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HALA GORANI TONIGHT
U.S. Markets Dropped Sharply on Trade War Fears with China; In Search of The Truth About China's Muslim Detention Camps; Top Senate Republican Declares Mueller Report Case Closed; Showdown Escalates Between White House and Congress; Pompeo Abruptly Cancels Berlin Trip. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired May 7, 2019 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00] ROBYN CURNOW, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. Live from the CNN center here in Atlanta, I'm Robyn Curnow. We have tariff whiplash. Take a look
at these numbers. The DOW drops over 500 points and a renewed talk with a trade war with China.
While trade is on the agenda, the suffering of Muslims in China doesn't seem to be, CNN has traveled to China to see what is happening there
firsthand. Also U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo cancels a meeting with Germany amid a journey to an unknown destination.
So with just a couple of hours until the end of trading, U.S. markets are again plunging over ongoing trade war fears. This is the DOW right now.
The U.S. has accused China of back tracking on trade commitments as Donald Trump threatens to ramp up tariffs of hundreds of dollars worth of Chinese
goods. Beijing said it's still sending its top trade negotiate r to Washington. Talks are due to take place on Thursday. Watching all of this
is Richard Quest in New York. Have you got whiplash, Richard?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS, EDITOR-AT-LARGE: It is extraordinary the speed, Robyn, with which the sentiment in the market has reserved. Those
I've been talking to, when I was down there doing the express, we've had four months of extraordinarily good gains with the marketing coming up
about 15 percent to 20 percent.
And now all of a sudden, these comments by the President yesterday have soured the mood. And that's really what's happened. There's no evidence,
there's no reason, nothing is actually happened other than the threat has been made and the mood has soured. And that's going to take some changing.
I think barring some sudden announcement of a deal done, this is going to continue.
CURNOW: Why have markets now just decided to take Mr. Trump's tweets seriously? Just factoring in perhaps that this is perhaps not bluster?
QUEST: Right. Because they've risen so sharply. You can't -- there are two sides of exactly the same coin. The market has risen very sharply
since the December the 24th lows. With that in mind, you've got profits, you now fear the risk. Robyn, where is the risk at the moment? Is it on
the upside or is the risk on the downside? Well, you're probably neutral until the President says, I'm going to whack on more tariffs.
Then the risks on the downside, then you think, let's lock in some of those profits and more importantly let's not -- let's not put in any new money.
One other thing, once this selling starts, it feeds into itself.
CURNOW: You can see it.
QUEST: People say, I'm not jumping into the market yet, I'm not buying. Let's take Boeing today. Boeing is down 4 percent or something. It's at
$355 a share. People will say, where's this going? I want to buy Boeing, but I'll wait another three or five days and see if another 5 percent gets
CURNOW: Just to get into the fundamental question behind this. Mr. Trump and some of his administration suggesting that China has reneged on some
key points. Not clear what it is. Is there real concern about China pulling back from a key point or is this just another negotiation tactic?
QUEST: The key point that they've pulled back from was requirements to change Chinese domestic law on the issue of requiring joint ventures to
transfer technology. The Chinese have suddenly said, so we hear, that they're not prepared to make that change in the domestic law. They're
going to go ahead with it, but they won't shrine it. What the Chinese said overnight is, we will make these changes in law if they are right for us.
We will not make them be because you want us to. That's according to this morning's "New York Times" reporting on what the Chinese are saying. So a
stalemate is on the horizon and that is why you're seeing much -- look, two Trumps do not destroy a market. Two Trumps -- sorry, two tweets do not
destroy a market. Two tweets plus a Trump, plus sorry, the Chinese starting to get a bit stroppy, now you've got reasons for the market to
[14:05:00] CURNOW: That's your math equation of the day. Richard Quest, always good to see you. I know you'll be looking at all of this in the
coming hour. Thanks, my friend.
While the Trump administration certainly seems focused on trade with China, some say they should be pressuring Beijing about human rights. A month
ago, more than 40 U.S. lawmakers, both Democrats and Republicans, sent a letter to the administration urging them to take action on the treatment of
Muslims in western China. The U.S. says millions of people have been arrested and tossed into detection camps.
The only crime they've committed is being Muslim. CNN's Matt Rivers has traveled to central Asia searching for the truth. His report begins in
Kazakhstan where a family that's been torn apart for more than two years.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The bedroom hasn't changed since they left. Stuffed animals on the bed, their clothes in the closet.
