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Man Who Reported Four-Year-Old's Disappearance Has Been Arrested; Pilot Indicted For Killing A Couple And Their Neighbor; Actress Lori Loughlin And 16 Other Parents Plead Not Guilty In Scam; Felicity Huffman To Plead Guilty Tomorrow In College Admissions Scam; Trump Denies He Wanted To Fire Special Counsel Robert Mueller; Biden Campaign Responds After Giuliani Cancels Trip To Ukraine; Trump Stonewalls Democrats In Investigation Standoff; Interview With Sybrina Fulton About Circle of Mothers Retreat. Aired 6-7a ET

Aired May 12, 2019 - 06:00   ET




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have shocking new developments in the disappearance of four-year-old Maleah Davis. An arrest has been made.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Derion Vence is the last known person to have been with missing four-year-old Maleah Davis. But police say since the beginning, his story has been full of holes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A pilot has been indicted for killing three people in 2015 and then burning their bodies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today, we can announce an indictment of Christian Richard Martin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you worry that you fully prosecuted in the murder case?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I have no worries about that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The battle over abortion laws is intensifying.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are taking a stand. Our industry is taking a stand.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I agree with them and glad they are taking a stand about it and hopefully taking that stand will make a difference.


CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. And happy Mother's Day to all you moms out there. We're glad to have you with us. I'm Christi Paul.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Martin Savidge filling in today for Victor Blackwell who is off. PAUL: Yes. We want to begin this morning with some new developments in the search for that missing little girl in the Houston area. The man who first reported the disappearance of four-year-old Maleah Davis has been arrested now.

SAVIDGE: Derion Vence was booked into the Harris County jail last night and charged with tampering with evidence. Investigators say they have found blood linked to the little girl in his apartment but they haven't said if they found a body.

Last Saturday, Vence told police that three men abducted him, Maleah and his one-year-old son before freeing him and the boy. Volunteers have spent the past eight days searching for Maleah but investigators say they never lost sight of the holes in Vence's story.

PAUL: Here's CNN's Nick Valencia.


NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Derion Vence is the last known person to have been with missing four-year-old Maleah Davis but police say since the beginning his story has been full of holes.

SGT. MARK HOLBROOK, HOUSTON POLICE: I realize there's a lot of blanks (INAUDIBLE) the (ph) public (ph) can fill in the blanks.

VALENCIA: Vence, Maleah's stepfather, told police he was on the way to the airport with Maleah and her one-year-old brother last Friday to pick up their mom. En route, he says he heard a noise coming from the car so he got out to check if he had a flat tire, it's then he told police he was ambushed by three Hispanic men in a blue pickup truck.

HOLBROOK: One of them makes a comment saying Maleah looks very nice, looks very sweet. The other male hits Derion in the head. Derion loses consciousness.

VALENCIA: Vence says he and the two young children were carjacked and abducted, he didn't fully regain consciousness he says until 6:00 p.m. the next day when he woke up on the side of the highway more than 40 miles from the airport, his one-year-old son was with him but four- year-old Maleah was nowhere to be found.

It took him five hours to go to the hospital for his injuries and report Maleah missing.

BRITTANY BOWENS, MOTHER: I just want to find Maleah. I just want to find Maleah.

VALENCIA: Maleah's mother Brittany Bowens initially defended Vence against those who doubted his story. In a long post on social media, she pushed back against his critics. But in the days that followed, and as the search for the missing girl intensified, there were more questions.

On Thursday, the car Vence was driving the night Maleah disappeared was spotted in a shopping center parking lot just a few miles away from where he said he regained consciousness.

Maleah's mother said the discovery added to her suspicions about Vence. His story she says just doesn't add up.

Do you still believe Derion? Do you believe his story?

BOWENS: No, I don't believe his story. Only because I've been out here every single day and doing what I have to do as a mother. I've been trying and he hasn't been by my side, not one time.

He hasn't called me. I haven't heard from him since Monday. I don't know what is going on.

And it's like if you're innocent, why can't you save yourself? Why aren't you out here defending yourself? I defended you in good faith.


PAUL: And thank you so much to Nick Valencia there.

Moving on to another story here. A pilot for an Americans airline subsidiary was arrested for a 2015 triple murder.

