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Rudy Giuliani Decided Not To Make That Trip To Ukraine; O'Rourke Is Polling Worse Than Ever; Interview With Congressman Vicente Gonzalez (D-TX) on Trump Foreign Policy; Senator Cory Booker Gets Personal About Gun Control; States Drafting & Passing Restrictive Abortion Bills; Filmmakers Pledge to Boycott Georgia over Heartbeat Law; Former Facebook Founder Chris Hughes Calls on Government to Regulate Facebook; "CHANGING LIFE" with Dr. Sanjay Gupta Tonight at 9:00 P.M.. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired May 11, 2019 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:00:31] ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Alex Marquardt in New York. Thanks for joining me on this Saturday afternoon.

The President's personal lawyer is putting away his passport just hours after news hit that the travel to Ukraine to at least partly find information that could damage Joe Biden in the 2020 race.

Now, late last night Rudy Giuliani decided not to make that trip to Ukraine which had Democrats at a full boil. He told CNN quote "the meeting would have accomplished little and may be in the hands of those who might misrepresent it."

The reversal came just a few hours after President Trump told "Politico" that he planned to speak with Giuliani about the trip. It's not clear what the President may have known about the Ukraine plan before it was reported. But it's no secret that he has his sights already set on the current Democratic front-runner. The President also told "Politico" that he thought it would be appropriate for him to speak with the attorney general Bill Barr to investigator Biden and/or his son Hunter who has links to a Ukrainian natural gas company. He says he hasn't spoken to Barr yet though.

Now still, it does raise, of course, troubling questions, specifically what lengths is the President willing to go to in order to discredit his political rivals.

CNN's Sarah Westwood is with me. She comes to us from the White House.

Sarah, here we have the President who is possibly getting the justice department to look into his political competitors. Talking about getting foreign governments to collect dirt. It's like we are back in the 2016 race and he was asking the Russians to find Hillary Clinton's emails.

SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right, Alex. Certainly this focus on the alleged Biden controversy has drawn criticism particularly because until this morning, the President's personal attorney was looking to a foreign government to advance a narrative that could be damaging to the person the President considers his most likely Democratic rival at the moment.

That this all comes down to events that took place in 2016 when Joe Biden was then the vice president. He pushed for the ouster of the top prosecutor in Ukraine. That prosecutor around that time was looking into a Ukrainian energy company in which Hunter Biden, Joe Biden's son, had a financial interest. Biden, of course, has denied taking any steps that benefited his son at the time. But the President said he believes he would be within his right to ask the attorney general to investigate this whole thing.

Here's what Trump told "Politico." He said, certainly it would be an appropriate thing to speak to him about, but I have not done it as of yet. It could be a very big situation.

Now, we should note that Biden was not the only leader at the time to push for the removal of that Ukrainian prosecutor. There were a number of western leaders who at the time were trying to make that move happen. And there's no evidence that Biden's actions were based on his son's business activities, Alex.

MARQUARDT: Right. That's an important note.

Sarah, the President is also, you know, apparent - I mean, through his tweets, we get the sense that he is predicting that Biden is just going to roll over his Democratic rivals and eventually become the Democratic nominee who would face off against him. And Trump is saying in this article, with this interview with "Politico," that he sees parallels between Biden's early success in this Democratic field and then comparison so his own domination against Republicans in the 2016 campaign.

So does it sound like -- do you think the Trump team actually sees how through these words, through these actions, they could be playing into Biden's strategy here.

WESTWOOD: Well, Alex, if they see that, it's certainly not discouraging Trump from elevating Biden to the top of his Democratic primary field. That could be problematic because the conventional wisdom is that Joe Biden is the Democrat best positioned to defeat President Trump in the general election. That's of course, the Biden teams argument and President Trump is playing ride into that by drawing comparisons to the 2016 primary in which President Trump entered the race and shortly afterward became the frontrunner and held on to that lead through to the convention, in which he became the party's nominee. Trump now pointing to Biden's early lead in polls to say perhaps Biden could have the same trajectory, but of course that could set him up for a difficult race in 2020, Alex.