Their grandmother won't change it. She says it still smells like them. The children left their home to go to China with their mother in 2017. She
grew up in China, so she went back for a short visit to see some family and take a few classes in northwest China. Her husband and young son stayed
home, but shortly after they arrived, she and her daughters disappeared because they went back at the wrong time.
This is the region where the U.S. says China has put up to 2 million people nearly all Muslim in detention camps over the last two years. Beijing has
done that to try to eliminate Islam within their borders. Detainees have told CNN they were tortured while undergoing political indoctrination.
Adeba and her family are Muslim, her husband says a relative told him his wife was put in such a camp while his daughters were sent to live with
distant relatives. He hasn't heard from any of them.
When he sees young women in the neighborhood, he calls them mama. He doesn't know what his own mother looks like. China says these camps aren't
prisons but voluntary vocational training centers that are being used to not eliminate Islam generally only Islamic extremism. The government had
linked to past terrorist attacks in the region. The government plays propaganda videos like this one on state run TV to show happy Muslims
They interview some who have been quote, reformed, steered away from a life of terrorism. But even if that's true, he says that still does not explain
why his wife was locked up.
My wife is not a terrorist, she says. She has nothing to do with it. I can't express with words how much pain I feel when I think of her there.
We asked Chinese authorities what happened to her, they did not reply to our question. So we went there ourselves to some of the most remote parts
of China, traveling thousands of miles in all. We went to six places, both to see what is happening here and in one town to try and find Adeba.
Ethnic Muslim minorities have lived here for centuries, culturally distinct from the Han Chinese who dominate the rest of the country. But now every
day they're forced to prove that they're not a threat to the state. Cameras watch their every move. While Chinese regularly breeze through the
police roadblocks, anyone we saw who appeared to be a minority got stopped. Racial profiling appears rampant.
But all that is still better for life than those that end up in places like this, detention camps designed for ethic minorities like this one. What
China calls a job training site, to us looked like a prison, high walls, barbed wires, tell-tale signs of detention centers. Images like this are
rare. Few people have seen camps like this up close because China's government tries to prevent reporters like us from seeing them a police
officer soon reminded us of that fact.
[14:10:00] This police officer does not want us to film. We believe that's a camp right there. This is as close as we're able to get. Right over
there we believe our are family members who could have family members inside this camp and they're waiting to see them.
China says it has nothing to hide here. But not only do they obstruct attempts to film, but also prevent us from speaking to those who know
anything about them. We tried to talk to this man who just brought food to his brother. Before we could ask about life inside, security surrounded us
and told the man to be quiet. There are camps like these all across the region. We took a train to the city of Turpan.
The minute after we arrived, the same kind of police harassment.
Can you tell me what that is? Is this something that you don't want us to see?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE POLICE OFFICER: Why are you here? You tell me. Why are you here?
RIVERS: We're here to film what we believe is a camp and for all ethic Muslim minorities.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE POLICE OFFICER: Who told you that?
RIVERS: She threatened to arrest us, so we had to leave. Our last stop is the town where Adeba's family says she's been detained. They can't leave
China because officials took away her passport. He has no way to contact her and fears he could end up in a camp himself, so we tried to find
Adeba's ourselves. Traffic police block our way and officials who has been following us, insist on a group dinner. We declined strongly, saying, no,
no, no, no. But in the end, we've got no choice. As Muslim minorities languish in camps far away, people dance and sing. We were unable to find
Adeba's and we couldn't deliver this message, our son and I have been waiting and will always wait for you. You are the love of my life. Matt
Rivers, CNN, China.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: Incredible message from Matt Rivers. Tomorrow we'll have more of Matt's travels. Just watch as he and his crew are met with tactics that
make it difficult to do their jobs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RIVERS: He and at least a dozen others followed us every single hour of our six-day trip. In the car, in the train station, in the hotel, in the
room next to mine.
It's an odd feeling to be in your hotel room at 1:00 in the morning and knowing on the other side of this connecting door, there's at least three,
four, other guys who have been following us around over the past couple of days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: OK. So be sure to watch Matt River's reporter's notebook from this extraordinary piece of coverage. That's on Wednesday at 6:00 in New
York, 6:00 a.m. on Thursday in Hong Kong only on CNN. Let's talk more about these Chinese reeducation camps and what the rest of the world can do
about it. Joining me is a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council.
His latest book on mankind's future is called "Hacking Darwin." I want to get your perspective on this report from matt rivers, bringing us these
pictures and this access that the CNN team managed to get is in itself is stunning.