SAVIDGE: He was indicted for killing a Kentucky couple and their neighbor and burning two of the bodies. CNN national correspondent Natasha Chen has more details now.

And the first thing that comes to mind, Natasha, is why? Motive?

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. Well, Martin and Christi, we don't know a lot about that from the prosecutors right now. But we do know that one of our affiliates WSMV in Nashville, did an investigation about this in 2016.

They discovered in their reporting at the time that during Martin's divorce with his ex-wife, the ex-wife and victim Calvin Phillips found some disks labeled secret in their move and they turned those over to the FBI.


Now that resulted in a court-martial. And two weeks before that court-martial case was set to begin these murders happened. At the time WSMV also interviewed Martin and he said he wasn't worried about being prosecuted.

Now fast forward to this week here is what prosecutors had to say about the case.


ANDY BESHEAR, KENTUCKY ATTORNEY GENERAL: After two years of hard work today we can announce an indictment of Christian Richard Martin for three counts of murder, one count of arson, one count of attempted arson, burglary in the first-degree, and three counts of tampering with physical evidence. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CHEN: Now the pilot was arrested yesterday at the Louisville International Airport. American Airlines gave this statement saying, "All of us at American Airlines and PSA Airlines are deeply saddened to have learned about these allegations from 2015. Our team was made aware of the indictment this morning after his arrest at Louisville International Airport. We have an unwavering commitment to the safety and security of our customers and team members, and we will provide any investigative assistance possible to law enforcement throughout their investigation."

Christi and Martin, back to you.

SAVIDGE: All right. Natasha Chen, thanks very much for that.

PAUL: So I want to bring in criminal defense attorney Janet Johnson here to talk about this. Janet, first of all, talk to me about the time frame here. This happened back in 2015. Had this gone into a cold case scenario and then it was resurrected somehow?

JANET JOHNSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think that is what happened, Christi. The son of the victim actually went to the attorney general's office and said we think this is a cold case. We still think that there is somebody out there who committed this murder and we want you to look into it and that when the A.G.'s office took it over. That was in 2017.

Apparently they did find evidence that had not been uncovered by law enforcement before that. I actually have been involved in cold cases where if you escalated to the statewide law enforcement, they have access to all kind of tools that local law enforcement just don't have.

PAUL: OK. So I also read that the passengers were waiting for a flight and later learned that their pilot was arrested for murder. Apparently they thought that it was a DUI. Why would they arrest him right before a flight?

JOHNSON: You know, all of the people that were inconvenienced, you can imagine if you're a nervous flyer and you're thinking is our pilot drunk or is he? But it's a little scary. It's actually smart move because pilots, for the most part, are not armed when they're at the airport, very few pilots are actually allowed to carry guns.

And sometimes when you're apprehending someone for a very serious crime, for a murder, the law enforcement they are exposed to some danger and if they got him on the job at the airport, first of all they know he is going to be there, he has to be there, and they know he's probably not armed it makes it easier to apprehend him without anyone hurt or without any event. So it actually was a very smart thing that they did that.

PAUL: I want to pivot to the college admissions scandal and Lori Loughlin here because she has pleaded not guilty to this arraignment -- in an arraignment and she said it was because the plea deal was taken off the table. But we know now, Felicity Huffman has pleaded guilty.

Does Felicity Huffman and all of these other parents who have plead guilty, or who have pleaded guilty, does that complicate Loughlin's case?

JOHNSON: Monday is when the official plea is entered. And we'll Huffman -- I think she had great representation and basically told her the sooner you take responsibility and you accept responsibility and say that you're sorry, the better your sentence. And sure enough it looks like she may get house arrest at this point.

Lori Loughlin -- I don't know if her lawyers didn't advise her. I heard her say that she thought they were bluffing. But he U.S. attorney is going to keep digging and sure enough they added more charges.

So I think she is in a deeper position than Felicity Huffman, and if Felicity Huffman is going to get house arrest -- if Lori Loughlin later convicted I don't think she's going to get house arrest. It looks like she would get prison time.

So she has complicated it herself whether it was through bad advice I don't know.

PAUL: Is it too late for her to plead guilty and get some sort of -- have that seen as a mitigating factor of some sort?

