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U.S. Tariffs Rise on Chinese Imports; North Korea Threat; U.S.- Iran Tensions; President Trump to Nominate U.S. Defense Secretary; Crisis in Venezuela. Aired 2-3a ET
Aired May 10, 2019 - 02:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[02:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NATALIE ALLEN, CNN ANCHOR: Beijing vows to retaliate after the U.S. more than doubles tariffs on China, sharply escalating the countries' trade war.
GEORGE HOWELL, CNN ANCHOR: The United States for the first time has seized the North Korean coal ship over alleged sanction violations and more missile tests by the regime.
ALLEN: Also, the former head of the FBI tells CNN it appears President Trump obstructed justice and would have been charged if he were not a sitting president.
We will get all in to these stories this hour. Hello, everyone. Welcome to our viewers joining us wherever in the world. I'm Natalie Allen.
HOWELL: I'm George Howell from CNN world headquarters. "Newsroom" starts now.
ALLEN: Thank you again for joining us. Our top story, the threat of an all-out trade war is much greater now than just few hours ago. A midnight deadline to strike a trade deal has come and gone. U.S. tariffs on $200 billion dollars of Chinese imports have now risen from 10 to 25 percent.
HOWELL: China's commerce ministry expressed deep regret at the move and promises to take necessary countermeasures. But it also says that it hopes United States will meet China halfway in resolving the outstanding issue. Both delegations meet again on Friday.
ALLEN: And if they cannot strike a deal, Mr. Trump says he is prepared to impose 25 percent tariffs as we mentioned on an additional $325 billion of Chinese goods: electronics, toys and other consumer products.
HOWELL: Let's take a look now at the numbers right now at the Asia financial markets. The results mixed so far. The Nikkei is down but the Hang Seng up, and the Shanghai Composite up. Also in the United States, the Dow futures right now, lower.
Let's go to CNN's Steven Jiang, following the story. Steven is live in the Chinese capital. Steven, with the deadline now passed, we are still kind of in this waiting, this holding pattern. Have you heard any sort of reaction of possible countermeasures in China?
STEVEN JIANG, CNN SENIOR PRODUCER: George, the commerce ministry statement you mentioned actually acknowledged the fact that the higher new U.S. tariffs have kicked to end. So that's really the likely reality right now. that statement of course mentioned that China will now have no choice but to retaliate as you mentioned.
That statement also acknowledged the ongoing trade talks in Washington saying the government here still hopes to resolve all these issues through cooperation and consultation. It's not really surprising that the deadline passed without some sort of breakthrough because the negotiators really didn't have that much time. They literally had a few hours before the deadline hit.
The two sides were very much apart as of Thursday with the Americans of course accusing the Chinese of walking back on previously agreed commitments on numerous key issues of U.S. concerns. We are talking about intellectual property theft, market access for U.S. firms, and most importantly enforcement mechanisms in any new final deal.
And the Chinese in the past few days of course have been pushing back such claim saying it was the Americans who actually made unreasonable demand that would harm China's core national interest.
So Mr. Trump himself has acknowledged the difficulty in these talks but he also suggested that he could call Mr. Xi Jinping, the Chinese president, and I think that is probably the best case scenario now for the two presidents to talk on the phone, to work out some sort of last-minute deal.
As of now, the Chinese are very resolute in saying they are going to launch these countermeasures but without offering much detail. George?
HOWELL: Steven, to that point, the U.S. president does rely heavily on those personal relationships with his counterparts. Again, is there a sense that there is a feeling that that might be the route to go, given the deadline has passed and it seems the tension is just moving forward?
JIANG: That's certainly a possibility. Now, you know, some analysts have said that the reason both sides have arrived to where we are is probably both leaders became too confident, a little overconfident about their position on negotiation because on paper at least both economies have been doing well, especially in the U.S. The economy has been going from strength to strength based on GDP and job numbers. Here in China as well, the first quarter GDP growth was better than expected.
But the irony of this, of course, part of that is because investors and consumers were expecting a trade deal will be released very soon. And now that is going in serious doubt. Things could change very quickly. Now, one interesting note, George, is how the Chinese state media has been preparing the public here for an escalation of this trade war. [02:05:004] In the past few days, they have been really touting the strength and resilience of this economy here. starting on Thursday, they also became a bit more nationalistic saying how the Chinese are no stranger to fighting their enemies while negotiating with them, even evoking memories of the Chinese-U.S. military conflicts during the Korean war. George?
HOWELL: Steven Jiang is following the story live for us in Beijing. Steven, thank you. Now, let's get some context with Simon Baptist. Simon is the chief economist at The Economist Intelligence Unit. He is joining us this hour from Singapore. Good to have you.