JAMIE METZL, SENIOR FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL: It is. Listening to that story, hearing that letter, it's heartbreaking and people can see that
people in China and the Chinese government can see these Muslims as a threat. But that's just really unfortunate because these are suffering
people and they are being brutally oppressed by the Chinese government. They're being put in these camps. And their culture is under attack.
[14:15:00] There are reports of many mosques being destroyed. People are being forced to shave their beards. This is really serious and there's a
tremendous amount of suffering that is coming from these just really terrible and immoral policies of the Chinese government.
CURNOW: How many people do you think we're dealing with here who are affected?
METZL: The reports vary, but most people think it's somewhere between 1 and 2 million people are in these camps. And a camp is a camp. Matt's
report showed, you don't have barbed wire and these big watchtowers. People are being held in very unfortunate situations. Many people are
being tortured and the world really needs to speak up about this.
CURNOW: OK. So this is where this report comes in, but also then the question of why. Why does Beijing see these people and so many of these
people as threats? Why are they cracking down on religious ethnic minorities?
METZL: Chinese claims to be a multiethnic state, but there are these minority groups who are under brutal attack because China knows -- China is
a contiguous colonial state. And the areas of Tibet, there are some people who believe that these shouldn't even be part of China at all. And so
China fears that if Tibet culture grows, that at some point in the future, there could be cause for greater autonomy. The constitution allows for
greater autonomy for these minority groups, but there's so much fear of any kind of expression, of any kind of cultural awareness among these groups
that China has made a calculation that it's better to use forms of suppression than to live up to the commitments China made in its own
CURNOW: Let's talk about the commitments of the global community also the U.S. is America willing to turn a blind eye to the plight of these people
to get trade talks done, for example?
METZL: Certainly under the Trump administration, communications about human rights have been widely inconsistent. Once in a while the United
States mentions what's happening in the area, perhaps Tibet. But then there was a debate in the U.S. government and there was a decision not to
fully raise these issues in the context of the trade talks.
And it's very difficult for President Trump to say we're really concerned about these concentration camps in China when North Korea has absolutely
horrible, brutal concentration camps. And in all of the negotiations between Trump and Kim, that was never mentioned. The U.S. has had a strong
view on human rights and the more this administration can stand up for human rights the stronger America will be but the more we will help these
people who are suffering tremendously.
CURNOW: Is there a sense of pressure on President Xi internally and also externally? The pressures from the trade deal. How much is he being
squeezed and how much is this playing and overlapping in terms of the decisions being made in China?
METZL: Using brutal strategy is a better than a strategy of engagement with the Muslims. The key is that the international community needs to be
consistent and it needs to be sincere. We can't use these human rights issues as points of leverage in trade negotiations. These need to be --
these are very serious crimes that are being committed. They need to be raised. They need to be raised consistently. And if we can do that,
there's some really important work that needs to be done.
CURNOW: Jamie, always good to speak to you. Thanks for joining us here on CNN. Appreciate it.
Still to come, defied at every turn. Democrats may have finally had enough or have they? We'll see what they're planning amid a showdown with the
White House over access to the full Mueller report.
The U.S. Secretary of State abruptly skipped town this morning canceling a meeting with Germany's chancellor and leaving reporters in the dark. What
is Mike Pompeo up to? Where is he? That's next after a short break.
[14:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CURNOW: When the U.S. President Donald Trump said we're fighting all subpoenas, he wasn't kidding. A show down between his administration and
Congress is escalating today after the White House ignored yet another legal order. It instructed former White House Counsel Don McGahn not to
turn over documents related to the Russia probe. House members have also been stymied in attempts to get the full Mueller report from William Barr.
The top Senate Republican declared the investigation case closed, drawing a heated response from Democrats. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): The Democrats are angry. Angry that the facts disappointed them. Angry that our legal system will not magically
undo the 2016 election for them. And they've opted to channel all their partisan anger onto the Attorney General.
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): If any other human being in this country had done what's documented in the Mueller report, they would be arrested and
put in jail. The majority leader doesn't want us to consider the mountain of evidence against the President. That is wrong. He and his colleagues
have moved to protect the President instead of defending the constitution.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: Stephen Collinson says Democrats might as well declare the entire administration in contempt of Congress. You wrote that in a piece on
CNN.com. Good to see you from Washington. That's a pretty bold statement to make.
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: It seems that at every turn, as you say, the White House is defying Congress and it doesn't seem that it
has any sort of agreement that Congress has a role of oversight and investigation under the constitution. The White House has stopped many
officials testifying and telling them to ignore subpoenas.