JOHNSON: That's a great question. It's never too late and if she goes to trial and is convict, the sentence would be exponentially worse.

So the best advice if I was advises her would be to plead guilty sooner than later. Do it now and take responsibility and then you can argue, listen, I was confused, I'm just a mother, who wanted the best for my children and, you know, I deserve the same deal that Felicity Huffman got and here is why.

PAUL: There was an article in "The New York Times" recently that said this. Prosecutors say they have sent target letters to three students raising the prospect the students could face criminal charges.


Now we know the prosecutor in court had said, listen, some of these kids had no idea what was going on but there are some who were complicit. There were some who are in on this. If they find that to be the case, what do students potentially face?

JOHNSON: It's a P.R. nightmare, I think, for the government. Because, you know, the students are young, they, obviously, were influenced by their parents. The students, though, would if they were prosecuted, face prison time.

Sometimes target letters don't result in indictments and my hope would be that the target letter would, you know, just basically come in, they meet with the U.S. attorney, they might cooperate, they might know other people, other adults who were involved in this. If they got indicted, if they were prosecuted, I still don't think they would be facing prison time but they would be convicted felons and that is the one thing that all of these people are going to have on their records for the rest of their lives and that's not a small thing for an 18 or 19-year-old to start life as a felon.

PAUL: I can't get over the thought when you were talking about whether Lori Loughlin and maybe anybody else would have to actually go to trial for this. How do you defend this? Because there is evidence, there is phone evidence, you know, conversations in many of these cases and I believe in hers as well.

JOHNSON: There is. And I think what you would have to do is say -- while she is saying this, she didn't really understand the scheme that she was involved in. But that why federal trials don't happen very often because the evidence is almost insurmountable.

I would say the odds that she goes to trial are almost zero. Again, afterwards when you're convicted, it makes it very hard to argue that you deserve some sort of special consideration and that you should get less time.

PAUL: All right. Janet Johnson, always appreciate seeing you, getting your prospective. Thank you so much.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

SAVIDGE: "The Washington Post" says Trump and his allies are blocking more than 20 separate Democratic probes in an all-out war with Congress. Some experts are calling it the most expansive White House obstruction effort in decades. More on President Trump stonewalling next.

PAUL: Also as U.S.-China trade talks fall through the markets reacted without really serious losses. Why now maybe the perfect time to check your 401(k) to make sure you are ready for what is ahead. We will have that economic discussion.

SAVIDGE: And actress Alyssa Milano says there is one way to fight Georgia's new anti-abortion law. She's calling for a sex strike.



SAVIDGE: Among the barrage of tweets and retweets yesterday, President Trump said that he was not going to fire special counsel Robert Mueller.

PAUL: Yes. That completely contradicts what former White House lawyer Don McGahn told Mueller's team and comes just days after we learned that the White House asked McGahn to say the President Trump had not obstruction of justice.

SAVIDGE: CNN White House reporter Sarah Westwood is following all of the developments this morning. Good morning to you, Sarah. SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Good morning, Martin. Yes, President Trump still clearly fixated on the role of Don McGahn in the Mueller report and in media coverage since his tweet about his former White House counsel came on the heels of reports that the White House, through Trump lawyer Emmet Flood had asked McGahn to come out and publicly state that the president did not obstruct justice.

McGahn declined to do so, even though sources do tell CNN that McGahn privately told investigators that he didn't believe the President Trump's action constituted obstruction. Sources also tell CNN that President Trump was frustrated by the fact that McGahn didn't want come to out and in Trump's eyes clear him of obstruction in a way that the Mueller report explicitly did not.

So here is what Trump wrote on Twitter yesterday. "I was not going to fire Bob Mueller, and did not fire Bob Mueller. In fact, he was allowed to finish his report with unprecedented help from the Trump administration." He goes on to say, "Actually, lawyer Don McGahn had a much better chance of being fired than Mueller. Never a big fan."

Of course President Trump is on record previously, publicly, praising McGahn who served on his campaign and came into the White House, was the president's first White House counsel. Just recent context in the Mueller report, Mueller's investigators concluded that President Trump asked McGahn at one point to try to have Mueller removed from the special counsel's position because of what Trump saw as conflicts of interest.