SIMON BAPTIST, CHIEF ECONOMIST, THE ECONOMIST INTELLIGENCE UNIT: Good to be here.
HOWELL: So, we're looking here at a game of high stakes poker and what it means for the American consumer at the very least is that goods from China will cause more. It also means that both countries will buy less from each other and as we've seen here in the United States, farmers have already been hit hard. Can there really be a winner Out of all of this as tensions do seem to be escalating?
BAPTIST: It certainly is lose-lose situation that we are heading into here. Unfortunately it does look like both sides are starting to dig their heels somewhat. We've seen in recent days President Xi Jinping starting to increase his rhetoric around the strength of the Chinese state and their willingness to hold firm against foreign adversaries.
On the other hand, we've also had the rhetoric from the White House. I think both leaders, Donald Trump and Xi Jinping, we have two leaders who are both willing to sacrifice quite a lot of economic efficiencies or productivity in order to meet their goals of nationalism and certainly not to be seemed to be backing down.
So, I do expect these trade tensions to continue for some time. And as you say, in the U.S. side, it's the agricultural sector as well as Boeing who are the sectors that are most at risk. Whereas in China, it is more the manufacturing sector particularly electronics and other sectors like furniture motor vehicle parts.
HOWELL: To that point, the places that will feel this the most, mainly the red states, states where people voted heavily for the U.S. president, the Trump country. So with tariffs increasing from 10 to 25 percent on $200 billion dollars of goods, has President Trump in a way back himself into a corner heading into the 2020 election?
BAPTIST: There's already tariff of 10 percent on all these goods already and the base case (ph) of The Economist Intelligence Unit has always been that those 10% tariffs are going to continue. So what we've seen recently as well as an hour or two ago is those 10 percent tariffs have gone up. So they are not new tariffs but they are increase in existing rate.
And so we already have some idea of how the pain (ph) from those is going to fall. At the moment in the United States, the hottest hit states certainly are the Midwest, particularly those that are focused on soybeans.
Now, the U.S. government has put in some assistance packages to those farmers. One risk that I have in this -- I'm worried about in this situation is actually this U.S.-China trade war turning into a global trade war.
Agriculture is a very sensitive segment sector for many countries. If U.S. government keeps increasing the support it gives to U.S. farmers, then you might start seeing some reactions from the other big agricultural producers like Canada, E.U., Brazil or Australia who are not going to be happy to see U.S. farmers getting subsidized because of Chinese tariffs.
When they sort of feel that they are really just by standards (ph) in this dispute, they are going to start to be more negatively affected. If they start retaliating, that makes this go global, and that's when I think markets and the world economy has to get worried.
HOWELL: OK. Look, we are talking about trade in this case between the U.S. and China but there is also the military rivalry between the two nations. As we've seen in the South China Sea, there is an ongoing competition for influence around the world. How would you say this trade dispute impacts the greater relationship between these two countries?
BAPTIST: I think actually the causality goes the other way which is it's the broad tensions (ph) of the fundamental and the trade dispute is just one manifestation of that. It has been certainly hitting the headlines. But in some ways, it's the more short term or more superficial element of the standoff between the U.S. and China. We can buy more or less soybeans and pay more or less and sort of readjust supply chains.
But really, this is about a new round of great power competition. Who is going to control the technologies or the fourth (ph) industrial revolution that have not just manufacturing applications but also military and strategic applications as well?
[02:10:01] I think there was a period, sort of 393 to 3,000 where the Europe and North America and their allies were hoping. And I think for a period particularly in the aftermath of Deng Xiaoping, there was a realistic chance that China was -- could have joined the existing international alliance in a less confrontational way but certainly now that prospect seems to have gone and tensions between the west and China, I think, are going to be very difficult for a long time.
Company from the country doing business in the other sphere of influence, certainly be getting my contingency plans ready with the expectation of a sustained period of difficulties.
HOWELL: Simon Baptist, we appreciate your time. Thank you.
ALLEN: Now we turn to the tensions between North Korea and the U.S. The U.S. Justice Department saying they have seized a North Korean cargo ship for violating sanctions. The United States claims North Korea used this ship to sell coal to China and other countries in order to fund its nuclear weapons program.
HOWELL: And the Justice Department says North Korea paid for the ships maintenance with U.S. money through unwitting U.S. banks. Officials stressed that the ship seizure has nothing to do with the stalled talks between the U.S. president and the North Korean leader and aren't related to the North Korean missile launches on Thursday.
ALLEN: Let's talk more about it with Ivan Watson. He is in Hong Kong, live for us. Ivan, first of all, what is the reaction from the region to this incident?