The President himself is conducting private litigation against Congressional committees and several firms to stop the release of his
financial records and it's clear that the White House believes there's not a political price to pay for doing all this. It's likely that you're going
to have a number of officials declared in contempt of Congress by House committees. You're going to have legal fights going on in the courts for
But at the end of the day the question is, can Congress really control a President who's so unrestrained and willing to go across traditional
barriers and norms as Donald Trump.
CURNOW: As the White House resists these checks on its power, that it might actually work.
[14:25:00] COLLINSON: Yes, because if this goes into the courts as I suggested, this is going to take weeks and months and even potentially
years. There was a case in the previous administration whereby the Attorney General was found to be in contempt of Congress. I didn't really
have any impact on the -- on his ability to do the job day-to-day and the litigation that was lost in the end went on for years. After he left
office in the second term of the Obama administration.
So the Trump administration which is looking at its re-election race in 2020 is quite happy for this to go to the courts all the way up the pyramid
to the supreme court if necessary. Just the act of this taking place and the time it will take is actually politically helpful for the
administration. It won't have immediate defeats and it can devalue the power of the House majority.
CURNOW: One final question, you talk about factoring it in politically. Are they playing a game of chicken with Democrats and many in Congress,
perhaps guessing that there's not an appetite to make a political jump for them, to push it even further?
COLLINSON: It was interesting this morning the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said the President was goading the Democrats to impeach him. There's not
support for an impeachment drama. And we know that the Republican majority in the Senate would not convict the President and get rid of him if -- even
if he was impeached by the House Democrats. Democrats are worried about the long-term backlash of an impeachment process.
But at the end of the day if the White House is ignoring constitutional restraints, the question keeps coming up again and again, why will
Democrats not use the ultimate weapon, the constitutional weapon, that they have to rein in a President who appears to be running constitutional riot.
CURNOW: And of course, what do voters think of this and how does it factor into a decision come 2020. Always great to get your perspective. Thanks
for joining us.
We are waiting for clarity on a detour by the Secretary of State. Mike Pompeo was scheduled to meet with the German chancellor today, but he
abruptly canceled his trip to travel elsewhere. The media traveling with him were told not to say where they were going and they were warned they
might not be able to report deals until they were leaving the location. They were all told the secretary had, quote, pressing issues to deal with.
Well, we're still waiting to hear from the press pool traveling with the secretary. In the meantime Nic Robertson joins me now from London. This
is not normal. This is not common for a Secretary of State to go AWOL in the middle of an official trip and also walking out on the German
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, walking out on the German chancellor and having all those meetings. That's unusual.
Normal to restrict the press when he would fly into a potentially dangerous situation, potentially a war zone. That is normal. But we don't know
that's what is done. All we know is that he is canceled this meeting with the German chancellor and the chancellor has sort of fallen afoul of
President Trump's diplomacy, one could put it that way, on several occasions so far, refusals to handshakes, going off on a meeting of NATO
leaders last year.
For the Germans to be snubbed in this way after this treatment by the administration, really that is something very strong and unusual.
CURNOW: Yes, stood up, snubbed, dumped. We can come with all sorts of descriptions. But either way, while there may be that kind of messaging to
the Germans, there's been a lot of messaging with regard to Iran. You wonder if this is all playing into that.
ROBERTSON: One has to wonder what -- how Iran factors into this. What we've learned this afternoon is that Iran plans to announce tomorrow on the
anniversary, their first anniversary of when the United States pulled out of that joint nuclear deal with Iran, that Iran is going to announce it's
going to reduce its compliance, European countries have been straining with them, asking them not to do that, because if they do that, there's a
potential that the European countries will have to reapply sanctions.
The Iranians for their part have been saying that Europe isn't doing enough. The IEA says Iran is compliant with the nuclear deal so far. And
this is sort of seems to be getting to a crescendo point. They see the possibility of Iran increasing some threats to U.S. forces in the region.
You can see all of this is ratcheting up. Did that play into -- did that announcement by Iran play into secretary Pompeo's movements. And when we
find out where he's been, will all of that make more sense?
CURNOW: Yes. And the administration certainly seemed to be lining up, sort of strategic domino. What it is and how it all plays out, we'll see.
Thanks so much. Nic Robertson there providing us with the diplomatic analysis. Thanks, Nic.
So still to come tonight, joyous family reunions for two Reuters journalists after Myanmar freedom them from prison. What human rights
groups are saying about the journalists' newfound freedom? This is certainly great news.
Also, we're watching South Africa as the country prepares for critical elections on Wednesday. And we ask the question, why a large segment of
the country's politician may stay away from the polls 25 years after Mandela and the right to vote?
