcome. Long overdue.

OK. Speaking of overdue, Prince Harry and Meghan Markle, the Duchess of Sussex, now proud parents to a healthy baby boy. They have not released the baby's name, but we are expecting to get a peek at the newest little royal tomorrow.

CNN's Max Foster has been following this story very closely. He is live at Windsor Castle.

Max, do you know if they've chosen a baby name and not released it, or not decided on a name yet?

MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the suggestion yesterday was that they couldn't agree on a name. So perhaps there's some debate there.

I can tell you, though, Alisyn, the latest betting, because that's the best thing we have to go on, utter speculation. But here are the names people are betting on: Alexander, James, Arthur, Spencer. Twitter is full of rumors about the name. But we'll expect some sort of confirmation in the next couple of days.

What we do know is that we'll have the big reveal, hopefully during the show tomorrow, where we'll see the baby for the first time.

Also, the new mother for the first time, as well. All following this announcement, initially sent out by a traditional press release, then the new tradition of the Instagram post, and then confirmed by an elated new father.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRINCE HARRY, UNITED KINGDOM: It's been the most amazing experience I could ever have possibly imagined. We're both absolutely thrilled. And so grateful to all the love and support for everybody out there -- from everybody out there. It's been amazing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: One mystery, Alisyn, still remaining, where was this baby born? So we know that the duchess was hoping to have a home birth at the cottage just beside us, which is where they live now. But British media reporting that, actually, she was whisked up to a hospital in London, which is where she had the baby. Interesting the palace simply won't confirm or deny that report, which they're saying is a private matter.

CAMEROTA: All right, Max, stay on it. We are obviously fascinated by all of the developments there. And we will check back for the big reveal tomorrow. Thank you very much.

[06:15:03] BERMAN: It's apparently during our show. They're making the announcement on our show?

CAMEROTA: I think for our sake, yes.

BERMAN: That's a good booking.

CAMEROTA: Seven pounds, 3 ounces.

BERMAN: Which is a good side, healthy size.

CAMEROTA: Yes, yes.

BERMAN: Overdue. I mean, seven pounds, 3 ounces for an overdue baby is a healthy size.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BERMAN: My choice for a baby name is Gronk, after Rob Gronkowski.

CAMEROTA: Wow. I don't -- I hope they don't do that.

BERMAN: Gronk Markle Windsor.

CAMEROTA: We'll see. We'll see if they're listening. All right. Listen to this. More than 400 former federal prosecutors

have written a letter, saying that President Trump would be charged with obstruction if he were anyone else. We will talk with one of those prosecutors next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:20:18] BERMAN: As they say on "Seinfeld," no tax returns for you.

CAMEROTA: That's not what they said.

BERMAN: Almost.

Treasury secretary Steve Mnuchin has officially rejected the request from the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee to turn over the president's tax returns. Now, for what it's worth, there is a law, a law, that says the IRS -- well, what does the law say? Dramatic reading.

CAMEROTA: Dramatic reading, please. "Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means and of the House of Representatives, the secretary of the treasury shall furnish" --

BERMAN: "Shall furnish."

CAMEROTA: "-- such committee with any return or return information specified in the request, except any return which could be associated with or otherwise identified directly or indirectly." However, in a closed executive session, even that return can be turned over.

BERMAN: "Shall furnish." "Shall furnish."

Joining us now, Anne Milgram, former New Jersey attorney general and our legal analyst; and Elie Honig, former federal prosecutor, CNN legal analyst; and John Avlon, CNN senior political analyst.

"Shall furnish," Anne Milgram. I didn't go to law school, but that seems definitive, A.

ANNE MILGRAM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: "Shall" means must.

BERMAN: "Shall" means must. Good. B, then what happens next? Because Richard Neal, the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, now has a rejection from treasury. What can he do about it?

MILGRAM: I think we'll see them litigate litigate. I mean, there's a clear law that says Congress gets this information if they request it. And their only option now really is to go to the courts. And so we spent a lot of time following prosecutors, for the last two years. And now I think we're going to start following courts.

CAMEROTA: And what was -- I mean, Treasury Secretary Mnuchin is saying that he believes this request lacks a legitimate legislative purpose. Does the law cover that? Does he have any standing legally? ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I don't think so. He's saying, I

don't believe you, Congress. You say this is your purpose, but I don't think it is. But how is he going to prove that?

Look, Congress needs to stand up for itself here. They have been getting rolled since they took office in January. They've gotten nothing. We're four or five months into this term of Congress, and the White House has said, and the administration said across the board, you get nothing and like it.

And so far, they still have not gotten really a single piece of paper that matters. And there comes a time when they have to say, "Enough of this. Enough of getting strung along. We're going to the courts. We're litigating." And by the way, this is the perfect issue to litigate, because the law is so clear.

CAMEROTA: And how quickly could they litigate? Is this -- are we talking weeks or are we talking years?

BERMAN: That's the big catch.

MILGRAM: Years.

CAMEROTA: Why?

MILGRAM: Years. I mean, courts run slow, and I think that the argument Congress has to make here, that the House has to make, is that this has to be done expeditiously and really push. Because if they take too long, then it really eliminates any congressional power, right? If it takes two or three years.

BERMAN: So John, I actually think, though, this is now -- even though there's a legal side to this and it will go to the courts, this is all in the realm of politics here. And the political conundrum the Democrats are in, I think, is that, for the last several weeks, they've been saying, we're going to hold you in contempt and take you to court, and they just haven't done it yet. Is the time up for them?

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. And I think the taxes are probably a very good fight. You're going to see the Barr situation escalate.

To me, that's a little bit less strong ground, politically. The taxes scream out, because there is a total Heisman. There's not even the kabuki of an outreach, as there is with the redacted -- unredacted version of the Barr report.