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Japanese Defence Ministry, Natalie, has called North Korea's short range ballistic missile launches on Thursday a violation of the United Nation Security Council resolution. South Korea has said that they don't think it's necessarily in violation of recent rounds of peace talks between the north and south, not in violation of the agreement, but it is against the spirit of that agreement.
We've just heard a statement coming from the South Korean Foreign Ministry where the foreign minister has been meeting in Seoul with the U.S.'s envoy to the Korean peninsula, Stephen Biegun, and they were paraphrasing Biegun himself, saying that the door for a return to negotiation with North Korea is still open, not despite now missiles being launched twice on two separate occasions in the span of less than a week.
And what the South Korean president has said is clearly a signal from Pyongyang that it is not happy with where things are at since the failure to come to some kind of agreement last February in Hanoi when President Trump and Kim Jong-un met last face-to-face.
ALLEN: Right. These missile launches happened and then we have the seizure of the ship which United States says is not related. And what's interesting is that Kim Jong-un has said he expected another summit by the end of the year. We know that these countries are far apart as far as what they believe in, but we've got Kim Jong-un and President Trump acting like they have a relationship. The question is, where might that relationship be now?
WATSON: Yeah. Let's go straight to the source here. Let's take a listen to what President Trump had to say when asked about these most recent two North Korean missile launches. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Nobody is happy about it. We are taking a good look, and we will see. We will see. The relationship continues, but we'll see what happens. I know they want to negotiate. They are talking about negotiating, but I don't think they are ready to negotiate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON: So there you go. I mean, what the North Koreans and President Trump have been very careful to do is they let their aides and deputies criticize each other, but they haven't directly slammed each other the way they used to, when they used to hurl insults at each other before the first historic meeting of these two leaders.
So President Trump has continued to be very respectful of Kim Jong-un himself. Just a couple weeks ago, the North Koreans were demanding that Secretary of State Pompeo be removed from any negotiations having to do with North Korea but they've withheld that kind of criticism directly from President Trump himself.
That said, the North Koreans put out images of how Kim Jong-un personally oversaw and ordered the launches of these two short range ballistic missiles on Thursday. They are signalling. There is a kind of saber rattling underway here between the missile launches and the recent U.S. seizure of this North Korean cargo ship.
[02:15:00] Natalie?
ALLEN: All right. Ivan Watson for us in Hong Kong with the latest. Ivan, thank you. Later this hour, I will speak with international editor Kenneth Toy (ph) about the growing rift between the U.S. president and the North Korean leader and how likely it is they can come to agreement on anything.
HOWELL: Now, to the ongoing tensions between the United States and Iran, which is still escalating, the U.S. secretary of state says America doesn't seek war with the country but says it is ready to defend itself in the event of an attack.
ALLEN: And this comes after an American carrier strike group reached the Red Sea on Thursday. It was deployed to the region in response to what the national security adviser calls troubling --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I don't want to say no, but hopefully that won't happen. We have one of the most powerful ships in the world that is loaded up. We don't have to do anything. What I'd like to see with Iran, I'd like to see them call me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOWELL: CNN's Barbara Starr has been following the developments and has more now from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: U.S. officials are telling CNN, so far there is no indication, no intelligence that the Iranians have backed off. There is still very much a sense that Iran and Iranian forces are preparing, planning if you will, for a possible attack against U.S. forces in the Middle East region.
Everything appears to be status quo in terms of the fact that Iranian forces are still out there. No indications of an imminent attack but a couple of things are being watched very carefully. Those boats in the Persian Gulf with missiles on board are still very much out there. There are also threats that are continuing against U.S. bases U.S. airfields in the region. All of that is being watched. The key question now is who is really behind this in terms of the militias or the Iranian central government?
The U.S. does not believe that the Iranian-backed militias, the proxy forces that Iran denies a connection to, it doesn't believe that those forces are going rogue, but are the Iranian central government officials really behind it, really telling the militias that the range (ph) are off, that they can attack the U.S. if they want to?
The State Department is issuing very strongly-worded language, warning Iran not to even try it, warning them once again that the U.S. now with an aircraft carrier in the region and B-52 bombers would respond with very significant deadly force if the Iranians were to decide to launch an attack and to carry one out.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOWELL: In the meantime, the White House has announced President Trump's pick for secretary of defense. Mr. Trump says he intends to nominate Patrick Shanahan, the acting defense chief, to that position.
ALLEN: Shanahan says he is honored to be chosen. He was recently cleared of allegations that he violated ethics agreements by promoting the interests of his former employer, Boeing. He now faces a Senate confirmation hearing.
HOWELL: Still ahead, Venezuela braces for another weekend of anti- government protests but the opposition-led movement appears to be losing steam. It appears crackdown on dissent (ph) could be the reason behind.