McGahn declined to do that. Obviously Mueller did finish his report but President Trump is clearly still wanting to clear up this public perception that the president may have obstructed justice and his request to McGahn to come out and publicly state that just shows the measures that the White House is willing to take to betray Mueller's report as a total exoneration of Trump.

PAUL: All right. Sarah Westwood, appreciate the update. Thank you so much.

SAVIDGE: 2020 presidential candidate Joe Biden is responding to go Rudy Giuliani's cancelled Ukraine trip. Trump's personal lawyer had intended to go Ukraine to dig up dirt on his boss' top political opponent. But reverse saying he wanted to avoid facing potential enemies of the president.

Several 2020 Democrats have condemned Giuliani's plan including Senator Elizabeth Warren.


SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is highly unethical for the president's personal lawyer to go meet with officials from a foreign government to see if they can influence somehow the upcoming presidential election. We have had enough of that. And Rudy Giuliani should just back off.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SAVIDGE: The Biden campaign released a statement yesterday saying, "It's great to see all of these strong progressive voices stand up to this attempt at a blatantly political smear which in and of itself reflects the urgent need for change and to restore the soul of the country."

PAUL: President Trump and his allies are facing off with House Democrats over dozens of investigations into his actions as president. "The Washington Post" reporting this morning that President Trump and his allies are -- quote -- "are blocking more than 20 separate Democratic probes in an all-out war with Congress."

In what many experts are calling the most expansive White House obstruction effort in decades. Now according to "The Post" House Democrats say the president, "has failed to respond to or comply with at least 79 requests for documents or other information."

And as we've seen the Trump administration has used executive privilege to keep information from public view.


It has blocked aides from testifying, refused document requests and file lawsuits to keep companies from complying with subpoenas here.

So Siraj Hashmi, commentary writer and editor for the "Washington Examiner" with us now as well as Julian Zelizer, CNN political analyst and historian, and professor at Princeton University. Gentlemen, good morning. Thank you so much for being here.



PAUL: Absolutely. Seventy-nine requests. Julian, this, obviously, highlights two things. One, President Trump's aversion to transparency, even though he said he would be the most transparent president on the planet. It also highlights the Democrats' laser sharp focus on investigating him.

Who is more at risk with this headline, is it President Trump or the Democrats?

ZELIZER: Well, I think that the president is at risk and the issue is the use of executive power right now. That's the question on the table.

This is a very expansive flexing of presidential muscle. It's a blanket note to congressional investigations. And I think if you look at national approval ratings right now it's the president's use of power that's in the spotlight rather than the Democratic investigations and I think this is what constitutional crises look like.

PAUL: So Page Pate constitutional attorney was on with us yesterday, Siraj, and he was talking about how this delay is really the best strategy for the White House. He was advocating for it. He was just saying it's really their only option because they refused to provide records, then it goes to the court, then it gets -- you know, you refuse the subpoena, and then you get the filing of briefs and motions and appeals, and this could go on for years.

Would it be worth it for the Democrats to more narrowly focus their investigations, or is everything on the table out for game?

HASHMI: That's the thing here. I had thoughts about this going -- coming into the studio that, do Democrats really get the benefit, if they focus on, say, specifically Trump's tax returns as opposed to, say, focusing on the Mueller report? It seems a catchall here if they go after everything and get nothing, then they have at least, you know, a lot more fodder to say that President Trump and his administration are blocking every single congressional oversight effort that we are having as opposed to say, Trump's tax returns, he is blocking those versus the Mueller report.

The specific concerns that they have there. So they can't actually hone in on one particular thing. They can just say look at these number of attempts of obstructing Congress and focusing on that.

I think the real key point here is that if Democrats or I say the Trump administration drags this out further, I agree that it would actually help them more because Democrats would probably would grow tiresome of the Trump administration's efforts and prolonging this beyond the 2020 election is actually in the Trump administration's best effort or best interest.

PAUL: I got you. So, Julian, you've got an article in "The Washington Post" this morning that I want to read from. You said, "If House Democrats stand by as institutional norms crumble, at some level their party will go down in the history books alongside the Republicans as complicit in cementing the Trumpian era of presidential power."