CURNOW: I'm Robyn Curnow. Thanks for joining us now.
We ask the question, a step towards democracy or dictatorship? Two different views of a historic election are shaping up in Turkey.
Here, you can see a small protest in Istanbul, after officials announced the city's last mayoral race. That race can put the opposition in office,
right in the heart of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's powerbase. His AK Party claimed fraud and asked for a new election and they got it.
So, if you don't like how an election turned out, can you just get a new one? Well, I want to bring in Soner Cagaptay, he's a Turkey specialist
with the institute -- the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. And author of the book, "The New Sultan: Erdogan and the Crisis of Modern
Turkey." Great to have you on the show.
SONER CAGAPTAY, TURKEY SPECIALIST, WASHINGTON INSTITUTE FOR NEAR EAST POLICY: It's a pleasure.
CURNOW: So there's an old Turkish saying, apparently, who wins Istanbul, wins Turkey. Is this a case of who wins Istanbul the second time around
hold on to Turkey?
CAGAPTAY: That's correct. This is Turkey's moneymaking machine. The city accounts for 30 percent of Turkey's economy, which is nearly $2.3 trillion
in size, measured according to current prices.
And it's also a place where you prove that you're an able politician. Remember, that Erdogan himself was an unknown figure in Turkey when he --
until he became Istanbul's mayor in 1994. A position from which he went to become Turkey's prime minister in 2003 and president in 2015.
Erdogan knows that opposition mayor-elect, Mr. Imamoglu, who won the race in Istanbul, if he stays in charge as Istanbul's mayor and he's proving
himself to be a capable politician, will rise using Istanbul to challenge Erdogan economically and politically, and therefore he wants to nip this
challenge in the bud and therefore has decided to ask the election board to cancel the outcome of the March 31st elections.
CURNOW: So, what are the chances of the same result happening again?
[14:35:02] CAGAPTAY: Very similar because opposition in Turkey is resilient. Despite the fact that Mr. Erdogan controls over 90 percent of
the media and taking into account that there are, literally, no more independent institutions.
The election board, for instance, decided to cancel this sambal vote less than 48 hours after Mr. Erdogan demanded that. Despite this insurmountable
odds, the opposition was able to eke out a victory with a narrow margin and I think we'll see a similarly competitive race. But at the same time, of
course, Mr. Erdogan really holds the ability to even further suppress democratic rights and liberties.
And I think, it is fair to say that unfortunately, the next race will be neither free nor fair given the deteriorating democratic conditions in the
country in recent years.
CURNOW: So either way, the result goes. What happens next?
CAGAPTAY: What happens next is, unfortunately, Turkey's domestic crisis is only exacerbated. As I highlight in my book, "The New Sultan," Mr. Erdogan
is both a loved and hated political figure at the same time. I consider him to be the prototype of 21st century populist leaders. He demonizes,
cracks down on base -- and brutalizes demographics that are unlikely to vote for him and that has earned him a loyal base of conservative followers
who simply adore him.
But also, the groups that he has demonized, simply loathe him and there is no space in the middle and I think the election results show that Turkey
split 50-50 in the middle.
Yes, Mr. Erdogan's candidate might win the election by a narrow margin, but it will not address Turkey's crisis in any way or form.
I had written a piece just after the elections for The Washington Post arguing that maybe he should become a unifying leader again, because he has
lost his magic touch.
When he came to power in 2003, he was a forward-looking leader. Whether or not you would agree with his vision, he had a forward-looking vision for
Turkey. Not anymore. He needs to reinvent himself and I think that will be his challenge going forward.
CURNOW: As we know, all politics is personal and Istanbul as you've mentioned, is personal for Mr. Erdogan. What do people in Istanbul have to
say about this?
CAGAPTAY: It is indeed. I mean, this is the city of his birth and his political rise. But it's also a city that generates a huge amount of rent.
It wheels -- oils the wheels of Mr. Erdogan's political machine. And therefore, I think he does not want to lose it. The population in
Istanbul, the majority of them voted against him in this election.
And not only that, in five out of Turkey's six biggest cities, Mr. Erdogan's party lost the mayoral race on March 31st. Put together the
provinces that he lost represent three quarters of Turkey's economy and over half of Turkey's population. And I think what we have seen, of
course, is probably the greatest distortion of Turkey's democracy since 1950 when Turkey had its first free and fair elections.
Consensus was formed since 1950, gradually, that political power in Turkey changes hands through the ballot box and that the loser, and everybody
accepts the election. Whatever that outcome is.