MARQUARDT: It is, however, early days.

Sarah Westwood, thanks very much. Now let's go back to the President saying that it would be appropriate

to talk to his attorney general about investigating Joe Biden. With us to weigh in on that federal and white collar defense attorney Caroline Polisi, and CNN legal analyst Shan Wu. He is a former federal prosecutor.

Caroline, first to you. Very simply, how appropriate is it for the President to ask the attorney general to investigate his political rivals?

[16:05:12] CAROLINE POLISI, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It's inappropriate, but not illegal. As so many things in this presidency are, the President is taking sort of iconoclast position here. He is doing a lot of things that people aren't quite sure how to react about including not releasing his tax returns with people are raising their eyebrows saying, you know, this isn't technically illegal but what can we do about it? What can we done - could be done in the future?

MARQUARDT: So, investigating political rivals is something that we have heard the President talk about for quite some time, getting back to his Presidential campaign in 2016. Let's take a quick listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If I win, I'm going to instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's just awfully good that someone with the temperament of Donald Trump is not in charge of the law in our country.

TRUMP: Because you would be in jail.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Secretary Clinton --.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: Iconic moment during that campaign.

Shan, we saw after that, once President Trump came into officer, he fumed that the attorney general Jeff Sessions did not investigation Hillary Clinton, he called him beleaguered. So in light of this news that he is considering talking to Barr, should we be surprised?

SHAN WU, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I don't think we should be surprised at all. I think one slightly differing view from Caroline I have is if the reason he is asking him to investigate is really no good faith basis but is really just to create the situation of a political opposition type strategy, then I think that is problematic. That could be legal. It could even be obstruction to the sense he is creating something false that way. So I think if I were Barr, I would be very, very careful.

POLISI: You don't disagree. MARQUARDT: And Barr was actually asked under oath whether the

President had ever subjected to him that he open an investigation into anyone. He was asked on Capitol Hill and he actually paused. Let's watch that moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has the President or anyone at the White House ever asked or suggested that you open an investigation of anyone? Yes or no, please, sir?

WILLIAM BARR. ATTORNEY GENERAL: The President or anybody else --.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It seems you would remember something like that and be able to tell us.

BARR: Yes. But I'm trying to grapple with the word "suggest." I mean, there have been discussions of matters out there that they have not asked me to open an investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: Pointed questioning there from former prosecutor now presidential candidate Kamala Harris.

Caroline, in light of what we are talking about now with Barr and the President and Biden, how does that moment look to you?

POLISI: This is why people hate lawyers, Alex, frankly. I mean, you know, it harkens back to what the definition of "is" is. I mean, he is personally meant what a suggest mean. I mean, suggest, I think anybody at this table knows exactly what that means. I think you saw there Barr being a very shrewd lawyer and that he was running of the clock on - yes, exactly.

So you know, clearly there is something more there, and who knows what it is, but I think that there's more to that story.

MARQUARDT: Shan, when you look at this on reversal by Giuliani not go to Ukraine after making his big pronouncement that I'm going to go over there and pick up some dirt on Biden, what do you maybe of this 180 in just a short amount of time?

WU: Well, I like to think it's because he heard my comments, but I kind of doubt that. I mean, it is sort of common sense he shouldn't do it.

MARQUARDT: Right.

WU: First of all, it raises all sorts of questions, again, about obstruction, because he said I'm meddling in an investigation.

MARQUARDT: Right.

WU: And then second of all, it raises issues, is he acting on behalf of a foreign power. There is a thorough (ph) issues. And then lastly, it really raises a cloud over what kind of conversations is he have been with the President? Is there a national security issue? Are they talking about classified issues? And that is just really such a poor idea that I'm glad he thought better of it.

MARQUARDT: And then turning to another member, who was once on Trump's legal team, but in the White House, White House counsel Don McGahn, we are now hearing that the President's attorney Emmitt Flood had reached out to McGahn, asking him to say publicly that he did not believe that the President had obstructed justice which is something that McGahn had said to the Mueller team. But now he is refusing to do that publicly. So how significant is that?