[02:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOWELL: In Venezuela, the National Assembly leader, Juan Guaido, was calling for a new round of anti-government protest to play out this weekend. It comes days after members of the opposition-controlled assembly were stripped of their immunity by the Supreme Court.
ALLEN: One of those members has requested protection from the embassy of Argentina. Richard Blanco is reportedly holed up inside the building in Caracas. He is one of several members accused of conspiracy and civil rebellion. On Wednesday, intelligence officers arrested the assembly's vice president. The Venezuelan government isn't just cracking down on legislators. It is also targeting demonstrators.
HOWELL: That is right. CNN's Paula Newton recently spoke with the mother of one protester who was forced to leave that country fearing for his life. Here is the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From hundreds of thousands of opposition protesters in the streets in January to tens of thousands weeks later, to just hundreds now, this is the Maduro government's definition of success.
ALFREDO ROMERO, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, FORO PENAL VENEZOLANO: The most important capital that the government or that the regime, the Maduro's regime has, is repression, political repression. Actually they are being -- I have to say it, they have been very effective using political repression.
NEWTON (voice-over): The world watched as a stark message was sent to protesters. Maduro's forces would not tolerate dissent. Human rights activists say they are being backed up by an unprecedented police crackdown.
Maria Eugenia Vargas says police would not stop harassing her son, detaining him, warning him to never take to the streets again.
"Four times, they came for him," she says. "And the last time, they told me, we will come here to kill him if we ever see any trouble again."
Fearing for his life, her son, Jorge, escaped Venezuela with just the shirt on his back a few weeks ago, hoping for asylum in another country. Heartbroken, she only speaks to him by phone. Venezuela is no longer safe.
"The last time they had him," she tells me, "I kept thinking don't kill him." She says protesters aren't tired or hopeless but scared.
(On camera): Stories like Jorge's have been common in neighborhoods like this. The repression has always been cunning, but in recent months, it has become ever more crude.
(voice-over): Fires (ph) in elite well-armed swat force have taken up residents in poor areas in recent weeks, peering down even on commuters, a reminder that they are watching.
And President Nicolas Maduro has warned that civil unrest and traders will not, in his words, go unpunished, that justice will be served.
In the days following the failed opposition uprising, we saw national police investigators follow up on his words, collecting evidence on protesters and damage.
ROMERO: They always recognize at some point --
NEWTON (voice-over): Human rights groups claim there is a revolving door of political prisoners who are tortured and interrogated at police and intelligence black sites.
ROMERO: Ask yourself. If you're a poor person, you protest, and you're being taken into that place, of course your neighbor, your friends, your family members will never protest again.
NEWTON (voice-over): At risk now, Juan Guaido's "Operation Freedom," amid (ph) fierce and growing crackdown, the opposition leader may lack the people power who says he needs to overthrow Maduro.
Paula Newton, CNN, Caracas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ALLEN: Well, at its height, the ISIS state was the size of Britain before the bloody fall of its last strong fold in Eastern Syria.
[02:25:03] CNN's Ben Wedeman was there.
HOWELL: Ben and his team, they watch the exodus of tens of thousands of people during a fierce battle to end the ISIS caliphate. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We were going to go forward to an area closer to where the ISIS (INAUDIBLE) but because of this fighting, apparently a battle has broken out a new one. We were actually on our way to go to a part of the ISIS camp on the edge of Baghouz (ph) that had been liberated by the Syrian Democratic forces.
We can hear a lot of gunfire here. The SDF was taking a couple of journalists at a time in and ironically we were the last ones to go in and all hell broke loose.
(GUNFIRE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOWELL: You'll want to watch Ben's full report, a CNN special, "Final Days of the Caliphate." It starts Saturday at 6:30 a.m. in London, 1:30 p.m. in Hong Kong, only here on CNN.
ALLEN: And ahead here right now, families are desperate for answers. They say their relatives are being held in China, part of a crackdown on Muslims.
HOWELL: Plus, exactly two years after he was fired by the U.S. president, the former FBI director, James Comey, answers questions from the public. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOWELL: Welcome back to our viewers around the world. You're watching "CNN Newsroom." I'm George Howell.
ALLEN: And I'm Natalie Allen. Thanks for being with us. Our top stories this hour, U.S. tariffs on Chinese imports have more than doubled in the past two hours. A midnight deadline for trade deal passed without an agreement triggering a rise in tariffs to 25 percent. If the two sides don't strike a deal, the U.S. is threatening 25 percent tariffs on an additional $325 billion, this time on consumer goods from China. Trade negotiators are to meet again in Washington Friday.
HOWELL: An American carrier strike group has reached the Red Sea during an ongoing tension with Iran. It was deployed in response to what the U.S. says is a possible threat.