Cancelling the election Istanbul and going for a revote is the greatest distortion of that consensus. I think it takes a long time to build
democracies and it's very sad for Turkish people and Turkish democracy that 70 years of gains of this hard-earned consensus is now being thrown away.
CURNOW: Soner Cagaptay, thanks so much for your perspective.
CAGAPTAY: Thank you.
CURNOW: The author of a fantastic book called "The New Sultan." Thanks so much for your perspective. Thanks.
OK. So Myanmar has freed two Pulitzer Prize winning Reuters' journalists. They spent more than a year in prison reporting on a massacre of Rohingya
Now, Myanmar's de facto leader, Aung San Suu Kyi, had received heavy, heavy criticism for their jailing.
Well, Ivan Watson has more on this very surprising and happy turn of events.
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Families reunited.
Award-winning journalist, Wa Lone, embraces his only child, born during his year and a half ordeal behind bars. The two journalists, Wa Lone and Kyaw
Soe Oo, emerged unexpectedly from a Yangon prison on Tuesday, set free by a presidential pardon that also released more than 6,500 other prisoners.
The reporters long walk to freedom coming after more than 500 days in jail.
WA LONE, FREED REUTERS JOURNALIST: I would like to say thank you very much for everything. I'm really happy and excited to see my family and my
colleagues. And I can't wait to go to my newsroom now.
WATSON: Human rights groups and fellow journalists lobbied for months for this release. The move applauded by the head of the Reuters news agency.
STEVE ADLER, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, REUTERS: Since their arrest, 511 days ago, they have become symbols of the importance of press freedom around the
world. We welcome their return.
[14:40:01] WATSON: Authorities in Myanmar first arrested the two reporters in December 2017 after they met with a police source, who handed them
documents. Both were sentenced to seven years in prison for a possession of state secrets. Reuters claims it was a setup.
STEVEN BUTLER, COMMITTEE TO PROTECT JOURNALISTS: The so-called state secrets were planted on them at a dinner that they had with police. Not
just to shut down their reporting, but to scare other journalists.
WATSON: Months after their arrest, Reuters published the result of their bombshell investigation. It contained testimony linking Myanmar's security
forces to the execution of these 10 Rohingya Muslim men and their burial in a mass grave, as well as the torching of Rohingya homes.
BUTLER: Well, they helped prove that there were, in fact, massacres of innocent Rohingya in the Rakhine state.
WATSON: Seven soldiers were convicted for the killings, but the Myanmar government denies United Nation's accusations that the mass exodus of more
than 700,000 Rohingyas across the border to Bangladesh amounts to genocide.
The brave work of Wa Lone and Kyaw Soe Oo, blew holes in those denials, making them heroes for journalists and human rights activists around the
Ivan Watson, CNN.
CURNOW: Thanks, Ivan, for that piece.
Now to South Africa, where critical elections are taking place on Wednesday, 25 years after party's in the birth of democracy, is who may not
vote that is raising concerns. Voter apathy and frustration are rife as, President Cyril Ramaphosa, struggles to clean up years of corruption under
the previous president, Jacob Zuma.
Well, David McKenzie joins me now from Johannesburg. Hi, David.
So in a country that fought so hard for the right to vote, you didn't actually have to go far, did you? To find young people who wouldn't be
voting, why is that?
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right. And in many countries, there's some apathy amongst the young in voting. But
South Africa is a special case. For decades, their parents fought, and many of them died, against the racist apartheid regime to just allow them
to have the vote.
And since 1994, there has been democracy in South Africa, but many young South Africans appeared to be turning their back on democracy entirely.
MCKENZIE (voice-over): Maki Mathebula (ph) says she never depended on anyone to survive except herself. She makes themselves atchar, a kind of
All along, their street, parties, and politicians are vying for the Mathebula family vote.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People who are in charge now, they're just making things risk --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The politicians, they get rich. Us, we get poorer. There is nothing good for us.
MCKENZIE: Nelson Mandela represented the possibilities of a free South Africa. Voting lines stretched for blocks in 1994, the first democratic
election held the promise of a better future.
Now, millions are born free, South African's born after the apartheid regime ended haven't even registered to vote in this election.
MCKENZIE (on-camera): Are you going to vote?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hell no.
MCKENZIE (voice-over): Twenty-five years on and around half of young people are jobless. Much of the black majority is stuck in a poverty trap.
Kept there in part by a rampant government corruption. By some estimates, South Africa has become the most unequal nation on earth.
WILSON MNENBE, DESIGNER: No, I'm not going to vote.
MCKENZIE (on-camera): Why not?