POLISI: Right. Well, so, I think there are a few lines to this story. I don't think the fact that McGahn refused to comment publicly on the fact that he did not believe that the President obstructed justice means that he in fact does believe that President obstructed justice. I think we have seen McGahn be pretty taciturn this entire investigation, not wanting to say things publicly. Also, the reasoning he gave was ostensibly as the reporting goes because Barr had already made that decision and what use would it be for McGahn to step in at this point. So, you know, I think we saw him get up to that line of whether or not the President obstructed based on the reporting of, you know, he was going to quit. He was going to quit over the fact that the President told him to fire Mueller. He said that is a bridge too far. That I will not do. I don't know what to make of it beyond the fact he didn't want to come out on the report publicly.

[16:10:15] MARQUARDT: Shan, do you agree?

WU: I think it's very reckless of them to ask him to do that. I mean, the White House counsel flood is perfectly capable of writing a rebuttal expressing opinions including what he things McGahn. But to ask McGahn to come out publicly now, a witness who has been interviewed, reports out there, it just seems really inappropriate. And again, it is right up to the line of interfering with something.

MARQUARDT: Right.

WU: And it is just doesn't seem right.

MARQUARDT: Shan Wu and Caroline Polisi, thanks so much.

WU: Good to see you.

MARQUARDT: All right. Coming up, Democratic White House hopeful Beto O'Rourke had a boost of momentum when he first jumped into the race, raising $6 million in the first 24 hours alone, but now less than two months later, O'Rourke is polling worse than ever. A new Monmouth University poll of New Hampshire voters has the former congressman tied for sixth place with just two percent of the vote.

CNN's Leyla Santiago is in Dover, New Hampshire where O'Rourke is campaigning today.

Leyla, do we know what is behind this dramatic fall in the polls>? LEYLA SANTIAGO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, I have actually asked

Beto O'Rourke a similar question, are you concerned about the loss in momentum, and he is quick to say it's too early to really give that much importance, not really a surprising response from him given that in the midterm election, the election that sort of made him the rising star among the Democratic Party. He didn't use polls. He has never given it that much importance.

All of that said, they are highlighting one poll in particular and that is a CNN poll from last week in which they asked voters putting up Democratic contenders against Trump who they would vote for, and Beto O'Rourke came out on top, sort of led the pack there.

But really all these polls, what they show is that it is a crowded field. It will become more and more challenging to differentiate yourself as a candidate among the Democrats with so many people in. So we asked the question, is he lowering expectations?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BETO O'ROURKE (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I mean, you really don't know what to think until you are in. This is absolutely unlike anything else that one can possibly do. And having said that, I think we knew there would be challenges along the way. And we knew there would be bright spots, and there would be tough days, but we also knew that we are in this for the long haul.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANTIAGO: For the long haul. And he is now wrapping up a three-day trip here in New Hampshire. This comes after Iowa, as well as Minnesota. He will be heading to New York.

And next, I got to tell you, though, in the House parties that he has been at here as well as the town halls, many of them have reached capacity. So he is still drawing a crowd, but we are not really seeing that reflected in the polls.

MARQUARDT: He has still a lot of interest.

Leyla Santiago there in Dover, New Hampshire. Thanks very much.

Now, one of Amazon's kid friendly devices is facing news scrutiny. The information lawmakers say that the echo dot is unlawfully collecting information from children.

Plus dog food, toilet paper and fish, just some of the items that will cost you more as long as there's no trade deal between the U.S. and China. We will talk to one lawmaker on what is at steak if this drags on.

You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:17:18] MARQUARDT: President Trump and his senior cabinet members have a message for Iran. It is just not quite the same message. We are hearing tough talk from secretary of state Mike Pompeo as well as national security advisor John Bolton, who have threatened unrelenting force to any Iranian publication. And the Pentagon is sending more warships as well as missile defense systems to the Persian Gulf. But the President's tone is a little bit softer on Iran. He wants to chat on the phone. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We have one of the most powerful ships in the world that is loaded up. And we don't have to do anything. What I would like to see with Iran, I would like to see them call me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: He wants them to call him.