[02:30:00] The defense officials says the USS Abraham Lincoln passes the Suez Canal and is now in position to defend American forces in that area.
ALLEN: The U.S. Justice Department says it has seized a North Korea cargo ship that was used to violate sanctions. Officially say North Korea transported coal to China and other countries and use the profits to fund its nuclear weapons and missile programs. The U.S. says the seizure has nothing to do with North Korea's latest missile test this past week.
Let's talk more about it with Kenneth Choi, the international editor for Chosun Ilbo. One of South Korea's major newspaper. He joins me now from Seoul. Kenneth, thanks so much for giving us your time. Let's start with the U.S. saying it sees this ship and it was hauling coal and it's believed that North Korea sidestepped sanctions, selling coal to fund its nuclear ballistic program. Does this action by the United States surprise you? Because certainly, North Korea has flouted sanctions before.
KENNETH CHOI, INTERNATIONAL EDITOR, CHOSUN ILBO: Well, it's supposed to be happening anyway because, you know, the -- this shows that the sanction is in place, the U.S. no matter unless North Korea denuclearize or commits fully on denuclearization process. U.S. will go forward with these U.N. sanctions. And I think, you know, most of the countries around the world will probably carry out the same thing.
And you just coincide with the latest North Korean missile firings but I think, you know, it sends a correct message to the Kim Jong-un in the North Korean that, you know, the only path that they can take is denuclearization process.
ALLEN: Right. And it seems interesting, doesn't it? That North Korea is so wants to make a deal it seems with the United States. However, tends to just flout the sanctions and that is the sticking point, isn't it? So for this whole matter of trying to reach some sort of agreement in these summits.
CHOI: Actually, I think North Korea is making a wrong calculation. Basically what they are doing right now is like whining, you know, and complaining and stuff like that, trying to make the negotiations to, you know, their favor. But, you know, again, it's not going to work because President Trump is pretty firm about it. And, you know, when a child whines and whines and whines, you know, parent sometimes they give rewards in order to stop these whinings.
But if you pass a certain point then, you know, there is only spanking left. And I think, you know, Kim Jong-un might face the same thing. So I think he will probably be very careful on how far he can whine and how much he can, you know, complain about it by firing these things. It remains to be seen but I hope, you know, he doesn't cross the red line.
ALLEN: Right. And as far as the whining goes, what do you believe has set him off this time? He has said that he would give the United States the end of the year to work out another summit but he's either frustrated or angry or both or something more?
CHOI: Well, I think it's all, both, and he's frustrated, yes. He thought that he could lift the -- some of the sanctions in Hanoi, it didn't work. And I think the U.N. sanction is really hurting North Korean economy. And by the end of the year, the food issue will probably be a big problem. And I think, you know, he probably needs to go cajole to those Pyongyang people, those people living in the capitol of North Korea.
And at the end of the year probably all those food sources will run out and it will really become detrimental to his power. And I think that's why he's really sort of, you know, urging or making all these moves in order to sort of pressure South Korea and the U.S.
ALLEN: Where does South Korea fit into this equation with what's going on the back and forth? And of course Japan has a stake in this and then there's China as well.
CHOI: Well, Korea is in a tough position. President Moon is trying very hard to accommodate what North Korea is demanding. But the thing is his hands are all tied because of the U.N. sanctions. And no matter what he does, you know, some of these South Korean companies will not carry out all these, you know, aid to North Korea and stuff like that because they will be under, you know, the U.S. secondary boycott in all these things.
Which will hurt their company. So, basically, you know, will understand that, you know, President Moon is trying very hard to get these negotiations going and try to, you know, accommodate North Korea's request and so on but it's very tough.
[02:35:01] And right now I think the only way for South Korea to be, you know, doing some -- I mean, engaging in all these things is that North Korea has to respond to what South Korea is request is as well. You know, it doesn't go one way, it has to be reciprocal and I hope North Korea gets the message.
ALLEN: Last question for you. We know that Kim Jong-un and Donald Trump, you know, act like that they have a relationship, act cordial with one another. But at the same time we got the United States and North Korea vastly different over this issue you. So can this relationship that they reportedly have do something to immediately rate what we see happening?
CHOI: Well, you know, even if you are at war, you know, the leaders need to talk and I think this is probably the case. You know, whether you're in good times or bad times you still need to talk. And I think President Trump is, you know, precisely doing that as well as Kim Jong-un. Neither of them wants to break off this negotiation because this is like sort of the negotiation -- whatever the relationship they have is sort of the last threat that they have between the two.
And I think, you know, this sort of -- I mean, stage will just continue until the end of the year. And still, I don't know who's going to blink first but hopefully North Korea comes out and agrees to this past denuclearization because I don't think President Trump is going to budge in at all. So -- well, that's my observation so far.