You're basically saying they need to move towards impeachment or they are complicit for what happens. There are people though who want to see institutional norms crumble. What do you say to them?

ZELIZER: Well, I think -- look, we have been through a period where the criticism has been Republicans had power in Congress, they didn't respond when the president really abused and misused his presidential power. Now Democrats have power in the House.

And at a certain point, if they watch the president obstruct investigations, ignore Congress and don't do anything, don't start some kind of process to get a vote on what do people in both parties think about what the president is doing, this can become the new norm very easily. And if the president is re-elected in 2020 and nothing happens about what he is doing, this is what presidential power will be.

And others will use it this way. So I do think House Democrats have to think about the responsibilities of oversight and not simply gaming out every political possibility that comes from doing this or that.

PAUL: Siraj, he talks about the new normal. President Trump was elected by a lot of people to change the normal. Is there an opportunity here, Democrats, Republicans alike, to build or craft a new normal that will be better than what not only we are seeing maybe during President Trump, but what we saw prior to Donald Trump that people wanted to change in the first place?

HASHMI: Well, just pushing back on this idea of a new normal. I mean, it's not unlike President Trump is the first president to push back against congressional oversight.


President Obama at least pushed back against federal judge injunctions against, say, the immigration executive order that he wrote in 2014 --

PAUL: I think the volume is the question here, the volume of how many, how much.

HASHMI: Right, the volume obviously is in question. It's unheard of that any President Trump has or any president has blocked this many congressional oversight investigations. What is important here, though, is that -- look. The pendulum always swings furthest to the other side when, say, a president is trying to knock things around and Trump, obviously, is one of those people who, you know, even Republicans Senator Richard Burr who is the chairman of Senate Intelligence Committee, basically subpoenaed President Trump's own son Donald Trump Jr.

PAUL: Right.

HASHMI: And so it's not like it's only Democrats coming at this. It's Republicans as well. So, yes, there is a good chance that this new normal may exist for years to come but presidents have been constantly been pushing this boundary of executive power and trying to expand it and we have seen it over the last two decades probably more so than we have had in years past.

PAUL: All right. I'm so sorry, we have run out of time. Gentlemen, it's so good to talk to you. Siraj Hashmi, Julian Zelizer, take good care. Thank you.

HASHMI: Thank you.

ZELIZER: Thank you.

SAVIDGE: Hollywood speaking out against Georgia's new anti-abortion law. We will tell you what actress Alyssa Milano and others are doing to voice their concern. That will be next.



MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You're entering an America, where you have a president and an administration that are standing strong, for all the liberties we cherish. The freedom of speech, the freedom of religion, and we stand without apology for the sanctity of human life.


SAVIDGE: Vice President Mike Pence defending the Trump administration's stance on abortions. Georgia just banned abortions if a fetal heartbeat can be detected. The law is set to go in to effect January 1.

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: Now Hollywood's making its opinion known. Heads of three production companies are saying they're not going to film in this state anymore; major companies haven't weighed in yet, even though they're clearly listening.

And actress Alyssa Milano is calling for a sex strike to protest anti- abortion laws. Here's her tweet. She says, "Protect your vaginas, ladies. Men in positions of power are trying to legislate them." My question now is have I woken you up?

Now, CNN chief media correspondent Brian Stelter is with us now. So, Brian, I mean it gets your attention, got a sex strike going on out there. But talk to us more about the film industry boycott in Georgia, how significant that is.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes, before we get to the use of sexual power, let's talk about the economic power.

Because we have seen this in other situations as well where Hollywood production companies say they will take action mostly in red states when there is conservative legislation that the Hollywood stars, producers, et cetera really object to. That's what we're seeing in Georgia now that this fetal heartbeat bill has been passed.

Several production companies, my count right now is five production companies have said they will not do business in Georgia in the future as a result. Of course this bill is going to go through the court. We will see what the outcome is in the months ahead.

That's what the MPAA has said. That's the trade association that represents all of the Hollywood studios. They say we're going to monitor this. We're going to see what happens through the court.

Because the reality is the biggest production companies have not taken this position. But several leading producers like David Simon have. They say they will seek not to do business in Georgia in the future as a result.