MNENBE: I've survived without voting, man.
MCKENZIE (voice-over): Young South Africans lie designer, Wilson Mnenbe, didn't see apartheid firsthand.
MNENBE: OK. Just shake it off.
MCKENZIE: Their struggles are with the new South Africa.
MNENBE: As a born free, maybe we were promised mansions. I don't know that.
MCKENZIE (on-camera): Do you have a mansion?
MNENBE: I don't have a mansion.
MCKENZIE: And are you voting this year?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. Since I was born, I voted (INAUDIBLE) in normal voting again.
MCKENZIE: And until they see real change in Alex (ph), the Mathebulas will never cast another ballot.
CURNOW: Well, David, I mean, I remember voting in that 1994 election. I mean, it was just electric.
So the fact that you're reporting that people don't want to vote, that they moved on, essentially from that opportunity is startling. And you rightly
point out, it's also about inequality, and its stock. Not far from where you are in the (INAUDIBLE)
MCKENZIE: No, you can go from fancy shops and Starbucks into really desperate squalor in walking distance from each other, as you saw from
those images, Robyn.
And, yes, the electrifying days of '94 and even the elections post that have faded somewhat. And much of it, I think is because of the
disaffection with the ruling party and just government and parties, in general. Not fulfilling the promises of democracy and that inequality,
that gap between the rich and the poor just seems to have grown wider, and the anger grown more intense over the years.
[14:45:19] This election will be critical, because we will see if we see an insurgent left party, which ones who pushed its appropriation without
compensation of land and nationalizing companies that has really seen popularity amongst the urban poor rise in its numbers.
Now, that's something both reflected in global trends and specific to South Africa. This election is critically important, even if many young people
are turning their backs on the vote. Robyn?
CURNOW: Yes. And it's also about electricity and basic services that are affecting everybody. We're going to talk about that tomorrow. You're
going to be there on the ground. Thanks so much for that great report. David McKenzie in Johannesburg.
And don't forget, you can get all the latest news and interviews and analysis from me online. Head to my Instagram, robyncurnowcnn. It's all
Meanwhile, I do want to take you to New York. Take a look at these numbers. The Dow has been hovering around 600 -- down 600 points. It's
certainly been an afternoon of heavy losses and if the markets end over 600 points, it could -- if they finish the day at this level, it could be the
second worst trading day of the year.
We know that the worst day of this year was on January the 3rd when the Dow fell 660 points.
Now, why are these numbers doing this? Well, it's all on ongoing trade war fears. The U.S. has accused China of backtracking on trade commitments.
Donald Trump is threatening to ramp up tariffs on hundreds of dollars' worth of Chinese goods. There's some optimism, some cautious optimism.
Perhaps we're seeing that in some of these numbers maybe pulling back from 600, but we're going to continue to monitor the Dow throughout the next
hour or so. Richard Quest is up soon.
Meanwhile, still to come tonight, it is considered one of the biggest threats to democracy, an issue the European Union certainly isn't taking
lightly. We'll bring you details on the E.U.'s plans to combat this breed of fake news ahead of the European elections. That's next.
CURNOW: When it comes to Brexit, it seems lots and lots of people certainly have regrets. Well, the latest to air theirs, Jean-Claude
Juncker, the European Commission president says Brussels should have intervened in the U.K.'s 2016 E.U. referendum.
Then-Prime Minister, David Cameron, asked the E.U. not to meddle in British politics. Well, Juncker now says he regrets following that request. Take
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEAN-CLAUDE JUNCKER, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN COMMISSION: The second mistake I made was to listen too carefully to the British government, Cameron.
Because then-prime minister asked me not to interfere, not to intervene in the referendum campaign.
[14:50:12] It was a mistake not to intervene and not to interfere, because we would have been the only ones to destroy the lies, which were circulated
around. I was wrong to be silent at an important moment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: Strong words there from the European Commission president.
Meanwhile, it's been confirmed the U.K. will now take part in upcoming European elections on May 23rd with Brexit still at an impasse and no-
agreement in sight. They simply have no choice. And with those elections looming, it's not just Brexit the E.U. has to worry about. One of its
biggest concerns is fake news. Here's CNN's Simon Cullen with more.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
SIMON CULLEN, CNN FIELD PRODUCER (voice-over): Right across Europe, the election campaign is underway.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's fight back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We can win these elections.
CULLEN: The European Parliamentary election is the world's second largest Democratic vote, second only to India. Across the E.U.'s 28 countries,
more than 360 million people are eligible to take part.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot is at stake right now in Europe.