I want to bring in Texas congressman Vicente Gonzalez, a Democrat who sits on the House foreign affairs committee.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining me this afternoon.

REP. VICENTE GONZALEZ (D), TEXAS: Thank you for having me.

MARQUARDT: After the U.S. pulled out of the landmark nuclear deal, the JCPOA last year, we did see this week Iran themselves partially pulling out. When you see these competing messages from the White House, does it look liked that Trump is trying to play good cop to Pompeo and Bolton as bad cop? Do you think on some level, the mixed messages are intentional?

I don't know. You know, this President can be quite unpredictable on foreign affairs issues, as you know it. We saw with the North Korea, but it could be. I do consider Mr. Pompeo and Mr. Bolton very serious diplomats that have America's interest in mind. And I think that they may have a concerted end that hopefully will be effective in dealing with Iran and holding a strong line on the concern that they bring to that region and to the world.

MARQUARDT: Congressman, as you know well, it's been a busy week on the foreign policy front, Iran just one of many issues that the White House is dealing with, as well as China. We saw the President tweeting this morning about his new tariffs on China amid this escalating trade war.

He wrote, such an easy way to avoid tariffs, make or produce your goods and product in the good old USA. It's very simple.

Congressman, is it that simple? What is the impact of these tariffs on U.S. (INAUDIBLE)?

GONZALEZ: Well, it's clearly not that simple because this is a 40- year relationship that we can't turn around with one tariff. But I do -- that's one of the few things that I think I can agree with the President from time to time is being tough on Iran and being tough on trade and make sure that they don't take advantage of us with our trade deals and make sure that they quit taking advantage of our intellectual property, and have been very difficult in the financial sector that was supposed to be integrated into China.

So I agree with him sometimes on some of the steps he takes, and even some of the rhetoric you hear against China. And I think most of the American people would agree on that issue as well.

[16:20:08] MARQUARDT: One of the tariffs from the Trump administration against China is a new one. That is 17.5 percent on tomatoes that are imported from Mexico. You wrote letters, urging secretary of commerce Wilbur Ross to reconsidering, did you hear anything back?

GONZALEZ: Yes. And I haven't heard back but obviously, Mexico is a very difference partner. And Mexico and Canada are good friends. They are good allies. We have had an agreement for the past 20- something years that's been very effective. That's about bash prosperity to all three countries. I think that we should be on an open playing field when it comes to Mexico and Canada.

MARQUARDT: While I have you, I want to hit another hotspot in the world. In Syria, we have seen a major escalation over there, the Assad regime launching a military offensive on the northern Idlib region, one of the few parts of the country that they don't control. It is home to about three million civilians. Many are fearing a massacre.

Congressman, you have urged President Trump and Mike Pompeo to stop those attacks from the Assad regime, but at the end of the day we have heard President Trump say repeatedly that he wants out of the Syria.

GONZALEZ: Yes, he has. And I don't know that that's the most intelligent solution. I'm quite shock that he would make those comments publicly. Because I do think that we should continue having a presence there, otherwise we leave it just open to China and Iran to control Syria and everything that happens in that region.

I think that our sphere of influence should continue to stay in that region. And we need to continue to help our friends and neighbors that are dealing with a refugee problem.

I was just in Lebanon and Jordan, they have millions of refugees that are in their country that have been impacted by the conflict in Syria. And you know, their economies are suffering, which brings instability on other trading partners there in the area, to Israel, to Turkey, to other places. So I think America needs to stay engaged in that region. And talking about pulling out of the Syria I think is absurd.