ALLEN: We appreciate your observations and your insights. Thank so much, Kenneth Choi for us. Thank you.
HUCKABEE: A CNN investigation into what could be biggest human rights violation in the world led us to Almaty, Kazakhstan. That's where Muslims say they -- or members of their families were placed in detention camps in neighboring China.
ALLEN: And some say they were tortured, China denies it. But even this predominantly Muslim country former prison or say they still fear for their lives. Our Matt Rivers has the story from Kazakhstan.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A tiny room in Almaty, Kazakhstan packed wall-to-wall with desperate people. They all have one thing in common. How many of these people will have relatives that are being held by China and unable to leave for at least 26 months? How about for a year? That's everybody.
This woman says she has not seen her daughter in a year and a half. This eight-year-old says she wants to tell her parents if she misses them. Everyone here has family members they say are being held in detention camps not in Kazakhstan but in a country that sits on its eastern border, China. Kazakhs who are Muslim have traveled back and forth across that border for decades. Some even live in China and are Chinese citizens.
So that's why so many Kazakhs been caught up in what critics say is China's ongoing crackdown on Islam. Over the past few years in the Western Chinese region of Xinjiang, the U.S. government says up to two million people, nearly all Muslim have been placed in detention camps. CNN got a rare look at some of these camps on a recent trip to Xinjiang. Inside detainees have said torture and political indoctrination is routine.
Critics say the camps are part of Beijing's attempt to eliminate Islam in China. But to speak to those who've been inside, you have to leave Xinjiang and Almaty, Kazakhstan is the best place to go. Just 200 miles from the Chinese border, Almaty is home to many ex-detainees like Kairat Samarhan.
KAIRAT SAMARHAN, CHINA EX-DETAINEE (through translator): Now I hate China so much.
RIVERS: Samarhan is a Kazakhstan citizen but grew up in Xinjiang. On a trip to China in 2017, he says he was detained and put in a camp where he was often forced to stand for 12 hours at a time, hands and feet shackled, chanting, long live Xi Jinping. For China's president, he says he even tried to commit suicide. After four months he was let out and allowed to return to Almaty. China's Foreign Affairs Ministry told us they are unaware of this case.
Samarhan says his own government in Kazakhstan wants him quiet.
SAMARHAN: The state isn't helping us, it's trying to silence us because we are so in discord between both countries. I'm living in fear.
RIVERS: The Chinese government denies allegations of political indoctrination and torture. They call the camps "vocational training centers" designed not to eliminate Islam but Islamic extremism. But we found a former camp employee who says that is a lie.
SAYRAGUL SAUYTBAY, EX-CAMP EMPLOYEE (through translator): It's not true at all because I saw it with my own eyes.
RIVERS: Sayragul Sauytbay says she taught the Chinese language to camp detainees in 2017.
[02:40:04] Forced to work there by Chinese authorities. She eventually fled and has since accused the government of torturing camp detainees, something China denies. She is now applying for political asylum in Kazakhstan but as a Chinese citizen she fears she could be deported.
SAUYTBAY: One day someone knocked on the door and that person told my son that China is going to your mother back soon. You will be orphans.
RIVERS: And yet Kazakhstan's government in charge of a predominantly Muslim country has not publicly condemned Beijing nor called for the camps to close. And some say that's because of money. So China actually built all of this highway that we're driving on right now. It's part of the billions and billions of dollars they've invested in Kazakhstan through their Built and Road Initiative.
China is one of Kazakhstan's largest trading partners and critics say Kazakhstan's government can't afford to criticize Beijing. We asked the Kazakhstan government if China had bought its silence on the issue of detention camps. They didn't reply. But no matter the answer, people like these back at the tiny charity in Almaty have no confidence that the Kazakh government will convince China to release their relatives from the camps. So, they turned to others.
So it's kind of heartbreaking because what these people just said is that they think that we, CNN, can get their relatives out of the camps. As if it's that simple. And now, even the small charity that helps them has become a target. Just hours after we shot this video, Serikzhan Bilash, the group's founder was arrested by Kazakh police and charged with inciting ethnic hatred. He remains in prison.
The tape on the newly locked office doors says "Closed by order of police." Matt Rivers, CNN, Almaty, Kazakhstan .
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOWELL: It is so good that Matt is putting focus and attention on what's happening there. Very disturbing isn't it? Coming up here prosecuting a president.
ALLEN: Yes. It's very disturbing, isn't it? Coming up here. Prosecuting a president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think the evidence is there to prosecute?