SAVIDGE: Yes, this is an industry for Georgia by the way that raises about $12 billion annually.

STELTER: A lot of money, yes.

PAUL: Yes. SAVIDGE: Alyssa Milano has been as we just said very outspoken of this subject. And she pinned an open letter to Georgia's House Speaker earlier. What else she planning to do? I think I know.

STELTER: Yes, and she talked about this sex strike idea which did pick up a lot of attention on Twitter. However, she admitted in an interview with the AP, she hadn't thought through all the details for example how long it would last.

Here's a part of what she said though about this broader issue. She's trying to galvanize support for the pro-choice movement. Here's part of what she said.


ALYSSA MILANO, ACTRESS: We can't continue to allow these -- sorry, white men, middle aged men to dictate what we are able to do with our bodies. It is not fair. So we are taking a stand.

Our industry is taking a stand. Women are taking a stand and we're saying no more. No more of these hurtful policies. It's happening all over the country. It's unacceptable.


STELTER: She's been an outspoken progressive for quite a while. She actually played a key role in getting the Me Too movement to become a global phenomenon, again using Twitter in that case a couple of years ago.

Now as I mentioned, she's talking about this sex strike on Twitter, urging women to withhold sex as a way to make a statement about the importance of the woman's right to choose and be able to have control of their own bodies.

So, that is her use of Twitter to call attention to this subject. She's getting criticized, lampooned from both the left and the right for this. But she's also finding a lot of cheerleaders getting the debate going on Twitter about this subject.

PAUL: Yes, I was just going to ask you about the reaction. I want to talk to you about filmmakers J.J. Abrams and Jordan Peele. They voiced their opposition to this heartbeat bill. But what are they planning to do?

STELTER: This is another interesting example of a reaction. Jordan Peele and J.J. Abrams are about to start shooting an HBO series called Lovecraft Country in the state of Georgia. The show is all set up, ready to start filming.

Instead of pulling the show or something like that, they said they're going to donate all of their episodic fees, the money they'll make for making the show, they're going to donate it to two organizations in Georgia, one of them being the ACLU that is fighting against the fetal heartbeat bill. So that's an example of again using economic power, taking the fees from the show , putting it toward the protest, the efforts to get this bill overturned.

SAVIDGE: Yes, the potential outcome for the state of Georgia is huge and of course on a very controversial national image.


SAVIDGE: Thank you very much, Brian. Appreciate it.

STELTER: Thanks.

PAUL: Thanks, Brian.

SAVIDGE: Well, be sure to watch Brian on Reliable Sources. That'll be this morning at 11:00. He's got Chelsea Manning's first ever live T.V. interview. And if that's not enough, he's also speaking to Nick Clegg, Facebook's vice president for global affairs and communications.

He says breaking up Facebook isn't the answer. That'll be Reliable Sources, 11:00 A.M. eastern and of course only on CNN.

PAUL: I know you may not work on Wall Street, but of you have a 401K your retirement may depend on what happens there.

[06:35:00] Next, you stick with us, what to do to make sure you're ready fro what happens next in the U.S. China trade war. How you protect your money.


PAUL: 38 minutes past the hour right now, have some whiplash on Wall Street this week as the markets reacted to what we're watching this U.S. China trade battle with a final deal still out of reach here.

Both countries are raising tariffs on each other. We know that and possibly tomorrow the president will make another raise on $300 billion worth of goods.

SAVIDGE: And we sort of wanted to approach this conversation on what it would mean for your investments, whether it's you're a big time investor or whether it's like your 401K, your retirement plan or anyway that you might invest in the market or bonds.

So, we have brought along an expert here, financial planner Chris Burns joins us. Thanks very much for being with us.


SAVIDGE: OK, we were just -- before we even came to air, we were talking about 401Ks and how much people should change their plans. What would you suggest as we go forward in this kind of fluctuating time? BURNS: Yes, so the number one thing that I see with clients but it's also proven now statistically is that when the market is dropping, my kids taught me this term, FOMO, fear of missing out, right? So, if it'd going up, people jump in, if they've been out of the market.

But if it's going down, they run for the hills. And we have seen this time and time again. And so when people are worried about holy cow, there's a trade war with China, we know it's going to cause volatility in the market, they want to get out, get me to safety. But then what are they doing?