MARQUARDT: You know, one of the place that is Russia is engaged where we are seeing this rivalry between the U.S. and Russia play out is Syria. One of the reasons that President Assad is still in power is because he is so dependent on the Russians, and specifically on their airpower. And now, we see secretary of state Mike Pompeo meeting with President Putin next week. Does Putin have any pressure to back down on Syria? GONZALEZ: I hope he does. And I think that we should try to work

with him to come up with a Syrian solution. I think at this point, I don't see how we can resolved the conflict in Syria without have been the Russians set the table. And we created that place for ourselves over the years.

MARQUARDT: All right. Congressman Vicente Gonzalez, thanks very much.

GONZALEZ: Thank you.

MARQUARDT: In light the recent school shootings, Senator Cory Booker gets personal about gun control. Why he says people just giving thoughts and prayers to victims is quote "B.S."

You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:26:48] MARQUARDT: With the campus of the University of North Carolina at Charlotte still in mourning, right now thousands of students are walking across the stage for graduation. These are live pictures. You can hear the band there. There was just a moment of silence for those victims, moments ago.

Now this comes just 11 days after a gunman stormed a classroom and opened fire, killing two people, and injuring four others.

Shooting survivor Emily Haupt receives her degree in international studies this afternoon. Victims Riley Howl and Ellis Parlier will also receive degrees in memorium (ph). Security has been stepped up ahead of today's commencement ceremonies. Police say all guests must now go through metal detectors and more officers are present for the event.

He was set to graduate in just a few weeks to take the next big steps in his life. But instead, he died a hero. 18-year-old Kendrick Castillo was the only fatality in this week's school shooting in Colorado. He along with two other students lunged at the gunman to protect their classmates. Kendrick will be remembered as a robotics aficionado, lover of fishing. You can see him fishing there, as well as hunting and cars. His father says that his son's decision to spring into action is an example of his selfless character.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN CASTILLO, FATHER OF HERO STUDENT KILLED IN COLORADO SCHOOL SHOOTING: Let me just say this. When you are raising a child and you are all in, and you are loving them, you spend every moment, you are a loving mother like my wife, cooking food, and working a hard job to give them whatever they want and, you know, it's not just the material things, but the attention and creating their favorite dish, you know, it almost becomes natural that you don't even realize that you are creating such an incredible person as my son. I have been telling people today as I have met, you know, it's community, it's his faith and religion. He's been a catalyst in the schools he has been in where, you know, it's allowed us to be part of other people's families and the faculty in these schools that I just can't say that enough. I mean, there's no doubt in my mind that he leaped into action because of all those things. He knew that he had to protect people he loved, you know. And it didn't surprise me or my wife.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: Just days after a deadly school shooting in Colorado, senator and presidential candidate Cory Booker is now pushing a sweeping gun control plan that he says will stem the violence. At the heart of it is a plan to institute a national program that requires people to get a license to buy and carry a gun, much like people are required to have a license to drive a car.

Basically, a person would have to be fingerprinted, pass a university background check and complete a certified gun safety course. The license would then need to be renewed every five years.

Booker also wants to close gun purchase loopholes, reinstate the assault weapons ban and have the IRS review the NRA's tax-exempt status. It's not just ambitious, but in some ways a very risky plan.

[16:30:00] Red-state Democrats often cringe at gun control proposals, but Booker is betting it will help him stand out in a very crowded field.

CNN political commentator, David Axelrod, recently sat down with Booker for a brand-new episode of "THE AXE FILES," airing tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NY): So when I'm president of the United States, I'm taking the fight to this issue like folks have never seen before. Because we're better than this as a country. It's a uniquely American problem. No other country has this kind of carnage. More people in my lifetime have died of this nation due to gun violence than in all the wars and revolutionary wars now. We are not going to give thoughts and prayers which to me is (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I'm sorry to say that as a man of faith. But I was taught that faith without works is dead. We're going to bring a fight with everything that I have to solve this problem, because it's solvable, and we know it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: David Axelrod joins me now.

Good to have you with us, David.

(CROSSTALK)

MARQUARDT: Is this the issue, as you see this 2020 field coming together, that you think will set Booker apart from the other now 20 candidates?