CULLEN: For months, European officials have been warning of the risks of fake news, urging tech companies to do more to combat the spread of
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can't afford to wake up the day after elections and find that we could and should have done more.
CULLEN: Twitter, Facebook, and Google all say they are taking the issue of fake news very seriously. And then put in place, strict the rules to try
to prevent foreign interference. During the campaign, political advertisers must prove they live within the European Union. All ads must be
accompanied by a clear label to show who paid for it and all three companies say political ads will be stored in a searchable archive to
JOHANNES BAHRKE, EUROPEAN COMMISSION SPOKESMAN: That forms have come a long way, it's now clear for users what is political advertisement and what
is not, it was not the case before.
CULLEN: Twitter has now rolled out a new feature to make it easier to report people who share wrong information about how to vote. And Facebook
has expanded its fact checking network, which will rate the accuracy of material on its platform.
CHARLIE BECKETT, FOUNDING DIRECTOR, POLIS: Social networks are waking up belatedly. They are trying to help, they're trying to give people signs.
CULLEN: A much harder issue to deal with though is that of fake accounts, which can spread up quickly and amplify false and misleading information.
Following the U.S. election and Brexit referendum, the social media giants have faced growing scrutiny over how that platforms have been manipulated
Even Facebook acknowledges there are limits to what it can doom.
MARK ZUCKERBERG, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, FACEBOOK: I don't think anyone can guarantee in a world where you have nation states that are trying to
interfere in elections. There's no single thing that we can do and say, OK, we've now solved the issue.
BECKETT: There is going to be a storm of quite horrible and provocative messaging across the continent.
CULLEN: A political environment in which facts matter more than ever.
Simon Cullen, CNN London.
CURNOW: You're indeed watching CNN.
More to come. Stay with us.
[14:55:57] CURNOW: Yes. The royal baby is here, you know that. But the newest member of the family is being coy. The name of the Duke and Duchess
of Sussex' first born is still a guessing game. Ruled at it still, yes. And he's yet to be revealed -- and is yet to be revealed to the world.
Even if it seems some family members, Prince Charles hasn't met his grandson. And new Uncle Prince William certainly hasn't seen his nephew
either. However, he did have a message for brother, Harry, and that's don't expect to get much sleep.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRINCE WILLIAM, ROYAL KNIGHT OF THE GARTER: I'm looking forward to see them in the next few days, when he's quieted down. I'm very pleased and
glad to welcome my own brother to the sleep deprivation society that is parenting. So, yes, that'll be it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: No, we know about that, Max, don't we? Max Foster joins us now of the sleep deprivation society. Or it seems like we don't have Max. There
you are. I'm talking to myself, you'd think I had a newborn. Max?
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Exactly.
CURNOW: There we go. So Prince Charles, Prince William haven't met the little guy yet.
FOSTER: No. So Prince Charles is on a very important visit to Germany. He's meeting --Prince Charles did a big speech today, so he was there. But
he spoke briefly, gave a quote saying effectively, that he's very much looking forward to coming back to meet his new grandson here in Windsor.
We also heard from Prince William as well talking there, as you can see and also the Duchess of Cambridge as well. It was all about the wider family
getting involved here and giving their congratulations.
We're looking ahead to the pictures tomorrow, of course, Robyn, where we get to see the new family for the very first time.
CURNOW: And maybe we'll get a name. Maybe not.
FOSTER: We could get a name. Betting. You know, we've been talking a bit about the betting today. We've talked about Alexander, Arthur, James,
Albert. Spencer is another one people have been betting on. It's all speculation.
But Spencer is one that always comes up, actually. It's been like Diana, if it's a girl, because people always refer back to Diana and Prince Harry,
you know, resembles her in many ways, follows with a lot of her work. And I think she looms large in any royal story.
But when they come out to the cameras tomorrow, it'll be interesting to hear from the duchess as well. We're expecting her to say a few words.
And, of course, especially, you know, whether this baby takes after mom or dad. These are the little thing we'll be analyzing these times more,
Robyn. It'll be interesting to see those pictures. There'll be video and also be still pictures and a few answers to a few questions from an agency
CURNOW: Excellent. So we will be talking tomorrow. Max Foster, great stuff. Enjoy the evening in Windsor. Keep warm.
OK. So thanks so much for watching. We're just one hour of trading left in the U.S. stock markets. We are watching the Dow. It is sharply low.
Take a look at those numbers. It's all down, of course, to economic tensions between the U.S. and china.
And, of course, Richard Quest will be all over that. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" has more after the break. Thanks for joining me. I'm Robyn