[06:40:00] Well, if the market's dipping, they're selling it as the market's loosing money. It's like selling all your stuff at a garage sale, right? You can never get that value back. But it doesn't mean you shouldn't do anything. It's just don't be reactive, that's the key.

PAUL: Yes.

BURNS: The markets are reactive, so think about this, most people think about the markets like they're a college professor, they're sitting and weighing, it's like logical, it's thinking about the options and then it's making a move.

The markets are like my four-year-old, 100 percent, OK? So if--

PAUL: That doesn't speak well, doesn't go well for a lot of us.

BURNS: Yes, but that's what it does. So literally Friday, President Trump tweets out that he's going to--

PAUL: Yes.

BURNS: -- raise the percentage of tariffs.


BURNS: Market's tank. Later in the day, Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin goes to a press conference, just says that talks are going OK, basically.

SAVIDGE: Yes, we saw a rebound--

BURNS: Markets swing back up, right? That's just reactivity. So any good parent knows and Happy Mother's Day by the way, right, any good parent knows your kids are reactive but you can't live on that reactive roller coaster, you have to kind of stand to the side.

So the key is you being proactive and saying do I have a 401K or any investment that you're in, am I certain about the way it's invested, amount of risk that I feel comfortable with so I don't sprint for the hills next time the market drops.

PAUL: So the losses were not as bad as expected.

BURNS: As of now. PAUL: Right.


PAUL: As of now, they were not as bad. At what point do you look at your 401K in all of this volatility -- well let me ask you this, is there anything you can do with your 401K now--


PAUL: -- to try to make sure that when the volatility hits, that you had a little bit of stability?


BURNS: Now is the time actually because it's almost like we got a test run, right? But in general, the last ten years, we're still in a bull market; we're massively up in the market. Even this year we're significantly up.

And so, what better time than now when you have a reminder of what volatility looks like because you see a little bit of a drop to go holy cow, I better check that. And here's how you do it.

When you go to your 401K, there's going to be a -- or any investment again, there's a chart on there that kind of shows you the level you have of equities or stocks versus fixed things like bonds, low risk stuff. And think about it like the speedometer in your car, OK?

So if you have 80, 90 percent in equities, you are speeding down the road. And you know that if the market tanks, you're going to hit the wall, it's going to be bad. You could have a really bad impact on your financial world.

So you need to know depending on your age and how close you are to retirement, can I handle that level of speed in my retirement. And now is a great time while the market is still up to tone that back if you need to because--

PAUL: At what age would you tone back? And I know we've got to go here, we only have a couple seconds--

BURNS: Yes. When you're within a few -- five to ten years of retirement, we call it the retirement red zone, that's when you can't afford that significant drop.


BURNS: I've had clients in their 60s come in with 96 percent in equities. Not a healthy place to be.


BURNS: So make sure that you're at a risk level that you can stick with long-term.

PAUL: All right.

SAVIDGE: Yes, thank you Chris.

PAUL: That's pretty good to know.

SAVIDGE: And we always point, the market is not the economy and vice versa, right?

BURNS: Yes, totally. And last year the economy in theory did fantastic last year by all the numbers. The market was down for the year and a lot of that goes to the reactivity again of fear in the market.

SAVIDGE: All right, great to have you here, Chris.

BURNS: Yes, thanks very much.

PAUL: Chris, thank you so much. Great information.

BURNS: Great to be with you both. Thank you.

PAUL: Absolutely.

SAVIDGE: Well, she is a mother in the public eye for a reason no mother would envy. Coming up, I'll have an interview with Sybrina Fulton. She's the mother of Trayvon Martin. We'll talk about the group she has created for Mother s who had lost a child to gun violence.


[06:45:00] SAVIDGE: The second Sunday in May is of course the side in the U.S. for children to celebrate their mothers. But for mothers who have lost their children to gun violence, all the flowers, cards, and celebrations are a fresh reminder of their loss.

That's where Sybrina Fulton comes in. Fulton is the mother of Trayvon Martin. She's created the Circle of Mothers. That's the retreat for these or those who are grieving as mothers. And I asked Fulton about why she started the group in the first place.