The president clearly has something to hide in his taxes. He really does not want to release those. You know, Mnuchin's statement made it sound like it was his judgment. No. This is clearly coming from the top.

The law says, "shall furnish." And the reason it matters in both politics and law is we are careening towards that constitutional crisis people feared, be where the presidency, the executive branch, is saying it is not required, does not need to, and will obstruct any requests at oversight, checks and balances from Congress that gets resolved in courts, but that's when the politics come in. Because if they can slow the roll until after the election, it's effectively meaningless.

CAMEROTA: So they're also considering holding Don McGahn in contempt if he doesn't turn over or appear. That's being decided, it sounds like, today. And then Bill Barr, and they're still negotiating whether or not Barr is going to give the unredacted Mueller report. And that's also being negotiated today.

Do you think that -- I mean, this is a political question, but do you think that they --

AVLON: While we're chatting.

CAMEROTA: While we're talking, do you think that they care about being held in contempt? I mean, do you think that legacy speaking, legacy wise, that's a big deal?

MILGRAM: I'll tell you what I think they care about. I think they care about losing quickly and being held in contempt. And here's why.

I think the law requires, and the court cases require, what's called accommodation. Meaning that they have to walk in and talk to Congress about. They have to have a negotiation about what they turn over.

They're now doing that negotiation today. And it's the first time we've heard them doing it. Because if they don't it, I think court would rule with Congress with the House of Representatives very quickly.

[06:25:04] And so I think they care about losing quickly. And so I don't know that they care about, if they get held in contempt, and having a three-year fight. I think they see that as a win.

AVLON: And there is a precedent for this politically that could impact the court's decisions, too, which is Attorney General Holder being held in contempt over Fast and Furious. That matters.

Also, a lot of conservative commentators hailing the fact that at the time, that 17 Democrats voted with Republicans, and Democrats overwhelmingly opposed. There's situational ethics here, but I don't think that we're going to see any bipartisan coalition.

BERMAN: I will note, just to put a pin in this, the Obama administration ultimately lost.

AVLON: Yes, that's exactly right.

BERMAN: But it took three years.

AVLON: Right.

BERMAN: Three years. So that's the issue here.

AVLON: Yes. BERMAN: Elie, you have signed onto this letter that has now been signed off to by some 450, and the number goes up.

CAMEROTA: More. Five hundred and sixty-six was my last count.

BERMAN: Wow. I can't sleep at all.

HONIG: I was one of the original signers.

BERMAN: Let me read it to you, Elie. The argument here is if Donald Trump were not president of the United States, he would be charged with obstruction.

One of the official quotes here is "Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller's report would, in the case of any other person, not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy, against indicting a sitting president, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice."

The letter basically says it's not even close. Why do you feel so strongly about this?

HONIG: I absolutely believe Donald Trump obstructed justice. I don't think it's that close.

The first time I read the Mueller report, it jumped out at me. I said, "Wow, this is not just obstruction of justice, this is a whole campaign to not just side track an investigation but to take the whole thing down."

And it's important that people understand, I think, what obstruction of justice normally looks like when you're a prosecutor. I've done obstruction of justice cases for somebody trying to make one witness change one aspect of their story.

I've done obstruction of justice cases for someone trying to make a witness just get out of town for a week or two during trial.

And you look at that compared to what Donald Trump did here, and there's no comparison. And one thing that I've not heard from anybody, including the attorney general, is any sort of coherent, convincing explanation as to sort of why this is OK.

We know Bill Barr just sort of swept it all away and said, no obstruction. He was given a chance to explain that conclusion in front of the Senate last week, and he had nothing. He said -- he said, "Well, normally, you need an underlying offense."

Guess what? Yesterday, Bill Barr's Department of Justice indicted somebody in Virginia for obstruction of justice with no underlying offense. You do not need that as a matter of law.

He said the president was frustrated and angered. That's silly. That's a reason people do obstruct, not don't obstruct. And then he also said to me, beyond the realm of the silly, well, I

believe, constitutionally, the president has the right to stop and take down any investigation that he believes is unjust, even if it's one impacting him. And that goes beyond silly and into the dangerous to me.

So I think it's important that this stand be taken, at least for the historical record, and also, I think, to put additional pressure on Congress and potentially on Robert Mueller.

CAMEROTA: And are all 566 of you former federal prosecutors just complete liberal lefties?

HONIG: Yes, sure. No, we're prosecutors. Prosecutors are not known for being liberal lefties.

Look, the group crosses -- the group crosses partisan lines. I served half my time in DOJ under the Bush administration, half my time in DOJ under the Obama administration. I served for five years as Chris Christie, Republican governor's head of criminal justice in New Jersey.

So it has nothing to do with partisanship. There's people at all levels of the DOJ who signed this thing. There's people from virtually every state. It has nothing to do with partisanship. It has everything to do with the law.

BERMAN: Do you think Bill Barr cares about this letter of 500 and growing journal -- lawyers?

MILGRAM: I don't, but I do think it raises issues for the people in the U.S. attorney's offices right now. And so you're sitting there and you're looking at the head -- the head prosecutor in the country, basically doing something that -- where he says there's no evidence, which is completely contrary to the facts that we've all seen.

So you have the assistant U.S. attorneys and other folks in the office looking at the alumni of the office saying, "It's not right."

CAMEROTA: Guys, thank you --

BERMAN: Anne, Elie, John, thanks very much.

CAMEROTA: -- all very much.

BERMAN: maThe owner of Maximum Security, the horse that crossed the line first at the Kentucky Derby and was disqualified, has lost his first appeal. So what's the next move? A live report yet, next.

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