DAVID ALEXROD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR & CNN HOST, "THE AXE FILES": He's certainly betting on it. But for him, it's a personal issue. Cory Booker lives in the inner city of Newark. This kind of carnage has been going on for the 20 years he's been living there. He fought against it as mayor. He 'very passionate about it. One thing is certain, when you are promoting an issue as your top issue, it better be one you feel deeply about, and he clearly feels deeply about this.

MARQUARDT: David, when you look at past presidential races, Democratic candidates have largely, to some extent avoided talking about gun control. They didn't see it as a winning issue. That said, at the same time, many politicians have arranged to be photographed on hunting trips. Remember John Kerry did that to prove that they know how to carry a shotgun. Then there was President Obama, the White House released this photograph of him skeet shooting at Camp David in response to some criticism. Are you seeing a shift from that?

AXELROD: This has been a third-rail issue in the past. President Clinton passed, as part of his crime bill in 2994, an assault weapons ban, and there were a lot of Democrats that felt it helped cost them the House in 1984. But since then, there has been a shift. You can see it in polling. But you can also see it among particular groups of voters, suburban voters, for example. These issues helped Democrats in those areas in 2018. And I think part of the reason, Alex, is we have seen this proliferation of mass shootings, seven of the large of the mass -- seven of the 10 largest mass shootings, most egregious mass shootings in history and in this country have happened in the last 10 years. This has brought that issue to the fore. So I think there's risk associated with it. There's a big urban/rural divide on this. There's a huge partisan divide on this issue. But within the Democratic primary race, there could be value to a candidate in championing that issue.

MARQUARDT: David Axelrod, thank you very much.

AXELROD: Thank you.

MARQUARDT: Be sure to tune in tonight for a brand-new episode of "THE AXE FILES" featuring Senator Cory booking. That's night at 7:00 p.m.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:37:12] MARQUARDT: So 9,000 barrels of a gas blending component have spilled into the Houston ship channel. That's after an oil tanker and a tugboat pushed two barges and slammed into each other on Friday. One barge capsized and the other significantly damaged. At this time no injuries have been reported.

The battle over abortion laws is intensifying across the country. Georgia just introduced a new strict heartbeat law, banning abortion after a doctor is ability to detect a fetal heartbeat in the womb. That can happen as early as six weeks into pregnancy. That new law may drive a major economic boon out of the state, the film industry.

Meanwhile, Alabama's state Senate has delayed a vote on what would become the most restrictive abortion law in the country.

More now from CNN's Natasha Chen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED ALABAMA SENATOR: All those in favor say aye.

UNIDENTIFIED ALABAMA SENATOR: No, no --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED ALABAMA SENATOR: Those opposed?

UNIDENTIFIED ALABAMA SENATOR: Hold! Hold!

UNIDENTIFIED ALABAMA SENATOR: The motion passes.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED ALABAMA SENATOR: The amendment is enabled.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED ALABAMA SENATOR: There was no motion. There was no motion.

CHEN (voice-over): This shouting match happened Thursday as Alabama Senators considered a bill to ban abortions at every stage of pregnancy, from conception on, and criminalize the procedure for doctors.

(CHANTING)

CHEN: The battle over abortion rights has been raging since the landmark case of Roe v. Wade in 1973, which legalized the procedure nationwide.

But now certain states are drafting restrictive bills in preparation for a lawsuit in the nation's highest court.

ERIC JOHNSTON, PRESIDENT, ALABAMA PRO-LIFE COALITION: This is the first time in 46 years that the makeup on the Supreme Court has changed where there's possibly enough conservatives on there who would believe Roe v. Wade was incorrectly decided.

CHEN: Outside of Alabama, a so-called heartbeat bill has been passed in several states, some already blocked in courts. Those laws inhibit abortions after a fetal heartbeat can be detected, about six weeks into a pregnancy, before many women know they're pregnant. And that's causing a problem for Georgia's nearly $10 billion film and TV industry.