SYBRINA FULTON, TRAYVON MARTIN'S MOTHER: I kind of searched for some type of program, some type of event that would support me. I just felt like I was all alone and that's a terrible feeling when you are going through the loss of a child. So, I just really -- I guess it was just in my spirit that I wanted to have something for me.

So, maybe a few months later while I was sleeping in a dream, the Circle of Mothers came to me. It was a dream and I felt like I had already attended. And I got up in the middle of the night and I just got a notepad and a pen and I just started writing.

And when I woke up the next morning, I had written pages of pages of what I thought that was a dream but it almost seemed like I had already attended a Circle of Mothers. And so I got my team together really quickly and I told them about this dream. And I started reading from the pages as if I was already there.

So, I was kind of like telling them about an event that I had attended already--

SAVIDGE: You had already been to a meeting then. You had already been to a gather.

FULTON: It just felt like it was so real, it was so vivid, it was so clear. It was -- it came to me just precisely how I'm doing it now.

SAVIDGE: What is it like when you all get together because just as you said, we don't know but you all have gone through this horrific tragedy in your lives and I'm envisioning that it's grief, it's sadness, it's tears. What takes place?

FULTON: I mean, I know a lot of people associate PTSD with the military. But it's almost like you're suffering from PTSD. It's almost like a tragedy has happened in your life and you still have to live.

And you just have this thought reoccurring in your mind the hurt, the pain, the sadness, the disappointment, the depression, all of that reoccurs in your mind.

And so, I really wish somebody would do a research or some type of research about it to really find out what we really go through because it's hard to explain to people who have not gone through it.

SAVIDGE: Do you yourself still have bad days?

[06:45:00] FULTON: Oh, absolutely. I have a lot of bad days. They don't come that often; it's just sometimes it's a rainy day, sometimes it's a sunny day, it doesn't matter. Sometimes I wake up and when I wake up, if it's a bad day, I stay home because I know that I can't cope with what I'm going through that particular day.

But for me, I know that a better day is coming. So, I just accept my bad days, I accept my sad days. I still cry. Seven years out, and I'm still crying about what happened with my son. But it's OK because I know a better day is coming.

SAVIDGE: I have to ask, since you are so very outspoken, have you ever thought about running for political office?

FULTON: It's funny you ask that, I'm getting ready to make the final decision on if I'm going to run for office. I have looked at several different seats and several different areas. And I'm almost -- I'm about 95 percent to announcing a decision whether I run or not. But definitely I'm interested in running for something.

SAVIDGE: And what offices would they be?

FULTON: I'm not sure right now. I don't want to give that away right now. SAVIDGE: All right, all right. Well Sybrina, thank you very much for joining us. Sybrina Fulton, we wish you and all of those that are a part of your organization well and your road to healing.

FULTON: Thank you. And I just wish everybody Happy Mother's Day, all the moms, I wish you a happy Mother's Day and peace, love and light.


SAVIDGE: So there is a woman who was taken pain of loss and turned it in to empowerment. Hard to believe it's been seven years.

PAUL: I know. Obviously for her, it's been much longer than that, I'm sure. But talk about a woman of strength.


PAUL: We could all take a note for her.

SAVIDGE: Yes. No, and it was inspiring to see how she has taken this and how she is helping herself heal b helping other women heal as well--

PAUL: Other people. And that's what it's all about. There's a reliability there for those women that cannot be described.

SAVIDGE: And it was really good taking to her.

PAUL: OK and Happy Mother's Day to you as well, by the way. This morning, we do have sad news out of the entertainment world, award winning actress and star of Mod Squad, Peggy Lipton has passed away. We'll tell you more.


[06:55:00] PAUL: That's Peggy Lipton there, the star of Mod Squad and Twin Peaks. I'm sorry to tell you that she's passed away. She is best known for her role as an undercover officer in that series Mod Squad. It ran from 1968 to 1973. And that role earned her four golden globe nominations and one win for best T.V. actress in a drama.

She was also married to legendary music producer Quincy Jones. Now her daughter did put out a statement saying that she had been battling cancer. She was 72 years old. Certainly, thoughts are going out to her family there. Stay with us, your New Day continues in just a moment.