JAMES COMEY, FORMER DIRECTOR, FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: It sure looks like it's there with respect to at least a couple of those episodes of obstruction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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[02:45:02] ALLEN: Former FBI director James Comey, says it appears President Trump did obstruct justice and would be prosecuted if he were not president. There's the Justice Department guideline that states a sitting president cannot be indicted.
HOWELL: And Comey appeared on CNN in a Town Hall Thursday night with our colleague Anderson Cooper. Anderson raised the question, "Could Mr. Trump be prosecuted after he leaves office?"
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COMEY: I think that Justice Department have to take a serious look at that. Whether it's a wise thing to do to a former president, I don't know, that's a harder question, a much bigger question than the facts of the case.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: But do you think the evidence is there to prosecute?
COMEY: Sure looks like it's there with respect to, at least, a couple of those episodes of obstruction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ALLEN: Comey is a frequent critic of the president, and said he believes Mr. Trump is morally unfit to be president.
HOWELL: Comey also commented about one of those big unknowns surrounding President Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And do you think the Russians have leverage over President Trump? COMEY: I don't know the answer to that.
COOPER: Think it's possible?
COMEY: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ALLEN: Of course, President Trump falsely claims, the Mueller report completely exonerated him. And Thursday, he spoke for the first time about his son, Donald Trump Jr. being subpoenaed to appear again before the Senate Intelligence Committee. And we should point out that committee is led by Republicans.
HOWELL: President Trump has had a simple answer when Congress wants members of his administration to testify? That answer is, no. But Donald Trump Jr. was not part of the administration. So, this may be different. Our Manu Raju, explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The president's eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., now weighing whether to obey a subpoena from the Republican-led, Senate Intelligence Committee.
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): If Donald Trump Jr. defy this subpoena, he ought to be jailed.
RAJU: A source tells CNN that Trump Jr. may take the fifth or not even show up, despite being compelled to do so by GOP chairman Richard Burr and Democratic vice chairman Mark Warner.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I was very surprised to see my son. My son's a very good person. Works very hard, the last thing he needs is Washington, D.C. He could rather not ever be involved.
RAJU: The president today, defended his son.
TRUMP: My son testified for hours and hours. My son was totally exonerated by Mueller, who frankly does not like Donald Trump, me.
RAJU: Number of Senate Republicans also cited with Trump Jr., not their own GOP colleagues.
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): I think the rationale that keep the investigation of the Intelligence Committee open is wearing kind of thin.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): If I were his lawyer, I'd be reluctant to put him back in this circus.
RAJU: But Burr, refused to talk about the subpoena today.
Will you hold someone in contempt for defying the subpoena?
SEN. RICHARD BURR (R-NC): I don't take any questions.
RAJU: No? Because they seem to think your subpoena is voluntary. Is that -- is your subpoena is voluntary?
While he testified previously on Capitol Hill, Trump Jr. declined to be interviewed by the special counsel, who did not subpoena him or charge him with the crime. But the Mueller report raised questions about his past testimony. When he told the Senate Judiciary Committee that in 2016, he only informed Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort that they plan to meet with Russians ahead of their 2016 meeting about possible dirt on the Clinton campaign.
Yet, the Mueller report puts former deputy campaign chairman Rick Gates, Saying, Trump Jr. had announced at a meeting of top campaign officials and family members, he had a lead on negative information about the Clinton Foundation.
Plus, there are questions about the pursuit of the Trump Tower Moscow project ahead of the 2016 elections.
SEN. RON WYDEN (D-OR): There does seem to me to be troubling. Public evidence that Donald Trump Jr. has not been truthful about the family's business involvement in Russia.
RAJU: Democrats are bound to ask these same questions to Mueller if he appears before the House Judiciary Committee. Today, Trump said that decision is up to his attorney general who has previously testified he has no issue with Mueller appearing.
TRUMP: And I'm going to leave that up to our very great attorney general, and he has make a decision on that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RAJU: As some of the president's strongest defenders were actually individuals were running for re-election in 2020, they sided with the president's son not the Republican who is running the Senate Intelligence Committee. That includes a Republican from North Carolina, Thom Tillis, who is from the same state as Richard Burr, who said earlier on Thursday, "I personally believe the Democrats are just trying to keep this alive."
And when informed that, of course, the Republican is running this committee, Richard Burr, he said, "I think you have to speak to Senator Burr, I stand by my comment." Manu Raju, CNN, Capitol Hill.
HOWELL: Manu, thank you. Now, to South Africa where ballots are being counted in that country's national election with 76 percent of the vote now in the African National Congress is leading with 57 percent. The party has ruled since Nelson Mandela became president, 25years ago. But support for the ANC has been in the decline.