ALYSSA MILANO, ACTRESS: Our industry is taking a stand. Women are taking a stand. And we are saying no more.

CHEN: David Simon, who created "The Wire," said his production company won't film in Georgia anymore. He is joined by CounterNarrative Films and Killer Films. CNN reached out to Marvel, which films "Avenger" movies in Georgia,

and AMC studios, which films "The Walking Dead" in the Peach State. Neither have responded yet.

Natasha Chen, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[16:39:32] MARQUARDT: Is Facebook too big? Is Mark Zuckerberg, its CEO, too powerful? A lot of people are saying yes to both of those questions. Now a man who helped create Facebook back in the day wants it broken up. You'll hear why, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARQUARDT: Now to one of the biggest stories this week. One of the creators of Facebook says the company is completely out of control and its CEO has way too much power. Mark Zuckerberg's old roommate at Harvard, Chris Hughes --shown on the left -- is joining a growing demand for Facebook to be broken up. He's calling it a monopoly and it scoops up other social media companies. And he's calling on his former partner, Zuckerberg, he's calling him so powerful that it's un- American.

Geoffrey Fowler covers all things tech for the "Washington Post."

Geoffrey, great to have you with me.

(CROSSTALK)

MARQUARDT: It's quite a turn for these old friends and business partners. Chris Hughes made a ton of money off the stock. They left Facebook 10 years ago. He has cashed out the stock. He has said nice things about Mark Zuckerberg in this 6,000-word "New York Times" op- ed, but he does make clear Zuckerberg is all about domination.

GEOFFREY FOWLER, TECHNOLOGY COLUMNIST, WASHINGTON POST: That's right. It must be nice to be Chris and make billions and billions of dollars and then be able to tell people what you really think, which is what he did. But he made a point that has a lot of people are talking, from Washington to everybody at home. And at the core of it for us as consumers is a fact that I think a lot of people don't realize. Facebook owns a lot of the different services we use. It's not just Facebook. If you use Instagram, Facebook owns that, too. If you use WhatsApp, Facebook owns that, too. If you use Messenger, that's also Facebook. The idea is we have fewer and fewer choices as consumers if we don't like the way Facebook is being run. Clearly, we've had problems in the last couple years.

[16:45:25] MARQUARDT: We actually spoke here at CNN with Chris Hughes yesterday. He explained why he thinks Facebook, at least in its current form, is untouchable. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS HUGHES, CO-FOUNDER, FACEBOOK: A competitive market is the way to hold Mark and Facebook accountable. Right now, they are not accountable. They're not accountable to a board. Mark controls 60 percent of the voting shares. They're not really accountable to government, yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: Geoffrey, to your point, Chris Hughes has also said if they stop buying up the competition, like WhatsApp, like Instagram, that that will make Facebook essentially start playing fair. Is it that easy?

FOWLER: Well, not necessarily. It's a complicated question. Again, as consumers, what are the pros to breaking up Facebook? What would change? Well, what might happen is new little guys might be able to come along with practices and business model we prefer as consumers. For example, somebody might come along and say, hey, what is there's a way to run a social network that doesn't take all of our data and make money from advertising it. What if we charge people for it? Right now, that can't happen, because Facebook is so big, it snaps people up or it copies their business models, or copies their function before they are able to come to market. And separate companies, maybe Instagram or WhatsApp would go different directions. Maybe WhatsApp would say let's charge everybody a dollar a use to use it and we could be done with some of the privacy problems that Facebook has brought.

MARQUARDT: The leaders, we should note, at Instagram and WhatsApp, have now since left the company.

Facebook responded, Geoffrey in an op-ed of its own, also in the "New York Times." It's from their global head of communications, Nick Clegg. He writes, quote, "Big in itself isn't bad. Success should not be penalized." He goes on saying, Facebook shouldn't be broken up, but it does need to be held to account."

He is saying there should be some sort of responsibility there. He denies, Geoffrey, that Facebook is a monopoly, admits regulation in some form is probably a good thing, and says that Facebook does have competitors. Do they actually have any competition?