[02:50:13] ALLEN: And trailing behind is the democratic alliance with 22 percent of the vote, and then the Economic Freedom Fighters with 10 percent. Official results expected Saturday. HOWELL: So, that's where the numbers stand. Now, CNN's David McKenzie is live in Johannesburg. And David, so, at this point -- you know, with the ANC ahead, but losing ground to its rivals, what are some of the reasons behind voters considering those alternatives?
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, George, looking at the live results, yes, was more than three-quarters of the result in that it does look very much like the ANC is heading to a majority in this critical election. But you have seen them slip below that threshold -- that psychological threshold of 60 percent. Now, many parties around the world will be thrilled with that.
But it does show the erosion of the ANC's power base here in South Africa, issues of corruption, power blackouts, a sluggish economy, massive unemployment, has put a dent in their support. But not so big of a dent that the president will not have a big mandate going forward. George.
HOWELL: And David, what do you make of the significant increases for the more radical EFF party that wants to accelerate land reform and nationalize key institutions?
MCKENZIE: I think that's a very critical message or, at least, a point we should take from this election. The EFF which is led by the charismatic Julius Malema has taken a very strident approach on the issue of the economy, jobs, and the land question. And they have really appealed it seems to the poor urban vote here in South Africa.
And they've grown their support up to a threshold at this stage, then we see of more than 10 percent. That's significant.
Now, almost the mirror of that is that the Afrikaner, the based party, the white -- really appealing to White Afrikaans-speaking South Africans the Freedom Front Plus has seen their support grows substantially in this parliamentary system.
They have said that they need to push back against parties like the EFF. Their campaign slogan, Slaan Terug, which means, hit back. And that kind of more strident minority based support and minority in the South African sense support a base is growing.
You've seen the opposition Democratic Alliance really have a flat if and possibly a drop in their support. That will be deeply disappointed to them.
I think the takeaway here though is that people saw in President Cyril Ramaphosa, a chance potentially for the ANC to clean up its act. And the president as a person drew many voters not just the ANC as an organization. George?
HOWELL: David McKenzie, following the story live in Johannesburg. David, thank you.
ALLEN: Next here, President Trump is feeling the love. He says, he got another beautiful -- his word, letter from a world leader. We'll tell you who is sending such warm regards right after this. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ALLEN: Well, it's happened again. President Trump, says he got another beautiful letter, this one from China's president.
HOWELL: And it seems like world leaders keep sending him these letters. And the president loves talking about them. Our Jeanne Moos, says this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[02:55:07] JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We know, President Trump is big on getting letters. And no wonder, since this keeps happening.
TRUMP: I did get last night a very beautiful letter from President Xi. Well, he just wrote me a beautiful letter.
MOOS: "That crazy Trump," read one tweets, "stacking up love letters like nobody else can." This latest one from China's President Xi sparked memories. "Another beautiful letter to keep his alongside Kim's?" That would be Kim Jong-un.
TRUMP: He wrote me beautiful letters. And their great letters. We fell in love.
MOOS: And those a love affair has hit a rocky patch, the president could always re-read old letters from Kim.
TRUMP: He wrote me two of the most beautiful letters. It's a beautiful piece of art.
MOOS: An envelope this enormous could cause dehydration just from licking it. Though, someone Photoshopped it to make it even bigger. "Wow, that letter really makes Trump's hands look tiny."
And then, there was that other beauty from Japan's prime minister, nominating President Trump.
AMERICAN CROWD: Nobel! Nobel! Nobel!
MOOS: For the Nobel Prize.
TRUMP: It's the most beautiful five-letter -- five-page letter.
MOOS: The common wisdom may be that the pen is mightier than the sword. But President Trump, it's more beautiful.
With so much beauty in letters, no wonder the president doesn't e- mail.
TRUMP: That's a beautiful letter, we appreciate it.
MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN.
TRUMP: And then, we fell in love, OK? MOOS: New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOWELL: The man loves letters.
ALLEN: Wow, they see has pen pals.
HOWELL: All right, and still ahead, just days after becoming a new father, Prince Harry hit the road for one of his most beloved causes. The Duke of Sussex visited The Hague on Thursday and launched the countdown for the next Invictus Games.
A veteran himself, Prince Harry founded Olympic style competition for wounded military members from around the world.
ALLEN: And the new dad did not leave empty-handed. Princess Margriet of the Netherlands presented the Duke with that tiny -- teeny tiny one thing for the baby, Archie Harrison.
HOWELL: Nice.
ALLEN: And it bears the logo for Invictus Game's pretty cute gift. And royal fans hope the baby will make a visit to next year's competition.
HOWELL: Thank you so much for being with us, I'm George Howell.
ALLEN: I'm Natalie Allen. Please stay right there, we're coming right back with another hour at CNN NEWSROOM.
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