FOWLER: Well, we can think about that as consumers. If you want to find a great database of all the people you have known in your life or want to track down an old friend, you don't really have another choice in America now. That's what real choice would look lie. But Facebook does have a point. Sometimes being big can be an advantage in dealing with some of the problems. For example, when you're really this big, you're able to spot coordinated foreign attacks, like Russia did during our election, and perhaps stop them, than if it was smaller companies. But Facebook can also stand up to governments, let's say China or other places, that don't share America's values for free speech. That would be hard to do if you're a smaller company. There are pros and cons to both sides of the argument.

MARQUARDT: We should not we have not heard what Mark Zuckerberg thinks of his former roommate's long op-ed. I'm guessing they won't be as close as they were once upon a time.

Geoffrey Fowler, thanks very much.

FOWLER: You bet.

MARQUARDT: Still to come, severe flooding in Mississippi is to blame for a train derailment. A look at the damage, next.

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[16:50:22] Dr. Sanjay Gupta is on a new mission in "CHANGING LIFE" where he journeys across the world to find the secrets for living better for the mind, body and soul. This week, he visits Italy to find out how a country, partly known for its vices, like smoking and drinking, is one of the healthiest in the world. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CROSSTALK)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRSEPONDENT; On the menu, the prized family recipe, minestrone soup.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You enjoy.

(CROSTALK)

GUPTA: So let me ask, all of you, what do you think the secret is to a long life?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGAUGE)

GUPTA: What do you think, Delia?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

GUPTA: Amori.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: Never make fake love. Words to live by.

Joining us now, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN correspondent and the host of "CHANGING LIFE."

Sanjay, first of all, a tough gig you've got.

GUPTA: I know. I feel really lucky, privileged to be able to do this.

MARQUARDT: We saw on the clip. We know that Italians have such a strong reputation, global reputation of loving to eat, all kinds of food, to drink wine. Many are still smoking.

GUPTA: Right.

MARQUARDT: Why is their secret. Why are they so healthy?

GUPTA: And they're not known for exercise. All those things working against them.

You know, I think when it comes to food, Alex, a lot of people would guess this, but it's really what you're eating. They certainly eat these different kinds of food. But you take the same exact meal, pasta, salad, whatever it might be in the United States, many other countries, and then that food in Italy, and it tends to be fresher, it tends to be more free of preservatives, it tends to have less corn syrup, for example, in it. A lot of times, it's the added ingredients in the food that increase the shelf life, the stability of the food, whatever it may be. If you're eating a lot of food still, but it's closer to the farm, it's less likely to be filled with these chemicals, you're going to get the benefits of longevity.

MARQUARDT: This is a country, as we know, so beholden to their traditions, so you see this traditional lifestyle that plays such a big role in their health. It is, to some extent, under threat from modern forces, these globalizing forces. What are Italians doing to get the younger generation to carry on, as they grow older, these meaningful and beneficial traditions.

[16:55:15] GUPTA: The interesting thing is that they are under the same sort of risk, I think, as any other developed country, but they have made these concerted efforts, for example, within schools.

School lunches are a big topic of discussion all the time in the United States. In Italy, in many of the schools, they have made this a big focus for how they are taking care of these kids. The types of food they are serving in schools, teaching them about the food, teaching them how to cook. Food it not sort of an add-on part of the day for many Italian school districts. It's a large part of how they grow into adults, learning about food. So that makes a difference when you start to think generationally.

There's something else, I'll tell you, I don't know how you feel about this, but many of the families, especially in places like Sardinia, live intergenerationally. So grandparents, parents, kids, all living together.

MARQUARDT: They stay with their mom.

GUPTA: A large part of these traditions are passed down as well.

MARQUARDT: And obviously these are things that our schools all across the country could certainly take to heart.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much. GUPTA: Thank you.

MARQUARDT: Be sure to tune in to "CHASING LIFE" with Dr. Sanjay Gupta. That airs tonight at 9:00 p.m., only on CNN.

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